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Thread: Member Questionnaire- Sweet, Short, and Simple :>

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    Could I be an LII/INTj? I relate to a lot of the LII descriptions regarding the male and subtypes.

    TBH, I think more so than the LIE or LSE.
    Anything significant that did not fit? How about the Se PoLR parts?

    I would only see LII working if you portrayed yourself in a way different from how you really are.



    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    Yes, so far it seems intertype relations is the most reliable method to determine my true personality type as I am way to wishy-washy regarding my own characteristics.

    Like I stated earlier, I do not get along at all with INFjs. I tried to socialize with a few INFjs today, it went horribly. Definitely was not semi-duality.

    I will take that test once I have time this weekend. Lol filming myself... uhhh I am going have to think about that one. I honestly think my weakest aspect of my personality is my paranoia, cynical views, and trust issues.
    How did it go so bad with the EIIs? Describe more about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    So what speaks against ISTj?
    Lol I don't see any of that specific to LSI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Lol I don't see any of that specific to LSI.
    that wasn't the question. Let him write his own answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    that wasn't the question. Let him write his own answers.
    My answer does not stand in the way of him answering to your question, at all. Since he could still be LSI regardless of that. I simply noticed you associated from those things to LSI right away and I don't think that's right.

    Btw, I do think your earlier post on interactions with other people would be quite helpful if OP thought through those questions. Much more helpful for typing overall than guessing at types from 1-2 characteristics because that just leads to jumping around the 16 types never ending up anywhere.

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    Apologies for late reply, I am going have to postpone this thread.

    I personally have to resolve current issues that are having significant emotional and mental effects on me. This aspect is likely making it more difficult for me to accurately determine my type.

    I will return back to this thread once I have completed my independent research, resolved the issues, and achieved a more stable mentality. I will likely be back in late January, right before Chinese New Years.

    Thanks for all the help and I will be considering every input.
    -KanRen

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    LSE probably

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    Apologies for late reply, I am going have to postpone this thread.

    I personally have to resolve current issues that are having significant emotional and mental effects on me. This aspect is likely making it more difficult for me to accurately determine my type.

    I will return back to this thread once I have completed my independent research, resolved the issues, and achieved a more stable mentality. I will likely be back in late January, right before Chinese New Years.

    Thanks for all the help and I will be considering every input.
    -KanRen
    Sorry to hear that, I wish you all the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    Apologies for late reply, I am going have to postpone this thread.

    I personally have to resolve current issues that are having significant emotional and mental effects on me. This aspect is likely making it more difficult for me to accurately determine my type.

    I will return back to this thread once I have completed my independent research, resolved the issues, and achieved a more stable mentality. I will likely be back in late January, right before Chinese New Years.

    Thanks for all the help and I will be considering every input.
    -KanRen
    No worries. Good luck!

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    Well my situation was quite quick, everything worked out faster than expected

    After my independent research, I really think I am an ESTp-Logical Subtype. Thoughts?

    Below I have pasted the male description and logical sub-type description of what I agree/identify with in bold.
    Last edited by KanRen; 01-20-2017 at 03:22 AM.

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    Even if the male Zhukov is thin and slender (though this is rare), nevertheless he looks like a well grounded person who solidly stands on his two feet. His demeanor gives off an impression of a steady, large person. He moves slowly but naturally and with confidence. His judgements sound solid and substantiated.
    Usually male SLEs have short or slightly grown out hair and dress neutrally and plainly e.g. in a football shirt, sweater and jogging bottoms. Older male SLEs will often occupy managerial roles in organizations and firms, and thus tend to wear suits and neckties.

    Male Zhukovs are usually endowed with healthy dose of practicality. They are strategically-minded and generally have good skills of observation. They have no problem with assuming responsibility. As a result, they nearly always find themselves in positions of leadership. Before you can make ends and tails of a situation yourself, you will have already received clear commands from the male Zhukov on subjects ranging from where to get shovels and rakes to clean the backyard, to who will chop the wood and make fire, to how to organize your business and with which firm you should make a contract.

    Male SLEs are clever and talented, and they have a healthy sense of humor (not always the appropriate kind). They exude the presence of a powerful individual, confident in himself. He just enters the room and already the company becomes more lively, from all sides jokes are made and accompanied by explosions of laughter - it is as if he holds the attention of the entire group.

    When male Zhukov arrives at his workplace his employees liven up and work starts getting done. He energizes others; people become more mobile, productive and cheerful in his presence. At the same time, nobody wants to fall under his heavy hand and become the target for to his decimating criticism.

    Only the foolish and the brave dare to encroach upon the male Zhukov's territory, be it his office table or his seat on a subway car. His territory encompasses his house, his car, his chair, his cup, his pen, and many other of his things. Man of this type is aware of prestige. They appreciate the finer things in life and are willing to spend money on them. Everything that belongs to him will always be of top quality, bigger or better in some other ways. With no doubt one can assume that most of the big expensive cars driven on the roads are owned by male Zhukovs. "Owner" is a suitable title for male Zhukov.

    At the same time male Zhukovs are warriors at heart and have little understanding for material, as well as spiritual, excesses. They frequently find themselves in the army where they may progress up the ranks and make excellent generals. A relaxed, stagnant way of life is not for male Zhukov. They are very good at living minimalistically, with only the most basic amenities and supplies. They happily rid themselves of things they believe to be unnecessary.

    An example from life: Young father SLE went hiking with his two sons for a week. The route was laid out to the north along wild, desolate area. Because they were gathering in a hurry, they just threw whatever food was at hand into their backpacks. After 2 days, they realized that there wasn't enough food to last the week, and that the nearest populated area was 2-3 days away. So that the children didn't starve, the father went without food for the rest of the journey.

    Male SLE is often engaged in competing to accomplish something. His actions are aimed at having large scale implications. Despite their combative attitude, SLE's career prospects aren't limited to business or the army. They often take the role of the ingenious scientist, directing a research group to complete a given project. Due to the SLE's boiling energy, they're frequently pioneers of science and technology. Their systematic thinking, wide worldview, ability to quickly adapt to changing circumstances and embrace that which is novel, as well as their resoluteness, readiness to take responsibility, and skills of risk assessment prove that the SLE is perfectly capable in this field.


    Male SLEs are frequently both direct in speech and coarse in their manners. Through this they can commit many blunders in their relations with other people without realizing it. Because of their awareness of power dynamics as well as their strong drive, they often manage to simply break through the situation without harming their interests in any way. If someone mentions to SLE about scheming or manipulation behind his back, he will brush it off and say something like "being afraid of wolves you'll never go to the forest". The SLE won't give attention to such small matters. However, if the SLE sees suspicious or dishonorable behavior in an individual, he will without second thought say it directly.

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    Appearance

    The logical subtype constructs an impression of quiet force and confidence for themselves. They are rational and sequential in affairs; hardworking and hardy. Usually appear cool, sustained and collected, however, in moments of irritation they express their fury in demonstratively sharp, absolute gestures. Within a quiet atmosphere they are kind and polite, while keeping the interlocutor at a distance. Their humor is sharp, sometimes rude, and they bare a quick, mistrustful glare from under their eyebrows. They’re kind but also serious and guarded. Their gait and gestures appear harmonious, smooth and precise. Tends to dress rather monotonously, however, from time to time can also clothe themselves brightly, even extravagantly. Appreciate quality in apparel and often creates many outfits from a few articles. Thus they show concern for both their behaviour and appearance; though they often seem cold and inaccessible they themselves try to appear proper, equal and benevolent, while maintaining their advantages.

    Character

    Steady and sustained: trying not to lose his equanimity under all circumstances. Reserved and polite in his statements, but can sometimes flare up. Very sorry when it comes out of himself in front of strangers.Authoritative, serious, has a well developed sense of self-esteem. He prefers to talk about what feels competent. Uses formal or well-tested sources of information. New theories, untested practices, hypotheses and assumptions do not trust.Interested in laws and regulations, is able to maintain good documentation. If you turn to him for advice, delves into the details of the case and gives specific advice.Reasonable, says a confident tone, convincing evidence. Very practical, does not like theories and inappropriate actions. In contact with strangers through indirect questions clarifies their position in society, communication, and the possibility of looking for land on which it can come together to solve common business interests.This is a man of action rather than reflection, and when the time comes to respond, he immediately focused under the changed circumstances, boldly goes to the risk, well-weighed all the chances and not losing sight of their interests.Enthusiastically received for a new job. He likes to act boldly, risking "on a major," prepared for this carefully and in detail.Rational, pragmatic, and hardworking. Very logical and practical in business. Punctual and obligatory, demanding to themselves and waiting for the same from others. Monitors the quality of everything. Do not forgive schlock and negligence. Effectiveness assesses not worth the effort, but on the final result.He lives by reason, it puts the above personal feelings, because of what might inadvertently offend his interlocutor, not giving any importance to this.Do not demonstrative, but he likes to emphasize the case for his services. Proud, if everything in life is seeking its own.Mobilized in advance in order to overcome future obstacles, having considered all the risks ahead of the current situation. Always a good feel for the real situation and is able to benefit from it. Knows how to properly arrange the people to do things, well-evaluate their business skills. Difficult to understand and less confidently assess the prospects of affairs and relations.The authoritarian and strong-willed person, but if needed, can be flexible in communication, even to go on temporary assignment for the final goal. Understands the importance of material incentives and knows how to use them, without losing their benefits. Showing kindness to others and friendliness, but in matters strictly requires unity and unanimity.Bored, if no use to his abilities, and if he is forced to follow through on something that he had lost interest or does not constitute for him a practical interest. Only a new experience, and frequent change of the lift of his vitality.Has to attract people attention and specific services. In his heart a little bit suspicious, distrustful and suspicious. Afraid of dirty tricks and treachery of those trusts. Occasionally prone to fall into pessimism and melancholy.Thinking about their problems, especially personal agenda, trying not to spend them in others.In moments of despair, in need of understanding, sympathy and consolation, but because of the distrust is often not decided to be frank. Often resorting to alcohol to relieve stress.Quite secretive, does not like him "climb into the soul" can avoid a direct conversation, skilfully put a person on location. Open heart can only be a very close and tested friend.Restraint in the expression of feelings finds a guarantee of seriousness and reliability. Proud and unobtrusive, does not know how to entertain guests, even the rare compliments to women. Experiencing difficulty in expressing their feelings. Afraid of becoming dependent, even to close friends.

    Description by Victor Gulenko

    Prefer to remain in the shadows, not to demonstrate their aspirations, but constantly hold their hands on the pulse of all proceedings around them. Outwardly appears balanced and phlegmatic. Before acting, checks all versions of possible consequences and only then enters into the game. Distrustful and careful, skeptic, conservative and realistic. Because they are not very sociable, may appear to be introverted. If they have their aim on a victim, they act slowly, by the method of the "compressive ring".

    Sexual behavior

    Tend to occupy a “wait and see attitude” as they are prone to doubt others feelings towards them. Their emotional expression may appear somewhat forced as they prefer to await the initiative of others; afterwards are tender and attentive with an aim of improving sexual techniques. Internally are sentimental; love uncommon adventures. Not quick to forget past offences. Have need of someone reasonable, flexible and diplomatic. Their partner should be affectionate, attractive, merry and optimistic.

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    The logical subtype description explains various aspects of my personality situation. In regards to how I present myself and am viewed, my consistent distrust (hidden agenda), why I dislike INFjs a lot, etc.

    I will hold off on the details until I get a better perspective of my interpretations and others' opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    The logical subtype description explains various aspects of my personality situation. In regards to how I present myself and am viewed, my consistent distrust (hidden agenda), why I dislike INFjs a lot, etc.

    I will hold off on the details until I get a better perspective of my interpretations and others' opinions.
    These type descriptions are not the way to get typed tbh.

    Have you ever looked at the IE descriptions for when they are in Leading function position?

    Would you be able to describe what you typically conflict over with the INFjs?

    Answering such questions are much more relevant to typing.

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    Hello,

    Since my last post, I have began to side with being ESTj/LSE - Si. I have came to this conclusion after reviewing the IE Descriptions, Erotic Attitudes, and Duality Descriptions written by Stratiyevskaya.

    Erotic Attitudes:
    I do not identify with being a 'victim' in the Erotic Attitudes Theory. I identify more with 'caregiver'. The ESTj and INFj duality description seems very accurate to the relational development with my current SO. I always initiate physical intimacy, and obviously more dominant. But I also take a more 'caring' technique, such as fixing her car & electronics, carrying her stuff, buying food, etc. I realized my expressions of affection relate a lot to Si. I provide for the current moment and environment - making sure we are comfortable and safe. In contrast, I read that ENTjs are more mentally and intellectually 'challenging' to their partners. I do not really see this trait in me, as it feels like I would be 'attacking' my partner.

    Positivism vs. Negativism:
    Another primary difference between ENTj and ESTj is positivism vs. negativism. Primarily in regards to Fi and people, I am very cynical and distrustful of the intentions/feelings of others. When I meet new people, my initial impression is relatively negative even though I do not publicize it.

    Possible Duality:
    I believe my SO is an INFj. Originally, I thought INFj were 'deep', a bit out there, disorganized, and dreamy people. This seems like an exaggeration within the MBTI descriptions, as INFPs are often portrayed as lost artists. The Oldham Description describes her principles and values quite accurately. She is very gentle and outgoing but at the same time reserved about her inner feelings. Even after 2 years, I still truly do not fully know her deep thoughts/opinions. These characteristics are polar to me. I am much more upfront, and honest (sometimes too much).

    I retract my previous statement of not getting along with INFjs. I miss identified these individuals and believe that they are ISFps. I have noticed a few physical patterns with these people that I view as the same personality type. They are relatively 'artsy', a lot of them wear sandles with socks, some have dyed hair, dislike me 'watching' them, have a lot of dramatic displays of emotions/quick mood swings, and often are overweight. I apologize if this is offensive to anyone.

    Information Elements:
    I found the following quote from the Ni as Vulnerable Function very accurate, "when talking about the future, especially one's longer-term plan), the individual treats it as if it were accessible today and often is not aware of all the developments that must happen first." I associated my tendency to plan the future as an ENTj trait. But what I did not realize was that my plans primarily consist of the final results and not the processes/steps in between.

    I relate with the
    Oldham ESTj description about 95%, by far the most accurate description thus far. The only statement I have slight disagreements with is statement 4 in the first listing about "Belief in playing fair". http://www.the16types.info/info/types/ESTJ.htm

    My personality type search has been narrowed down to ENTj or ESTj. I think the only way for me to gain complete confidence in my decision is through experiencing intertype relations and understanding how I cooperate with each type. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you again for all previous help!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    Hello,

    Since my last post, I have began to side with being ESTj/LSE - Si. I have came to this conclusion after reviewing the IE Descriptions, Erotic Attitudes, and Duality Descriptions written by Stratiyevskaya.

    Erotic Attitudes:
    I do not identify with being a 'victim' in the Erotic Attitudes Theory. I identify more with 'caregiver'. The ESTj and INFj duality description seems very accurate to the relational development with my current SO. I always initiate physical intimacy, and obviously more dominant. But I also take a more 'caring' technique, such as fixing her car & electronics, carrying her stuff, buying food, etc. I realized my expressions of affection relate a lot to Si. I provide for the current moment and environment - making sure we are comfortable and safe. In contrast, I read that ENTjs are more mentally and intellectually 'challenging' to their partners. I do not really see this trait in me, as it feels like I would be 'attacking' my partner.

    Positivism vs. Negativism:
    Another primary difference between ENTj and ESTj is positivism vs. negativism. Primarily in regards to Fi and people, I am very cynical and distrustful of the intentions/feelings of others. When I meet new people, my initial impression is relatively negative even though I do not publicize it.

    Possible Duality:
    I believe my SO is an INFj. Originally, I thought INFj were 'deep', a bit out there, disorganized, and dreamy people. This seems like an exaggeration within the MBTI descriptions, as INFPs are often portrayed as lost artists. The Oldham Description describes her principles and values quite accurately. She is very gentle and outgoing but at the same time reserved about her inner feelings. Even after 2 years, I still truly do not fully know her deep thoughts/opinions. These characteristics are polar to me. I am much more upfront, and honest (sometimes too much).

    I retract my previous statement of not getting along with INFjs. I miss identified these individuals and believe that they are ISFps. I have noticed a few physical patterns with these people that I view as the same personality type. They are relatively 'artsy', a lot of them wear sandles with socks, some have dyed hair, dislike me 'watching' them, have a lot of dramatic displays of emotions/quick mood swings, and often are overweight. I apologize if this is offensive to anyone.

    Information Elements:
    I found the following quote from the Ni as Vulnerable Function very accurate, "when talking about the future, especially one's longer-term plan), the individual treats it as if it were accessible today and often is not aware of all the developments that must happen first." I associated my tendency to plan the future as an ENTj trait. But what I did not realize was that my plans primarily consist of the final results and not the processes/steps in between.

    I relate with the
    Oldham ESTj description about 95%, by far the most accurate description thus far. The only statement I have slight disagreements with is statement 4 in the first listing about "Belief in playing fair". http://www.the16types.info/info/types/ESTJ.htm

    My personality type search has been narrowed down to ENTj or ESTj. I think the only way for me to gain complete confidence in my decision is through experiencing intertype relations and understanding how I cooperate with each type. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you again for all previous help!

    Very interesting. ENTj or ESTj.

    I am ENTj, I have a few friends of both types, and my mother is ESTj. Honestly, it is sometimes hard to tell the difference between these Kindred types if you aren't actually in the presence of one or the other. In that case, the differences are almost unmistakable (to me, anyway), but they are hard to describe.

    Here is what I look for:

    ENTj's are quicker than ESTj's. They move quicker, and they jump from one thought to the next quicker. (What is quicker? -problem.)
    ESTj's seem much more grounded than ENTj's. They seem more solid, more deliberate.

    ENTj's are always thinking of the best possible future and how to bring it about, sometimes by using highly speculative methods which, while seeming speculative or even naive to a casual observer, somehow will still usually work, when other methods fail.
    ESTj's are much better at perfecting things which already exist, sometimes beyond all expectations, based on what has been proven to work in the past. ESTj's are more likely to implement something that stays within the commonly accepted rules, to ensure that it will be most widely accepted.

    ENTj's don't care very much about your opinions of them. They may try to understand your viewpoint, but it is usually for the purpose of understanding all the obstacles in the path to their objectives (you being one possible obstacle), or to be able to influence you into following their course of action. They often find out what you want, and give it to you (if efficient) so you will internalize their goals (basically, so they don't have to bother with watching you every minute).
    ESTj's care a great deal about your opinion of them and how you perceive them. They basically want to be respected by strangers. They can be less concerned with the opinions of their family members.

    ENTj's as supervisors don't micromanage you. They carefully and clearly assess your strengths (and won't tell you this unless you ask), give you an assignment that they think is just a bit of a stretch for you, and leave you alone to find a way to do it in the way you best see fit, only coming around to check to see if you need any more resources and to look at the final product.
    ESTj's give you detailed instructions (and need detailed instructions) for carrying out any task. They will frequently check up on you to ensure that you are following their instructions to the letter.

    ENTj's dress either like bums or with a certain expensive (if they get help) flair, because they like to be seen as unconventional; as the only one.
    ESTJ's dress with great good taste, usually because they have studied men's magazines and have excellent taste in clothes which are conventionally acceptable, because they want to be respected by the group.

    ENTj's often can be seen with a posse. You can call it whatever you want, but ENTj's like to have a bunch of people around them to lend them support. They may not ask those people for support, they may not seem like they need support, but they will still like to have a number of people around them.
    ESTj's never have a posse. They are solitary animals.

    ENTj's are positivists and will promise you the moon and the stars, but might only deliver a giant asteroid. On the other hand, sometimes what the ENTj's deliver is something that you can't get anywhere else.
    ESTj's are negativists and will under-promise and often over-deliver, but the product will be very conventional.

    ENTj's prefer to be in a chaotic environment, where they walk in and efficiently fix things. (In the past, one of my customers told me that I was like the 82nd Airborne, because I drop in, look around at the people running everywhere in panic because the place is on fire, assess things and fix the problem, and bounce out.)
    ESTj's prefer to be in stable environments, where incremental changes can make things better without blowing the place up.

    ENTj's typically either want to, or inexplicably find themselves in a position where they, run a company. Their methods are unconventional and they can be disruptive if things are running too smoothly.
    ESTj's make superb middle managers in large companies, because they fit in and work extremely hard.

    When relaxing, ENTj's are working on some other projects which will pay off in the future.
    When relaxing, ESTj's are either fishing or working on their boats and gear or their house or car.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 02-26-2017 at 06:50 PM.

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    ENTj:
    likes to experiment in order to make everything more efficient even if turns out to be less efficient and irritating (for others) in the short term.
    LIE can change their mind often. They are like human Advent calenders - every day something new happens. (New working hours, tables in different places or the LIE decides to work alone only to return a week later because he can't stand being alone). An outsider never knows what going on in their head because they come up with the most unusual solutions
    Overly trusting sometimes, not pushy (indirectly at best) does not try to control people and makes sure no one tries to control him. Will behave like a child to make that clear - by demonstratively overstepping boundaries (not personal boundaries, just house rules or the like) , talk back and provoke


    On optimism (Reinin trait) and planning for the future:
    One time the LIE had a plan where we would finish three projects by the following month. The SLI and I never believed it would work out (and it didn't because other projects and details needed maintenance) but in his head it was completely possible
    LIE make optimistic prognoses for the future and have a picture in their head what they want from life. They always make plans and if you have a role in his future plans - you will know

    On improvement:
    LIE believe bad habits need to be eradicated: self optimization. They also try to improve other's habits by making suggestions, sharing knowledge (books) or by straight talk


    Hidden Agenda Se:
    LIE are insecure about how they look. They try to hide it but look closely and you see someone who thinks he is an ugly duckling although they put (inconsistent!) effort into staying healthy and fit. They can try to pursue a low carb diet and ditch it in the next moment.
    When a LIE is in bad spirits you will see it in Si-Porl first: jogging pants instead of jeans, bad sleeping pattern, unhealthy diet, doesn't talk about new ideas- when a LIE is in good spirits he will do sports, look after his diet be more active and sociable again
    And they are a bit shy, may bump into things, forgetful of (and don't care about ) surroundings

    Impatient: When a LIE says we will test something for two weeks he means 4 days. "Tell me in a week" means tomorrow, evening.
    Will organize events and invite people. Often. It's like their whole live spins around 1.their business 2.Recruiting a life partner 3.Friends and exciting activities



    ESTj:
    Hardworking. Both are. But ESTj have so many projects going on that they may not get enough sleep. They manage time very badly (can't accurately imagine how long something will take) and describe themselves as "spontaneous" (which, from the standpoint of someone who doesn't plan anything, completely inaccurate)

    Their presence is "softer" in comparison to LIE. More down to earth, calmer and don't seem to try to figure out the person they are talking to. They are not in a hurry to meet life goals and be ahead of others.
    Have no grand visions about the future, plan for short term.

    Caring: They appreciate kind people, but other than the LIE they will say it directly when they think you are nice, and since they are negativists they won't try to flirt right away. They don't make sex jokes and don't try to test boundaries.
    Respectful and patient.


    Look out for their friends, makes sure they keep up, will explain, inform about plan changes, may yield to other people's plans and look for guidance on what to do next and how long it will take.
    Some LIE will say "but I am not heartless. I also care about others!" Yes, but it works like this: Lets say LSE and LIE are on trip in the forest with their friends. On of those friends slips out and lands in the mud. The LIE will expect them to get up and deal with it because ESI will do exactly that.The LSE will probably see if he can help and never do this again because uhh mud.


    No experiments that might hinder the work process. It is about planning and implementation. Creativity (in the form of new gadgets, optimization ) comes at the end. LSE optimize what is and accept people who who they are. They don't try to sculpt someone into a better human being by criticizing current habits, but work as a pillar in your life.
    Last edited by Cosmic Teapot; 02-26-2017 at 09:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    The logical subtype description explains various aspects of my personality situation. In regards to how I present myself and am viewed, my consistent distrust (hidden agenda), why I dislike INFjs a lot, etc.

    I will hold off on the details until I get a better perspective of my interpretations and others' opinions.
    What?

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    My duals are not open and accepting of new things easily unlike ILE. My duals don't get personal easily and don't bridge interpersonal distance fast as they do not trust people

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    I have bolded the statements I relate to and included notes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Very interesting. ENTj or ESTj.

    I am ENTj, I have a few friends of both types, and my mother is ESTj. Honestly, it is sometimes hard to tell the difference between these Kindred types if you aren't actually in the presence of one or the other. In that case, the differences are almost unmistakable (to me, anyway), but they are hard to describe.

    Note: I have only known one ENTj, who was my temporary science teacher in high school. She was a Black American and in her 50s from the south. The cultural and age difference makes her not a suitable comparison.
    I know of female student in my graphic design class, who is either ESTj or ENTj.


    Here is what I look for:

    ENTj's are quicker than ESTj's. They move quicker, and they jump from one thought to the next quicker. (What is quicker? -problem.)
    ESTj's seem much more grounded than ENTj's. They seem more solid, more deliberate.
    Note: I have a face-paced/drive quickly. I want to travel to my destination as fast as possible. I do jump from one thought to the next quickly, but only once I feel satisfied and fully comprehended the previous topic. If someone moves to another topic without fully resolving/explaining it, I get annoyed.

    ENTj's are always thinking of the best possible future and how to bring it about, sometimes by using highly speculative methods which, while seeming speculative or even naive to a casual observer, somehow will still usually work, when other methods fail.
    ESTj's are much better at perfecting things which already exist, sometimes beyond all expectations, based on what has been proven to work in the past. ESTj's are more likely to implement something that stays within the commonly accepted rules, to ensure that it will be most widely accepted.

    ENTj's don't care very much about your opinions of them. They may try to understand your viewpoint, but it is usually for the purpose of understanding all the obstacles in the path to their objectives (you being one possible obstacle), or to be able to influence you into following their course of action. They often find out what you want, and give it to you (if efficient) so you will internalize their goals (basically, so they don't have to bother with watching you every minute).
    ESTj's care a great deal about your opinion of them and how you perceive them. They basically want to be respected by strangers. They can be less concerned with the opinions of their family members.
    Note: I do not care what people think of me but I do want to be respected. Another words, people can say, "I am a jerk, arrogant, sketchy, selfish." But as long as they know that I 'get the job done'. It kinda manifests as my want for them to be intimidated of me.

    ENTj's as supervisors don't micromanage you. They carefully and clearly assess your strengths (and won't tell you this unless you ask), give you an assignment that they think is just a bit of a stretch for you, and leave you alone to find a way to do it in the way you best see fit, only coming around to check to see if you need any more resources and to look at the final product.
    ESTj's give you detailed instructions (and need detailed instructions) for carrying out any task. They will frequently check up on you to ensure that you are following their instructions to the letter.
    Note: I will give detailed instructions/frequently check up on someone if I feel that they do not have the necessary skills/discipline to achieve my assigned task. This is only when I do not have any other alternative source/supervise. If I am confident of the individual's skills to effectively and independently complete the task, then I will not micromanage and only care about the final result.

    ENTj's dress either like bums or with a certain expensive (if they get help) flair, because they like to be seen as unconventional; as the only one.
    ESTJ's dress with great good taste, usually because they have studied men's magazines and have excellent taste in clothes which are conventionally acceptable, because they want to be respected by the group.

    ENTj's often can be seen with a posse. You can call it whatever you want, but ENTj's like to have a bunch of people around them to lend them support. They may not ask those people for support, they may not seem like they need support, but they will still like to have a number of people around them.
    ESTj's never have a posse. They are solitary animals.
    Note: I do know a lot of people/positive acquaintances. But I do not have any close friends or people I hang out with consistently. I am jumping between social groups and/or pursuing my own agenda. Most often, my friendships are temporary and formed upon mutual means of business/interests.

    ENTj's are positivists and will promise you the moon and the stars, but might only deliver a giant asteroid. On the other hand, sometimes what the ENTj's deliver is something that you can't get anywhere else.
    ESTj's are negativists and will under-promise and often over-deliver, but the product will be very conventional.
    Note: I try to deliver exactly what I promised. Nothing more, nothing less.

    ENTj's prefer to be in a chaotic environment, where they walk in and efficiently fix things. (In the past, one of my customers told me that I was like the 82nd Airborne, because I drop in, look around at the people running everywhere in panic because the place is on fire, assess things and fix the problem, and bounce out.)
    ESTj's prefer to be in stable environments, where incremental changes can make things better without blowing the place up.
    Note: I like to enter an environment that has opportunities for me to utilize my skills and be 'promoted'. Not necessarily chaos, because I want an environment that has a basic foundation and potential. People are aware of their positions/roles. In summary, I want a relatively stable/open-minded environment that values efficiency and authority.

    ENTj's typically either want to, or inexplicably find themselves in a position where they, run a company. Their methods are unconventional and they can be disruptive if things are running too smoothly.
    ESTj's make superb middle managers in large companies, because they fit in and work extremely hard.
    Note: A recent example of how I 'manage'- I currently serve as a staff/counselor for volleyball gym classes at my college. I have implemented an organized schedule for the classes. I lock the volleyball cage and removed the net outside the volleyball. Students are forced to set-up the net, etc before I unlock the volleyball cage. If they don't set up, then no volleyballs. I am very strict in keeping track of all the equipment and following my 'protocol'. But I do not force them to set up the net in a specific way, I just want it set up as soon as possible.

    When relaxing, ENTj's are working on some other projects which will pay off in the future.
    When relaxing, ESTj's are either fishing or working on their boats and gear or their house or car.
    Note: When I am relaxing, it is with my SO, often watching movies. I also like to participate in one of my pet projects such as programming and genetics, visual art, concept art, researching/reading, exercising, sometimes watching TV/playing video games for a short duration. I am a homebody. I rarely tinker with my car or electronics unless it requires repairs.

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    I have bolded the statements I relate to and included notes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    ENTj:
    likes to experiment in order to make everything more efficient even if turns out to be less efficient and irritating (for others) in the short term.
    Note: I am not sure if I agree or disagree with the above statement. Sorry, it seems a bit controversial to me.
    LIE can change their mind often. They are like human Advent calenders - every day something new happens. (New working hours, tables in different places or the LIE decides to work alone only to return a week later because he can't stand being alone). An outsider never knows what going on in their head because they come up with the most unusual solutions
    Overly trusting sometimes, not pushy (indirectly at best) does not try to control people and makes sure no one tries to control him. Will behave like a child to make that clear - by demonstratively overstepping boundaries (not personal boundaries, just house rules or the like) , talk back and provoke
    It's not every day something new happens. Rather, I change my mind about a subject/long-term plan because I am trying to adapt to my current situation. Then based on this decision, my day-to-day schedule changes, etc.
    Example: I play a strategy video game. I make long-term plans at how I will progress, build my empire, develop alliances, etc. I have invested a lot of time and mental effort into this game. The next day, I am betrayed in the game. Of course, I am angry and want revenge. But I think: what has happened, has happened. There is no longer any point in replaying the game as it would be a waste of resources, thus it is a dead investment. I take it as a learning experience and find a new hobby/investment to replace it. To the outsider, it may seem drastic at how I can change my mind so quickly. From being completely addicted and enthralled in this game, then suddenly quitting. But for me, it is just adapting to my current situation and readjusting my long-term plans.


    On optimism (Reinin trait) and planning for the future:
    One time the LIE had a plan where we would finish three projects by the following month. The SLI and I never believed it would work out (and it didn't because other projects and details needed maintenance) but in his head it was completely possible
    LIE make optimistic prognoses for the future and have a picture in their head what they want from life. They always make plans and if you have a role in his future plans - you will know

    On improvement:
    LIE believe bad habits need to be eradicated: self optimization. They also try to improve other's habits by making suggestions, sharing knowledge (books) or by straight talk


    Hidden Agenda Se:
    LIE are insecure about how they look. They try to hide it but look closely and you see someone who thinks he is an ugly duckling although they put (inconsistent!) effort into staying healthy and fit. They can try to pursue a low carb diet and ditch it in the next moment.
    When a LIE is in bad spirits you will see it in Si-Porl first: jogging pants instead of jeans, bad sleeping pattern, unhealthy diet, doesn't talk about new ideas- when a LIE is in good spirits he will do sports, look after his diet be more active and sociable again
    And they are a bit shy, may bump into things, forgetful of
    (and don't care about ) surroundings

    Impatient: When a LIE says we will test something for two weeks he means 4 days. "Tell me in a week" means tomorrow, evening.
    Will organize events and invite people. Often. It's like their whole live spins around 1.their business 2.Recruiting a life partner 3.Friends and exciting activities



    ESTj:
    Hardworking. Both are. But ESTj have so many projects going on that they may not get enough sleep. They manage time very badly (can't accurately imagine how long something will take) and describe themselves as "spontaneous" (which, from the standpoint of someone who doesn't plan anything, completely inaccurate)

    Their presence is "softer" in comparison to LIE. More down to earth, calmer and don't seem to try to figure out the person they are talking to. They are not in a hurry to meet life goals and be ahead of others.
    Have no grand visions about the future, plan for short term.

    Caring: They appreciate kind people, but other than the LIE they will say it directly when they think you are nice, and since they are negativists they won't try to flirt right away. They don't make sex jokes and don't try to test boundaries.
    Respectful and patient.
    Note: I do make sexual jokes and test boundaries, but only after I have gained all the information I want and there are no long-term consequences.


    Look out for their friends, makes sure they keep up, will explain, inform about plan changes, may yield to other people's plans and look for guidance on what to do next and how long it will take.
    Some LIE will say "but I am not heartless. I also care about others!" Yes, but it works like this: Lets say LSE and LIE are on trip in the forest with their friends. On of those friends slips out and lands in the mud. The LIE will expect them to get up and deal with it because ESI will do exactly that.The LSE will probably see if he can help and never do this again because uhh mud.Note: If it someone I very care about, like family or SO, then I would never do it again and feel very bad. If it is just a friend or acquaintance, I would not really care much and probably find it humorous.
    No experiments that might hinder the work process. It is about planning and implementation. Creativity (in the form of new gadgets, optimization ) comes at the end. LSE optimize what is and accept people who who they are. They don't try to sculpt someone into a better human being by criticizing current habits, but work as a pillar in your life.

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    I don't see why the LIE typing is to be doubted, really.

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    Default TheHotelAmbush Questionnaire Part 1

    I have answered a few questions that was mentioned to me by Horatio.

    How were you as a child?
    As a toddler, I was told that I was very 'needy'. Ages 5-10, I was somewhat extroverted and social. At a young age, I was stubborn. Example: When I was 7, I disliked soccer. I was not allowed to quit. So during games, I would just sit in the middle of the field. I was never the best student, because I often found the classes boring, not useful, and easy (busy-work). I have always been very adventurous and like exploring within boundaries.

    As a child, I found significant enjoyment in drawing battle characters and creating my own 'worlds' with paper cutouts. I would cut paper into different characters/decorate them and eventually create armies, different civilizations, and they would go to war, etc.

    In middle school, I was very happy-go-lucky, popular, and social. Around 8th grade, I started thinking more about my future and goals.

    For high school, I transferred to a magnet school that was about an hour away from my residency. This limited my social life, because I did not attend school with my neighborhood friends and my friends at school were 'far away'.I was much less social and more formal in high school.

    What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?
    I am currently a freshman in college, and studying a dual major for Computer Science and Graphic Design.

    What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job? If you had enough money to live comfortably for the rest of your life without working, what would you do with your time?
    I do not have reliable experience in the first two questions. Although, when I do look for an official job, I want an organized job that has structure and provide the opportunity for promotions and 'climbing up the ladder'. The job must value profits and results.

    What traits do you find endearing that others might dislike? What traits are considered positive/neutral by others but tend to annoy you?
    I do not value intellect and social status in another person. I value complete honesty and trustworthiness. This applies to romantic relations too. Additionally, I like possessiveness. I find jealousy and possessiveness attractive in a relationship, in the assumption that it is mutual. I think a lot of people would get annoyed by this in a relationship.

    The last question is a bit difficult to answer because I don't really know what others' consider positive/neutral. But I will list characteristics that annoy me.
    I don't like 'fun' girls. I dislike impulsive or debauchery behavior.
    I do not like people making plans for me. I prefer them to tell me in advance what needs to be done/what is occurring, and then I will adjust my plans accordingly.
    I do not like people trying to modify my important morals. I dislike people who are verbally loud or attract attention in public.
    I do not like it when someone is 'too nice' to others. I like it when my SO is somewhat snobbish/stand-offish.
    I get annoyed when people use euphemism/censor their communication so they don't hurt my feelings. I prefer the negative, direct truth in everything. Even if they try to word it politely, it gets me very annoyed.
    I often get annoyed with people, who participate in social activism by disrupting the general order of the public. I would prefer activists who publish articles, share their perspective, form non-profit organizations, or professionally enter politics. I find it disruptive to people who rally in public, boycott, or march.
    Example: Recently there have been various student marches in the metropolitan area. Although, they are fighting for a cause, think about all the chaos they cause (traffic, police officers, pedestrians) and the people they stop from returning home to their families. I view it as selfish, nonprofessional, and unproductive to pursue social activism in this form.

    What is something you regret?
    I regret when I was emotionally detached in previous situations that caused the deterioration of previous friendships. Similarly, I am disheartened about previous events where I caused an awkward moment in emotional situations because I did not know how to respond effectively.

    Other than that, I do not have much regrets. Even when I was intoxicated or upset, I maintained awareness of my decisions, etc.

    Who do you admire, and why?
    I do not admire anyone realistic. To admire someone, I need to meet them personally. Although, I do respect many individuals- specifically those that have simultaneously acquired significant economic success through hardwork and maintained a closely attached family/marriage. I have high respect for memorable men who exhibit significant bravery in battle (often army officers), such as Adiran Carton De Wiart.

    I am fond of the fictional characters Nick Wilde from Zootopia and Bugs Bunny, and personas portrayed by George Clooney and Robert De Niro. These characters often appear suave, calm/collected, strategic, and 'a page ahead of everyone'. I admire fictional characters that display an unshakable level of aggression, power, and loyalty. Examples: King Kong (2005), The Hulk.

    To be continued...
    Last edited by KanRen; 03-10-2017 at 01:20 AM.

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    I don't like 'fun' girls. I dislike impulsive or debauchery behavior.
    I do not like it when someone is 'too nice' to others. I like it when my SO is somewhat snobbish/stand-offish.
    I get annoyed when people use euphemism/censor their communication so they don't hurt my feelings. I prefer the negative, direct truth in everything. Even if they try to word it politely, it gets me very annoyed.
    Some of this is stereotypical ESI

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    Default TheHotelAmbush Questionnaire Part 2

    Talk about a significant event from your life.
    Ugh. I enjoy my life very much. But I do not really have anything 'significant' or noteworthy. I also find this question too general to answer properly. I'd be happy to answer specifics.

    What do you do if you're not getting what you want? What approach do you use?
    Well if it is an item, normally I will try to buy it from the individual or a store. If someone took something from me/ripped me off, it depends on the situation. For me it is a cost-benefit analysis, if the reason is worth fighting for- then I will use aggression, intimidation, and physical force if necessary. This would only occur if someone attacks me, or offends my close-ones. I am very aggressive and confrontational in defending others that I trust, more so then myself. This aspect is important to me because I feel responsible for my trustees and its a form of honor and dignity for myself. Trustees only include very close friends, SO, and family. I do not like to be responsible for other people. It is not my right to intervene in other peoples' affairs if I am not fully knowledgeable of the situation.

    Very rarely do I fight for materialistic purposes, I would rather just walk away and move on. Although I am not a push-over. If someone is clearly being disrespectful towards me, then I have no problem verbalizing it. Example: Today, I was waiting in line for a vending machine. I was next. Then, a guy who is likely a friend of the stranger in front of me tried to cut before me. I immediately recognized and reacted by forcefully moving forward and said, "I am next." They both said something in Spanish, and I ignored them, acquired my snack, and left without responding to them. Yes, they definitely cursed me out but I chose not to react or develop the situation because I got what I want and left. There is not benefit for me to cause confrontation.

    If it is something I want from from someone I am close to, I will either persistently ask (emotional persuasion) or try to bargain (logical persuasion). Additionally, my opinion of them will be significantly effected if they are not willing to accommodate me. Although, I rarely want something from others.


    What is the most interesting place you have been, and why?

    My favorite place to go is Atlantic City, New Jersey and the Bahamas. I have gone to AC as a family tradition since I was 7. Bahamas, I enjoy the weather, environment, people, etc.

    My ultimate goal for a place when I get older: I want to live on my own property in the Philippines, 5 acres, construct a mansion or compound, and reside with trustworthy family members and friends. Slightly isolated and secure from exterior threats are preferable. Additionally, maintain my property in the United States.


    How do you dress or manage your appearance?

    Regularly, I dress with the same dark blue jeans, button down, and vest. Greased back hair, and Adidas shoes. Although if I am forced to wake up early in the morning, I am too lazy to get dressed. So I will often wear sweatpants, etc. But later in the day, I regret that I was too lazy to dress properly.

    Do you like surprises?
    I generally dislike surprises because after the event, I feel like I owe the person. It just troubles my life more tbh. The only time I do like surprises for are food, intimacy, and personal recognition.

    Is there anything else important about you that we should know?
    I have never had a birthday party because I was dramatically anxious of people not showing up.

    I am very judgmental but rarely voice my opinions when the subject does not matter or hold significant pragmatic/economic incentive or value to me. I do not tell other people what to do unless it affects my life, and I expect the same treatment. This only applies to people I do not have strong attachment to. People that I trust and am emotionally invested, I am very strict and direct in sharing my opinion when I agree or disagree with something.

    I have also begun to consider the possibility of being an LSE-Si. I am most likely E8.

    I read a post from UDP about ESTJ-Si and having interrogating attitudes towards people/questioning people. I share very similar qualities in those aspects and a lot of his other posts.

    I dislike asking people to do stuff for free, especially superiors. Example: One day in class, I lost a study sheet we were using in English. Another student had lost theirs and asked the teacher for a copy. I felt too guilty/awkward to ask, so instead of just getting a new copy. I copied all the writing from my friend's study sheet to a line paper.

    My SO who I get along well with (possibly duality), is either an extroverted INFj, ISFj or ENFp.

    The only way to really annoy me, is tell me what to do- primarily when it is about insignificant details or hypocrisy, from an individual that I view as unqualified or immoral. Example: I was at a volleyball practice. I was waiting in line to be next for a passing drill and my foot was slightly on the line for the court. I was completely away from the player on the court. A domineering player behind yelled at me to back up. During situations like this, I always ignore the person and continue to pretend that I did not hear them.
    Last edited by KanRen; 03-13-2017 at 05:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KanRen View Post
    Talk about a significant event from your life.
    Ugh. I enjoy my life very much. But I do not really have anything 'significant' or noteworthy. I also find this question too general to answer properly. I'd be happy to answer specifics.

    What do you do if you're not getting what you want? What approach do you use?
    Well if it is an item, normally I will try to buy it from the individual or a store. If someone took something from me/ripped me off, it depends on the situation. For me it is a cost-benefit analysis, if the reason is worth fighting for- then I will use aggression, intimidation, and physical force if necessary. This would only occur if someone attacks me, or offends my close-ones. I am very aggressive and confrontational in defending others that I trust, more so then myself. This aspect is important to me because I feel responsible for my trustees and its a form of honor and dignity for myself. Trustees only include very close friends, SO, and family. I do not like to be responsible for other people. It is not my right to intervene in other peoples' affairs if I am not fully knowledgeable of the situation.

    Very rarely do I fight for materialistic purposes, I would rather just walk away and move on. Although I am not a push-over. If someone is clearly being disrespectful towards me, then I have no problem verbalizing it. Example: Today, I was waiting in line for a vending machine. I was next. Then, a guy who is likely a friend of the stranger in front of me tried to cut before me. I immediately recognized and reacted by forcefully moving forward and said, "I am next." They both said something in Spanish, and I ignored them, acquired my snack, and left without responding to them. Yes, they definitely cursed me out but I chose not to react or develop the situation because I got what I want and left. There is not benefit for me to cause confrontation.

    If it is something I want from from someone I am close to, I will either persistently ask (emotional persuasion) or try to bargain (logical persuasion). Additionally, my opinion of them will be significantly effected if they are not willing to accommodate me. Although, I rarely want something from others.
    Te lead
    Se HA: not all that strong Se. The defensive aspect you describe is stereotypically 2D/normative Se (two-dimensional, weak, works by social norms). You walk away from some more complex situations.


    What is the most interesting place you have been, and why?

    My favorite place to go is Atlantic City, New Jersey and the Bahamas. I have gone to AC as a family tradition since I was 7. Bahamas, I enjoy the weather, environment, people, etc.

    My ultimate goal for a place when I get older: I want to live on my own property in the Philippines, 5 acres, construct a mansion or compound, and reside with trustworthy family members and friends. Slightly isolated and secure from exterior threats are preferable. Additionally, maintain my property in the United States.
    A bit more Se HA stereotypically though.


    How do you dress or manage your appearance?

    Regularly, I dress with the same dark blue jeans, button down, and vest. Greased back hair, and Adidas shoes. Although if I am forced to wake up early in the morning, I am too lazy to get dressed. So I will often wear sweatpants, etc. But later in the day, I regret that I was too lazy to dress properly.
    Si PoLR.


    I am very judgmental but rarely voice my opinions when the subject does not matter or hold significant pragmatic/economic incentive or value to me. I do not tell other people what to do unless it affects my life, and I expect the same treatment. This only applies to people I do not have strong attachment to. People that I trust and am emotionally invested, I am very strict and direct in sharing my opinion when I agree or disagree with something.
    More Te base


    I have also begun to consider the possibility of being SLI or LSE-Si. I am most likely E8.
    No way you'd be SLI or LSE-Si, too little Si for that


    I read a post from UDP about ESTJ-Si and having interrogating attitudes towards people/questioning people. I share very similar qualities in those aspects and a lot of his other posts.
    Seriously, that would make a lot of people LSE-Si. This is completely not type specific. Instead of reading about a lot of irrelevant detail that's not specific (check out Forer effect too), what's wrong with reading information element definitions/descriptions?


    The only way to really annoy me, is tell me what to do- primarily when it is about insignificant details or hypocrisy, from an individual that I view as unqualified or immoral. Example: I was at a volleyball practice. I was waiting in line to be next for a passing drill and my foot was slightly on the line for the court. I was completely away from the player on the court. A domineering player behind yelled at me to back up. During situations like this, I always ignore the person and continue to pretend that I did not hear them.
    Curiosity - how do the other LIEs on here relate to this?

  26. #66

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