Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Pair Bonding

  1. #1
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,899
    Mentioned
    735 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default Pair Bonding

    This actually matches my personal experience.


    Enneagram Instinctual Subtype and Pair Bonding

    Interrelationship of Instinctual Drives

    A noteworthy point of interest with respect to the Enneagram Instinctual Subtypes is that the dominant instinctual drive (self-preserving, social or sexual) will shift to the other two subtypes as needed to ensure its influential role in this trialectic instinctual system. The way in which the dominant subtype employs the other two appears to be very specific and predictable. The dominant drive maintains the role of the commander in chief and the other two are channeled through its lens. Generally, this is very primal and often unconscious. This is especially apparent with respect to the human drive to seek a mate and pair bonding, but applies to all areas of life. If a relationship displays conflicting instinctual needs the dominant drive perceives it as a threat to security and acts accordingly. Confusion about the manner in which the instinctual drives manifest to create and maintain a sense of security is often the root of misunderstandings. Such disturbances in the instinctual drive are often the catalyst for seeking counsel or therapy.

    Self-preserving moves to Sexual For example, the self preserving subtype considers a mate as an essential need to maintain and insure security. Therefore, when in search of a mate the self-preserving subtype will feel anxiety and suspense until a mate is secured. In order to attract a mate, the self-preserving subtype will shift to their respective sexual instinctual drive to accommodate this fear. Outwardly the self-preserving subtype will behave like the sexual subtype, pay more attention to their desirability and will be sensual or flirtatious. At first, the self-preserving subtype will spend more time one on more with the possible mate. Once the mate is secured, the self-preserving subtype will return to basic routines that ideally would include the mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to issues of security and disrupt their need for inner calm.

    Social moves to Self-PreservingThe social subtype will think in terms more indicative of the self-preserving subtype when selecting a mate. This is very important to insure the desired security that rank and social status can provide. The social subtype seeks a mate with a shared social vision and similar values. This is necessary to fulfill the desire for a mate that will join them in their activities. Therefore, a secure social position is essential. Much attention is paid to the potential mate?s connections, rank and ability to provide financial security. This subtype enjoys bringing others together, feeling that ?the more the merrier?. They are often adept at creating the center stage and often use their home for social events, gatherings and causes. At first the social subtype will spend more time one on one with the potential mate. Once the mate is in place, the social subtype will return to outside interests, groups and/or activities, ideally, this is with their mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to their need for people, activities, causes and unwilling to share their interest in others.

    Sexual moves to Social The sexual subtype (one on one) will seek the greater world or social arena to find a desired mate. The sexual subtype is normally happy tucked away in a secluded setting with one significant other. However, when alone or in search of a mate, this subtype will behave much more like the social subtype. One must be with others to find ?the other?. Once the mate is selected, the social activity will be replaced by the dominant drive for time spent in union with the other one on one. At first the sexual subtype may spend time with the potential mate in the company of others. They become a pair even in groups. Then when the passion for deeper connection is ignited the sexual subtype will want to bond totally with their desired other. When the mate is determined, the sexual subtype will return to one on one style of relating. Ideally, this is intense time spent with the desired other or mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to their degree of connection and intimately share their deepest and innermost thoughts.

    ?1996 Katherine Chernick-Fauvre

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  2. #2
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    TIM
    Beta sx 3w4;7w8
    Posts
    3,401
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Welp, I definitely relate to sexual moving to social when alone/looking.

    I have also dated long term an sp/sx and so/sx and honestly, our major issues were probably Enneagram related more than Socionics!

    They both were very intense sx like me initially, then both returned to their respective first instincts and I got pretty frustrated with that over time. The sp/sx would just want to relax in his comfortable environment, do random chill things and essentially be a homebody in a sense.. whereas I eventually got very depressed about not relating to the outside world and him not joining me in more exciting activities. The so/sx would be TOO social for me, (lol) .. he placed sooo much importance on his friends & family, always wanted me to join in on his family events and such.. I more often wanted to just be with him and not deal with people I really didn't even like that much anyway..

    In both situations we broke up because of this, really.. wow, this is like sort of an epiphany for me. I didn't realize how much instinctual values are important for relationships.. The first was too "boring" for me.. (yikes) and I was too demanding, too needy of stimulation. The second was too concerned w/ popularity, other connections, and I got jealous/paranoid/insecure. Yep.

    In the end though, I think sp/sx was a better fit for me. I could handle someone being very introverted and such, more than I could handle having to "compete" for someone's attention and thinking they are giving it equally to everyone else


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
    Johari
    Nohari

  3. #3
    Fembot Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    IEI-1Ni
    Posts
    6,572
    Mentioned
    538 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've certainly seen myself and others "move" to those specific instincts when trying to look for a partner.

    For instance, a lot of SX first people, when online, are on social media and specific groups, or they join other groups in "real life", like at church etc. They go out to meet people.

    I've been wondering whether people have different stackings (temporarily) when looking for a mate. As in So/Sx would become Sp/So when looking for a partner; they would value things an Sp/So would value, when looking for a mate. I can say this is indeed what I have noticed with myself. I am putting a lot of stock into someone's (financial) security. Also, my So/Sx mother has married my Sp/So dad, and the "movement of the stacking" might partly explain why she found him attractive. Then, I know of an Sp/Sx girl who is with an Sx/So boyfriend. Those pairings correlate nicely with both the flow theory, and the pair bonding theory.

  4. #4
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    2,552
    Mentioned
    377 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    I've certainly seen myself and others "move" to those specific instincts when trying to look for a partner.

    I've been wondering whether people have different stackings (temporarily) when looking for a mate. As in So/Sx would become Sp/So when looking for a partner; they would value things an Sp/So would value, when looking for a mate. I can say this is indeed what I have noticed with myself. I am putting a lot of stock into someone's (financial) security.
    I have been seeing an IEI from France who owns a small restaurant. We are no longer seeing each other (Thanks, Supervision!), but I like her, and tried to fix her up with an SLE friend of mine (If I we can't be happy together, maybe she can be happy with someone else). He is handsome, thin, fit (from fencing), mature, very intelligent, ex-Navy, gave a lot of emotional support to his previous alcoholic and depressed girlfriend, tells funny stories, and is generally a really good guy. I showed her his picture, and she said, "Let me see! Good hands. What does he do?" I told her that he works at odd jobs, sometimes builds scenery for a theater group. She said, "Don't bring him around."

    The only thing I can imagine is that she thought he didn't make enough money. I should have said nothing and just "accidentally" introduced him to her in person, and let Duality and Stacking work it out in the moment.

    This business of looking for a partner is unnecessarily difficult. Evolution has designed us to mix the genes (to make up and break up), and not for happiness. In fact, since long term happiness with one person might prevent frequent gene mixing, evolution would select against it.

    Well, I tried.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-01-2015 at 07:21 PM.

  5. #5
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    2,552
    Mentioned
    377 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Aylen, this matches some experiences of mine, too. I'm Sx-first and newly looking, and I'm definitely moving to So and, to a lesser extent, Sp (the house is getting a full renovation). When I was looking to get married the first time, I also moved strongly toward So (went out more with friends, joined groups and clubs, etc.) and even bought a house, tho I'm Sp-last. I seem to presently be going through this cycle again. Also, another LIE I know (Sp-first, probably So second) is having problems with his relationship with his wife, and he is increasingly doing Sx things. At least in these two cases, it looks like the author knows what she's talking about.

    Where can I get a copy of this Katherine Chernick-Fauvre book and find out more about pair bonding?
    Also, is there supported evidence for which stackings are best for long term relationships?

  6. #6
    Fembot Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    IEI-1Ni
    Posts
    6,572
    Mentioned
    538 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post

    Where can I get a copy of this Katherine Chernick-Fauvre book and find out more about pair bonding?
    Don't know whether they truly go into pair bonding to a sufficient extent in any of their products. Well, it says for the Instincts Lecture: "Packed with insights, this concentrated master class on the Instincts reveals how our lives are run by our dominant Instinctual Subtype and it’s influence on relationship compatibility."

    And you could just ask her.

  7. #7
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Fair bonding?

  8. #8
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,388
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Maritsa what's your instinct stacking? just curious (:

  9. #9
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,470
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm still a bit skeptical about instinctual stackings, but if there's anything to it, the OP further confirms to me that i'm not sp. I can resonate with the the so and the sx bits, though.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  10. #10
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Of these three, for me, sp moving to sx, no question.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  11. #11
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    @Maritsa what's your instinct stacking? just curious (:
    I don't even know what that is

  12. #12
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    @Maritsa what's your instinct stacking? just curious (:
    I secure a mate because it's nice to have a compatible sexual partner and because it's nice to hang with someone you get along with. I don't go into a social scene to secure a mate...maybe if you call online dating as one but I doubt that. I don't fit into any of th ones listed. Conglicts in my dual pair are due to selfish self centered motivation to do things without your SO

  13. #13
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think it's interesting the differences after a mate is found.

    Like, I can see how someone wanting their mate to pay attention to their activities, causes, etc, or want the mate to share deep and intimate thoughts, would be upset if their mate just returns to daily routines.

    And I can see how a person who needs inner calm and a sense of security while in a relationship would be agitated by their partner pushing them to join in family/friend gatherings, try new foods, and/or participate in their partner's causes or interests.

    Even R & I's "dating" was pretty much as homebody's. It was basically just hanging out together at my house. I wonder if that's why the relationship moved so quickly into pretty much living together from the get-go. It was like open the door for the first date to start and then BOOM, he belonged in my home.

    SP: "Once the mate is secured, the self-preserving subtype will return to basic routines that ideally would include the mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to issues of security and disrupt their need for inner calm."

    SO: "Once the mate is in place, the social subtype will return to outside interests, groups and/or activities, ideally, this is with their mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to their need for people, activities, causes and unwilling to share their interest in others."

    SX: "When the mate is determined, the sexual subtype will return to one on one style of relating. Ideally, this is intense time spent with the desired other or mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to their degree of connection and intimately share their deepest and innermost thoughts."
    Does this mean I've gotta switch my sig line back to sp/sx?
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  14. #14
    Nymeria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    TIM
    ILI 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    347
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I have been seeing an IEI from France who owns a small restaurant.
    I just want to suggest, that maybe some of the women you were seeing were Enneagram 1s.
    Last edited by Nymeria; 08-08-2015 at 12:27 AM.

  15. #15
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,899
    Mentioned
    735 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Sexual moves to Social

    Then when the passion for deeper connection is ignited the sexual subtype will want to bond totally with their desired other. When the mate is determined, the sexual subtype will return to one on one style of relating. Ideally, this is intense time spent with the desired other or mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to their degree of connection and intimately share their deepest and innermost thoughts.



    One of the problems of sx/sp/sx relationships I have run into, in the past, is that when they start focusing more on sp stuff, that at first, it feels like they are being cold. Without communication I take that as a sign they are losing interest even when they are not. I have had to make a lot of adjustments in these relationships because they usually didn't. Overall being in relationships with sp/sx is pretty stable once everyone's need are made clear. Another problem was that I used to not be sure what my needs really were so I could not tell them. I think without communication things breakdown quickly.




    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  16. #16
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,899
    Mentioned
    735 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Don't know whether they truly go into pair bonding to a sufficient extent in any of their products. Well, it says for the Instincts Lecture: "Packed with insights, this concentrated master class on the Instincts reveals how our lives are run by our dominant Instinctual Subtype and it’s influence on relationship compatibility."

    And you could just ask her.
    I have been thinking about how this works. I read "sx" goes to "so" but does that mean an sx/sp, for example, might start acting more like an sx/so or so/sx? I have the book but it really does not go into it. I have googled more information on pair bonding, most of which has nothing to do with enneagram but I wonder if that is where the general idea comes from. I have run across information about the instincts that is not related to enneagram too.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •