Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Demonstrative Si

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Demonstrative Si

    How does it act, look like, differ from programme Si? They are both 4D functions after all...

  2. #2
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,227
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Si Leading- Always telling others about what they should eat, concern for how themselves and others dress, constantly rearranging their homes.
    Si demonstrative- Not giving a shit about seeing the dentist, eating right, disinfecting wounds, having check-ups but somehow still being a pillar of health. Don't talk about decor to others but get angry when you try to rearrange their things because they unconsciously proud of their ability to do this themselves.

    Basically Si leading types constantly focused on their health and the design of their homes, while Si demonstratives seem not to give a shit but somehow still go on fine regardless.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    Si Leading- Always telling others about what they should eat, concern for how themselves and others dress, constantly rearranging their homes.
    Si demonstrative- Not giving a shit about seeing the dentist, eating right, disinfecting wounds, having check-ups but somehow still being a pillar of health. Don't talk about decor to others but get angry when you try to rearrange their things because they unconsciously proud of their ability to do this themselves.

    Basically Si leading types constantly focused on their health and the design of their homes, while Si demonstratives seem not to give a shit but somehow still go on fine regardless.
    Thanks.

    I am not concerned what others should eat lol. It's their body! They can mutilate it for all I care! About the dress...as long as you're politely dressed, it's ok(don't go on a job interview in a short pants lol!). Further than that, I don't care. And...furniture? That's boring! If I have to fixsomething here or there, it's fine, but concern myself with furniture? O.O

    As for demo: I don't eat healthy(and am proud of it!), I eat TASTY! And I don't understand that someone wouldn't disinfect his wound. It's not even socio related, it's common knowledge! For crying out loud. And yes, I am upset if someone moves a stuff from where I left it(even if it was in a chaotic heap). As my dad used to say "it's chaos, but it's my chaos". Ok, he was seriously not concerned with Si(didn't visit a doctor for 10 years and had these heaps of wires everywhere). And I don't care either, but you really should go to a doctor at least 1 time / year. You never know what's brewing inside you. Maybe nothing, maybe something irrelevent and maybe cancer. A dentist(or any other specialisation of medicine for that matter)-> you should go when you start to feel the disturbance(when pain starts, it's too late). Why'd you go otherwise? Just because 1 year passed? LOL!

    Somehow I think that I am demo Si. Just for the measure:

    The difference between creative and ign Se?

  4. #4
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,227
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just to elaborate further, SEIs are more likely to show concern for other's Si issues due to their ethical nature, while SLIs are more concerned with their own. A difference I noticed between Si demos and Si ignoring is that the Si igns are more likely to "slip up" on Si related problems than Si demos. For example, Si igns seem to more inclined towards risky activities towards their health such as overdosing on drugs or engaging in dangerous sports like base jumping.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    557
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In general, I find what happens with the demonstrative function is that its "insights" more or less rarely conform to the principle of the IE in question, instead being subservient to the dominant. When S acquires its own energy in LSI, it operates in Se fashion.

    I gave the example earlier of ILE v LII and demonstrative Te... the ILE has stronger Te because their consciousness does not depreciate objects, and thus has more room for fixating on a logical fact as an object, as opposed to depreciating it as an object for structural relations it fits into.
    Concretely, this can amount to a greater tendency to have accumulated facts not fitting into a coherent structure, suggesting various potentialities...while devaluing the actual principle of Te.

    I explained this example because I'm just more familiar with it than the LSI/Si one, but I think analogously, there is a decent bit of accumulated Si data as part of their overall ST consciousness, just not much that isn't ultimately put into a logic-based framework.

  6. #6
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,470
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    Si Leading- Always telling others about what they should eat, concern for how themselves and others dress, constantly rearranging their homes.
    Si demonstrative- Not giving a shit about seeing the dentist, eating right, disinfecting wounds, having check-ups but somehow still being a pillar of health. Don't talk about decor to others but get angry when you try to rearrange their things because they unconsciously proud of their ability to do this themselves.

    Basically Si leading types constantly focused on their health and the design of their homes, while Si demonstratives seem not to give a shit but somehow still go on fine regardless.
    Didn't someone recently say SEIs arent' supposed to impose their opinions on others?
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  7. #7
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,470
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    A difference I noticed between Si demos and Si ignoring is that the Si igns are more likely to "slip up" on Si related problems than Si demos. For example, Si igns seem to more inclined towards risky activities towards their health such as overdosing on drugs or engaging in dangerous sports like base jumping.
    i've noticed this too... also Si-POLRs...
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  8. #8
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,892
    Mentioned
    732 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    When someone is sleeping and I start to feel that they are cold is that my Si role kicking in, for a moment, because I instantly remember what it feels like to wake up cold (I hate that feeling)? I wonder if that is why I put a blanket on them then go on with my own business without a second thought to their comfort.

    It is something I do even for people I don't even know well. I have also watched them throw the blanket off immediately without even waking. Makes me realize I am just reacting to what I am feeling since they obviously did not want a blanket on them. Then I look at the thermostat and see that it isn't that cold anyway for most people. I have a low threshold for temperature changes and pain.

    I am not always sure if my perception of these things are right by normal standards. When a doctor asks me to rate pain on a scale of 1 to 10 I often rate higher than the average person or so I have been told. After a surgery a few years ago I required so much pain medication the doctor asked if I was addicted to opiates. I wasn't at the time. The doctor could tell by my stress levels and response that I needed more and gave it to me.

    Weird thing is that I take little notice when I am comfortable unless I run my hand over something soft like a blanket and realize it feels nice. I also just got a memory foam for my bed and the first few days I was all impressed with the comfort level but now it seems I have adjusted to it and it is not something I easily differentiate from what it felt like before. Like I forgot what it felt like before now so can no longer feel the comparison like I did.

    Oh and I don't really want to eat most of the time since it feels more like a chore than a pleasure. There are a few things I do like though and I can conjure up the taste and texture if I really focus in on it. I have an easier time recalling intense sensory experiences and when I do I can have physical reactions in my body so I try not to focus on them because it can get uncomfortable.

    I am just curious about what Si feels like to a base or creative user.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    When someone is sleeping and I start to feel that they are cold is that my Si role kicking in, for a moment, because I instantly remember what it feels like to wake up cold (I hate that feeling)? I wonder if that is why I put a blanket on them then go on with my own business without a second thought to their comfort.

    It is something I do even for people I don't even know well. I have also watched them throw the blanket off immediately without even waking. Makes me realize I am just reacting to what I am feeling since they obviously did not want a blanket on them. Then I look at the thermostat and see that it isn't that cold anyway for most people. I have a low threshold for temperature changes and pain.

    I am not always sure if my perception of these things are right by normal standards. When a doctor asks me to rate pain on a scale of 1 to 10 I often rate higher than the average person or so I have been told. After a surgery a few years ago I required so much pain medication the doctor asked if I was addicted to opiates. I wasn't at the time. The doctor could tell by my stress levels and response that I needed more and gave it to me.

    Weird thing is that I take little notice when I am comfortable unless I run my hand over something soft like a blanket and realize it feels nice. I also just got a memory foam for my bed and the first few days I was all impressed with the comfort level but now it seems I have adjusted to it and it is not something I easily differentiate from what it felt like before. Like I forgot what it felt like before now so can no longer feel the comparison like I did.

    Oh and I don't really want to eat most of the time since it feels more like a chore than a pleasure. There are a few things I do like though and I can conjure up the taste and texture if I really focus in on it. I have an easier time recalling intense sensory experiences and when I do I can have physical reactions in my body so I try not to focus on them because it can get uncomfortable.

    I am just curious about what Si feels like to a base or creative user.
    Nice post. I am interested in that as well.

  10. #10

    Default

    Demonstrative: Vital
    Base: Mental

    • Vital functions - belonging to the vital (passive) ring of Model A. These functions are subconscious and subject to little conscious control. The world becomes known through own feelings and experiences, through a projection inside. The vital functions are characterized by subjectivity, idiosyncratic representation. The result is usually embodied in actions, through 1-signal system. The arguments are made from first-person.
    • Mental functions - belonging to to the mental (active) ring of Model A. These functions are controlled by consciousness. The world and self is seen through these functions as if from outside, striving for objectivity and universality. The given information is impersonal, manifested in verbal form, on level of 2-signal system.


    Demonstrative: Producing
    Base: Accepting

    • Producing functions - These function as means of changing the reality. Being located in the model after the accepting functions, producing functions find solutions to the tasks set before them. Thus, they do not merely reflect the reality, as accepting functions do, but generate an altered, imagined picture of the world, which serves as a solution of their tasks.
    • Accepting functions - These function as means of learning about the surrounding world. These are the first functions in the model to receive information from the outside. Their task is to obtain a model of reality, their goal - to understand what is transpiring.


    Demonstrative: Contact
    Base: Inert

    • Contact functions - These functions are very mobile and able to manage their state well. It is through these functions that a primary reaction to an outside impact is developed. They produce an initial processing of information received, they also generate final decisions. Thus, their activity is determined by what's transpiring around or current tasks, among which they can easily switch.
    • Inert (reference) functions - These functions are rather rigid in their functioning; they are almost immune to internal changes. They require an external impulse of sufficient strength so that something in them changes. They are characterized by fairly long response, and often a fixate on the state to which the external impact has led. Thus they tend towards relative permanence.


    Demonstrative: Non-Verbal
    Base: Verbal

    • Non-verbal (working, cooperative) functions belong to the blocks of super-ego and id. Aspects of these functions are not negotiable, prefer to receive help through action, deeds. Activity is limited to immediate needs and demands of society.
    • Verbal (discursive) functions (or overvalued) belong to clusters of ego and super-Id. They provide the active exchange of information between people. Information on these functions is interesting, and easily discussed. They tend to self-development.

  11. #11
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,786
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    ?

  13. #13
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,470
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Silke can you explain what is demonstrative Si in there? Sorry for my feeble Ni...(or Ti..or just brain...)
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  14. #14
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,892
    Mentioned
    732 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    Nice post. I am interested in that as well.
    I looked it up and not much available as far as descriptions but I think I can get an overall idea of what it means. I just really wanted to hear more from Si base and creative to understand what they are actually experiencing inside themselves. Si seems like some kind of internal intuition of senses but I am not sure if they have the ability to feel the inner sensations of others too. I guess that might be some kind of sensory empathy. I do have that but mostly it feels unpleasant. I know I prefer being in my mind over my body. My body feels more limited and I feel like I need a guide to operate it. People with strong Se serve as a guide sometimes.

    When I was younger I had a doctor refuse to do an elective surgery on me because of my oversensitivity to pain and and allergies. After our consultation she came right out and said she would never operate on me and suggested I did not go to someone else to do that particular surgery. I didn't because I got a feeling she knew something I didn't. I wonder if she was using Si to determine that. I took her pretty serious after imagining what it might feel like if I did it. I felt like I could not breath. It was like being buried alive. The whole thing was horrible to experience through Si. I am happy I chose not to do it now and happy with my nose. It gives me a unique look and people of my ethnicity recognize me as one of their own. hahah I don't want to think about all the things that could have gone wrong. I wanted to fix something that wasn't broke and because I listened to her I think I spared myself from experiencing something really awful. I just trusted her. I want to add that she did not scare me. She gave me a reality check.


    Descriptions make Si sound like a party.

    Wikisocion description of Si

    Introverted sensing () is an irrational, introverted, and dynamic information element. It is also referred to as Si, S, experiential sensing, or white sensing.

    Si is associated with the ability to internalize sensations and to experience them in full detail.
    Si focuses on tangible, direct (external) connections (introverted) between processes (dynamic) happening in one time, i.e. the physical, sensual experience of interactions between objects. This leads to an awareness of internal tangible physical states and how various physical fluctuations or substances are directly transferred between objects, such as motion, temperature, or dirtiness. The awareness of these tangible physical processes consequently leads to an awareness of health, or an optimum balance with one's environment. The individual physical reaction to concrete surroundings is main way we perceive and define aesthetics, comfort, convenience, and pleasure.

    In contrast to extroverted sensing Se, Si is related to following one's own needs instead of focusing on some externally-driven conception of what is necessary to acquire or achieve. So, whereas Se ego types feel capable to evaluate how justified others' preferences are, Si ego types will try to adjust to them in any way possible (given that it does not extremely affect their own comfort), wishing to minimize conflict.

    In contrast to introverted intuition Ni, Si is about direct interaction and unity (or discord) with one's surroundings, rather than abstract process and causal links.

    Types that value Si prefer to spend their time doing enjoyable activities rather than straining themselves to achieve goals. They like to believe that if activities are done with enjoyment, people will give them more effort and time, and also becoming more skilled at what they are doing in the long run. They believe that goals should suit people's intrinsic needs rather than shaped by the demands and constraints of the external world, and so do not try to force others into doing things they don't want to do. They also try to be easygoing and pleasant, preferring peaceful coexistence to conflict, except when their personal well-being or comfort is directly at stake.

    as a base (1st) function (SEI and SLI)

    A strong ability to recognize internal physical states in themselves and others, to understand how these states are reached, and to recreate and avoid these physical states.

    Individuals who possess as a base function are drawn to situations that satisfy their inner physical experience. Whenever base function individuals are taking part in something that involves recognizing, recreating, or analyzing physical states, they feel a great deal of personal power and enthusiasm.

    The avoidance of discomfort is one of the primary motivations of these types. Feelings of internal discomfort can arise from a tense psychological atmosphere, working too hard and sapping the body's resources, being pressured by other people or by numerous "things to do," and from unsatiated or oversatiated physical needs. These types tend to quickly recognize and be quite vocal about discomfort that arises and either take clever measures to dissipate it or simply get out of whatever is bothering them. They are very receptive to other people sharing feelings of discomfort with them and can help alleviate the tension and offer good solutions.

    leading types are constantly adjusting themselves to their environment (which includes the people around them), and rarely have any fixed ideas about what is "appropriate" to desire in a given situation. Thus they are willing to accommodate other people's needs in an ad hoc manner. It is enough for something to "feel right" for them to justify doing it. This behavior may seem random to outside observers, since it is concomitant with weak .

    as a creative (2nd) function (ESE and LSE)

    The individual is naturally good at organizing relaxing activities and recreation and making sure people are calm and enjoying themselves, but displays this behavior and skill when he sees a specific need for it rather than doing it automatically, all the time. The individual does not place emphasis on being calm and balanced all the time, as opposed to those with as a leading function.

    The individual is attuned to people's tastes and personal preferences and likes to do things for or give things to friends and family members that will cause them to enjoy themselves and gain pleasure. For example, creating a comfortable, clean, and spacious setting in the home, taking them out to do something they enjoy, or finding opportunities and people with whom they can pursue their hobbies.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  15. #15
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,892
    Mentioned
    732 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    Silke can you explain what is demonstrative Si in there? Sorry for my feeble Ni...(or Ti..or just brain...)
    My guess it has something to do with making fun of physical states in some way. It kind of creeps me out but I really don't get what Amber is referencing in that particular post. I get most of the underlying meanings/references in her other posts like that.


    as a demonstrative (8th) function (LSI and ESI)

    The individual is confident of his ability to recognize and evaluate the physical condition and well-being of himself and others, aesthetic sensations, and the internal effects of sensory stimulants such as good food and relaxing situations. He can provide a convincing evaluation of these when prompted, however, he regards soothing, relaxing things and discussions of them as sources of amusement rather than a priority in life. He does not treat them very seriously or allow himself to engage in them very often, despite his overall confidence in these areas. When he does choose to focus attention on his physical condition and well-being, he is more likely to prefer a approach and impose a strict, demanding dietary or exercise regimen upon himself or others.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  16. #16

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    I am not concerned what others should eat lol. It's their body! They can mutilate it for all I care! About the dress...as long as you're politely dressed, it's ok(don't go on a job interview in a short pants lol!). Further than that, I don't care. And...furniture? That's boring! If I have to fixsomething here or there, it's fine, but concern myself with furniture? O.O

    As for demo: I don't eat healthy(and am proud of it!), I eat TASTY! And I don't understand that someone wouldn't disinfect his wound. It's not even socio related, it's common knowledge! For crying out loud. And yes, I am upset if someone moves a stuff from where I left it(even if it was in a chaotic heap). As my dad used to say "it's chaos, but it's my chaos". Ok, he was seriously not concerned with Si(didn't visit a doctor for 10 years and had these heaps of wires everywhere). And I don't care either, but you really should go to a doctor at least 1 time / year. You never know what's brewing inside you. Maybe nothing, maybe something irrelevent and maybe cancer. A dentist(or any other specialisation of medicine for that matter)-> you should go when you start to feel the disturbance(when pain starts, it's too late). Why'd you go otherwise? Just because 1 year passed? LOL!

    Somehow I think that I am demo Si.
    I can see why you think demonstrative Si for yourself, I'm kinda really like this myself.

    Lol @ chaos thing, btw.


    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    Si Leading- Always telling others about what they should eat, concern for how themselves and others dress, constantly rearranging their homes.Si demonstrative- Not giving a shit about seeing the dentist, eating right, disinfecting wounds, having check-ups but somehow still being a pillar of health. Don't talk about decor to others but get angry when you try to rearrange their things because they unconsciously proud of their ability to do this themselves. Basically Si leading types constantly focused on their health and the design of their homes, while Si demonstratives seem not to give a shit but somehow still go on fine regardless.
    I actually give a bit more shit than that about my health, that description of Si demonstrative by you is overly exaggerated but it's definitely true that I don't verbalize these things and don't pay much conscious attention in general. I do look like I don't give a shit often but I actually take care of all important issues in some really reliable automatic -unconscious- way. The not important issues...well I truly don't give a shit about those lol.

    As for getting angry like that, yep, very much true, though I can't say if that's Si demonstrative or Se creative or what.


    A difference I noticed between Si demos and Si ignoring is that the Si igns are more likely to "slip up" on Si related problems than Si demos. For example, Si igns seem to more inclined towards risky activities towards their health such as overdosing on drugs or engaging in dangerous sports like base jumping.
    Agree

    Though I can't say I never did anything risky, lol, I'm just probably a bit more calculated than the Si ignoring/Se base types

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    In general, I find what happens with the demonstrative function is that its "insights" more or less rarely conform to the principle of the IE in question, instead being subservient to the dominant. When S acquires its own energy in LSI, it operates in Se fashion.
    That's a very good way to put it. I would say the demonstrative is like the basic auxiliary in jungian theory, same orientation as the dominant function and subservient to it. The creative function, well, that's an auxiliary that's more independent in a sense than the demonstrative and thus provides for completeness of the ego, I think... so you wouldn't be an extreme introvert or extreme extravert. Hmm just a thought though, it seems logical but I don't know if it's universally true like this.


    I gave the example earlier of ILE v LII and demonstrative Te... the ILE has stronger Te because their consciousness does not depreciate objects, and thus has more room for fixating on a logical fact as an object, as opposed to depreciating it as an object for structural relations it fits into.
    Concretely, this can amount to a greater tendency to have accumulated facts not fitting into a coherent structure, suggesting various potentialities...while devaluing the actual principle of Te.

    I explained this example because I'm just more familiar with it than the LSI/Si one, but I think analogously, there is a decent bit of accumulated Si data as part of their overall ST consciousness, just not much that isn't ultimately put into a logic-based framework.
    I think both examples are fine, sure.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    557
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Myst yeah so like, the aux has a dual nature almost, because it's both "opposite" the dominant in the sense of perceiving-judging yet it also can complement it.

    To just talk generic Jung and not get into the more detailed socionics model, this is e.g. relevant in a super-logic oriented thinking dominant, with aux sensation, where sure, they aim to be empirical, but they're pretty removed from non-logical content (raw direct experience and so forth).

    It seems to me a reasonable argument to make that if the aux is going to get its own energy, without usurping the dominant, it might be that one has to develop its opposite attitude to a degree, which is the explanation for why the creative seems to actually work in a lot of cases.

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    @Myst yeah so like, the aux has a dual nature almost, because it's both "opposite" the dominant in the sense of perceiving-judging yet it also can complement it.

    To just talk generic Jung and not get into the more detailed socionics model, this is e.g. relevant in a super-logic oriented thinking dominant, with aux sensation, where sure, they aim to be empirical, but they're pretty removed from non-logical content (raw direct experience and so forth).

    It seems to me a reasonable argument to make that if the aux is going to get its own energy, without usurping the dominant, it might be that one has to develop its opposite attitude to a degree, which is the explanation for why the creative seems to actually work in a lot of cases.
    Yeah. I forgot to say that this jungian aux is also supposed to be unconscious which fits with the socionics demonstrative function neatly. While the creative is conscious and again that fits with what I/you said..

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    557
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yeah the thing is Jung's views on the aux's "consciousness" were stated kind of trickily, like there's two things going on

    -- the aux he sometimes portrayed as "conscious" in the sense of becoming conscious by working towards the dominant agenda

    -- yet he also potrayed it as more on the unconscious side in the sense that it (to the extent it's an aux, and not a second "mode") doesn't operate for its own principle's sake

    The latter's presumably what we're both seeing as the demonstrative, and the former is what we're seeing as when it gains its own energy.

    But the funny thing is I think to Jung's perspective, in both cases the aux shared the attitude of the dominant, and the two cases were more or less two different ways of using the terminology unfortunately.
    The case when he called the aux unconscious seems to be the case it was opposite in attitude.

    But afaik nowadays I'm leaning something more along the lines of what we're both saying, in that I prefer saying when the two top functions are both in the same attitude, and significantly differentiated, more likely there are two "modes" going on.

    The reason being, I get the sense when initially, dom is one attitude, aux is (unconscious) in another attitude, seems to me to raise it to consciousness, 2 things need to happen:

    1) naturally since the main attitude is in one direction, say introverted, the demonstrative needs to be a reasonably active process, even if its perspective's de-emphasied
    2) the portion that was unconscious and in the opposite attitude need be raised to consciousness as is, since that opposition of attitude was needed for the aux to maintain its own independence.


    Lol sorry this was longer than expected, and kind of rehashes some things. Just mentioning it because strongly have felt Jung was hard to read on this point
    Last edited by chemical; 07-12-2015 at 10:32 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •