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Thread: Should you make peace with your PoLR, or minimize your PoLR?

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    Default Should you make peace with your PoLR, or minimize your PoLR?

    Are you more likely to achieve psychological fulfillment by filtering those who have your PoLR in their ego out of your life, or by accepting and attempting to develop your PoLR? I currently have many strong Fe types in my life. Is it possible for me, an SLI, to become comfortable with Fe if I really work on it, or would that be a futile endeavor? Is there perhaps a better way to handle the PoLR?

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    Working on our functions is I think one of the funnest parts of studying socionics! What is the real point of learning so much about these theories if we don't try to better ourselves by applying them to our lives? In my opinion it's possible for any type to become comfortable - or at least increase their comfort - in any of the functions. However, it would probably take a good amount of effort. As for handling the PoLR in daily life, it's probably critical to study Fe types (videos, real people, etc) and watch how they use their Fe, and then actively try to apply their mannerisms, facial expressions, etc to your daily life. At least this is what I do but it might be out of the ordinary.

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    1) There are some useful strategies for dealing with polr information. The first is to try to turn it into either your creative or your hidden agenda. That is, when I receive information in a Te manner, I think: okay, how can I turn this into Ti or Fe? Can I make a game out of it? Can I reduce it to a system or a schematic? Does it have an internal logic to it that I can master? Can I break it up into small chunks that each relate to a larger structure? So for you, encountering Fe information, it can be helpful to try to "translate" it into Te or Fi. "Aw, you're just trying to deepen our relationship" rather than "omg you obviously want me to feel so much right now and I just don't." I guess Te would like... well I don't know what Te would do but try to do that to Fe energy.

    2) I meeeeeeeaaaannnnnn... listen, first off socionics is wildly inaccurate and not that great at reality so if you have a bunch of friends who you type as Fe but you like hanging out with them even though they majorly annoy you on some points, don't stop hanging out with them bc of socionics. That would be dumb. Socionics can be cool but the real test is, you know, life.

    3) That said: making peace with the polr is not really going to empower you to maximize your potential. It's like, do you want to learn to run faster on level ground or learn to wade faster through quicksand? On one hand, if you don't learn how to wade in the quicksand, you might die, whereas you're probably not going to die from not being able to run fast enough, as long as you don't put yourself in super duper high pressure situations. But on the other hand, the fastest quicksand-wader is still considerably slower than a slow runner on level ground. I say recognize what situation you're in and live according to that.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Food View Post
    Are you more likely to achieve psychological fulfillment by filtering those who have your PoLR in their ego out of your life, or by accepting and attempting to develop your PoLR? I currently have many strong Fe types in my life. Is it possible for me, an SLI, to become comfortable with Fe if I really work on it, or would that be a futile endeavor? Is there perhaps a better way to handle the PoLR?

    I don't think you need to filter out people, or even work on Fe directly. Better to pay more attention to your demonstrative function (Ti). Why? Because this function is tied to the polr in terms of defense, when the demonstrative senses some kind of threat, however subtle, the polr automatically becomes more sensitive and reacts in self defense. This obviously makes it hard to use the polr in a constructive way. Once you resolve whatever is hurting the demonstrative function, the polr should relax and express itself more freely.
    Last edited by ConcreteButterfly; 07-03-2015 at 12:40 PM.

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    My sense is the lowest guys tend to be lowest in large part due to overall insufficiency with the "joint" function behind. In other words, pathetic Fe is an overall symptom of a pathetic F.
    So really the best way is to understand it better overall... then you start to see the need. The overall attitude is unlikely to change really, but you're more likely to see that a complete picture on say F requires both sides.

    There's a good reason that say, an ethical Fe-valuing type will have strong Fi.

    The idea that you can be this XLI which somehow ignores E/Fe and focuses on R/Fi belies that you betray your F overall by not covering its aspects sufficiently (even if you have a preference for which side you value -- it doesn't mean you can just deploy that side totally independently).

    There are definitely situations that belong more one-sidedly to one or the other side which you might indeed want to ignore due to your valuation, though. But plenty of situations truly demand that to protect one side, you must have at least basic command of the other.

    I think the easiest example of this for me to give is the Te-Ti spectrum. It's fine and even perhaps sensible to differentiate in one direction or another. But there is definitely such a thing as playing with empty structures and growing overly attached to them, as I gave the example of in the Te-polr thread. Te has one update with relevant logical facts, so that the logical investigation does not stagnate. This doesn't mean that the Te perspective is favored in a Ti-ego type ever, but you get less of a somewhat delusional use of the IE as opposed to the case of HA. In XLI, I notice Fi-HA manifests as a kind of rigid sense of one's ethical constitution, defensively ignoring how events are affecting your emotional state in a way so as to impede your ethical judgment.
    Last edited by chemical; 07-03-2015 at 11:31 PM.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    for weak functions more so than for any other it's important to find a set of strong basic principles and stick to them. don't try understand or command the advanced stuff, just go with what works and always has worked and stop worrying about what you could be missing out on.

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    You can't run away from your PoLR. I think it's stupid to try to minimize its influence from your life. The more well adjusted and mature people I've met seem to adapt to it rather than to reject its influence, utterly.
    Life's a bitch and she's got me pussy whipped.

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    Forget your polr. I just lean more towards being more in tune with Si because when my bf lays there and doesn't say it's rear time I know the unspoken language of chillaX . I think try being intuned with functions that you value

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    I think that part of the allure of duality, however overrated, is that your dual helps you cope with your PoLR via their Id functions. Theoretically, this would make it so that you wouldn't have to worry about your PoLR. This isn't to say that you should seek a dual solely with the intention of running from your PoLR: there's no reason you can't learn to cope yourself. The natural defensive property of a specific type's dual in relation to them, and vice versa, is rather cozy, and it provides a healthier alternative to coping independently with your PoLR.

    @Maritsa, I understand completely the desire to ignore your PoLR and instead seek refuge in your dual. I suppose this works for those fortunate enough to be in a long-term relationship with their dual, while I think that those less fortunate should understand that there can be multiple solutions to the problem of the pesky PoLR, even if they are far less ideal.
    Last edited by hacim; 07-04-2015 at 04:59 AM. Reason: clarification

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    There's no good proof that 'polr' even exists, so why be upset at something that doesn't even exist in the first place?

    socionics is just social observations/stereotypes about people that have some truth to them. ie a heartfelt emotional person (IEI) will probably not sound like an asshole logical str8 man Te-ego doctor. An asshole logical te doctor will probably have bad handwriting and bad bedside manners/close people personal skills.

    Find the humor in things. Think of polr/psychological weak points as something like you see on tvtropes.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by krieger View Post
    for weak functions more so than for any other it's important to find a set of strong basic principles and stick to them. don't try understand or command the advanced stuff, just go with what works and always has worked and stop worrying about what you could be missing out on.
    Yep, that´s the way to go.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Sweep ur polr under the couch and stare at it from a corner across the room like a scared cat

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    Confront your PoLR and ass rape it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    There's no good proof that 'polr' even exists, so why be upset at something that doesn't even exist in the first place?

    socionics is just social observations/stereotypes about people that have some truth to them. ie a heartfelt emotional person (IEI) will probably not sound like an asshole logical str8 man Te-ego doctor. An asshole logical te doctor will probably have bad handwriting and bad bedside manners/close people personal skills.

    Find the humor in things. Think of polr/psychological weak points as something like you see on tvtropes.com
    Idk, I am pretty direct and blunt, and I have terrible handwriting and bad people skills. They can show up in any type

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    Quote Originally Posted by Food View Post
    Are you more likely to achieve psychological fulfillment by filtering those who have your PoLR in their ego out of your life, or by accepting and attempting to develop your PoLR? I currently have many strong Fe types in my life. Is it possible for me, an SLI, to become comfortable with Fe if I really work on it, or would that be a futile endeavor? Is there perhaps a better way to handle the PoLR?
    I thought about this again recently and I find that HA is the best way to directly address the issues when PoLR can't solve it but it takes awhile via HA

    The creative is also good but often only by reworking the entire situation/approach to it so it's only indirectly addressed by that. Or it can be an attempt at direct addressing but then it's very inefficiently done via lots of time and effort.

    Maybe sometimes demonstrative also helps a bit, I didn't observe that much yet

    Best solution of course is get a dual to help sort the issue you're having hahah.. not that you can't do it alone, just that's more efficient.


    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    My sense is the lowest guys tend to be lowest in large part due to overall insufficiency with the "joint" function behind. In other words, pathetic Fe is an overall symptom of a pathetic F.
    So really the best way is to understand it better overall... then you start to see the need. The overall attitude is unlikely to change really, but you're more likely to see that a complete picture on say F requires both sides.

    There's a good reason that say, an ethical Fe-valuing type will have strong Fi.

    The idea that you can be this XLI which somehow ignores E/Fe and focuses on R/Fi belies that you betray your F overall by not covering its aspects sufficiently (even if you have a preference for which side you value -- it doesn't mean you can just deploy that side totally independently).

    There are definitely situations that belong more one-sidedly to one or the other side which you might indeed want to ignore due to your valuation, though. But plenty of situations truly demand that to protect one side, you must have at least basic command of the other.

    I think the easiest example of this for me to give is the Te-Ti spectrum. It's fine and even perhaps sensible to differentiate in one direction or another. But there is definitely such a thing as playing with empty structures and growing overly attached to them, as I gave the example of in the Te-polr thread. Te has one update with relevant logical facts, so that the logical investigation does not stagnate. This doesn't mean that the Te perspective is favored in a Ti-ego type ever, but you get less of a somewhat delusional use of the IE as opposed to the case of HA. In XLI, I notice Fi-HA manifests as a kind of rigid sense of one's ethical constitution, defensively ignoring how events are affecting your emotional state in a way so as to impede your ethical judgment.
    Interesting thoughts but even if theoretically I sometimes recognize the need for better Ne to support a better Ni HA, I still can't do it.

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    @Myst yeah I think that is typical (and in a way pretty much my point)

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    I think you should work on it. It can come out anyway in times of stress. Its wise to be prepared and competent in times of stress. I cant really picture how it works for Js, but as a P it seems like every J function (the PolRs) is necessary for being an adult.

    Te PolR: susceptible to making shit up to fit their agenda and, at least for maintaining a job, diligence goes along way. Not being able to plug away and keep working is a terrible habit. Not improving that weakness in the pysche leads to depending on others, and being a leech on others hits the demonstrative Fi hard.
    Fi PolR: susceptible to getting butthurt when insecure about their standing with someone, which can burn bridges and push close people away. Strengthening Fi allows for better reciprocation of goodwill because youre confident where you stand and it lessens selfish and erratic behavior. I imagine it hits the Te demonstrative hard when you objectively look at your actions and realize you acted like a piece of shit.
    And so on and so on...

    If you dont work on the weak spots of your personality, you directly limit your happiness IMO.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I think you should work on it. It can come out anyway in times of stress. Its wise to be prepared and competent in times of stress. I cant really picture how it works for Js, but as a P it seems like every J function (the PolRs) is necessary for being an adult.

    Te PolR: susceptible to making shit up to fit their agenda and, at least for maintaining a job, diligence goes along way. Not being able to plug away and keep working is a terrible habit. Not improving that weakness in the pysche leads to depending on others, and being a leech on others hits the demonstrative Fi hard.
    Fi PolR: susceptible to getting butthurt when insecure about their standing with someone, which can burn bridges and push close people away. Strengthening Fi allows for better reciprocation of goodwill because youre confident where you stand and it lessens selfish and erratic behavior. I imagine it hits the Te demonstrative hard when you objectively look at your actions and realize you acted like a piece of shit.
    And so on and so on...

    If you dont work on the weak spots of your personality, you directly limit your happiness IMO.
    You got examples on Ne PoLR/Si demonstrative?

    I still think you can't really work on PoLR directly via the PoLR itself

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