Contemporary US Politicians
Here are a few of my opinions. Feel free to debate them or post your own!
Donald Trump: ESTp-Se
Mike Huckabee: ESTj-Te
Ted Cruz: ENTj-Te
Rand Paul: INTp-Ni
Rick Santorum: ISTj-Se
Rand Paul: INTp-Te
John Kasich: ISTj-Ti
Lindsey Graham: INTp-Ni
Barack Obama: ENTj-Te
Hillary Clinton: INTp-Te
Bill Clinton: ESFp-Fi
Mitt Romney: ENTj-Te
George Bush: ESTp-Ti
John McCain: ESTp-Ti
Barack Obama: ENFP
Hillary Clinton: INFP
Bill Clinton: ENTJ
George Bush-jr: ENFJ
John McCain: ENFJ(?)
Vladimir Putin: INTP
Angela Merkel: ENFJ
Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud: INTP
Last edited by Sol; 08-09-2015 at 03:23 PM.
Al Gore: ENTj-Ni
Vladimir Putin: ISTj-Se
i think Carly Fiorina is LIE, with EIE as an alternative.
Last edited by glam; 08-09-2015 at 04:52 PM.
idk about ENFJ for George W. Bush... there was absolutely nothing rousing about him. In fact, i think his lack of Fe was, in part, contributory to his downfall.Originally Posted by Sol
Bill Clinton on the other hand.... he is very captivating -- Fe is how he got elected, how he maintained public support despite scandals, and how he is still fairly well liked. I dont see how you can type him as weak in and devaluing of Fe.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
And he has remarkable abilities with diplomacy.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
What about Bernie Sanders? Does anyone have an opinion?
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
Here's Bernie Sanders being interviewed by the probable ILE Bill Maher:
I'm not really sure of his type, but his emphasis on implementing ideas that would be perceived by some Americans as radical, and being a self-proclaimed socialist, makes me think some kind of intuitive rational type. Many of his political ideals are similar to mine, FWIW, just he's obviously more vocal as a politician. Clear emphasis on the "important questions of our time" in his campaign.
Though it's unlikely he'll win, I hope he keeps up his popularity. My first time to vote will be the fall of 2016.
Jeb Bush: LIE
Ben Carson: ESI or EII
Joe Biden: ESE?
i'm also changing my mind a bit on Carly Fiorina, i think that LSI of some ruthless variety may fit her, though i haven't completely discarded LIE. relevant quotes regarding her behavior as CEO of Hewlett-Packard:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/w...-talked-about/
"Autocratic style"
ParanoiaWhile Carly Fiorina was lauded as one of the most powerful women in business when she took the reins at Hewlett-Packard in 1999, she was never widely known as someone who opened doors for other women to succeed. Fiorina is remembered instead for her autocratic style and for presiding over a tumultuous period of boardroom clashes and cuts.
ControllingFiorina was an outsider, the firm’s only chief executive never to climb an internal rung, and the first woman to hold the title. Unlike her predecessors, former staffers claim, she avoided the cafeteria. She walked everywhere with body guards. She kept her office doors closed.
Profits > WorkersCashman, who worked at the company from 1983 to 2000, most recently in communications, said he decided to split after Fiorina arrived. He remembers spotting her at a retirement party for Lewis Platt, her predecessor. “She had a huge frown on her face,” said Cashman, who now works at an insurance company. “She wanted nothing to do with the H-P legacy. She had the dynamic of ‘I’m not going to let these white boys tell me how to run the company. It’s mine now.’” Platt, a widower who raised two daughters, put work-life balance in the company’s top three priorities, said Cashman, who said he helped run support programs for working parents. Fiorina, he feared, valued profits over people.
Primary concern of looking "strong"She doesn’t fondly remember Fiorina, though. The chief executive, she said, seemed impersonal, obsessed with productivity at the cost of worker wellbeing. “I was no fan of Carly,” Albert said. “She just took everyone to task.”
Ruthless layoffs of workersPat Pekary, the former managing director of Hewlett-Packard Professional Publishing, who worked at the company for 23 years, said authors would call her often to request an interview with Fiorina. The chief executive usually declined. “They wanted to know if Carly would give them a quote about women in engineering or how women could break through the glass ceiling,” Pekary said. “The feedback that came to me was always: Carly didn’t want to be associated with women’s rights. She wanted to be seen as a strong leader, man or woman.”
One day, she reported for a meeting in a conference room. There sat a telephone on an empty table. Pekary answered it. She remembers the voice on the other end of the line, the order: You have ten days to clear the building. The layoff matched a description of Fiorina that few have disputed: Frank, calculated, unapologetic — all business.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...395_story.html
Strength/weakness
“Carly’s focus is a strength, and it can be her biggest weakness sometimes,” said Deborah Bowker, her chief of staff and one of Fiorina’s closest friends. “We designed the [2010 Senate] campaign as a broad critique of [her opponent] Barbara Boxer — not as a way to defend Carly — and I think she became so entrenched in the critique she was giving that she missed some of the political realities of our campaign.”
Bernie Sanders: ESTj-Te
I watched a few videos of Hillary Clinton recently and am pretty convinced that ESTp-Ti is a good bet.
Perhaps you can make an argument for this over the most popular typing of LSI. She does remind me a touch of Kate Winslet in her portrayals in movies such as Divergent. Strong goal oriented logic and making the case as a pragmatic candidate rather than the one with the most supported views or best reasoning.
Bern is good ol' LII. He makes logical arguments, and he is the only one running a clean campaign because Se is stupid and dirty. Everyone should vote for him, by the way. We go way back.
LII
that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.
Could be. I don't know him well enough to say for sure but I can't rule LII out. It could be why I like him more than most politicians out there. Because he does seem more honest and his ideals most closely match my own.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
Bernie values Fe and Ti and has socialist leanings. I could see Alpha. LII.
Why not LSE-Te for Carly Fiorina? Most of these brief quotes could be descriptive of an "aristocratic" ST, but there are two of such types.
Donald Trump: SLE-Ti 8w7 sp/so
Rand Paul: EIE 1w9 so/sx
Ted Cruz: EII 6w7 so/sp
Ben Carson: SEI 9w1 so/sp
Carly Fiorina: LSI 1w2 so/sp
Jeb Bush: LSI 9w1 sp/so
John Kasich: ESE 1w9 sp/so
Mike Huckabee: ESE 6w5 sp/so
Marco Rubio: IEE 3w2 so/sp
Chris Christie: LSE 6w7 sp/so
the IEE actor Rubio adopting a Donald Trump like persona....he will try to do Trump better than Trump does Trump...
Marco Rubio did a whirlwind of Friday-morning interviews in which the Florida senator repeated the same line against Donald Trump.
Trump, Rubio stressed again and again — and again — is "a con artist."
Over at least three interviews, Rubio used the term more than a dozen times while describing Trump.
"If this pattern continues, the conservative movement and the Republican Party is going to be taken over by a con artist," Rubio said of Trump's momentum on ABC's "Good Morning America."
He later added of the conservative movement: "I'm going to fight now. Because there's no way ... I'm going to allow it to be taken over by a con artist. He says I'm a 'choker.' He's a con artist!”
http://www.businessinsider.com/marco...-debate-2016-2
“You guys wanna have a little fun today?” Rubio mischievously asked the crowd, holding up his cell phone.
“Last night he was actually pretty calm after I punched him around a little bit,” he said of Trump.
…
“So here’s the one tweet he put out, he put out a picture of me having makeup put on me at the debate,” Rubio said, referring to another Trump tweet from Friday.
“Which is amazing me to me, that the guy with the worst spray tan in America is attacking me for putting on makeup.”
The kicker: “Donald Trump likes to sue people; he should sue whoever did that to his face.”
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...t-about-debate
Seems that wayWhy not LSE-Te for Carly Fiorina? Most of these brief quotes could be descriptive of an "aristocratic" ST, but there are two of such types.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Do you people want to accept now, finally, that Trump is EIE?
I've always thought his SLE typing here was ridiculous, but hopefully by now it's more apparent.
I think most of your typings @poops magoops seem likely.
However, I agree with Hacim that Obama is Fi ego, likely ESI-Fi.
Ben Carson seems EII.
and Bernie Sanders LII.
Hillary Clinton- LSI>> ILI.
and...nope @ above post....I see zero Ni in Trump. My vote is for SLE for him.
I think Fiorina is likely an Ni ego, probably gamma NT and more likely rational.
Ben Carson is EII or LII. I could definitely see Fi-Ne, but i don't know for sure.
Hillary Clinton- LSI
Trump- SLE
Chris Christie- SLE or ESE
Bernie- probably is something like LII or LSI. Leaning LSI from what I've seen.
Rubio- idk? EIE?
Cruz- ESE or LSE, i think.
From a Canadian perspective: I am watching in increasing shock and awe that Trump is winning states. WTF. Seriously. Also Ben Carson is hilariously EII imo, he reminds me of a real life Toby from the Office (US). The way he speaks so monotone and boringly LOL.
Move to Canada, y'all. We got Justin Trudeau.
Trump's success is shockng a lot of us here, too, fwiw. I myself am appalled, as is seemingly everyone I talk w. Who the hell is voting for this lunatic?
Canada might start to look mighty tempting soon....
I read an article yesterday comparing Trudeau w Trump and illustrating ways they are opposites. Kind of interesting. No idea of Trudeau's type as I haven't thought much about it, but he seems like a really respectable leader from what I have read.
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra
I don't know if he is EIE but he was so soft and mushy in a recent speech that I was wondering who he was. Maybe he is a great actor. He blew kisses and told the crowd "I love you" so many times I was thrown off on whether he visually repulsed me or I felt bad for him.. At one point I thought his ideas were starting to sound good and I knew I was getting caught up in his speech. My family would disown me since they are all about Sanders. I would never tell them I had a moment with Trump. Sorry @Kim I had a moment of weakness.It won't happen again.
I don't think I have ever known an SLE who has that much persuasive power in his Fe. I think most of the SLE leaders (in the past) were more intimidating and led by fear and respect but times have changed. There is nothing scary about Trump. I am not saying all SLE are scary dudes since a lot are not and can even be goofy in non serious situations. Look at the SLE leaders posted over and over in Beta quadra none of them vibe like Trump to me. Trump is all lovey dovey mushy comparatively.
I don't think Ni is something that can always be spotted easily. I am not arguing for EIE but it is plausible. It could explain his ability to maintain his personal lifestyle and land on his feet no matter how many other people lose in his business dealings. Maybe he knew most of his failed business ventures were tax write offs from the start. He is fairly intelligent and probably knows exactly what he is doing. He generates great enthusiasm even in people who find him repulsive. He also has a knack for surrounding himself with the right people who can teach and advise him on things he finds of interest.
EIEs are naturally animate and passionate and are skilled at generating liveliness and excitement. They believe that people need to be emotionally involved in life, not distant or indifferent to the important things that are happening. EIEs often hold strong views about governance and social custom, though their beliefs stem from the interests of their close emotional relationships. EIEs like to involve people in interaction and create groups based around a shared experience. They tend to try to continually broaden these groups and engage people who seem to be on the sidelines. The individuals who the EIE is spending time with are far more important to the EIE than the event that is actually taking place. EIEs like to make their friends laugh, and employ an over-the-top style of humor. Often the joke is on the EIE, whether or not they know it.EIEs have a keen sense of the significance of the moment, life's flow of events, and the past and future evolution of things. The excitement they stimulate generally has to do with insensible things that can only be perceived over time, rather than with experiences that are captured in a specific moment. For example, they love to instill confidence in people by taking great detail to their problems and envisioning ways of handling them. EIEs are quite able to "paint pictures with words", so to speak. They enjoy having objects around them that provide a connection to the past, such as ancient trinkets or souvenirs, old-fashioned things, and items from another time and place. They like to be aware of and talk about their place in history, as the EIE's concept of humanity itself is largely perceived through the sensation of trends over time. As a result, they like to imagine scenarios of different ways a situation can unfold with their imagination; such actions give them a sense of security about what is to come.EIEs can be brash and harshly critical during fits of passion, and they appreciate people who are not fazed by this, but calmly stand their ground. If such people are at times angry and forceful with them, they take this as a sign that the person cares enough to be emotionally involved in their lives. In conversation, EIEs have a tendency to impose their opinions on others in a forceful way, especially when challenged by a point of view that conflicts with theirs. They dislike giving in to others when they strongly believe in their own way of doing things, and can act smug and arrogant towards people who openly criticize their viewpoints.EIEs generally refuse to conform to standards of what is acceptable and nice to say. Instead, they try to express themselves spontaneously — sometimes harshly, sometimes sweetly or kindly — not because that is what other people expect of them, but because that is what they actually feel at the moment.Common social roles
- The exalted prophet who is constantly telling people about what will happen or is happening unnoticebly and driving home how wonderful or how awful that is.
- The true servant of the arts who has lost himself or herself in artistic expression and is ever an artist/poet/actor/musician, no matter where he is or whom he is with.
- The player or yuppie who rises to the top in corporations where "walking the walk" and "talking the talk" is most prized, especially by optimizing the impression of his performance.
- The hypochondriac who is constantly ill with some strange and menacing illness that cannot be seen.
- The motivational speaker who uses his personal charisma to get people fired up about the things that really matter.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Where do you see the Ti in him??
Yes that's the thing, Trump has amazing oratory powers that come from Fe. SLEs don't have that kind of power in their speech. I think people are making a very one dimensional association of belligerent = SLEI don't think I have ever known an SLE who has that much persuasive power in his Fe. I think most of the SLE leaders (in the past) were more intimidating and led by fear and respect but times have changed. There is nothing scary about Trump. I am not saying all SLE are scary dudes since a lot are not and can even be goofy in non serious situations. Look at the SLE leaders posted over and over in Beta quadra none of them vibe like Trump to me. Trump is all lovey dovey mushy comparatively.
What the hell do I see? Trump isn't EIE. Power in speech isn't necessarily Fe. Jesus. I truly suspect half of this forum think EIE's look like any other type . Yay a crazy person, yay a good rhetoric, yay masses are following him...it must be EIE
This. He uses Se smoothly (well, debatably) enough to get what he wants, even as he steamrolls his opponents, often pointing out how "weak" they are (e.g. Jeb Bush, who seemed all but paralyzed by Trump's attacks and insults).
I know an SLE-Se irl who uses similar tactics, plus a LOT of charm to get what he wants, and he is amazingly smooth. Se-base doesn't mean bullish with force; most Se-dominants know how to use power, persuasion, and force as necessary to accomplish their goals, and Trump is doing a fine job of that.
Also, you can often see his Fe-HA in action. He frequently remarks on how people love him and everyone is his friend, etc, almost as if he needs to convince himself as well as whomever he is talking to.
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra
Well said, he's obviously SLE. Agreed on SLE's often being funny, charming and great orators. How can anyone type him intuitive is beyond my comprehension.
I don't get it either. Maybe bc of the temptation to compare him w Hi7ler? That's just about the only reason I can see, as imo he is clearly SLE.
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra
I think I was SLE when I was younger.
Probably just being sx first. I hardly recognize my younger self now.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Honestly from an objective perspective, he truly IS hilarious. I've ALWAYS been entertained by him and thought of him as a harmless character. It's more people's reactions that are freaking me out. Here's a great video, I love John Oliver!
ALSO in terms of Justin Trudeau.. I'm wondering if he's an IEE. Hmm. Okay Edited: Found a Trudeau thread, bumped it -- I didn't want to claim Beta NF because derp I don't wanna claim someone cool for my quadra because that would be too obvious.. although I do see the Fe.
The first video was pretty funny. Didn't watch the second.
I had to look this up. lol
http://www.snopes.com/donald-drumpf/
Last edited by Aylen; 03-02-2016 at 07:55 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I do think EIEs come in the widest possible range of all the types.What the hell do I see? Trump isn't EIE. Power in speech isn't necessarily Fe. Jesus. I truly suspect half of this forum think EIE's look like any other type . Yay a crazy person, yay a good rhetoric, yay masses are following him...it must be EIE
There are very refined EIEs who exemplify what humanitarians should be, and "short-fingered vulgarian" EIEs, hungry for power. And literally everything in between.
The only problem is that Donald Trump is not one of them.
and i don't know why this needs to be true or how it would be in the first place.
I moved some around. These are right.
Trump...SLE-Ti
Cruz...IEE-Fi
Christie....SEE-Se
Kasich...ESE-Fi
Rubio...IEE-Fi
Carson...LII-Ti
Jeb....ESE-Si
Hillary....LSE-Si
Sanders...LSI-Ti
Some of them play right to type:
Cruz and Rubio are the smooth, seasoned, veteran politicians.
Kasich and Bush are the two nice guys that only have their experience and record to sell the voters on, but not much else. The adults in the room.
Last edited by Kill4Me; 03-04-2016 at 04:35 PM.
He wins because he projects the aura of being against, as George Carlin so eloquently put it, "the big club". It's a big club, and you ain't in it! You and I are not in the big club. Granted, he's probably in the big club himself, but perhaps in a very shrewd move on his part he has perhaps put 2 and 2 together and concluded that it's better to defect and lead the torches and pitchforks crowd rather than be seen as giving a toast to Marie Antoinette. Pure and rabid self-interest may prevail on his part but, well, if I was in the .0001 percent and saw those pitchforks being sharpened and guillotines being rolled out...
The same goes for the Left and Bernie Sanders. What the fuck is Hillary thinking? If she runs and gets the nomination the republican who faces off against her (likely to be Trump) will, if they have any IQ left and a desire to win while imploding the establishment (also a strong Trump possibility), point out the E-Mail server and by extension our 2-tier justice system. She walks free while, if I did that shit, I'd be on death row yesterday! How is that fair? Oh, right, she's a liberal/Clinton while I'm just a Joe Sixpack conservative/libertarian (i.e. Satan Incarnate). Bernie doesn't have that baggage, yet somehow that man hating ultra bitch Hillary gets more votes than he does. Why? If she gets it all she'll have done is validate every far right neo-nazi fascist's viewpoint about liberals and how they're utterly retarded (and, because they're a bunch of vile eugenicists, think they belong in a furnace because of that). She'll lose in a general election and then, well, it depends on the nominee but, the people I just mentioned support someone and we all know who it is. They call him "glorious leader" by the way, just so everyone knows...
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