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Socionics and relationships. From personal experience of an LSI. (translation)
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Last edited by silke; 11-30-2016 at 04:06 AM.
Three cheers for your translation work! Please finish this. *puppy eyes*
Reason is a whore.
I am just waiting for the EIE and IEI descriptions...
But thanks.
I just read this Russian LSI's description of a female Jack (LIE-ENTj). Since the first woman I lived with (and fell in love with) was an LSI, I found the LSI's description of LIE's very interesting. I can definitely see the relationship from an LSI's perspective. The description was accurate, slightly uncomfortable to read, but essentially true.
Except for the LSI's interpretation of one thing. The insatiable sex thing, It was not motivated by a desire to show off. It was a tangible demonstration of my affection.
Silke, thanks for finding this.
aha, LSI's realistic question of "to do, or not to do" seems a proper complement to their dual's existential problem "to be, or not to be". (:
... to "do"?Originally Posted by glam
Reason is a whore.
Ah did this guy try the entire socion in bed for experimentation with the theory? Not bad
Sounds like Ti subtype
I find SEI is better than average on social distance but it makes sense that it would be no good on closer distance (though no experience on that)it is better not to get involved with SEIs extensively. Although this type of relations is usually ranked as "average degree of comfort", in my opinion – this is a ticking time bomb. Despite all the relative surface-level idyll, within the beneficiary (i.e. LSI) there grows and matures a subconscious desire to make a scandal.
Exact same experiences with ESE friend.There's mutual support coming from base functions, but these partners are not able to resolve each other’s internal problems. ESE doesn’t know how to analyze the soulful harmony of the LSI, and doesn't know how to plan or predict the emerging trends. Therefore, with internal conflicts the LSI will have to deal on his or her own; in in the moments of emotional confusion and turmoil of LSI, ESE will offer inappropriate positives and various pleasantries, which enrage even further than they help.
Hm, I just ignore it as it's too boring; doesn't overload my mind but that was funny wording.The combination of introverted and extroverted sensing makes this couple very practical and socially well-adapted. Max earns money, while Hugo creates comfort in their home and takes case of their social standing. ESEs are often very good cooks, but personally, with my repressed introverted sensing I never chase after the "delicacies": I suffice with simple common products like fresh black bread and cheap tea. I like good food, but I absolutely do not care how it was cooked, while ESE wants to talk about it, wants to have such dialogue. For me such information is noise that clogs and overloads my mind.
Would be immediately fucking annoying for me.This is to say that the material sphere in a pair LSI + ESE is in very solid grasp. However, there's this one, at times, unpleasant nuance: partial, or sometimes full extinguishment of the creative functions. Both are sensing types – both "put claims" to the material part of the world – and both are confident in their actions. As a result, during joint activities (for example, going to the store) a certain amount of nerves and energy is expanded on either taking initiative or waiting for instructions, as it is impossible to divide responsibilities for all occasions of life. Often I would do some shopping, arrange things in the house, and ESE rearranges them or moves to another place, or does something a bit differently - in a word: corrects all my actions, and this happens with almost every step I take, even when it’s not needed. At first, this is ok, but later this becomes vexing.
Hm, subtype dependent. LII-Ti is more like this than LII-Ne, I think.LIIs of both genders I perceive solely as cousins, brothers-sisters. They are friends and colleagues, good and pleasant acquaintances, but I have never considered them as relationship partners. Even seeing a LII woman with a beautiful figure nothing awakens in me, it's a complete calm. They are cold herrings – practically same as I am. Ice + Ice = bs.
I didn't bother to check all the 36 pages of the original russian thread so the question is, did they post all the other three quadras yet?...to be continued...
Yes, they posted all three quadras. I just relied on Google Translate, rather than the Russians I work with, to get a sense of what he was saying. Silke can do much better, since she knows the nomenclature while the Russians I work with do not. (I tried using them to translate previous Russian texts, but did not get good results.)
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Last edited by silke; 11-30-2016 at 04:07 AM.
I find it intriguing that this LSI would comment on how it feels to hug each type. It's a very creativeway of describing a type. I like it.
Now it makes sense to me why I enjoy hugging my SEE sister the most...
I'm dying to hear about EIE and IEI
OK continuing with my observations and comments as the same type. (Though different subtype.)
Lol for real @ the bolded
The whole ILI section fits with my experiences except that I didn't ever get that consistently close with any ILI to see the build up of dissatisfaction and resentment, it always stayed pleasant enough benefit relations. So I can't confirm it or add anything to that.Hoho, this is a case where two introverted “cold herrings” could have a good time. ILI is a victim, which means that in personal life he/she is very much suggested by volitional means, that need to be presented in good humor and with optimism.
With some reservations, it can be said that LSI’s “aggressor program” overlaps with ILI’s.
Lol almost the whole LIE section fits well based on my experiences with them in several types of relationships - family member, short term relationship, long term relationship, friends, buddies - but I have to say that I usually understand the arguments in our fights as long as they keep a pretty rational and reasonable attitude. As long as they are able to keep that attitude, it is actually enjoyable and not feeling like a dead end. Unfortunately they don't always seem to be capable of doing so.The ethical side of these relationships is not covered, thus, from both sides it seems like the other lacks in softness and acquiescent attitudes. "You are amoral. That's not fair!" By this "unfair" she put me into a dead end more than once.
Maybe difference in intelligence levels for the LSI-Ti writer because in my case with LIE-Ni ex bf we were on a similar level. Fights about real life issues yes but I did not mind some fighting and I was able to win often enough while enjoying the rationality usually kept by LIE-Ni. And with intellectual talks it was quite satisfying being able to explain my viewpoint and then him reflecting on it, those did not involve arguing for some reason. With most other LIE's I do get into arguments over intellectual topics (too), this is true. Still, usually enjoyable, anyhow. Except if they are too unintelligent because then it gets frustrating after a while. Overall, very easy communication, just not learning a whole lot from them, their ideas only occasionally sticking with me. (Which fits with Mirage relations.)Why has the LIE done what she has done in her life she couldn't explain to me. It works because it works. She’s read somewhere that this is how it should be done. Over time, I began to doubt her intelligence. Her thinking was so strange: on the level of the very obvious things. And yet she will attempt to constantly argue about everything.
Tbh I never saw that as a disadvantage, at all, heh.In the intimate sense LIE women seemed to me insatiable, as if for them this is yet another way to show off and to assert themselves.
With ESI-Fi long term relationship I did not have the issue of boredom, we could very well think up Se ideas on what to do and we did them. I can't say the sex has to be grey due to that. The shared Se creative was just great in everything when doing the ideas we had. Just naturally flowing or being in crazy good Se sync or something. I agree about the warmth stuff too. Same with non-romatic relationships with others, shared Se creative sync and fun competition and higher ethics on their side, higher logics on mine supplementing each other relatively well. The competitiveness is okay too though I prefer ESI-Fi being a bit more "submissive" compared to ESI-Se but that's fun tooKind, loyal, responsible, calm, and industrious. In my opinion, ESI woman is the perfect guardian of the hearth and home of the family. In relations with them there aren’t any obvious issues. The only thing: it’s boring, exceedingly boring. Even though I have the same "painful" function, on the background of an ESI I am like the bubbling geyser of creative ideas. It seems like that for them coming up with something original is even more complicated than for the LSIs.
Always a non-issue for me, I just explain in my own style haha, they'll either listen and somehow take their facts they needed from it or they'll tune out immediately lol not my problem then I just don't have to bother continuing with my explanation.Another thing: a constant request for facts – and for me this feels rather straining and restrictive ... I can explain, but I don’t have the facts for all occasions of life. This nuance, of course, is tiring.
Actually the Ne PoLR seems to be of a different flavour with ESIs. I can actually encourage them via my stronger logics when I evaluate their Ne PoLR panic to be a non-issue. And they can sometimes advise on ethical matters in this area.But overall relations between LSI and ESI are calm, stable and sturdy. Both are afraid of the same things in the form of Ne – as a result of which there may be a kind of stagnation in their mutual life, as well as a sudden emergence of unpleasant surprises for both.
dunno, I've found the delta relationship descriptions to be most interesting - with beta it's seems too apparent in a been there done that sort of way ... but there's this whole exposé on aristocracy to translate before I get to the remaining two quadra, I wanted to skip it but reading it last night it was actually decent
How did you experience extinguishment of creative functions Se vs. Si with your ESE friend? Any stories to tell?
Oh yeah one particularly stands out; I was very pissed off and ranting about how my training was not going well (we both do that sport, running to be precise), shit gettting in my way for no visible reason, and she suggested I drop all attention on performance and competitiveness and instead just go out enjoying the sunshine and the birds chirping. She also added how she found herself lucky that she is able to easily let go of such shit and not be bothered by it and too bad that I wasn't like that. In response I got even more pissed off, I went all blunt Ti and explained where she went utterly wrong assuming all that shit about me and how I couldn't care less about the fucking birds, lol. For me to get that blunt in public, well... it means a lot in terms of how angry I got. The great thing is that the ESEs seem to handle the bluntness alright - with a tiny little bit of effort, but yes, compared to certain other people they are good with this - and the conflict is resolved beautifully after a bit of trying.
I'm still waiting for more.
Please! <3
> low stress tolerance
"low stress tolerance" is types related only in weak functions area.
> that there are people out there who don’t view them as flaws.
Everybody sees weakness as flaws.
types is not indulgence. they only describe you
Will work on it since I'm feeling very introverted lately, and then I have @Myst's request for LSI-EIE duality article next.
Lol "napkin"!!!!
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Ne pole- not coming up with original things. I do
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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Last edited by silke; 11-30-2016 at 04:07 AM.
come to think of it, this makes a whole lot of sense
Kissing of hands is still regularly done in Russia? It'd be rather weird and out of place in my country in most settings.
In my family, it is custom to kiss the elders' hand as a welcoming gesture when there is a certain festivity.
I've noticed that my Delta ST grandpa is the one who enjoys it the most. My SEI and SEE uncles both try to make the situation "less serious", and sometimes make me not kiss their hand.
My SEE aunt also dislikes the hand kissing thing, and will try to avoid it. My IEE aunt is usually upbeat, but does demand me to welcome her appropriately.
Really cool how all of this makes sense in light of the Aristocratic/Democratic dichotomy.
Well this has been posted in a Beta VK. group as a poster for LSI female - EIE male relations
As to the serious discussion:
Substitute all the mentions for "kissing of hands" for whichever acts that would convey personal respect in your own country - this is what the author has meant behind it. I.E. the "hand kissing" is a visual metaphor for what he was trying to convey as to "Aristocratic" types preferring to keep some personal distance.
This is not a norm in Russia nowadays. However, for Russians it is a common pastime to go to the theater, and watch plays that are usually staged on basis on classical literature. There such signals of personal respect are quite common, and which is likely what he is referencing for his romantic images.
VK = ?Well this has been posted in a Beta VK. group as a poster for LSI female - EIE male relations
VKontakte - facebook equivalent
Reason is a whore.
As an Aristocratic type I related to Keeping one's distance and approaching gradually theses gradually approaches are things that I'm told to do. For example when I first entered into my bf's family's home I looked to him to tell me where it was okay to move. He would say things like "ghouls can go sit on the couch" I feel very intrusive and will not expand upon territory unknowingly as SEE tend to do without realizing that they have.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
"VK" is an abbreviation for "v kontakte", which translates as "in contact", which is rus-language social media website as Guava has already said.
finally done w/ delta - this one was long translation
Delta Quadra
Frankly, it is with some trepidation that I proceed to accounting for the Delta part of my personal experiences, as I have long ago noticed that this quadrant plays a certain mysterious, perhaps even fateful and tragic role in my life. First of all, I should mention that I have always felt a certain respect for the representatives of this quadrant, possibly because it is also “aristocratic” same as the second one.
This is not only a matter of PR. The views and values of Deltas are completely unlike that of ours, the Beta types; in their quadrant everything is so different that a certain distance is automatically created – this distance is that of careful observation and study, and, in a sense, of comprehension of the opposite side of being. However, the charm and mystery of the opposite quadrant is extremely fragile, such that one needs to exert some effort for this charm to become encompassing and engaging without evoking any negative reactions. The ability to accept and appreciate values “alien” to oneself is not attained immediately: it is easier to react habitually and to give in to the blind automatic reactions of our TIMs, rejecting that which causes us discomfort. With an adequate level of understanding of the specifics of TIMs and some adjustments of one’s own psyche, it is well possible to learn to interact well with people of opposite quadra. In a sense, Delta is alike a mysterious underwater world, to witness the beauty of which one needs to obtain some scuba equipment. Such equipment cannot be bought - we need to construct it ourselves. With my not particularly strong ethics of relations, it is especially difficult to understand the relationships of the opposite quadrant, thus meeting them is almost like making contact with an alien civilization. There are many unknowns that this offers, that ceaselessly provide basis for new ruminations, ruminations about the fate, about the randomness and causality, and in general how it was all so ingeniously conceived in nature.
But enough for the preface.
Shtirki (LSEs)
I clearly feel the “sensory” background of a person, the kind of sensations that a person radiates around him/herself. LSE women I frequently encounter through work: from them comes a sense of officialness, some coldness and tension, and an almost male-like angularity in movements. I was never particularly attracted to them, because even the most beautiful LSE women don’t seem feminine enough to me ...
But somehow it happened with one LSE girl we felt a mutual attraction. I got almost no feedback from her or picked up any signs of interest (to which I’m subconsciously oriented), so when we met I always took the initiative myself – it was clear that that ethics in a relationship has to be directed by her partner and not herself. What was discouraging – her total practical independence; never in my life have I felt as superfluous and unnecessary in a relationship, and this impression could re-visit me at any instance when we weren’t talking in abstraction. Talking was exciting and interesting, as our life attitudes and interests were very similar (at first glance), but when we would go out somewhere, I felt like on me was imposed a role if not of a faithful puppy, then perhaps of a doll, which would get moved around from place to place at the "baroness' instant behest". It was difficult to arrive at even small decisions of organizational nature: the sense was that at every turn sticks would get inserted into my wheels. This was a heavy sense. This went on for several weeks until we parted like ships in the sea. Our initial "hook" of attraction was over the role functions – I'm, as if, a white ethical type, and she is, as if, a black ethical one. In essence – a cardboard illusion. She was short on that soulful warmth that I also needed myself, only warmth of a different kind, and we had too little of it between us to fulfill each other's needs.
If LIE women impart an impression of being "wooden" then LSE women feel to be made out of concrete. Sex with her was rather strange: not a single superfluous movement, rationality taken to the highest apex, akin to work of a professional surgeon. She used to give me instructions, that in her laconic tone in a rather funny manner sounded like "orders": "let's try it this way", "now let's do this", etc. Everything was high quality, no complaints - but there was no soul in it and too little tenderness. As a result, despite being physically satisfied, emptiness and dissatisfaction prevailed in my soul …
It is interesting to observe LSEs at a distance, talking with them is enjoyable and entertaining, but when you have to work on something together, even if some minor decision or project, tension appears: at every step it was necessary to wait when the wish to impose his/her own way of doing things will climb out of the LSE. In addition, and this nuance wasn’t very pleasant for me, LSEs rarely think about that others may have different ways of doing things and a different perspective. They think: "This should be obvious for everyone, because that's how it is." The sincere dream of any LSE – that all those around would mindlessly obey them, meanwhile to me all their directives sound as dull formalism, while it's not clear to them why I object to their "reasonable", in their view, demands. … One time I was on a business trip with a coworker of LSE TIM. While he was talking and discussing at length about what needs to be done, I have thought out our assignment in detail and quickly implemented it upon our arrival (and if he didn’t talk on and on, and try to interfere with his instructing, I would have done it even quicker). The LSE approved of this, but he never did see how one can do so much work without shaking up air at every step with phrases a la "look at how I’m working, working, working …" – such waste of time is completely irrational. LSEs are very hardworking, imo, but if they had talked less in the process, they would have time to finish much more.
But let's not digress further. “Contrary/Extinguishment” relations, in my opinion, are the most fragile relations of all. They fall apart like same poles of two magnets pressed together. It also seemed to me that LSE women, for some reason, aren’t very good with humor. They joke rarely and somehow too softly (or even flatly imo), and aren't readily responsive to jokes themselves, thus they have to be actively humored. What's there to do – quadrant of "serious" objectivists. It seems that "merriness" descends from Alpha to Delta.
Dostochki (EIIs)
And here things get more interesting. Potentially, in terms of sexual appeal for me, from the entire Socion, EII women confidently take either the 3rd or the 4th place – right after duals, activators, and someone else.
Six years ago, an EII girl was sent from St. Petersburg to our neighboring department for work experience. I was assigned to look after her, supply her with various instructions. It is noteworthy that she was already more or less familiar with socionics. We quickly found common conversations topics. Initially, our communication was related to work, and then it developed into supposedly a study of the mysterious "relations of superego". Well, we studied thoroughly: started taking walks together after work, and soon, late one night, I suddenly found myself in her kitchen - eating up and praising her culinary creations. She rented an apartment alone, that night I was reluctant to travel to the other side of Moscow so late, and the evening demanded a continuation - well, in short, a classic situation.
On subjective evaluation of things. She made a wonderfully strange impression on me. Firstly - a strong, unaccountable, not subject to any comprehension, mutual attraction; it was alike being in a pleasant fog, that enchants and intrigues for some time, and which there is no wish to dissipate. Secondly - very frequent mutual misunderstandings. To me it seemed that she spoke riddles – creative Ne, in my perception of it, turns simple banal questions into a kind of lengthy edifying exposes, vague and unclear as to what about. The meaning of each other’s phrases was often misinterpreted, and a certain amount of time was spent figuring out whether we have really understood each other. Seemingly we were speaking the same language, but our interpretations were completely different – and for me this was amazing. Communication in smoke.
Along with mutual sympathy, these relations are also characterized by a particular fragility: when the distance became closer, the slightest movements of my creative function (too active manipulation of objects, for example) automatically affected her painful function, which I tried to avoid very much. Her desire to endlessly improve the situation (when it was already fine, it's enough!) and to "create" surprises would often be strenuous for me.
Strangely enough, it was also the realization of how weak her logic really was. For me, from point of view of my base function, the logical connections and relationships between objects and events are very apparent, and operating with logical concepts is easy; while on her role function the arguments seemed too vague, with omissions of important elements, and, in general, superficial and fuzzy. Her intelligence, meanwhile, was rather high – she quickly mastered and completed not the easiest assignments at work. Of course, my attempts at ethical reasoning certainly must have looked as pitiful, only she has never mentioned it even when I asked her to give me constructive criticism (the tactful "humanist"). Being next to her I wanted to absorb and learn how to be just as ethical and sensitive; I was struck by the depth of her sympathy and her justifications for people's actions. It was strange to see how IMPORTANT a person actually is to her ("bad people do not exist") - even if he is the last bastard, a useless amoeba, which, given authority, I would have utilized without hesitation – and then calmly in the same evening drank tea with bagels and had fun. Excess on white ethics, Fi, sometimes put me in a state of disorientation when for some time when there is negation of base function: no idea how to assess the situation - from an ethical or logical point of view. It’s not far from going crazy.
I felt from her a strange request for "black logic" Te: frequently there were situations in which she froze in indecision, and all her behavior posed one question: "What to do now, how to act?" For me, it feels unnatural to articulate that, which I always do in silence, thus such requests would bring me to a stupor for some time. What was also interesting how subtly and sensitively she reacted to the manifestations of my "demonstrative" function, Si. Since she reacted to even minor overloads in sensory impressions with slight shock, it became necessary to dose such manifestations and to focus on Si-"range". I was, perhaps, good with this. The best compliment I've heard from her, as a representative of Delta quadrant, that I’m particularly proud of: "You know, you have such a "tasty" demonstrative!".
Couple times she jokingly asked me to show her "how is it, over there in Beta". All kinds of squeezes and light spanks included – but, of course, I had to seriously limit myself. EII is not a "victim" type, this I felt with the back of my spine that she wasn't meant for this, the "margin of safety" isn't the same. Sometimes she seemed so fragile to me, that I was afraid to accidentally break something in her …
All in all, this lasted for a few months, though I knew full well that this relationship has no future. Communication became exhausting, but not without some pleasant moments. For her, as an introvert, it was difficult to constantly assume the ethical responsibility to "mend" the conversation when there was nothing left to talk about. In general, communicating and relating to each other was not quite the natural mode of operation of the psyche for both of us; the constant need to make adjustments and to keep yourself within certain frameworks started to feel oppressive. I also got scared that I was falling in love more and more with her ... Fortunately, she, by virtue of her tact, did not imposed herself, was perceptive of certain coldness that set in, and tried to leave early for St. Petersburg. The distance grew by every meaning of it. Though I'm sure that something was saved, even to this time, because she continues to send reminders of herself.
Conclusion: mysterious, interesting, strange and unusual. Still, there's no wish for more. When I talk with another EII, those same familiar feelings immediately emerge, and the entire associative array unfolds of what has been experienced ... No, I don't want a second time. In this kind of relationship, there lies a hidden potential for a tragedy: strong mutual attraction with the impossibility of being together for a long time, since that the actions of the partner cause hurt. Pure sadomasochism.
Gabenki (SLIs)
Gabenki, Gabenki ... That's whom I think I would have put in third place in my rankings of sexual attractiveness. SLIs belong to the socionics club of "managers", but they have none of the rigidity and the concrete-ironess of LSE women. Despite my unconscious preference for intuitive slender women, I often find SLI women to be very attractive, although they, by virtue of receptive-adaptive temperament, are often prone to certain fullness in figure. In most cases I personally take this fullness to be pleasant, organic, and very attractive. SLI women are the embodiment of sex; even with minimal external beauty, they always seem alluring with their unambiguous subtle intonations, hints, and subtexts, which I take as signals to seduction. It was more than once that the fate has brought us together, one time things almost got to marriage ... Always in my life, SLI women appeared and disappeared quite suddenly, and "accidentally".
Although I have been studying Socionics for over 10 years, the dualization of SLI and IEE, for me, is still one of the biggest mysteries, for it is completely unyielding to my rational understanding. In this lies a special charm of the "quasi-identical" intertype relations.
Our interests seem to be very close, and our motivations – similar. There is always something constructive to discuss, since we have completely different approaches to same things - and this somehow attracts rather than repels. The point of view of each person seems worthwhile – there are no attempts to impose opinions as it happens in "contrary/extinguishment" relations. Talking to both SLI men and women I obtained a huge amount of interesting information concerning the organization of life in all practical matters. It's as if the sphere of our activity is similar, but the methods are different, while our actions do not overlap and interfere with each other because the rhythms of our lives are radically different. SLI women are usually tactful (their sense of self-esteem disallows them to be lousy to others), despite their irrationality – responsible (again, self-esteem), and erudite, well versed and discerning in the arts and literature. Unlike their "mirror" type, SLIs are not fixed on formalism and unequivocal opinions, thus their thinking is more flexible, and they react to excessive stubbornness with humor. In a group, with the presence of other people, SLIs and LSIs are usually appealing to each other with their behavior (role functions partially activate). Both like the sobriety and the practical judgment of the other; it seems like your quasi-identical is very close to you intellectually, at the same time there is some kind of a priori mutual respect, which imo is highlighted by mutual "aristocratism". Due to the similarity of the spheres of activity, both partners are always able to provide information to each other about the usual things, but each time from a completely new side. There is a massive amount of food for thought. Also, talking "about life" with SLI women is enjoyable, especially in a state of intoxication (to all Maxims - recommended).
As for the intimate nuances, here all my "aggressor" aspirations were safely extinguished. I had to fully focus on the sphere of Si, but not for the same reasons as with EIIs. To experience all the fine touches and subtleties of every caress, to find new borders and to always try to surpass in the art of love – this is what I learned from SLI women. Frankly speaking, the experience was very interesting, even if such a manner of behavior was for me at times tedious. Reinin "Decisive" trait would still let itself be known and move me to act accordingly ... Both LSIs and SLIs have 4-dimensional "white sensing" Si. The "short-circuiting" that happens over this aspect of such force provides for interesting effects, only if for a short time. Later, I would feel that she's burdened by the manifestations of my "demonstrative" function. The number of touches coming from me to her clearly seemed excessive, but I cannot touch "just a little bit" and "barely" ... If I take something, then I have get a good feel for it and obtain very explicit feedback from the object, get a sense of how it's responding to me. For SLI women this was too much; even to not very strong squeezes she responded in amiss, which would upset me.
And the tar. Our areas of interest were similar, but then it turned out that a constructive discussion that happened in a group, in one-on-one situation would grow into endless disputes, which was only alienating. Each other's aspirations and wishes on the "child" Super-Id block evoke distancing and rejection. As Vladimir Vysotsky once sang: "I do not like intrusions into my soul" - in the Delta it is often not customary to talk of one's inner world and deeper inner feelings. I was often desperate in situations, when SLI would suddenly get agitated and upset over completely incomprehensible to me issues, meanwhile not wanting to explain anything, closing herself off, while sending all sorts of signals that "something is wrong". At the same time, how to fix it and what to do - it wasn't clear at all. The distance grows, communication drops down to a minimum, several months later SLI suddenly re-appears and lets me know that once again she wants to see and touch me. IEEs and SLIs apparently don't have ex's in the true meaning of the word; in my phone book there are still several phone numbers of SLI women whom I haven't seen for years but whom I could call – and they would at a minimum agree to go out for a meeting. Ethics of relations are in value in Delta … thus they are kept and sustained for years.
One SLI woman has been waiting for me for seven years, and in that time she has married twice. In Beta, extraneous people are usually cut off much more abruptly, and the past more categorically remains the past. A different workplace, a change in lifestyle, one's social circle changes – some inevitably get cut off, there is no reason to "drag out" past connections, even if they were pleasant. Good people are encountered everywhere, there have been some - and there will be others. But in Delta this is perceived somehow differently.
Another Gabenka is just a very good friend. What I like in her is the fact that we could talk a couple times a year, and the conversation would go like we just saw each other yesterday – relationship remains alive and continues despite all the time that has passed and prior absence of communication. Relationship doesn't exist, yet there is a relationship – no matter how much time has passed. This is amazing to me ...
In general and in summary, quasi-identity SLI + LSI is interesting, and makes for good relations for friendship and join work. But for having a family, it's rather one-sided and lacks in mutual support. In my opinion, in these relations there is total misunderstanding of each other on a deep psychological level and rather pleasant communication on a more superficial, personal one.
Gechki (IEEs)
My favorite conflictors. IEEs are representatives of the club of "humanitarians", ethics-intuitives, which in most cases determines their physical constitution. Despite some remote similarity to their dual type (and even superego) I do not get pulled to them. The reason is not in their behavior, but in something else, don't know. I have met very beautiful female representatives of type IEE, but inside my psyche was, at best, indifferent. Apparently, this is automatic workings of perception - at a deep level our subconscious is saying DO NOT DO THIS, this is not our partner.
Nevertheless, a few years ago I have had a chance to briefly meet with one IEE. Before, I could not understand how "conflict" marriages LSI+IEE can ever happen. Yet, some such couples I know personally ... It is true that a few are already divorced.
With what do IEEs attract? They can with pleasure praise someone, skillfully noticing their talents and abilities, by this they can help others believe in themselves (if by any circumstance their spirits fall). Huxley can suggest to Maxim solutions in situations where it seems like there is no way out at all. This kind of help is painful but very effective – it acts like a strong medicine, that causes suffering for a short while, but after all in general it starts helping.
IEEs have one characteristic: open expression of their positive relation to someone, and full confidence that their creative "white ethics" Fi will handle all cases, that it is always possible to persuade by manner of compliments – if not today, then tomorrow. The response they get back is ignored. "Well, today he pushed me away, but tomorrow he may change his mind!" Dear IEEs, with Maxims this does not work. AT ALL. If LSI said "No" – this means tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow, and ten years later. What I mean here is one IEE woman has tried to get close to me exactly in this way, for the duration of three years. I didn't like her, but in her I evoked nothing but enthusiasm and excitement, despite the coldness of my responses to her. I restrained myself as much as I could, even so on occasion her actions would make me feel enraged, such that I had to push her away rather harshly. Some time would pass, and she would resume in the same way. Yes, she told me things that most men would be honored to hear, and I honestly enjoyed hearing them – at first, until the number of praises went wild. After all, for an IEE this is their creative work, and I still don't know to this day whether everything she said she meant 100% seriously.
After analyzing this experience and the experiences of LSI+IEE couples I have met, I made the following conclusion: in this relationship LSI suffers more than the IEE. Why?
1. The IEE is a "declaring" type, i.e. more inclined to unilaterally talk of the many options that exist out there, while paying little attention to the responses of their conversation partner. Maxim keeps silent, listens, and feels an overload on 1-dimensional perception channel Ne ("Why do I need all these possibilities? I don't need this at all.") – the desire to run away as far as possible from this arises, or simply to make the source of irritation stop talking.
2. The IEE belongs to the category of the most stress-resistant types, easily forgets problems and maneuvers out of the situation. Maxim - exactly the opposite. Thus, close presence of an IEE is, in itself, already a stress factor for Maxim - you never know what the IEE will do in the next moment - they are always getting distracted, dropping something, diverting, etc. At the same time, the IEE feels fine and has no understanding of how much enraging only their behavior can be. As one IEE girl has told me once, "Well, with you it's pretty cool!" Yeah.
3. The LSI becomes annoying for the IEE once he or she starts explaining things, or imposing own rules; however, for the most part the LSI keeps quiet while the IEE talks a lot ... Thus, the LSI begins to irritate the IEE at close personal distance, but the IEE often "delights" the LSI already from afar.
4. These relations can exist only at a safe distance. Conflicts are more or less smoothed over only by virtue of IEE's creative Fi – the LSI gets at least some input on suggestive function. Then you realize that the ability to apologize for her carelessness for the IEE is also a form of creativity. And then you cease to forgive, because believing promises such as "it won't happen again" is meaningless.
Overall, this is the picture. But lets get back to that one IEE woman that I wanted to tell about. In light of the above understanding, I was not in a hurry to become close with her, in spite of mutual sympathies. Her hints I interpreted as holding potential for stringing along, as IEEs get interested in process of flirtation to the loss of the ultimate goal ... But, oddly enough, she fulfilled her minor promises and even came to our meetings on time. She praised softly and not over the top, then began to flirt subtly, and I decided that it would be stupid to halt and stop things at this point and carefully touched her a few times, which both of us liked very much. Next time we met on neutral grounds for more serious activities. Sometimes her behavior would puzzle me: some kind of pinches, tickling - "what is this kindergarten?" A strange and ambiguous impression remained. To be honest, I liked the flirting stage much more than everything else. Furthermore, my psyche barely perceptibly but insistently hinted at the fact that this is the wrong partner, and 20-30 percent would still repulse me despite the visual appeal. The question is: why was this needed? It wasn't the best period in my life, I had a need for woman's warmth, and this IEE for a few months carefully attempted to close the distance, casually asked how things were going for me, etc. Life is not endless, and at that time I was alone - so why not, exactly?
Recently, we have met each other on the subway. She invited me to "go on a stroll" with her some time. After all, ex's do not exist.
Here is how Delta turned out through the prism of my experience and perception. An unusual quadrant with foreign values, but still somehow interesting and captivating.
Thanks to all who has patiently waited for my new posts. There will be a continuation, I cannot say when, too much work and likely I will have to fly out soon again. I will participate in discussion when possible.
Last edited by silke; 11-19-2016 at 10:30 PM.
AHHH THANK YOU @silke
I seriously love this guy, there are so many hidden gems in his way of speaking:
"Even seeing a LII woman with a beautiful figure nothing awakens in me, it's a complete calm. They are cold herrings" lol
"ILI - Hoho, this is a case where two introverted "cold herrings" could have a good time." lmao
"In sense of shared humor it is funny – ESIs under the effect of their base Fi don't laugh over too many things, such that Beta cynicism seems monstrous for them."
"The LSE approved of this, but he never did see how one can do so much work without shaking up air at every step with phrases a la "look at how I’m working, working, working …" – LSEs are very hardworking, imo, but if they had talked less in the process, they would have time to finish much more." hahahaha
"EII - It was strange to see how IMPORTANT a person actually is to her ("bad people do not exist") - even if he is the last bastard, a useless amoeba, which, given authority, I would have utilized without hesitation – and then calmly in the same evening drank tea with bagels and had fun." omg, stop.. I can't...
So true true
Thank you Silke for such hard work
Kisses
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-07-2015 at 10:37 PM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Most EII truly live in a microworld where "bad" people do not exist and actions only take place as a result of such and such need.
We are all born "good"
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
why does the guy who wrote this sound so much like adam strange???
It is the run-on sentences, kali.
Cool translation and article again!
And again a few comments comparing the experiences from my POV
Lol right. Why so much talk.The LSE approved of this, but he never did see how one can do so much work without shaking up air at every step with phrases a la "look at how I’m working, working, working …" – such waste of time is completely irrational. LSEs are very hardworking, imo, but if they had talked less in the process, they would have time to finish much more.
I don't have much experience with LSEs on a close distance but I did have this issue with them before, talking too much about what's to be done, going into details that to me seemed arbitrary and completely unnecessary.
I have an impression like that of some EII guys but it's short lasting usually.And here things get more interesting. Perhaps, in terms of sexual appeal for me from the entire Socion EII women confidently take either third or fourth position – right after duals, activators, and someone else.
Very good observation. From my POV anyway, I experience the exact same issue with quite some EIIs.Strangely enough, it was also the realization of how weak her logic is - to me, from my base function, the logical connections between objects and events are very apparent, and operating with logical concepts is easy; while on her role function the arguments seemed too vague, with omissions of important elements, and, in general, superficial and fuzzy. Her intelligence, meanwhile, was rather high – she quickly mastered and completed not the easiest assignments at work.
That certainly saves me tooOf course, my attempts at ethical reasoning certainly must have looked as pitiful, only she has never mentioned it even when I asked her to give me constructive criticism – the tactful "humanist".Makes a lot of sense if I think of it more.
That's familiar but I have my defense mechanisms against going that far in trying to Fi if I talk too much with EIIs, I will just consciously shut down this focus in myself. When I was much younger, I used to try harder at learning this sort of Fi stuff from my EII-Fi sister but it would never "stick" and since then I made my own logical approach that I'm much more comfortable with. Justify everyone's actions, nah, I'd go with the LSI on this pointBeing next to her I wanted to absorb and learn how to be just as ethical and sensitive; I was struck by the depth of her sympathy and her justifications for people's actions. It was strange to see how IMPORTANT a person actually is to her ("bad people do not exist") - even if he is the last bastard, a useless amoeba, which, given authority, I would have utilized without hesitation – and then calmly in the same evening drank tea with bagels and had fun. Excess on white ethics, Fi, sometimes put me in a state of disorientation when for some time when there is negation of base function: no idea how to assess the situation - from an ethical or logical point of view. It’s not far from going crazy.
Yep I have the same impression of them. Overall though I never really got close to any EIIs, it just doesn't work well, too many misunderstandings. I can be very interested initially about that mysterious look then get turned off fast or over time due to the things they say etc. There is always some distance that never gets closed, they get to feel distant somehow.Conclusion: mysterious, interesting, strange and unusual.
I don't know how this works either but yes my instincts also don't go for IEEs.My favorite conflictors. IEEs are representatives of the club of "humanitarians", ethics-intuitives, which in most cases determines their physical constitution. Despite some remote similarity to their dual type (and even superego) I do not get pulled to them. The reason is not in their behavior, but in something else, don't know. I have met very beautiful female representatives of type IEE, but inside my psyche was, at best, indifferent. Apparently, this is automatic workings of perception - at a deep level our subconscious is saying DO NOT DO THIS, this is not our partner.
Lol that's crazy, I'd really want to beat some sense into their heads so they understand how delusional they are.IEEs have one characteristic: open expression of their positive relation to someone, and full confidence that their creative "white ethics" Fi will handle all cases, that it is always possible to persuade by manner of compliments – if not today, then tomorrow. The response they get back is ignored. "Well, today he pushed me away, but tomorrow he may change his mind!" Dear IEEs, with Maxims this does not work. AT ALL. If LSI said "No" – this means tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow, and ten years later. What I mean here is one IEE woman has tried to get close to me exactly in this way, for the duration of three years. I didn't like her, but in her I evoked nothing but enthusiasm and excitement, despite the coldness of my responses to her.
Simple solution, leave. If I meet anyone who treats me in this manner, constantly talking to me and not even paying attention to what I say, I will never spend time with them again.1. The IEE is a "declaring" type, i.e. more inclined to unilaterally talk of the many options that exist out there, while paying little attention to the responses of their conversation partner. Maxim keeps silent, listens, and feels an overload on 1-dimensional perception channel Ne ("Why do I need all these possibilities? I don't need this at all.") – the desire to run away as far as possible from this arises, or simply to make the source of irritation stop talking.
I actually don't even bother explaining for long, the worldviews are so incompatible that I quickly lose the desire to say much. It is funny, with anyone else I'm always ready to enter an argument but not with them3. The LSI becomes annoying for the IEE once he or she starts explaining things, or imposing own rules
One exception: I was once forced to spend too much time with an IEE for a few weeks and then I did get to argue with her a lot; I was basically forced to, she was spreading too much nonsense around that I just totally had to correct. Irritation from both parties kept coming up all the time. And it just could not be resolved. Even though the IEE was sometimes trying to do demonstrative Fe, things were going downhill over time. It was far more terrible overall than any conflicts with EIIs before
But from a distance they are fine. And as long as I don't pay *too much* attention to what they say. Sometimes, if they understand theories well, they can say something useful. Most of the time very much not useful, though.
Yeah...
Also, "Many interesting moments became evident, such as the fact that a sexually attractive partner is encoded in our subconscious, and this partner is close, in their external and behavioral features, to our dual type in socionics. The most "appropriate", the most receptive, and the best behavior, it seems, belongs only to the dual type - however, the vast majority of people aren't aware of this. I will state right away that I do not intend to idealize dual relations. Moreover, my experience + long-term observations and application of socionics in practice have led me to some unexpected, for me, conclusions. About these - later."
What unexpected conclusions are those...?
I'm late to the party but thanks for the translation <3 All of these descriptions were really good to read (the modified type nicknames, wow), but the SEE/ILI descriptions almost made me cry tears of laughter.
Highlights,"inappropriate" comments included:
- "At times a thought came to me: `How can anyone live like this?´" (Actual quote of a random ILE observing an LSI
- "ILI's fine irrational manipulations" (fine? I'll cite a journal)
- "I, as far as I could do it, have imitated the passivity and lethargy of TIM "Balzac", but eventaully my natural orientation of psyche has prevailed, and our relationship has turned into a close approximation of a fight — tiring, taxing, and almost not funny."
- "Hugging an SEE, these is a feeling of holding a very mobile, tight, small animal that constantly twitches and may at any time to jump from your embrace."
They are adorable koala cubs.
- "over time it starts to seem that they don’t actually do anything" (except trying to survive hehe)
- "If you attempt to instigate them, they will start to protest, call you a dictator, and shut off into themselves" (Passive-aggressor is the new pseudoaggressor)
- "all sorts of crucial moments" (sx/sp indeed)
- "`Choke me!´" (Can you see the pattern? ILIs are unconsciously wired to complement SEE's loving koala squeeze)
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