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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Default Life Philosophy

    Exciting news this week in the Culture Against Life: a lion dies.

    http://www.theblaze.com/contribution...ource=facebook
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    lions are headed for extinction if things don't change, so i'm glad people cared about a dead wild lion. i don't want them to disappear.

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    someone linked to The Blaze in seriousness, oh my!

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    I did not link the article to support Blaze, which I know nothing at all about. Also I know nothing of the author. I linked the article for the article itself. Also I do not agree 100% with all the authors thoughts and beliefs as expressed in the article. I am just completely in line with most of his main points here. What he wrote addressed very well some serious concerns I had this week.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  5. #5
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    i reacted negatively to most of his points. contrary to popular belief it's possible to care about what happen to people and about what happens to wildlife. but if we must stack one against the other:

    human global population: 7.3 billion and rising
    african lion population: 20,000 - 32,000 and falling

    not to mention, 'cecil the lion' wasn't killed due to conflict between local humans and lions. he was killed by some relatively wealthy asshole and/or idiot from out of the country. i mean, it is pretty upsetting to me. it bothers me when people are as lacking in empathy as walter palmer seems to be. i really don't know how else to characterize his actions - it also took him over a day to finally kill the lion, so obviously little consideration for the physical suffering he put the animal through. i don't know if this made him feel tough or something... but it was actually a pathetic act. lions may be faster and stronger, but naturally it was all set up so palmer wouldn't ever be in danger himself and there was nothing 'cecil' could do to defend himself. to me, this isn't that different from people murdering children who are also defenseless.

    why couldn't he just hunt legal game in the u.s.? why did he have to go and hunt a vulnerable species illegally in another country?

    eta: anyway, sorry, i got a little extreme in this.
    Last edited by inumbra; 08-02-2015 at 08:05 PM.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    I think my dentist is a sadist sometimes. I saw the look in his eyes when he pulled my wisdom teeth. I was drugged up and half conscious but I started to think he was enjoying his work a bit too much. He has a cold demeanor which was fine with me since I was there for a purpose and not for small talk. If I found out he was a hunter I probably would switch dentists, not just on principle, but because I would be wondering what he was thinking every time he had his hands in my mouth. I would not take a child to my dentist. The female dentist that works in his office is way more friendly and compassionate. I noticed most of her patients are the elderly and children. Dentistry is a perfect career for a sadist.

    Anyway, I feel for the lion and yeah I kind of feel for the dentist too since his whole life is falling apart due to his own actions. It made me feel bad for his family when I read his yelp reviews. His actions are effecting and affecting a lot of people. In this day and age whatever you do, while you are in the dark, is more likely to be brought into the light. There are no secrets in consciousness.

    This reminds me it is time for a cleaning.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  7. #7
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    There is just too much in the world to care about other than the fact that some unethical greedy dentist killed a nice lion. So I appreciate an article by someone pointing out all the things that really matter a whole lot more than that. Do other people block those things out? Because some of those things are recent news. And they are still on my mind. I can't understand why the lion story is so popular. It just says to me, something is very, very wrong with us.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    There is just too much in the world to care about other than the fact that some unethical greedy dentist killed a nice lion. So I appreciate an article by someone pointing out all the things that really matter a whole lot more than that. Do other people block those things out? Because some of those things are recent news. And they are still on my mind. I can't understand why the lion story is so popular. It just says to me, something is very, very wrong with us.
    I guess it is a difference in values. Some people value humans more than animals. Some people value animals more than humans. Some people value life itself and do not distinguish between human and animal. I would think there is something very wrong with us if stories like this were swept under the rug or didn't make us contemplate the value of ALL lifeforms and their contributions to maintaining our eco-system.

    How do humans fit into nature? We have not been around long enough but we are finding out more and more on where our place is. I think we are also vitally important since we have the ability for higher reasoning and compassion towards all creatures. It is all too human to want to dominate and control everything rather than learn to coexist in harmony.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    There is just too much in the world to care about other than the fact that some unethical greedy dentist killed a nice lion. So I appreciate an article by someone pointing out all the things that really matter a whole lot more than that. Do other people block those things out? Because some of those things are recent news. And they are still on my mind. I can't understand why the lion story is so popular. It just says to me, something is very, very wrong with us.
    the lion story is important to me because it's an example of the sorts of attitudes and practices on the part of individuals (and really, of human civilization) that are responsible for the continued deterioration and destruction of the natural world (as in all the lifeforms that live on this planet). to me, this is one of the things that really matters. i might say really that it matters the most.

    i don't really know if i can express easily how much the other species on earth mean to me without writing an essay... but i suppose i can try to sum it up as a feeling of interconnectedness with other lifeforms, such that it hurts knowing how many species are in decline (the earth is entering its 6th mass extinction event, and human activity is the cause). it's also that a lot of animals easily arouse my feelings because of similarities we share. i know lions for instance feel their social bonds (i would say it is love), experience fear and pain, display curiosity and problem-solving abilities, learn many of their skills, are social hunters, etc. i wouldn't necessarily call them "nice" as wild lions are formidable predators, but i think there's probably a sweetheart deep down in every wild animal.

    anyway, my ideal world would be full of diversity of life (as opposed to the world humankind is creating) where we have resolved our imbalance with nature. because things are going so badly, it lifts my spirits a bit when i see others who care about wildlife and the fate of the natural world. in the end, i think humankind will hurt itself if it keeps on this destructive path.

    i would also add that i think people need to learn to recognize that other creatures count too. we're not the only ones who can feel things deeply, or remember things, or think about things--we're not the only ones with consciousness. as the one species on earth that can affect and manipulate everything to its fancy, i think humanity has a responsibility to do so with consideration of other creatures and thought as to the potential impact of its actions. i think this is one of the challenges humanity faces. it hadn't been such a problem when our numbers were smaller and our civilizations less advanced and industrialized, but the human species has since become the earth's most troublesome invasive species.


    eta: the ironic thing about all of this is that the things people do are really largely for similar reasons that other animals do things. our failing is that we are animals. the more i think about this, the more i think human activity is governed by many key animal instincts, some of which are rather specific to tool-inclined species (e.g. primate and corvid species). there seem to be quite a lot of behaviors we can't seem to help, like hording resources (even when we have more than enough already and don't need more), constantly manipulating the environment (even when we've solved the survival problem as evidenced by our skyrocketing numbers), reproducing like mad (even though we're overpopulated), etc. the extreme efficiency of human culture (the ability to rapidly pass learned information to one another and from one generation to the next) enabled a lot of this... it's easier to use that when going with the grain of our instincts and tendencies... but now humanity has to work against that (e.g. manage its population, stop hoarding and making so many resources, stop transforming the entire environment into parking lots and piles of plastic water bottles, etc.). no other creature on earth as far as i know has to be self-regulating because every other creature is held in check by the environment in one way or another. it's a unique problem we face.

    i didn't mention our social hierarchies in the above and how humans crave power, prestige, and shiny treasures. in any case, i think that also ironically, studying other animals can help us to uncover all of the underlying instincts operating in ourselves, and once we can transmit that knowledge through culture, it will make it easier to hold ourselves in check.
    Last edited by inumbra; 08-02-2015 at 11:26 PM.

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I did not link the article to support Blaze, which I know nothing at all about. Also I know nothing of the author. I linked the article for the article itself. Also I do not agree 100% with all the authors thoughts and beliefs as expressed in the article. I am just completely in line with most of his main points here. What he wrote addressed very well some serious concerns I had this week.
    okay i understand, i just think it's important to check into a website's credibility before sharing links to it. you can often tell who does this and who doesn't, like in how i see some people (typically outraged conservatives) sharing Daily Currant articles on Facebook in seriousness (lol).

    anyway The Blaze is an ultraconservative, reactionary website that churns out inflammatory pieces meant to ignite anger in its readers, feed off their outrage, and tell them what they want to hear. so any articles coming from this website i would immediately treat with suspicion, as the writers will always have a hyper-partisan agenda that will be irritating to read if you are not part of their target readership. of course these people are entitled to their own opinions, i just don't particularly care to read them most of the time, and they're predictable anyway if you're familiar with how American conservatives think.

    i did read this piece though, to be able to respond to your post. i dislike the false binary the author's argument is predicated upon, where on one side you have the "evil" progressives who care about Cecil's death, and on the other those who are outraged when the supposed sanctity of life is violated (aborted babies, persecuted Christians, etc.) he presents this as a battle between good and evil (and guess who the "good" guys are?) but like most things, there are a lot of shades of grey here, and you can't neatly divide people this way. it's possible to care about Cecil the lion as well as human tragedy and death. defending Cecil doesn't mean something is wrong with humanity, i would say it's quite the opposite - people caring about the welfare of a species that isn't their own, nor crucial to their own survival, is actually something remarkable and inspiring.

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    You can live without either (people and animals). But it's not a life you want to live.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

    You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life.
    - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Hunting a lion and killing it for pleasure is pretty nihilistic.

    I would say people react very poorly to it because it's fundamentally a nihilistic act probably as a way to overcome some feeling of helplessness.

    People are sick of nihilism, they're probably sick of people being hurt as well.

    I find pro-life people to be quite nihilistic, they kill service providers and take away valuable life saving services from individuals because they believe that somehow the death of a embryo is "murder". They also believe birth control is murder too.. when it's the most effective solution to abortion. Nobody likes abortion, but people die doing illegal abortions and people get raped and shit happens.

    It's very nihilistic to support pro-life and also not support birth control because the result is inevitably more death, more abortions, more suffering.

    I'm sure pro-life people will reject this but they live in a fantasy world where people don't get pregnant when they're raped and embryos are humans.

    Also if you're pro-life, support fucking birth control assholes..

    We live in a world where the Chinese have probably the most progressive birth control policy mankind has ever seen. As brutal as it has been, they will never fully relinquish limiting people from breeding themselves into oblivion. And when this program of theirs is show to be successful in a few hundred years, everyone will copy them. And that's not nihilism.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    I read somewhere that dentists have one of the highest rates of suicide of all professions. I imagine it is tough to like yourself when the people you are trying to help all day long invariably see you as a huge source of pain.
    It could be that he killed that lion instead of killing himself. If so, it is a bad option to have available.

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    Kill4Me's Avatar
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    Fuck the lion. It's dead. Get over it.

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    LauriesCrusador's Avatar
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    No.

    "The spirit of resistance to government
    is so valuable on certain occasions,
    that I wish it to be always kept alive.
    It will often be exercised when wrong
    but better so than not to be exercised at all.
    I like a little rebellion now and then.
    It is like a storm in the atmosphere."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I read somewhere that dentists have one of the highest rates of suicide of all professions. I imagine it is tough to like yourself when the people you are trying to help all day long invariably see you as a huge source of pain.
    It could be that he killed that lion instead of killing himself. If so, it is a bad option to have available.
    Butchers have also historically had high suicide rates...perhaps this is related?
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