Personage had women (and, at least, one child), but did not marry them. Maybe in that future marriage was lesser common than today. In Russian sci-fi of 1960s it seems to be such at Efremov and Strugatsky ("noon" series). As Star Trek future has no money, they have kind of communism, so probably relation to marriages has the similarity too.but rather because he never met a woman he liked better than himself
What I observed is that SEE-Fi tends to be more bashful and slower in their approach (see Elvis who takes his time to woo, this would replay in other stages of the relationship). But SEE-Se constantly anticipates immediate push/pull dynamics, needing both the lure and the rejection. The former does not really want to be confused but the latter is all about reacting to something that puzzles them.
In other words:
>>>Fi subtype style: to look for certainty and no-nonsense behavior, that's why they become so open - it's a subconscious way to `test´ the other's intentions. Translation to erotic behavior: giving emotional shelter aka guidance & support. More of a patient person.
>>>Se subtype style: to look for depth and darkness. That's why they desire to be pushed away to know that there is something hidden while still looking for - and even provoking - hints of affection to see whether a union is worth it or not for both. What they offer erotically is fearlessness, strategic encouragement & admiration. Rambunctious and less steady than the Fi-subtype in the romantic realm.
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@morose what do you think of this
Last edited by Maritsa; 07-22-2016 at 12:53 PM.
When child and parent are from a different quadra, it may get confusing - for instance, SEE kids raised by an LSE may act like caregivers first and prefer the "Se approach" because their Te is emphasized?
Last edited by Chae; 07-22-2016 at 12:57 PM. Reason: punctuation
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unless you mean the new movies, in which case i agree w SLE. that kirk seems to have all these awkward Fi PoLR moments, as i saw it.
i think shatner is SLE.
First and foremost, fuck "gender skewing". That said:
It's kind of driving me crazy that these terms aren't defined... lol
So if by "top" we mean the person who does most of the work, whether dominant or submissive, I lean top but can appreciate being a bottom for a little while. I'm always dominant though, even when I'm bottom. I absolutely do not switch. If it seems like my partner want to be dominant or equal, I'll allow us to interact on equal terms. My level of interest in the person drops though. And at this point I vet potential partners to make sure they are, in the very least, not dominant.
I actually prefer non-verbal consent, but that usually starts with stuff like hand holding and cuddling. But not always. lol
SEE does things like this (wait for it)
It kind of shows the difference to Si quadras as well
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What I -think- Se base is like in bed.. (based mostly on theory and perhaps one person I knew) Si ignoring makes the person less frivolous, less lingering in touch (at least beforehand). Aside from maybe a traumatized individual, the person is not hiding what they want, though they are still irrational and prone to change in the midst of something (probably more true of SEE). They can be submissive or bottoms or anything, but physically they will tell you what to do (maybe using words or simply moving you around). They expect this behavior will end hesitation and would probably be confused or turned off if someone continued to act coy past a point. For me it works because I don't have to worry if I'm doing something wrong; they will simply adjust it without comment or reflection. Additionally, in my limited experience, they pursue their own pleasure and worry little about yours, which is perfect for me who feels awkward when asked how this feels or if I'm having fun, et cetera
(relevant: I think I'm ILI but I keep trying to strike a medium between the system and reality, which is stupid)
Yeah, I have also realized that not all ego types will be the "Top" in a sexual encounter.
Most females are stereotypically "Bottom", but as you said, the kind can be sort of "aggressive" when it comes to fulfilling their own desires and so forth, whereas ego types are more passive in comparison.
Female Gamma SFs are rarely "Tops" like I previously suggested, but they often have a "switch" attitude.
Same thing for female Beta STs.
It seems like women who are thoroughly "Tops" are rather rare, and it is usually tied to them being a BDSM practitioner/dominatrix (no pun intended ).
I get the impression that most Dominatrix women might be lead or some aggressive ESI-Se with a sadistic streak, but I am not really sure, so take this with a grain of salt.
Based on my observations, I'd suggest that male Beta STs are the most clearly and often the "Top", followed by male SEEs, male LSEs who make use of their Demonstrative , and some LIE-Te guys who are really in their Pseudo-Aggressor element and refuse to show any "Victim weakness".
I could try to come up with a ranking of "Tops" and "Bottoms", but that could be rather silly and weird, haha.
So... what is up with that. It doesn't look so... coordinated. A hug or patting to a back is so much nicer. Making a huge impact to an object (=person) physically? Victims like that?
Is there a possibility that if someone punches you into a face... it makes you feel... alive?
Oh well. Whatever floats your boat (if the sinking one is not preferred).
From me one can not demand and expect:
- practicality of ideas;
- punctuality and diligence;
- consistency and completeness;
- constant order in the home and in the workplace;
- quality of routine work;
- soft skills to adapt to the interlocutor.
Anal Expulsive personality (no hyphens for you)
So called false dual logic that actually reveals some remote potentials:
"sure crocodiles can fly, but very, very close to the ground"
Just think about it.
Making feel alive is probably best left to Si experiential realm, since Ni may be somewhat devoid of self
also perhaps this behaviour is better attributed to Fi creative or even ESFx than Se base... I don't know that SLE will jump out of control to hug somebody? (SLE 7 perhaps, but then it will extend to ILE 7 etc)
many potential justifications: unambiguously shaking the stalled Ip into reality, leaving an unforgettable impression that will combat insidious feelings of neutrality (for me this works but I don't think it's Ni--I'm probably just messed up with words and not believing what people claim)
Of course the most important consideration: Just because XXX type does it, doesn't mean their dual is automatically engineered to like it. Maybe they just tolerate.
SEE just get super excited and swept away with love and are bold bold bold with their laugh and teasing.
but in a way even though they are "submissive" (in this example scenario) they are still actually dominant because the partner has become a (willing) instrument of their will. this i think helps the partner feel more confident in the situation too (there is a stronger more physical will being provided by the aggressor, and it makes it easier to let go of one's physical inhibitions or begin working on letting go of them - but really what it's helping you let go of is your mind which is creating all the inhibitions). anything that might feel like failure is just absorbed by the aggressor's will--it doesn't stop channeling, it doesn't flounder and sputter out (of course the aggressor can change their mind, but that's obviously different). so even though the Se lead in this scenario is "bottom" they are still actually "top" beneath it all (they make their will happen).
this kind of thing was why i initially identified with victim/aggressor until i became so mentally ill and confused (and i've changed a fucking lot - i have changed so dramatically it's not healthy probably - whatever mangled form i have now, isn't a normal human form). when i was with the Ne dom i felt constantly under pressure about these things. sometimes i'd freeze in bed and cover my eyes until he forcibly removed my hands from my face. but he didn't like using his Se role. i just felt deeply inadequate. and i was *trying* - i really was. the whole relationship was plagued by feelings where i just am not enough.
SEE-Fi though i think *can* be quite anxious and unsure (depending again on the individual). so that's where i'm uncertain about this. and i also think that partners are not just always like perfect puzzle pieces fitting together. work has to be put in, on both ends.
but i still think something is wrong here. victim/aggressor and Ni/Se i don't think align perfectly. it's not some perfect match. i think it's possible to be victim/aggressor and *not* be Ni/Se. it's become recently apparent to me that i'm head triad. it's always been there; the evidence was always there... i just was uncertain. i don't let go of my mind, like ever. i rev up my thinking in response to all of life's difficulties. all of my physical inhibitions are because i can't let my mind go.
eta: also *anyone* can lack confidence. even Se lead. oh, and haha, to make this worse (more difficult to pin down). i think some victims (especially more experienced ones?) might want to make *their* will happen instead. the aggressor (depending on who they are) could willfully like going along with that (again, still absorbing failures without incident really). sex can be so intimate that i think once deeply connected enough, each partner can maybe become more of the other?
(i think the opportunity to resist/fight is part of this too... because the mind doesn't simply shut itself off on cue or something - it has its own will)
so really all of what i said is just mind vs. body.
Last edited by inumbra; 09-21-2016 at 05:28 PM.
I wrote a blog entry on how each type is being a Top or Bottom.
This is what most female SEEs are like, based on my observations:
While most male SEEs are like this:Prefers being the receiver in a sexual encounter, but is more proactive. They will not wait indefinitely like a Pure Bottom for someone to approach them and/or "do all the work", but more or less actively seek out someone who "will give it to them". The modern dating scene is ideal for Bottom leaning women. Many women of this disposition are promiscuous in their youth.
As you can see, lead does not always equal Top – mostly when it is female.In-between the Hard and Soft Top, they lead and dominate their partner to the extent that is culturally expected by the man in a sexual encounter. This is the ideal sexual disposition for a man in most (heterosexual) women's eyes.
But they will be "Power Bottoms" (I have heard a gay guy use this term before, haha, for someone who is a Bottom but not that passive about it).
Is elvis SEE?
I think this theory is on to something but it is limited to Fe-Ti.
if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against
has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM
Alright, all of this talk about what SEEs are like romantically/sexually (especially in regards to dominance and initiation) is prompting me to offer my own preferences and experiences. For science. What I'm hearing in other people's posts doesn't sound all that aggressor-y to me? But maybe that's what most SEEs are like. idk. Here's me:
I have always preferred to be the initiator, the one in pursuit. Someone catches my eye, and I go out of my way to talk to and be around them so I can decide if I am indeed interested in making something happen between us. Sometimes I discover that we're not romantically/sexually compatible and build/maintain a friendship instead. Sometimes I realize that they're kind of a shitty person and lose interest altogether. Once I've decided to make a move, I like do so swiftly and boldly when possible. I just flat out tell them that I'm interested in them. If I feel it's the right time, I ask to make plans or ask if I can kiss them or if they want to be in a relationship with me or whatever. I actually rather prefer to use nonverbal communication to express interest and initiate, whether sitting too close or using eye contact to see how they respond. I'll take their hand. I'll tell them I want to cuddle, then wait until there's a bunch of tension built up and kiss them. There have been multiple occasions where I've just taken someone by the chin, turned their face if necessary, and kissed them without talking about it first. I enjoy being a bit abrupt if I'm certain that the person is interested. As I've gotten older, I've found that talking about it very briefly first is generally a good idea instead of just using nonverbal communication to make sure we're on the same page.
Once things have progressed to sexual intimacy (preceded by making out), I've usually initiated sex by just taking my clothes off, instructing them to do the same, and going to town. I lead the way throughout, letting them know what position to be in and what to do and (if necessary) how I would like for them to do it. I prefer nonverbal communication as much as possible here, too. For example, I'd rather just roll onto my back and push their head down than actually verbalize that I want them to go down on me. I also use my feel for how close they are to getting off and what gets them closer or keeps them further from it to control when they get off to suit me. Usually with an established partner I end up telling them it's okay for them to get off now. I've used minor pain (nipple pinching, lightly biting, etc.) with some partners. Once I told someone that he may pleasure me, but I would not reciprocate. And I didn't.
And all of the above has been my behavior in vanilla relationships. I've actually never dated a sub! (One ex was somewhat switchy, but he was mostly interested in things that I hate, so most of our sexual interactions were vanilla.) I'm looking forward to hopefully one day experiencing an actual D/s relationship. The reason I haven't yet is because, despite having had BDSM fantasies since before I even knew what sex was, I suppressed my sadistic side and tried to soften my dominance because I just simply didn't know that there are people out there who actually WANT to be beaten and abused and humiliated. The mindset of submission is so completely and utterly foreign to me that I assumed that anyone who's doing that must just be giving in to something they don't actually like because their partner wants them to, which would obviously be fucked up. Had I known that there are people out there who want/need to be in such a relationship, I would have been searching for that all along! At this point, I might be willing to do vanilla if it's someone I'm really into, but I would prefer to explore BDSM.
So yeah. That's me, and that's where I've been and what I'm looking for. While it's a turn off if the person is so bold as to make a move on me first, I do recognize that due to the rarity of the type of thing I'm looking for, it may make sense for someone who knows of my interest in the above things to let me know that they're also into that stuff and might be interested in me. But what I really want is to actually have to pursue and eventually win someone. I want to work for it! It has to be someone who wants to be won though, so subtle signs of interest are necessary. There has to be a mutual attraction.
ESfp will satellite someone until that someone takes them as a partner. They are insecure in that they need to keep eyes ears out for that person that they want. It's kinda like being high on the chase. They can be immature as a friend because to them their sense comes before ethics so if a friend too likes the same person they won't care about their friend and will pursue the guy. They just don't make steady and loyal friends in my experience with SEE and the only time that they are seemingly loyal is when they don't want the same things as their friend. I've given up friendships with SEEs and now most of my friends are Deltas. Deltas have high relationship values and we don't play cat and mouse games with our relationships.
Just as point of comparison before you ask, Ni doesn't produce a submissive clueless person, but rather someone who unconsciously cedes certain authority by divorcing self from unfolding relationship process. In the case of beta Ni, I assume this means practical authority, and in gamma Ni, pride authority or whatever
Okay I hate bringing this up because it's somewhat misleading, but in my history as a forumite I've been typed SEE more than I've been typed any other single type. I'm using my Se to evaluate this thread... Hmm, hmmmm, yes what I'm feeling is that posters are mourning all the years since they last got laid
Your reasoning is a bit weird, suggesting Se Seeking cannot be aware of Se...
I mean, maybe, if they did not know about Socionics – but I do, so...
Your reluctance concerning observing power dynamics like I do makes me think you are likely not Se valuing.
So, it is odd people would type you as SEE on this forum.
But hey, many people on here cannot type too well. I have been typed as probably almost any type by now.
Too bad telling the internet doesn't help
SEE want to be loved date a IEE want to love. What a cute couple!
if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against
has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM
A bump. My SEE is also an aggressive bottom of sorts. It is very attractive to me. I don't really have much to add, but I want to hear more if anyone can add on.
ILI-Ni 5w4 sp/sx 548 RLUEI
I'll take this thread as an opportunity to ramble about my most recent infatuation, whom I believe to be an SEE. We only met twice (while I was on vacation in a distant land), so I don't have too much to say, but his behavior might be of interest to those thinking about how romantically/sexually aggressive SEEs may or may not be.
He initiated a lot of physical contact--at dinner, he told me to sit next to him instead of across from him so that he could put his arm around me. He initiated hand-holding and kissing. And with everything, he would always ask if it was okay! (Which was cute, because he was doing it in a gentlemanly way, not an unconfident way.) He taught me basic swing and tango steps in the streets. He invited himself back to my place.
When we got there, he took off most of his clothes and got in bed without trying to pull anything with me, which confused me. I was like, "...Should I leave the lights on, or..." Then he looked surprised and was like, "Oh, did you want to play with each other now?" This made me nervous cause what if he didn't want to do anything, so I was just like "OK I'M TURNING THE LIGHTS OFF" (#SePoLR on my behalf). We cuddled in silence for a bit, until he was like, so is that what you meant?, and I was like, umm. And he finally took the hint and started kissing me again, etc.
As for sexual preferences, I am super submissive. He wasn't particularly inclined toward dominating, but he was really cute, sweet, and open-minded, and at one point, he rigged some makeshift handcuffs out of a pillowcase for me.
His predominant sexual fantasy seems to be a sexually confident woman simultaneously seducing him and one of his male friends.
Would be curious if this makes you guys think, "Oh yeah, that guy is totally SEE," or that he's something else. I'm pretty sure he's a Gamma extrovert.