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Thread: Member Questionnaire- Sweet, Short, and Simple :>

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    KanRen's Avatar
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    Member Questionnaire 1 (Lakester)
    .
    Last edited by KanRen; 03-10-2017 at 04:36 AM.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    The vibe I am getting right now is Delta quadra but I wouldn't swear to it. Welcome to the forum.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    Extreme standards for romantic morals
    What are those?

    Another question is about this recurring theme of you being "intimidating" - what does this look like?

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    Found you and your thread cool and interesting.
    Was ready and happy to give compliments and typing advice.
    Started reading.
    Was disappointed.
    Encountered harmful and inappropriate sexist remarks disguised as light jokes.
    Chuckled knowingly, knowing that you know it, too.
    Now calls you out on it.
    Encourages you to become less 1950 for your own and society's good.
    Still offers to give compliments and advice upon elegant apologetic request, then struts away leaving a rainbow trail and flying hearts Chuuu~

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    Well you are obviously aristocratic.

    @Aylen : I would love to hear your arguments for Delta!


    You write that you are intimidating. An explanation on that part would be enlightening.
    Apart from that; you repeatedly mentioned your distrust of people which is ...weird. Maybe it's not the people but your own manipulative behavior and lack respect.


    "The effect of American popular culture on the productivity of the modern man"
    You make big statements on complex issues . That's judgment without further investigation or very shallow research - Te-Hidden-Agenda.


    Your own typing says ENFj - but you are not Fe-Leading:
    You look down on people who are not productive (from your perspective) or who have different values than you.
    I am friends with an LSI and I can tell you that he looks for someone who is more selfless and friendly to people than what you described.


    What characteristics do you admire in people who are more intelligent than you?


    Some will describe your worldview as narrow and outdated, but there have always been people who share your kind of worldview ("society-is-to-blame"-trope) - that does not speak against Ne-Leading
    Interest in health: could be Si-dual-seeking.
    Likes people of few words: Oh boy I know the perfect ISTp for you.


    I go with ENFp.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    @Aylen : I would love to hear your arguments for Delta!
    I was kind of in the zone that day. Not sure why I even remember but I do. Anyway I was going through some threads and posting first impressions. I remember reading the whole post and it just vibed very delta. I didn't look any deeper. I will read again and respond if anything new comes to me.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    Likes people of few words: Oh boy I know the perfect ISTp for you.
    It was originally: "Man of few words, but such words are law".

    How is that ISTp?

    Also, "You look down on people who are not productive (from your perspective) or who have different values than you". Not tolerating different values is not Delta so not IEE.

    For OP, I would not exclude a Se/Ni Logical type, actually but don't want to say yet which one
    Last edited by Myst; 01-08-2017 at 09:58 PM.

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    KanRen's Avatar
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    Woah! Where did time go? TBH, I completely forgot that I posted this.

    I apologize for any of my offensive or blunt statements, and late follow-up/reply. Once I go through the replies, I'll post a more thorough response/update.

    After reading the responses, I am trying to determine if I am an ENTp or ENFp. Additionally, I believe my girlfriend of almost two years is either ISTp or ISFp.
    Last edited by KanRen; 01-08-2017 at 11:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    It was originally: "Man of few words, but such words are law".
    How is that ISTp?

    It was meant to be humorous and to underline my ENFp-guess


    I think we can agree that SLI are not really talkative (except in a trusted circle or one on one).They are reserved in social situations, are really knowledgeable (even haughty) and act like their way is the only rational option. ENFp's need people who can explain things but don't talk too much.


    But yeah - the quote fits other types like LSI as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I was kind of in the zone that day. Not sure why I even remember but I do. Anyway I was going through some threads and posting first impressions. I remember reading the whole post and it just vibed very delta. I didn't look any deeper. I will read again and respond if anything new comes to me.
    All right

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    Default I agree with the following statements.

    I agree with everything below, 100%. So I guess it is safe to assume that I am an ENFp?

    1. Never tell Huxley "you should," "you must" and so on. At best, it will be perceived as a violation of Huxley’s freedom and the underestimation of his abilities. "Do not tell me what to do, and I will not tell you where to go."


    2. If you want him to do something, offer work that is interactive, during which he will be able to interact with others and/or see something new.

    3. If you want your Huxley to take up household chores - help him out, or better yet do them yourself. Believe me, it is much easier to take out the trash yourself in five minutes than to spend half an house removing bits of trash from all over the apartment. While Huxley will be eternally grateful to you.

    4. Don’ be upset with his inconsistency - he is always looking for new experiences, new people and relationships, and likes building castles in the air. Do not look at quantity of his friends - it rarely turns into quality.

    5. If he finds you interesting, he will always find time to meet with you, if not - a thousand reasons not to come.

    6. If Huxley is smiling at you and laughing at everything you say, this does not mean that he is in love with you. He just likes to please people!

    7. Huxley ignores another person usually when he was very offended by him or her, or if he is simply not interested in that person. And most often this happens consciously.

    8. Do not pressure Huxley to give promises. It is necessary to distinguish phrases "I will try, attempt, give it a shot" and "I will certainly do exactly this." If any circumstances change, the promises may also lose their meaning and change.

    9. Huxley does not like gloomy and miserable people if he cannot somehow help them somehow or comfort them. If you need support - he is always ready to become a "knight on a white horse," even if you aren’t friends. But constant whining and bemoaning has a depressing effect on him, and he will run off.

    10. Huxley detests when someone is being unjustly hurt, especially the weak and defenseless, he immediately begins to attack the offender. Therefore, in his presence, try not to attack and offend anyone – otherwise you risk losing his trust and affection.

    11. More often praise Huxley if he did something good or pleasant for you. He will never get tired of hearing compliments, and he will invent all possible efforts to justify your confidence in him.

    12. Under no circumstances make scandals in public! Huxley will never forgive you if you accuse him of something in front of everyone. He will fight back by all means to prove how wrong you are.

    13. You should not lie to Huxley. Even if he pretends that everything is running smoothly, this does not mean that he is not plagued by doubts. "You don’t know that I know that you are lying, and you don’t need to know this ... for the time being."

    14. If Huxley considers you a close friend, don’t ask "Can I hug you, kiss you ...? '. Just do what you want, and Huxley can easily let you know whether he is likes it or not.

    15. Do not rush to fall at his feet, for Huxley likes to win someone over, to surprise them. Before you do anything of this kind, make sure that he truly values you and that he is also invested.

    16. Do not repeat too often, "I love you" – that he sees well himself. A kind, gentle look and a prepared dinner will be enough for him.

    17. Take good care of his health, of his well-being. It is appreciated. If Huxley is warm and cozy, he will surround you with love and joy.

    18. To support Huxley, it is sufficient to say that you're on his side, and those who are against him are spiteful and envious.

    19. Huxley does not remember evil (will commit an offense and forget it) and he is not vindictive, he will not conceal resentment for long. But once you have seriously failed him, he will no longer go to you, considering you an unreliable and untrustworthy person.

    20. Sometimes we Huxleys play. Play not for the public, but for ourselves. It’s just more interesting like this! We like to dream and come up with new ideas, but do not condemn us or accuse us of lying.

    21. It is not true that Huxley likes to talk incessantly. He is just filling pauses in the conversation! Hence don’t be quiet and go mute, you should at least occasionally say "Uh-huh", "Yes, honey, you're absolutely right!” Speaking seriously, Huxley do not like pulling words from their interlocutor if he is not predisposed to the conversation. In this case, it is easier for him to talk of something himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    I agree with everything below, 100%. So I guess it is safe to assume that I am an ENFp?
    No, none of it was strictly specific to IEE. Don't fall victim to the Forer effect.

    I'm not even sure you are Ethics ego tbh

    Can you answer my two questions from earlier?

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    Extreme standards for romantic morals
    My definition of romantic morals is in regards to how courting/relations are initiated. I am relatively conservative in my views. I believe in chivalry and look down upon hook-up culture. I favor monogamy and require emotional attachment for sexual intimacy. Although, once I am emotionally attached, I am very sexual and uninhibited. I do have trust issues, specifically in relationships, due to concerns of infidelity.

    Another question is about this recurring theme of you being "intimidating" - what does this look like?
    I have been told that I am initially intimidating. When first interacting or presenting myself in public, I am silent and somewhat glaring. This is often because I am scanning for a current social hierarchy and I see no benefit in socializing with random public people. I respect my superiors, compete with my equals/weaker, and sympathize for those that are loyal/submissive to me. I am secretive and distrustful of people so I have no interest in sharing personal information in most circumstances. This is also influenced by my large physique and confident gait.

    I truly do not know what specifically makes me ´intimidating´. I have only been told this multiple times by others, so I assume that this is a trait I unconsciously present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    My definition of romantic morals is in regards to how courting/relations are initiated. I am relatively conservative in my views. I believe in chivalry and look down upon hook-up culture. I favor monogamy and require emotional attachment for sexual intimacy. Although, once I am emotionally attached, I am very sexual and uninhibited. I do have trust issues, specifically in relationships, due to concerns of infidelity.


    I have been told that I am initially intimidating. When first interacting or presenting myself in public, I am silent and somewhat glaring. This is often because I am scanning for a current social hierarchy and I see no benefit in socializing with random public people. I respect my superiors, compete with my equals/weaker, and sympathize for those that are loyal/submissive to me. I am secretive and distrustful of people so I have no interest in sharing personal information in most circumstances. This is also influenced by my large physique and confident gait.

    I truly do not know what specifically makes me ´intimidating´. I have only been told this multiple times by others, so I assume that this is a trait I unconsciously present.
    OK well I don't see how this is supposed to be IEE, lol.

    Would you want a totally loyal and submissive partner in a romantic relationship too?

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    squark's Avatar
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    Take a look at LSE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Take a look at LSE.
    This pretty much excludes LSE:

    "Weaknesses:
    - Dislike repetitive busy work"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    This pretty much excludes LSE:

    "Weaknesses:
    - Dislike repetitive busy work"
    No it does not.

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    I do not think so. I have two or three LSE friends. One thing that I have noticed from a female LSE specifically, in regards to stereotypical LSEs... they talk so much if encouraged the opportunity.

    Nothing bad either, often it is constructive and interesting topics. But they can go on for hours talking haha. In summary, I do not see much similarities. Additionally, I become very stressed, depressed, lost of energy, and procrastinate when it comes to busy/repetitive work, which ESTjs often have a strong capacity for.

    I know of many INFjs because I am in a secondary major for game design and product development (artsy fartsy). I do not get along with them. I often become impatient with them and in return, they think I am blunt and inappropriate in my behavior. Sorry to be rude, but I often think that a lot (not all) of INFjs do not fully incorporate themselves in their success, thus not accepting responsibility for their own difficult situations. Instead they say, "why is my life so hard, I do not deserve this?"

    Would you want a totally loyal and submissive partner in a romantic relationship too?
    I do not want a submissive partner. I want a loyal and trustworthy partner, possibly snobby too. During the start of relations, I prefer her to make me work for it, but at the same time provide subtle hints and signs that relations are progressing. I am perfectly satisfied with my SO having their independent interests.

    Basically, I want a person that supports my principles of striving to be a two-person team that values exclusivity, trust, honesty, independence, self-development, and an extreme ideology of us vs. them. The expectations I ask from her, I uphold for myself too.

    Example:
    My girlfriend of almost 2 years is a <I think> ISTp. We are both very jealous people. We try to accommodate each other by deleting our Snapchats and permitting the mutual use of each others' phones voluntarily. This may seem extreme, but for us it significantly eliminates our insecurities and strengthens our trust, in which neither of us are ever hiding anything from one another. In contrast, we each have our own independent interests/hobbies (pet projects).

    Additionally, when she complains or states that she does not like a specific person. I will on purposely decrease my contact with that person and fully support my SO. Regardless of the situation, I will always prioritize the people I trust.

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    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Take a look at LSE.
    I was considering LSE as well along with LIE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    This pretty much excludes LSE:

    "Weaknesses:
    - Dislike repetitive busy work"
    LSE likes to keep busy but I'm not sure they like meaningless repetitive 'busy work' but then again, most people don't. Maybe they tolerate it more than some types though.


    Anyway, I would say Te lead. Common threads of productivity, business sense, personal and career development, you see yourself and others see you as intelligent, self-confident, and maybe a bit intimidating. The latter could be used to describe Se lead but I don't think Se lead is likely based on your response to the war and militaries question. The way you responded to that suggests strong but not valued Se. Also your response to the question "what makes you cry" -- seeing the weak suffering, wanting to care for them. It could be Si creative at work. The valuing of comfort.

    Also your response to the health/medicine question was interesting. Your strong interest in maintaining your health could definitely point at Si creative but then again, I've known Si PoLR types who have been health fanatics, as a way of overcompensating maybe- like they don't know what's enough or sufficient because it isn't a strong function. Also you mentioned about being rather superficial when it comes to appearance. I see this more common in Se valuing types who want to 'impact' others based on the image their appearance creative.

    Interestingly one of your values you mentioned was Time. Now this could be socionics Ni valuing but it could be also suggestive of Ni PoLR in the LSE if you are always concerned about your time management skills, worried about having enough time, etc.

    There were a couple of things that could suggest Ni creative-
    *Having long conversations about future prospects and forecast for humanity from a moral and scientific perspective. I would see the future prospects as Ni, the scientific perspective being Ni/Te and the moral perspective as the valued Fi.

    *Interest in biology- the caring for organisms as Si creative, the scientific aspect as Te, but the planning and predictions part would be more Ni related.

    *Your response to your relationship with society:
    "I feel extremely emotionally isolated and mentally different to that of society. As a whole, I see us as a once successful race, but seem to have loss sight in our moral purpose and existence as a species.
    Aspects or activities that effect the ideology of society as a whole, in which results in a different outlook that has negative effects long term due to growing inefficiency. Modern popular culture, such as 'YOLO', I believe it encourages unproductive and degrading behavior among the younger populations."

    --I see lots of Te/Ni in here. Where society is headed towards in the future, the growing inefficiency and also the valued Fi- the loss of moral purpose.


    So in conclusion, I'm not quite clear if you're more LSE or LIE but Te/Fi valuing is apparent and Te lead seems clear.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    No it does not.
    Provide reasoning, then, instead of just saying "noo".


    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    I was considering LSE as well along with LIE.
    I was considering LIE myself lol, where I said possible Se/Ni Logical type.


    LSE likes to keep busy but I'm not sure they like meaningless repetitive 'busy work' but then again, most people don't. Maybe they tolerate it more than some types though.
    The point is, this sentence from OP is the pov of someone with weak Sensing. So unless OP wanted to emulate something like that, it pretty much is a strong sign of weak Si.

    LSE with Ni PoLR won't see all repetitive work as meaningless. I don't see how this categorical statement would come from an LSE.


    Anyway, I would say Te lead. Common threads of productivity, business sense, personal and career development, you see yourself and others see you as intelligent, self-confident, and maybe a bit intimidating.
    I wouldn't say intelligence or self-confidence has anything to do with Te.

    But, sure, I did notice a lot of Te themes. Some of it quite Gamma though it overall looks a bit mixed in terms of quadra values superficially (Beta-Gamma-Delta... which is common, hence my not typing off quadra values much).

    The very technical language tipped me off to Logical type originally. Assuming ofc that this is natural to OP.

    A lot of themes of weak Sensing, at the same time somewhat like Se valuing. And overall I don't see OP as really "here" like Sensing types, goes off into "far away" and "idealistic" notions way too easily.

    LIE-Te seems fine. @KanRen


    A couple notes:

    The latter could be used to describe Se lead but I don't think Se lead is likely based on your response to the war and militaries question. The way you responded to that suggests strong but not valued Se.
    Ehh that question isn't good to decide much about Se.

    It was an Intuitive answer - seeing beyond the physical. (Where it talks about swaying things big without physical methods.)


    Also your response to the question "what makes you cry" -- seeing the weak suffering, wanting to care for them. It could be Si creative at work. The valuing of comfort.
    That was Fi mainly with the focus on suffering of beings. Not specifically talking about comfort as main priority.
    Last edited by Myst; 01-10-2017 at 12:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Provide reasoning, then, instead of just saying "noo".
    No. I don't care about proving anything to anyone. If OP is interested he'll look into it and decide for himself. And based on his follow-up post to my suggestion he's already eliminated LSE as something he wants to look into. So, what exactly would be the point? Wait, no, don't answer that, it was rhetorical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    No.
    Lol, I expected this answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    No. I don't care about proving anything to anyone. If OP is interested he'll look into it and decide for himself. And based on his follow-up post to my suggestion he's already eliminated LSE as something he wants to look into. So, what exactly would be the point? Wait, no, don't answer that, it was rhetorical.
    OK I see you added all this after I replied to you.

    My point was, if we disregard the fundamentals of the system (Socionics here) then there isn't much of a point of using it at all.

    What was specifically disregarded here was how Sensing as a preference is defined. Now, if the issue is about how OP conveyed his thoughts, that's a different matter, but here his statement seemed pretty unambiguous.

    Of course OP decides their typing for themselves in the end, hopefully well-informed with regard both to the Socionics system and to their own self-image.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    OK I see you added all this after I replied to you.

    My point was, if we disregard the fundamentals of the system (Socionics here) then there isn't much of a point of using it at all.

    What was specifically disregarded here was how Sensing as a preference is defined. Now, if the issue is about how OP conveyed his thoughts, that's a different matter, but here his statement seemed pretty unambiguous.

    Of course OP decides their typing for themselves in the end, hopefully well-informed with regard both to the Socionics system and to their own self-image.
    I don't think you understand what the term "busy work" means. It is things given to you that have no purpose whatsoever and are merely done to keep a person occupied. You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who actually enjoys doing things that further no goals, have no purpose, accomplish nothing, particularly a Te leading type. After all, if you want to get down to the socionics fundamentals as you say then here's a basic definition:
    Quote Originally Posted by wikisocion
    Te Te Extraverted Logic: efficiency, method, mechanism, knowledge, work, reason in motion, direction of activity into its most logical course of action, "logic of actions", utilitarianism, expediency, benefit
    So doing things that have zero benefit wouldn't exactly be a strong point of any Te leading type, would it? I feel like these things shouldn't have to be explained as it's part of the basic theory, but nuances of phrase can of course be misinterpreted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I don't think you understand what the term "busy work" means.
    You guessed wrong - my point that I already explained to chips in an earlier post above is that different people see different things as "busy work". Low Si types have a problem with repetitive tasks, which is what OP talked about. For these people it's easy to call them "busy work" while another person would disagree since they'd actually find a point in the job.


    It is things given to you that have no purpose whatsoever and are merely done to keep a person occupied. You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who actually enjoys doing things that further no goals, have no purpose, accomplish nothing, particularly a Te leading type. After all, if you want to get down to the socionics fundamentals as you say then here's a basic definition: So doing things that have zero benefit wouldn't exactly be a strong point of any Te leading type, would it? I feel like these things shouldn't have to be explained as it's part of the basic theory, but nuances of phrase can of course be misinterpreted.
    I don't see the need to point out basic theory here. See above.

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    No. Just fucking stop. You will go on for days if I let you trying to find a way to be right and I seriously don't have the patience for it. I gave a suggestion for the OP, he thought about it and discarded it, end of story. I have nothing more to say on this.

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    After reading - IEE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    No. Just fucking stop. You will go on for days if I let you trying to find a way to be right and I seriously don't have the patience for it. I gave a suggestion for the OP, he thought about it and discarded it, end of story. I have nothing more to say on this.
    Shrug. As I already said in a previous post, it's eventually up to OP to see what their type is, sure.

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    Well, I do appreciate Myst's and Squark's extensive assistance in helping me determine my Socionics personality type. I apologize to Squark if it seemed that I quickly dismissed her recommendation of LSE.

    After further evaluation and research, I most identify with ENTJ-Te. Additionally, this is what I have tested as in MBTI. Below, I have pasted the male descriptions for ENTj/LIE and ESTj/LSE and made notes in how I identify to each paragraph.
    Last edited by KanRen; 01-11-2017 at 01:57 AM.

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    Default LIE Comparison

    In youth, LIE male is practically always thin and mobile. He's frequently attractive and flirtatious, as well as charismatic, resourceful, ingenious and mysterious. His dressing style is very simple; he prefers neutral-colored and plain clothing e.g. jeans and a t-shirt. Only when the LIE male grows older and achieves a higher position in society does he start to wear suits and the like. Commonly has short hair, because its easier to manage.
    I am physically thin/fit. I am mysterious and resourceful. I am not fully aware if I am flirtatious or charismatic.
    My dressing style is not simple, but monotonous. I always wear a long-sleeve button down, with a matching vest over it, blue jeans, and white Adidas shoes. I own 5 pairs of the same dark-blue 36 X 34 elastic jeans. I wear my two lucky gold rings and family gold chains. I always slick back my hair with bathroom soap. This is my everyday-winter wardrobe, regardless of location or event. I hate coats, I feel constricted.


    LIE male rarely keeps still. He rushes right by forgetting to greet you, which is not surprising considering the speed at which he is moving. In such situations you may only take note of his elongated nose and protruding ears.
    This seems accurate. When I was a child, my family and friends gave me the nickname, "Kangeroon". As my real name is Cameron and I am 'always bouncing around'.


    Despite his high mobility, in business LIEs are very organized people. In childhood one can already notice that they are very capable; they quickly grasp the material taught to them, and generally do well in school. Love to engage in sports; prefer type of sport that does not require sheer application of force, but instead good reaction time. Speed almost puts them under a spell. Jumping from a helicopter onto a snow-covered slope and then making a high-speed descent on skis - this is quite in their style. They love to feel adrenaline circulating in their bloodstream.
    I hated school, but yes I rarely got worst than a 3.85 unweighted GPA, all AP courses. I love volleyball, martial arts, and somewhat basketball. I enjoy the feeling of an adrenaline rush.

    But in day-to-day, mundane matters, LIE males are poorly coordinated - at home they may run into a door or a corner. Poor coordination is augmented by their absent-mindedness. They can be thinking about work and miss their stop, or forget to turn on the washing machine or turn off the water in sink.
    Yes, I admit I am clumsy and absent-minded. These traits are quite accurate for me.


    LIE males have many acquaintances. They are enthusiastic and sociable, like to joke and laugh, thus in social gatherings they are indispensable. With their quick-witted, funny remarks they can all evening long entertain those attending.
    I do have a lot of acquaintances. I do not have much "close friends". I rarely go to social gatherings for sake of purely socializing, as I view it unproductive. Although, during team sports or mandatory social events, I often try to display a humorous persona.


    A woman does not need to devote time thinking how to get acquainted with LIE man. He himself will go through the trouble. First, he has the remarkable ability to see everything around him, so that if you appear somewhere next, he will immediately note you. Second, he will readily show initiative (which is actually what he frequently does) - and you are already acquainted!
    This I am a bit unsure. I often do have difficulty initiating contact with females that I find attractive, even more so if they are introverted. Although, if I am assured that the specific female shares mutual feelings, I am glad to initiate. This could also be influenced by my traditional Chinese upbringing, I was not permitted to date when I was younger.


    From this point on you don't need to strain yourself - because if LIE man has selected you, he will not disappear, he will himself make calls and come to visit you. But so that he finds it interesting to spend time together, you will need to concern with. LIE man primarily needs decency, faithfulness, and kind treatment.
    I will definitely do this, given that I know that the other person enjoys my company and 'likes' me. I highly value faithfulness. Although, I assume that this is pretty universal.


    Don't take note if sometimes he may seem somewhat rude. In interaction with people he is indeed clumsy, at times making offensive remarks, other times taking offense over something. Sometimes LIE male is prone to falling into depressed state. This means that he doesn't have a real, worthwhile job or project where he could realize himself to the maximum. What can you do, everyone has their faults, but he also has many other good characteristics.
    I agree with 100%. I constantly say, "I am just joking" after stating a possibly offensive joke (see my original post above), as a precautionary, in case my interlocutor takes offense. I did suffer from a brief state of medically diagnosed depression during my sophomore year in high school. I was overloaded with studies and felt that my life served no purpose, just more studies.


    Also you need to know that he is not the kind who solves problems "with fists", with brute force. This is a relatively soft, even a bit indecisive man, who avoids power collisions.
    Yeah, I prefer not to get into unorganized fights or public disputes. Especially, in regards to someone that I do not care about. In contrast, I enjoy competition and secretly deceiving/defeating my opponents. But I do not want the public to know, as this would damage my credibility.


    From life of LIE male: "One time we went on vacation with my husband. We rented a room on first floor. Suddenly in the middle of the night I hear that someone is climbing through our window. I've gotten frightened, started to wake him up. When I managed to wake him up and explain what is happening, he turned around and politely asked" Excuse me, sir, what did you need here?"

    As a husband, the LIE is little concerned with everyday chores and upkeep duties. He is not interested in thinking about creating comfort at home. He won't devote a lot of time to taking care of food and his (and your) health. It would be best if you take care of all such matters.
    I agree. I have no interest in comfort or repetitive tasks. Actually, I take pleasure in putting myself in difficult positions, such as not taking any medication/pills when sick or in pain. I feel accomplished and proud to know that my body can endure anything.

    With children a man of this type is friendly, but prefers older children, who are much more interesting for him to be around. As for younger kids, their presence at home is always accompanies with some kind of physiological issues - damp pampers, gases and burps, and this LIE male does not like. Thus take the sanitation matters under your own responsibility. Ask him to care of small children only infrequently and only when it is urgent. May be this is not very comfortable ... but console yourself with the fact that it is so fun to be around him! And also that he will always come up with ways to make a lot of money.
    I have not experienced this. Although, when I am with younger children, it often results in me watching a children's movie/TV show with them on my lap. Sometimes, I narrate and pause the movie/show, so that they can understand the perspective and objects within the plot. Example: "What type of train is Thomas?" "Locomotive" "Good job Khelen! "
    Additionally, I do not feel strong attachment to children, as they are not my blood/children.

    I do want a lot of money... hehe.


    LIE males who have been endowed not only with intellect but also with organizer talent, prefer to keep a stable job where they usually achieve the highest positions, become directors and business owners. Other LIE males who have more of a hunter ardor, strive to work in consulting or as crisis managers, where they also become very successful.

    Without work LIE turns sour, life becomes boring for him. Imagining a man of this type without having something to do can be done only theoretically. This is because LIE male usually leaves the company several months before problems arise, usually to a better salary. He will never be in low demand: with his capabilities and his connections, he has a wide selection of places where he can realize his talent and passion for work.
    I love working in diverse, challenging, and variable environments. I can say that when I played multiplayer strategy video games, such as Tribal Wars. I would often sell information to enemies or assemble my personal group when I felt that my current team is degrading.

    Difficulties with LIE male arise when he gets into bouts of formalism (as home as well as at work). This usually occurs when something is not going well. His dissatisfied and grouchy demeanor betray his inner tension. Then come the accusations: "I don't understand what you're telling me" or "First explain to me what for are we doing this" or "Formulate this more concisely and concretely".
    A previous rant from me on another forum:
    No. What was annoying was him beating around the bush. Just say why DJ removed his YouTube Channel. I don't want to be forced-fed another theory of 'mana' during a video about another psychological theory. Just tell me the factual reason of the original subject...

    This video should have been a 2 minute clean-cut explanation of DJ's resignation. The end. Not a 13 minute ramble of him trying to put emphasize on an obviously typed speech on his laptop as he tries to advertise and justify his own ideologies. JUST TELL ME THE FACTS, FUCK YOUR OPINIONS.
    In such moments, it is difficult to find common language with LIE male. Try to change his state, do something that he understands how positively you're predisposed towards him. When he calms down, after some time you can continue the discussion this time around hopefully with more success.
    The only way to 'change my state' of mind is for a person to show a very sad expression (cry). I immediately feel bad and become sympathetic/apologize. Although, I think a lot of people would respond like this...

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    Default LSE Comparison

    I bolded the statements/characteristics that I agree with.

    You can recognize SHTIRLITS by his confident, practical demeanor. He has a courageous, strained bearing, usually engages in sports and takes care of his appearance. Men of this type as a rule prefer short haircuts. Their facial features are distinct and symmetrical. Their gaze looks solid. SHTIRLITS makes an impression of respectable, imposing man, always dressed well and shaved cleanly. Sometimes you can meet SHTIRLITS dressed in looser clothing such as sweaters, but he looks most natural in a tie and a suit.


    SHTIRLITS imparts a solid impression at first acquaintance, and seems benevolent and affable. However, as soon as conversation comes to work and distribution of tasks, he converts into a serious, organized, determined manager, and his expression turns from smiling to austere.

    In childhood, boy of this type is solid, clever, and thorough. He acquires knowledge slowly but surely. Anything that was put into his head will remain there forever, but the process of mastering new material happens slowly for him. This child is more practically oriented, and therefore theoretical studies often don't find a response in his soul. However, where it is necessary to do experiments or make something by hands, his interest will have no bounds. He loves seeing his work producing direct concrete results, and will not simply occupy himself with esoteric material.

    Any subjects can be covered by a child of this type. He is assiduous and has a well developed conscientiousness, which this allows him to study well, especially if his studies are necessary for something.
    I completely disagree with this! I can not study material that I cannot utilize for future implementation.
    Example: In high school, I often paid other students to complete tedious work for me. Such as my Forensics science class, or English reading report about a fictional story. I would cut/modify the phrases out, and sell modified versions of my HW to other students so that I did not lose money/broke even. I would replace all the verbs with 'blanks' so that my customers would be required to state their own verb. I never tried to make money from this or increase the size of my customer base as it only further increased the threat of being caught. I only wanted to break even, and make my time efficient by outsourcing unneeded processes.

    Because they have good coordination, boys of this type typically succeed in sports, especially in ones that require good reaction time and high speed.

    SHTIRLITS is also very sociable in childhood as well as in adulthood. He participates readily in what goes on around him and strives to be useful and helpful in his own manner.

    A story from real life: "When I worked as a camp leader, there was an unpleasant incident that occurred with a girl from neighboring camp. She went to go for a walk in the fields with a guy from the camp, and it ended such that the he nearly raped her. As soon as I learned about this, I immediately found her as she has returned from the field in a stressed state - and tried to provide her with help. In these cases, it is needed that the person calms down. Therefore it is needed that he or she relaxes. I did everything that was required: let her talk her heart out, then made her hot tea and directed her to the bed."

    SHTIRLITS is not much interested in people, but friendship is very important for him. Moreover, he does not shy from participating in large social gatherings. Especially if the group gathers according to some tradition or holiday, such as birthday, anniversary, international women's day or a recurring fishing trip. Even if the meeting does not happen on his territory, SHTIRLITS, as a rule, takes management into his own hands. In such events, all the toasts will be said, quality food will be offered, and all the corresponding jokes and anecdotes will be told. SHTIRLITS willingly participates in the celebration, consciously or unconsciously helping to organize it.
    I disagree with this. I only serve as the 'leader' if the specific subject is important to me, or there is no possible leader present. Without this, I am perfectly fine working in the background and watching. I will never subordinate myself to anyone that I deem as unqualified. I maintain my right of independence at all times.

    The kind of woman that he marries he will select for himself. It is difficult to influence or manipulate him in this respect, because he is a person of exceptionally sound reason who solidly stands on ground with his own two feet. He can only be subtly and delicately directed towards a decision, which he will make after he thinks everything through. Most of all, he values decency, delicacy of manner, good upbringing, and finesse of the soul. The most valuable that he can offered is good relations. Specially, the ability of a woman to maintain good relations with him, as well as with his friends, evokes a flow of warm feelings in him and appreciation for her.

    Men of this type prescribe to traditional values, such as home, family, children. They try to attain a solid position for themselves. If SHTIRLITS has married, then he most certainly has not done it for a short duration.

    As a husband, he is one of the most reliable and most thoughtful men. Not only does he provide for his family, but he also worries about the household chores and matters. At his home you will not find burnt out lamps or broken appliances. Being a designer by nature, SHTIRLITS will create a fashionable and elegant interior for his home that will rival the work of a professional.

    Because this man is a food gourmand, he also seriously and responsibly relates to food. Thus, try to ensure that he has quality and diversity in his meals. Sometimes he himself with pleasure will cook for his family, especially on holidays, and it will be always very tasty.
    I rarely ever cook. I eat the same meal every day: teriyaki salmon with peas and broccoli, dark chocolate, and fat-free milk. In regards to food, I rarely explore.

    In your conversations with your LSE husband, try to forgo themes connected with future prospects. Do not discuss with him, how he sees the future of your relations, when he wants to have children, how long it will take to purchase new condominium or summer house. Curiosity may get the better of you, but such conversations are distasteful to him. Although he will take on a clever look and mysteriously keep silent, you must know that he and himself does not know when all this will happen. In such cases, what can he say to you? He does not want to drop his merit in your eyes!
    I am the opposite. I enjoy future planning very much, in all aspects and subjects. It makes me feel more confident and direction about our goals and how we plan to achieve them.

    As fathers, male LSEs are strict and demanding, but patiently train their children to appreciate order and organization. They are also not indifferent to the successes of their children in school. He will without fail ensure that his son or daughter receive higher education after finishing school.

    Bossy and responsible, SHTIRLITS has a talent for keeping up the ideal order in his house as well as in his workplace. He also loves and knows how to show care for his close ones, as well as for his co-workers or subordinates. If you need qualified advice concerning topics such as health or food or home maintenance, ask SHTIRLITS. But only during work breaks, because when he is working it is best not to distract him.

    If SHTIRLITS is your boss (men and women of this type commonly rise to management positions), then from you he will demand that you correctly follow the procedures. He always knows what needs to be done, and how to do it, and is ready to explain to others what responsibilities lie under their jurisdiction. However, he is often too direct and may sound rough. With this he risks to offend his co-workers and subordinates. In hearts, can even yell at someone. So if you don't want to have any trouble with him, simply do not give this much attention. This is simply how he is.
    I value efficiency and results over 'procedure'. But I do not want anyone threatening or jeopardizing the project or purpose of our intention. Thus, there is a limitation in what I will permit.

    Behind circumstantiality of SHTIRLITS, there is always a need to bring order, first in his thoughts, and only then take action. Thus, first provide him with required information, then give him time to absorb the conditions of the problem. Most importantly, don't hurry him, don't knock him from his course by bringing additional information, don't disturb him while he is thinking. Order in everything for SHTIRLITS is an absolutely necessary thing. And remember - no hurry and no fussing!
    I am rarely impulsive. Additionally, even then its not impulsive actions that will have long-term effects. It is calculated impulsivity. There's your oxymoron!

    If you, however, have managed to knock him off his track, then wait for reprimands corroborated by formal logic. You will receive them in full. "On what basis have you decided that you can do this? What facts or documents that confirm your assertions?" or something of this kind. If things have come to this, don't argue, you will not succeed in convincing him in such moments. Postpone the conversation until later time.
    I prefer to resolve confusion/disagreement immediately. I hate putting things off.

    In professional sense, SHTIRLITS is suitable for work practically anywhere where work requires realistic knowledge, high qualification, and that implies responsibility. They make for excellent architects, designers, pharmacists, surgeons, stomatologists, businessmen, chemists, physics, publishers, and so forth. But it is best that they do not engage in psychology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    Well, I do appreciate Myst's and Squark's extensive assistance in helping me determine my Socionics personality type. I apologize to Squark if it seemed that I quickly dismissed his recommendation of LSE.

    After further evaluation and research, I most identify with ENTJ-Te. Additionally, this is what I have tested as in MBTI. Below, I have pasted the male descriptions for ENTj/LIE and ESTj/LSE and made notes in how I identify to each paragraph.
    I'm glad if it helped.

    And don't worry, I don't think @squark took it personally that you didn't agree with LSE, she just had a beef with me, not with you.

    P.S. I glanced at your LIE/LSE comparison. Seems LIE enough over LSE. Had to laugh at that thing with you outsourcing the tedious parts of homework and then breaking even.
    Last edited by Myst; 01-11-2017 at 12:19 AM.

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    @squark, actually, that reminds me; I don't get what you took so personally, hence the shrug earlier. Idk what you said "fucking stop" about, either, but it's ridiculous that you got upset about a simple logical argument. Now end of story from my end too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    Well, I do appreciate Myst's and Squark's extensive assistance in helping me determine my Socionics personality type. I apologize to Squark if it seemed that I quickly dismissed his recommendation of LSE.
    Not at all, I was irritated with Myst, not you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    This might clarify:
    Haha, you are the fourth person on this forum recently who brings up this typing for me.

    Anyway, it's true that I'd be able to keep up the argument if we continued , and only strong arguments work for me, but if you are not into it, just say that instead of taking it so personally, simple as that.
    Last edited by Myst; 01-11-2017 at 05:48 PM.

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    Could I be an LII/INTj? I relate to a lot of the LII descriptions regarding the male and subtypes.

    TBH, I think more so than the LIE or LSE.
    Last edited by KanRen; 01-12-2017 at 06:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    Could I be an LII/INTj? I relate to a lot of the LII descriptions regarding the male and subtypes.

    TBH, I think more so than the LIE or LSE.
    The main problem with descriptions and identifying with them is that the things you relate to may not be directly connected to type, or only loosely so. The way you describe yourself: intimidating, initiative-taking and so on don't sound very LII and there are several possibilities for why you identify with the description - among them that you actually are LII and your self-description was somehow misleading, or that you are identifying with parts of the description that could fit other types just as well, and etc. SubT made a test that I like quite a lot and seems to do a pretty good job of sorting out what matters and is type-related from what isn't. You can find it here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Socionics-Test Also, sometimes looking at the information elements in isolation can clarify things.

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    You can try it the other way around and analyze (and rank) your intertype relations by typing others. That way you can eliminate type possibilities.


    That means you have to get out of your own head and focus more on others behavior (I' not trying to offend you we are really bad at observing ourselves clearly) and you will need time. Confidently typing others always needs time and practice.

    Mostly people feel confortable in relations of Duality, Identical, Mirror, Activation, Illusionary and Semi-Duality.

    When you are not comfortable with someone - why? What is missing?
    -->no help for your weak functions , irritation with Polr
    When you cannot help someone -why? How does you approach not benefit the other person? What would you need to do instead (but cannot)?
    -->for example: when you are not LII you cannot imitate Ti-leading and Ne-creative for an ESE forever
    ...


    If you are already doing the above you could try this:


    Another way is to film yourself while talking (when you are relaxed. Talk about something you find interesting. Don't think to much. "Be natural")
    Then compare you body language to other sociotypes.
    Yes, talking to a camera feels stupid.


    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...es-with-Videos
    Last edited by Cosmic Teapot; 01-12-2017 at 04:22 PM.

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    Yes, so far it seems intertype relations is the most reliable method to determine my true personality type as I am way to wishy-washy regarding my own characteristics.

    Like I stated earlier, I do not get along at all with INFjs. I tried to socialize with a few INFjs today, it went horribly. Definitely was not semi-duality.

    I will take that test once I have time this weekend. Lol filming myself... uhhh I am going have to think about that one. I honestly think my weakest aspect of my personality is my paranoia, cynical views, and trust issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    paranoia, cynical views, and trust issues.
    So what speaks against ISTj?

    (Sorry if you already mentioned that somewhere.)

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