What's my type? Still not certain

[Shuriken]

Personal concepts
1. What is beauty? What is love?
Beauty is subjective and not static. It really depends on whether the individual identifies with popular opinion or if they have their own definitive characteristics for what they consider 'beautiful.' For me personally, I can't pinpoint an exact standard for what I think is beautiful. What I find beautiful is contextual..

Love is seeking/wanting to provide the best for someone else over your own interests and for that same attitude to be reciprocated.

2. What are your most important values?
I struggle to answer this but I will say loyalty and trust.

4. Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
I think they are necessary protective measures from outside threats that could harm a society. But it should be primarily in service to the people and country rather than a means to control said people and country. Power is equal to potency whether social, political or economical. A force that can influence whichever way it wills. My opinion on power is that it is needed for mobilisation.

Interests
5. What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?
Philosophy, politics, economics, theology, business, science, books, tv shows and the character dynamics, how people function and the logic behind their choices. They interest me because I like to decipher systems whether theoretical or people oriented. How things fit together to explain the way circumstance have manifested up until this point and what could possibly develop as a result, are what I like to consider and discuss with others.


6. Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?
Medicinal discoveries and ways to better my health interest me. How the body functions is also interesting. I don't pay much attention to my body. I would say I'm not in tune with it..

7. What do you think of daily chores?
They bore me, but are necessary to do. I'll admit to putting it off for as long as I'm able to. I'm thorough and efficient when I carry them out.

8. Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.
I tend to like psychological thrillers or unpredictable books/movies that catch you off guard like 'wtf?' The latter venture into very taboo territory. I find the shock factor humorous due to the absurdity. I can't think of many examples as of now, but Gone Girl probably serves as a sufficient reference.

9. What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?
I may cry because I feel like I had not reached a certain goal/vision I had in mind. So I think failure is often a culprit when this happens. Seeing young children suffer gets me in the feels because I can't stand shitty parents. It's unforgivable IMO.

My loved ones make me smile with good banter and laughter. Comedies, too.


10. Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
Amongst my family, anywhere really. So long as the atmosphere is light and there's laughter.

Evaluation & Behaviour
11. What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?
I think people would say I'm bad with deep relationships/friendships if they are not within my circle (which consists of family mostly, people I have known forever). If there is no common goal such as seeing them at work, Uni etc. then I don't really do well with relationship consistency. Or I don't see a need to initiate contact if the 'friendship' hasn't been established outside of the routine that maintained its existence. They'd also say I have a temper, I can be stubborn, narcissistic and competitive.

I don't like that I have a million ideas of what I could do, and rarely make the effort to see them to fruition.

12. What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
People have said that I'm independent, confident, ballsy, intellectual and funny/witty.

I like that I'm clever.

13. In what areas of your life would you like help?
Understanding what people need, staying focused

14. Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
I feel stuck in a rut when I can't possibly see a way out of an unwanted circumstance. My reaction is usually annoyance and then I get inspired by the set back. I have the attitude 'watch me kill this bitch' and power through.


People & Interactions
15. What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?
I dislike people who feel compelled to tell me I ought to be feeling this way about that, and that way about this when I am obviously indifferent. People who seemed annoyed by my emotional apathy and see the need to regulate it.

I dislike it when people whine and wallow in self pity without seeking a solution. It's fine to do the former, so long as the latter is being sought out.

I like people who are laid back, up to discuss anything. People who like to laugh but aren't necessarily obnoxious.


16. How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
I am highly sexual but romance doesn't interest me unless it's unique in some way, not something cliche and doesn't happen too often. I don't really care much for it, though and I'm not particularly sentimental unless it's acknowledging some holiday or anniversary. I would like a partner who is fun to be around, who doesn't take life too seriously.

17. If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
My main concern is that they grow up to be independent and equipped with the knowledge/ability to take care of themselves. I think if children grow up with the mentality of being responsible, I would worry less about them being reckless. Treating others kindly and fairly is also important because Id like them to be decent people. To ensure they acquire these attributes, I would encourage independence by dressing/feeding/cleaning up after themselves as soon as they were able to. Id discipline fairly when they are able to comprehend fully what it means and why. Id also try to exemplify affection as best I could.

18. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
My inward reaction would probably be 'lol no,' if I was completely certain of said belief. My outward reaction is not much different and I would push them to think more clearly by highlighting the discrepancies in their claim.


19. Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.
Humanity as a whole is fickle, I think, and not very consistent in agreement of overarching standards that measure right or wrong. If I had to think of a social problem that irks me, it would be political correctness.

20. How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
I don't necessarily choose my friends. My friendships happen spontaneously. I'm usually the comedic relief with deadpan sarcastic quips.

21. How do you behave around strangers?
It depends. I can be affable if I think my not very politically correct nature is accepted. Otherwise I will be uncharacteristically quiet.

[Sol]

make video

[Beautiful sky]

You have so many interests.

[glam]

Fi PoLR? maybe SLE or ILE

[Aylen]

I thought the responses were Se valuing and maybe Fi polr.

[Adam Strange]

You asked for opinions, so here is another.

Personal concepts
1. What is beauty? What is love?
Beauty is subjective and not static. It really depends on whether the individual identifies with popular opinion or if they have their own definitive characteristics for what they consider 'beautiful.' For me personally, I can't pinpoint an exact standard for what I think is beautiful. What I find beautiful is contextual..

Fe, not Fi

Love is seeking/wanting to provide the best for someone else over your own interests and for that same attitude to be reciprocated.

Victim

2. What are your most important values?
I struggle to answer this but I will say loyalty and trust.

Hmmmmm. More Victim.

4. Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
I think they are necessary protective measures from outside threats that could harm a society. But it should be primarily in service to the people and country rather than a means to control said people and country. Power is equal to potency whether social, political or economical. A force that can influence whichever way it wills. My opinion on power is that it is needed for mobilisation.

Diplomat, not self-motivated to initiate action personally.

Interests
5. What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?
Philosophy, politics, economics, theology, business, science, books, tv shows and the character dynamics, how people function and the logic behind their choices. They interest me because I like to decipher systems whether theoretical or people oriented. How things fit together to explain the way circumstance have manifested up until this point and what could possibly develop as a result, are what I like to consider and discuss with others.

Ti, not Te

6. Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?
Medicinal discoveries and ways to better my health interest me. How the body functions is also interesting. I don't pay much attention to my body. I would say I'm not in tune with it..

Se, not Si

7. What do you think of daily chores?
They bore me, but are necessary to do. I'll admit to putting it off for as long as I'm able to. I'm thorough and efficient when I carry them out.

Places low value on Se.

8. Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.
I tend to like psychological thrillers or unpredictable books/movies that catch you off guard like 'wtf?' The latter venture into very taboo territory. I find the shock factor humorous due to the absurdity. I can't think of many examples as of now, but Gone Girl probably serves as a sufficient reference.

Values Ni

9. What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?
I may cry because I feel like I had not reached a certain goal/vision I had in mind. So I think failure is often a culprit when this happens. Seeing young children suffer gets me in the feels because I can't stand shitty parents. It's unforgivable IMO.

My loved ones make me smile with good banter and laughter. Comedies, too.

More Fe, less Fi

10. Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
Amongst my family, anywhere really. So long as the atmosphere is light and there's laughter.

Fe

Evaluation & Behaviour
11. What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?
I think people would say I'm bad with deep relationships/friendships if they are not within my circle (which consists of family mostly, people I have known forever). If there is no common goal such as seeing them at work, Uni etc. then I don't really do well with relationship consistency. Or I don't see a need to initiate contact if the 'friendship' hasn't been established outside of the routine that maintained its existence. They'd also say I have a temper, I can be stubborn, narcissistic and competitive.

No Fi.

I don't like that I have a million ideas of what I could do, and rarely make the effort to see them to fruition.

Strong Ni, weak Se.

12. What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
People have said that I'm independent, confident, ballsy, intellectual and funny/witty.

I like that I'm clever.

13. In what areas of your life would you like help?
Understanding what people need, staying focused

Wants to understand. Ti HA.

14. Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
I feel stuck in a rut when I can't possibly see a way out of an unwanted circumstance. My reaction is usually annoyance and then I get inspired by the set back. I have the attitude 'watch me kill this bitch' and power through.

Very low Te.

People & Interactions
15. What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?
I dislike people who feel compelled to tell me I ought to be feeling this way about that, and that way about this when I am obviously indifferent. People who seemed annoyed by my emotional apathy and see the need to regulate it.

I dislike it when people whine and wallow in self pity without seeking a solution. It's fine to do the former, so long as the latter is being sought out.

I like people who are laid back, up to discuss anything. People who like to laugh but aren't necessarily obnoxious.


16. How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
I am highly sexual but romance doesn't interest me unless it's unique in some way, not something cliche and doesn't happen too often. I don't really care much for it, though and I'm not particularly sentimental unless it's acknowledging some holiday or anniversary. I would like a partner who is fun to be around, who doesn't take life too seriously.

I've seen this room and I've walked this floor.

17. If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
My main concern is that they grow up to be independent and equipped with the knowledge/ability to take care of themselves. I think if children grow up with the mentality of being responsible, I would worry less about them being reckless. Treating others kindly and fairly is also important because Id like them to be decent people. To ensure they acquire these attributes, I would encourage independence by dressing/feeding/cleaning up after themselves as soon as they were able to. Id discipline fairly when they are able to comprehend fully what it means and why. Id also try to exemplify affection as best I could.

18. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
My inward reaction would probably be 'lol no,' if I was completely certain of said belief. My outward reaction is not much different and I would push them to think more clearly by highlighting the discrepancies in their claim.


19. Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.
Humanity as a whole is fickle, I think, and not very consistent in agreement of overarching standards that measure right or wrong. If I had to think of a social problem that irks me, it would be political correctness.

Ni, would make a good parent.

20. How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
I don't necessarily choose my friends. My friendships happen spontaneously. I'm usually the comedic relief with deadpan sarcastic quips.

Fe, not Fi

21. How do you behave around strangers?
It depends. I can be affable if I think my not very politically correct nature is accepted. Otherwise I will be uncharacteristically quiet.

Introverted.


Another IEI.
Welcome, Shuriken.

[Shuriken]

I thought the responses were Se valuing and maybe Fi polr.

Fi PoLR? maybe SLE or ILE

Will look further into that. What lead you both to conclude that?

Another IEI.

Hm I doubt Im an IEI. I definitely don't have a 'victim' erotic attitude. If anything I identify the most with being an 'aggressor.'

[Shuriken]

I'm an enneagram 3 if that's an indication of anything

[Aylen]

Will look further into that. What lead you both to conclude that?

For me it was mostly your vibe. Your answers (very similar to an SLE I know) and avatar had a strange calming effect on me. Sorry I can't be more concrete at the moment. I am in a very introverted state lately.

[Adam Strange]

Hm I doubt Im an IEI. I definitely don't have a 'victim' erotic attitude. If anything I identify the most with being an 'aggressor.'

You might not be an IEI. I'm not very good at typing people, to be perfectly frank. That's why I prefaced my remarks with the statement that they are simply my opinion.

With respect to your identifying most with being the "Aggressor", I'm definitely an LIE, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who knows me, or who has been intimately involved with me, who would say that I'm not aggressive. I was in total disagreement with my being called a "victim" in the Erotic Attitudes article. Nevertheless, the description has enough elements of truth, and predicts a good deal of my behavior (at least some of the time), so that I now agree with the description, while still disliking the label.
So-called "Victims" are, I think, looking for people who will be loyal to them, and you stated that loyalty was very important to you. I don't think most Aggressors care that much about loyalty (especially their own), because there's always another Victim available, and it's actually all about them finding someone who will love them (and the more they find, the better), rather than them finding that one person whom they will love. But again, that's just my opinion.

Most IEI's are e4's, but e3's and e2's are also motivated by the same thing, just as e8's, e9's, and e1's are all anger-driven.

Also, your avatar looks IEI to me. Very unconventional look, very unique and arty, dark around the eyes to resemble a skull (strong Ni, weak Se), face half hidden so as not to be the one who is stand-up assertive, thin like most IEI's, not trying to be conventionally pretty but still being attractive, etc. Most of my arguments for your type were in my post, though.

[Aylen]

So-called "Victims" are, I think, looking for people who will be loyal to them, and you stated that loyalty was very important to you. I don't think most Aggressors care that much about loyalty (especially their own), because there's always another Victim available, and it's actually all about them finding someone who will love them, rather than them finding that one person whom they will love. But again, that's just my opinion.

Huh? The ones I know often demand loyalty in one way or another. "Victims" do not like to think of themselves as interchangeable or disposable. I thought they wanted to be the "prize" that was won after a great struggle or whatever. I don't know. The aggressors I know and have known do want loyalty.

It sounds like you are mixing up some of that dominant alpha pua stuff with aggressors. Ask one of the few SLE women here what they feel about loyalty.

[Shuriken]

You might not be an IEI. I'm not very good at typing people, to be perfectly frank. That's why I prefaced my remarks with the statement that they are simply my opinion.

With respect to your identifying most with being the "Aggressor", I'm definitely an LIE, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who knows me, or who has been intimately involved with me, who would say that I'm not aggressive. I was in total disagreement with my being called a "victim" in the Erotic Attitudes article. Nevertheless, the description has enough elements of truth, and predicts a good deal of my behavior (at least some of the time), so that I now agree with the description, while still disliking the label.
So-called "Victims" are, I think, looking for people who will be loyal to them, and you stated that loyalty was very important to you. I don't think most Aggressors care that much about loyalty (especially their own), because there's always another Victim available, and it's actually all about them finding someone who will love them, rather than them finding that one person whom they will love. But again, that's just my opinion.

Interesting. I was hard pressed thinking of 'values' so I just threw in what I considered general morals that anyone would consider (or so I thought lol). There wasn't much thought into that answer. I do value loyalty and devotion though. In relationships Im insecure about relational distances and I need to be reassured, though Id never admit that to outsiders. I'm unsure of how people feel about me unless actually stated. Yet professions of affection make me feel uncomfortable too because I don't really believe it. I relate to being an aggressor because when I have Romantic feelings toward someone, I think it most practical to tell them so as to know whether the feeling is reciprocated (edit: upon further thought, I don't care if it's reciprocated. I just want them to Know). There has never been a time I haven't been the pursuer. I like the chase. Being pursued doesn't interest me, it's actually a turn off.

I might not be an aggressor but nothing about victim rings true.

[Adam Strange]

Interesting. I was hard pressed thinking of 'values' so I just threw in what I considered general morals that anyone would consider (or so I thought lol). There wasn't much thought into that answer. I do value loyalty and devotion though. In relationships Im insecure about relational distances and I need to be reassured, though Id never admit that to outsiders. I'm unsure of how people feel about me unless actually stated. Yet professions of affection make me feel uncomfortable too because I don't really believe it. I relate to being an aggressor because when I have Romaric feelings toward someone, I think it most practical to tell them/initiate contact so as to know whether the feeling is reciprocated. There has never been a time I haven't been the pursuer. I like the chase. Being pursued doesn't interest me, it's actually a turn off.

I might not be an aggressor but nothing about victim rings true.

I feel exactly the same way. And yet I am LIE.

[Shuriken]

I feel exactly the same way. And yet I am LIE.

Hm had a reread and was wrong about 'nothing rings true.' Of all the points indicative of victim erotic attitude, there was one I identified with:

inclined to question whether or not the other person's interest will remain constant with time

[Adam Strange]

You can be a "Victim" and still kick someone's ass.

[Adam Strange]

Huh? The ones I know often demand loyalty in one way or another. "Victims" do not like to think of themselves as interchangeable or disposable. I thought they wanted to be the "prize" that was won after a great struggle or whatever. I don't know. The aggressors I know and have known do want loyalty.

Do aggressors want loyalty, or do they want to be loved, and it is important to them that you stick around to do that? If someone truly loves someone else, they want what is best for that person, and is willing to let them go if that will make them better. Think of how truly loving parents treat their children.
I think, if you told an aggressor that you loved them, they would be very, very pleased, and would immediately go out and try to get more people to love them, because now their self-esteem just got a boost, and being loved is what they care about. That has just been my experience with some of the guys I've hung with, and your mileage probably varies. Incidentally, I think the whole PUA thing is really screwed up. I've never approached anyone that way, because I'm not looking to be loved, I'm looking for someone worthwhile to love. That's a better Victim definition, in my opinion, but I could see how that might appear to someone who is writing those articles out of thin air and who is trying to make sense out of observed behavior, that I'm acting like I'm the "prize" that is only given to someone worthwhile. But that ain't the way it is. I'm not a prize to be won (that's laughable), I'm a force for good. I try to make the lives of the people I come into contact with better, but I'm selfish enough to want to (usually, but not always) contribute time and effort to people who can contribute back equally. Maybe that means someone who is "worthy", although LIE's can be pretty altruistic sometimes.

It sounds like you are mixing up some of that dominant alpha pua stuff with aggressors. Ask one of the few SLE women here what they feel about loyalty.

Well, good idea. I will. Niffer, are you listening? What do you think?

[Shuriken]

You can be a "Victim" and still kick someone's ass.

Does gender influence romantic styles? If so, how would a female 'victim' or 'infantile' behave?

[Adam Strange]

Does gender influence romantic styles? If so, how would a female 'victim' or 'infantile' behave?

Well, you can read the stuff written in the Erotic Attitudes article to see what they say about victim and infantile behavior. I know a male IEI, and he is definitely a Victim as described. He told me he is looking for a tough, older woman to support him (?!?), which is an attitude that I find alien. I'm not sure gender really influences things as much as the particular type does, and perhaps Instincts have an influence, but really, I haven't done enough informed testing to be sure.

I've read that the LIE-ESI duality consists of them frequently exchanging the Victim-Aggressor roles, and I could see that being true, although my experience here is also very limited. On the other hand, the SLE-IEI duality is supposed to be much more stable with respect to roles.

Personally, I think that much of the detailed, real-world behavior of Duals is glossed over in favor of having a general theory that supposedly ties everything up into a neat ball. This is a Ti thing which I see in the work of the LII's I work with. (How much these guys value theory over evidence is seen in the following story. Einstein created the theory of General Relativity straight out of his head. When the results of Eddington's expedition to measure the bending of starlight came back in favor of his theory, Einstein was asked what he would have thought if the experimental results had disproved his theory. He replied that God would have missed a great opportunity to build a Universe according to a great theory.) I think that individual erotic behavior tends toward that described by the Erotic Attitudes theory, but is not 100% determined by it.

This kind of leads into the question of, What is the real basis of Socionics?, but that is not something I want to get into right now.

[Shuriken]

I see. Id reply in depth but distracted right now with a whiny sick baby and a toddler who decided drowning her teddy bear in the toilet was a good idea.

[Shuriken]

I've attached some pics for VI. Maybe it'll give an idea. Tough finding pics I'm not pulling stupid faces.

[GuavaDrunk]

Out of curiosity, have you looked into Se-creative / ESI and LSI? I had an impression of ESI from our photos, fwiw, and Se-cre from your description. That would be introverted aggressor, which may be more up your alley than straight-up Victim.

Suggested reading: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1073540

whole exchange from onwards: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1073636

In general the last two pages of that thread are good.

[Shuriken]

I had a read through the links provided and it confirmed not a 'Victim.' I compared Gamma vs Beta and I am far more Beta than the other.

I'm tossing up between LSI or SLE . I don't think I'm as structured as an LSI.

I had a look through Fi PolR for SLE and it was a punch in the gut with accuracy:

'SLEs are under the impression that they might gain respect or admiration from others, but can never be truly loved by anyone. Sometimes, SLEs can become paranoid about their relationships with others; they often mistrust declarations of affection, and so can appear insecure.'

[Dudette88]

SLE Ti subtype and obvious Beta Probably sx/sp based on dp

Lmao @ IEI

[glam]

i also like SLE-Ti (or other Ti ego) as a typing, given the information so far.

@Shuriken, just out of curiosity, what do you type as in MBTI and enneagram?

[Adam Strange]

I stand corrected. Your pictures only have a trace of what I think of as IEI features. They are there faintly, but the overall impression I get is not that of an IEI. But the functions that you value still stand. So, an inverted IEI, or SLE seems very likely, I agree.

[Shuriken]

Shuriken, just out of curiosity, what do you type as in MBTI and enneagram?

Self assessed as ENTP but was professionally typed MBTI INTP. Usually test as a type 8w9 on enneagram but further research makes me think type 3 (up for review).

Cheers everyone for the help, much appreciated.

[Myst]

I had a read through the links provided and it confirmed not a 'Victim.' I compared Gamma vs Beta and I am far more Beta than the other.

What about Beta vs Alpha?

Self assessed as ENTP but was professionally typed MBTI INTP. Usually test as a type 8w9 on enneagram but further research makes me think type 3 (up for review).


Cheers everyone for the help, much appreciated.

ILE-Ti? Definitely EP & I can see Ti/Fe valuing.

[ouronis]

who were you professionally typed by? curious

[Shuriken]

What about Beta vs Alpha?





ILE-Ti? Definitely EP & I can see Ti/Fe valuing.

Someone suggested that on another forum. Can't say I don't identify with the Alpha quadra so need to self reflect abit more. Definitely not Delta or Gamma.

who were you professionally typed by? curious

An MBTI practitioner during a careers convention. Lady's name escapes me.

[tejing]

My impression from what you wrote was ILE, and though my VI is not that great, I think it fits there too. (it also fits with a INTP or ENTP mbti)

[Sol]

I've attached some pics for VI. Maybe it'll give an idea.

video is needed. photos give much less info