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Thread: Is it possible to change your sociotype?

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    Default Is it possible to change your sociotype?

    Is it possible to become another type, either through conscious effort, or just because of certain circumstances? for example if you were surrounded by people of the opposing quadra, could you become your quasi-identical type? like an IEE becoming EIE..

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    no

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    ^ why not?

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    please refer to jung's Structure and Dynamics of the Psyche for the answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    please refer to jung's Structure and Dynamics of the Psyche for the answer.
    Be careful what you refer to. It was Jung who said that types do change through the life. But I am referencing Jung's PT, so maybe we're not talking bout the same thing?

    But then again, I'd say that sociotype is much, mcuh deeper than MBTI type. MBTI type is mostly a reflection of your current behaviour, outlooks on life etc. Sociotype includes many, many deep things. You won't suddenly change your +/- reinin. You will either notice absence or presence. You don't change that. The same goes for ratio/irratio, static/dynamic etc. There aren't such things in MBTI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    Be careful what you refer to. It was Jung who said that types do change through the life. But I am referencing Jung's PT, so maybe we're not talking bout the same thing?

    But then again, I'd say that sociotype is much, mcuh deeper than MBTI type. MBTI type is mostly a reflection of your current behaviour, outlooks on life etc. Sociotype includes many, many deep things. You won't suddenly change your +/- reinin. You will either notice absence or presence. You don't change that. The same goes for ratio/irratio, static/dynamic etc. There aren't such things in MBTI.
    reinin is bs

    MBTI is supposed to be about the cognitive processing too but many people misinterpret it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    reinin is bs

    MBTI is supposed to be about the cognitive processing too but many people misinterpret it
    But Reinin is not BS. It helps to form a clear cognitive profile. Just read Gulenko's Cognitive article. Things like that are what I'm looking for in typology.
    (ok some could be{ like, say, aristo/demo...nobody was able to quite decipher that one }. But others are very helpful{ st/dyn, +/-, left/right, constr/emote .}

    And yes, I like Jung's version of MBTI very much. I also happen to think that if you mixed socionic ideas(P1 J1 P2 J2 instead of P1 J1 J2 P2) with his ideas(Pi Ji Pe Je) it'd have been nigh perfect

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    Apparently it is quite easy to do. Change three little letters and some people will respond to you differently than they did a day earlier. :/

    I don't imagine that I will or even can change my base cognitive function. It is the way I have processed information my whole life. This is me and I am tired of fighting against my nature. I am never going to be a logical type (which probably would be my second choice as it seems easier when it comes to having ideas heard) and I am fine with that. I can exercise weaker functions but even that gets tiring after a while if it isn't serving a useful purpose and points to promising results in the long run.

    To answer your question. In hopes of becoming more logical I surrounded myself with logical types for a long time. I guess I hoped I would be heard and they would embrace my ideas or some of their logic would rub off. It did but not enough to make an impact on my type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    To answer your question. In hopes of becoming more logical I surrounded myself with logical types for a long time. I guess I hoped I would be heard and they would embrace my ideas or some of their logic would rub off. It did but not enough to make an impact on my type.
    I myself still struggle with Logical type envy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    I myself still struggle with Logical type envy.
    I blame this on the 4w5 curse! That envy will always be right under the surface for me but at least we can acknowledge it and that is progress in the process of greater self awareness.

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    I think you have to look at yourself when you are/were 18 or something. The type never changes but we get masks over time. A wannabe LSE here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Apparently it is quite easy to do. Change three little letters and some people will respond to you differently than they did a day earlier. :/
    Yeah, you can pretend to be someone you're not to be treated differently, but your basic type is part of who you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    Be careful what you refer to. It was Jung who said that types do change through the life. But I am referencing Jung's PT, so maybe we're not talking bout the same thing?

    But then again, I'd say that sociotype is much, mcuh deeper than MBTI type. MBTI type is mostly a reflection of your current behaviour, outlooks on life etc. Sociotype includes many, many deep things. You won't suddenly change your +/- reinin. You will either notice absence or presence. You don't change that. The same goes for ratio/irratio, static/dynamic etc. There aren't such things in MBTI.
    i never said type doesn't change. i said, for the answer, refer to <insert book name> by <insert author>.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    i never said type doesn't change. i said, for the answer, refer to <insert book name> by <insert author>.
    Very much sorry. I am not even sure if it's the same book(most likely it isn't). God dam my Ne and inability to perceive when I should/should not comment.

    Again, sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    I think you have to look at yourself when you are/were 18 or something. The type never changes but we get masks over time. A wannabe LSE here.
    Imagine if you were somewhere between age 10 and 14 for the clearest result imo. Too bad that so much happened since then that I barely remember myself(yet, funny enough, I remember most everyone else...).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    I think you have to look at yourself when you are/were 18 or something. The type never changes but we get masks over time. A wannabe LSE here.
    Hmm, my logical envy seems more directed to ILI types. I would not give up Ni to be logical base so the logical choice for that is ILI.

    Going by stories of my childhood I have used Ni by default since I was a toddler. I also used a lot of Fe, when it was necessary, to strengthen my connection to others and fit in more. Without Fe I am not sure if I would have ever formed any friendships at all because I would have been more timid and stayed locked in my own reality that existed independent of others. I just wanted to be left alone for most of my early childhood.

    I didn't even want to go outside and play with other children and had to be forced to do so most of the time. I did have fun, usually. once I was forced as long as I could stop and come inside when I wanted. Being forced into social situations upset and made me angry but I finally decided to give everyone what they wanted and then they didn't like it. They would have prefered to have me back the way I was. My personality has grown over the years and there have been many changes. The way I naturally process information has not. When forced to go outside my natural processes it stresses my system and I get cranky/frustrated, stubborn or rebellious.

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    i personally think type shifting is possible to some extent. what extent, and for how long, and if it matters, and why... i don't know. maybe it's just my own warped view, but i think lead and role are fairly fluent. changing from EII to SLE or something--that i might see as maybe too much of a change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly View Post
    ^ why not?
    no it's like changing your gender type, it's impossible.

    also as a proof: if you have typed a lot of people you start to notice similarities in their face appearances, it's called VI. So if you would change type you would also change physically, which is impossible.

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    Socionic type is inborn, I can type newborn babies only by temperament because their physically features are fresh, but I can still type babies less than the age of 1 yrs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader View Post
    Socionic type is inborn, I can type newborn babies only by temperament because their physically features are fresh, but I can still type babies less than the age of 1 yrs.
    how many babies have you typed, godfather?

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    ...Lol. A lot. I have little cousins and I knew their type, some right off the bat, others took time for me to realize (the more people you type, the better, because you have a reference to refer back to). Or baby pictures of people I know, they looked their type.

    But it is harder because their features are still forming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    But Reinin is not BS. It helps to form a clear cognitive profile. Just read Gulenko's Cognitive article. Things like that are what I'm looking for in typology.
    (ok some could be{ like, say, aristo/demo...nobody was able to quite decipher that one }. But others are very helpful{ st/dyn, +/-, left/right, constr/emote .}

    And yes, I like Jung's version of MBTI very much. I also happen to think that if you mixed socionic ideas(P1 J1 P2 J2 instead of P1 J1 J2 P2) with his ideas(Pi Ji Pe Je) it'd have been nigh perfect
    Eh static/dynamic are ok but many other dichotomies just don't seem to align always as neatly as the theory claims. The cogstyles aren't bad but I have not seen enough proof for those either, tho' it works in the few examples I've analysed incl. myself.

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    As for type change, I don't think it'd be easy. Where's the reward for the brain in changing its ways of processing information? External circumstances can force you to adapt but that's not the same thing as operating in the optimal mode, which would be along your type if considering only the information processing within the framework of socionics.

    My own experience, I temporarily went from LSI-Se to LSI-Ti subtype in a period of my life and I definitely prefer the former though I'm ok in both modes. That was not a full type change either, it was just emphasis shifting yet I notice the differences in terms of what's optimal for me.

    @inumbra I find it hard to imagine to go to role function permanently to switch it into ego block, I'm curious why you feel that's possible, explain please if you can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Hmm, my logical envy seems more directed to ILI types. I would not give up Ni to be logical base so the logical choice for that is ILI.

    Going by stories of my childhood I have used Ni by default since I was a toddler. I also used a lot of Fe, when it was necessary, to strengthen my connection to others and fit in more. Without Fe I am not sure if I would have ever formed any friendships at all because I would have been more timid and stayed locked in my own reality that existed independent of others. I just wanted to be left alone for most of my early childhood.

    I didn't even want to go outside and play with other children and had to be forced to do so most of the time. I did have fun, usually. once I was forced as long as I could stop and come inside when I wanted. Being forced into social situations upset and made me angry but I finally decided to give everyone what they wanted and then they didn't like it. They would have prefered to have me back the way I was. My personality has grown over the years and there have been many changes. The way I naturally process information has not. When forced to go outside my natural processes it stresses my system and I get cranky/frustrated, stubborn or rebellious.
    I don't think you should take my LSE comment that seriously, that was just a joke.

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    LOL@EVERYTHING.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    I don't think you should take my LSE comment that seriously, that was just a joke.
    LSE struggle to change their hairstyle never mind their type

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Eh static/dynamic are ok but many other dichotomies just don't seem to align always as neatly as the theory claims. The cogstyles aren't bad but I have not seen enough proof for those either, tho' it works in the few examples I've analysed incl. myself.
    They work on me as well. I can think in an algorithmic way, but it's not my natural way. My most natural way being looking from another perspective, on the other hand etc. That's the primary reason why I even came here. Why I will stay? ... I'm not into philosophy tyvm! Eh, right! I'm decidedly a holographic cognition, so you can count me as well for cog.styles.

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    You never really change type, but you may use other functions well enough to deviate from your mean. There will always be a tendency toward one type over the course of one's life. I think there is a certain fluidity to personality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    I don't think you should take my LSE comment that seriously, that was just a joke.
    I didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    @inumbra I find it hard to imagine to go to role function permanently to switch it into ego block, I'm curious why you feel that's possible, explain please if you can.
    well, i find myself floating between my leading and role anyway. perhaps we are not all born for model A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader View Post
    Socionic type is inborn, I can type newborn babies only by temperament because their physically features are fresh, but I can still type babies less than the age of 1 yrs.
    yes regular psychology also states that temperament is something you get born with and can't change. Changing type would also often imply changing temperament, which is impossible hence type change is impossible.

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    this thread is the perfect example of how this forum is basically dead with regards to constructive worthwhile material.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    this thread is the perfect example of how this forum is basically dead with regards to constructive worthwhile material.
    you could post some?

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    you could post some?
    because of the incredibly warm reception from the shit-brigade (you and myst) i'm probably not going to do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    yes regular psychology also states that temperament is something you get born with and can't change. Changing type would also often imply changing temperament, which is impossible hence type change is impossible.
    I have no idea if any of this is true,, but I'm sure whatever is said in actual psychology has nothing to do with socionics temperament, BUT to do with altruistic temperament etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    because of the incredibly warm reception from the shit-brigade (you and myst) i'm probably not going to do that.
    thanks for deciding i'm going to give you shit and that myst and i will be in agreement on everything... ??? this is why i don't like talking to you usually about socionics. you use put downs. it's what caused me to get annoyed the first time we tried talking about socionics. i keep hoping you'll stop.

    to elaborate further on my thoughts about type change. model A is that--a model. models are not matches to reality. i don't have boxes in my head for functions. models only try to approximate reality in their limited capacity.

    my basic thought about type change... is why not?
    Last edited by inumbra; 06-09-2015 at 07:54 PM.

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    I think there is a great way to explain the possibility for type change--

    Self knowledge, or learning about oneself, can make you see what was there all along. A more complete self

    Then there is how the community sees you, as reflection of self, the reflection of self in others; I am you-

    Of course not knowing one's self is at play here, and lifelong self discovery so on and so forth, although a solidified ego is apparent at age 7, to my knowledge

    We also can account for change by disorders in the personality, in the psyche and perhaps even medications, alcohol

    I think as a person grows and evolves, weaker functions become utilized in a different way, a person could prefer the creative function for example, even strengthen the third--

    A person if dualized, they're likely to be more of 'themselves'

    A lot of people here show and prove that enneagram can supplement Socionics type to help account for areas Socionics is weaker in or misses;

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    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    They work on me as well. I can think in an algorithmic way, but it's not my natural way. My most natural way being looking from another perspective, on the other hand etc. That's the primary reason why I even came here. Why I will stay? ... I'm not into philosophy tyvm! Eh, right! I'm decidedly a holographic cognition, so you can count me as well for cog.styles.
    When I said gamma SF for you I didn't realize yet that you actually switched to self typing of ESI


    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    well, i find myself floating between my leading and role anyway. perhaps we are not all born for model A.
    Sure. Ni and Si, I guess?


    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
    I think there is a great way to explain the possibility for type change--

    Self knowledge, or learning about oneself, can make you see what was there all along. A more complete self
    I don't think self knowledge on its own will change deeply ingrained information processing aspects

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    When I said gamma SF for you I didn't realize yet that you actually switched to self typing of ESI

    Why? Is there anything wrong? I happen to think that NiTe's are the best typists and I've been typed as an ESI by one. Besides the matter, if only I could self type myself beautifully like I did Palpatine. So I just go through Reinins + JCF and et voila! If only! But I don't see myself as clearly as I see my family or a guy on street or the awesome guy(Palpatine...what? The guy brought Order to WHOLE GALAXY! Besides the point...he devised a dream, fulfilled it and lived his dream { WOW! }. If only I had that gall...). Why can't I self type accurately? Is it normal?


    Sure. Ni and Si, I guess?




    I don't think self knowledge on its own will change deeply ingrained information processing aspects
    Answer in teal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly View Post
    Is it possible to become another type, either through conscious effort, or just because of certain circumstances? for example if you were surrounded by people of the opposing quadra, could you become your quasi-identical type? like an IEE becoming EIE..
    there's a Prokofiev/Kamenev article which proposes that people can wear "masks" of another type different from their own. it discusses the idea that people can temporarily act like another type (even of an opposing quadra, like you suggest), or wear a "mask" for a long time (but this basically amounts to suppression of one's "true" type, ultimately causing neuroses and internal conflict over the long term). of course, the assumption of this article is that people have a "true" type that never really changes.

    i tend to think that a "permanent" type change (not simply wearing a "mask") may come from some kind of extreme trauma that results in rewiring of the brain. you've probably heard of those cases when people suffer extensive brain damage, survive it, but come back as an entirely different person after their brain rewires itself to a functioning state. it's not hard to imagine that these people might come back as entirely different types than they were before.

    extreme trauma could include not only physical, but emotional damage that may change the brain and personality. i wonder if people who have dissociations, i.e. "multiple personalities" are experiencing type change when they switch identities. the affect of trauma on personality is also mentioned by Carl Jung in the article above, on how children might adopt a different type due to "strong and abnormal" parental influence:
    "Under abnormal conditions, that is, where there is extremely strong and abnormal influence from their mothers, children can have violence done to their individual predispositions (relative to normal influence), which perhaps would choose another type, if not prevented by these abnormal external conditions."
    "Trauma Resets Personality" article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ts-personality

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