Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Gamma types and optimism

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Gamma types and optimism

    Why is everything I read about Gamma(especially ESI) so gloomy and depressing? Can this quadra actually be, you know, optimistic and find a silver lining etc? Because if not, how can they operate like it? And the fact that all violent, depressing things are crammed into this quadra(GoT, Vikings etc). Man, I long for the time of Conan-when blood was spilled, bad guy was defeated(most likely decapitated), a girl conquered and everything was just fine afterwards. Unlike the Game of Trash, a book + show written by a clearly sick mind(who is in it purely for $$$). There even if a big bad is defeated the torture porn continues. WTF.

    Long story short: Optimism-here or other quadras?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    I have several Gamma friends and yes, Gammas can be optimistic. Don't forget that Aushra was likely ILE, and a lot of her early writings about socionics heavily influenced and shaped the perception favorably toward Alphas and unfavorably for Gammas.

    Gamma optimism is more 'realistic' than Alphas. It's not 'light' or 'fluffy' or strictly mood-based. Gamma optimism reflects on true happiness and positive feelings in life - they are much less inclined to fake being happier for any external show, and would rather be true and honest with how they feel. Which can sometimes be bad, sometimes be good. Furthermore, even when they are feeling happy and in a good mood - they are less inclined to show it or express it they way you might expect an Fe-valuing extrovert. I've found that being able to read body language better and navigate through any Fi-outbursts or tantrums of Gammas reveals underneath the same inner optimism and self-respect found in all human beings.
    It's funny. I see Alphas particularly, no offense to you, as walking inconsistency and bag of crap. I fully well know what it means to be Alpha due to me living in an Alpha state! A state where they instead of working on problems and setting the future straight for our children...they fight over history and some petty sentiments. Foolish imo. It moulded my views as well.

    And yes, I prefer to find silver lining and keep it to myself, yes. And let it guide me through the life. Fe? Pah! I haven't got time for that!

    edit: I'd argue that most slavic nations are Alpha based.

  3. #3
    lynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    TIM
    IEI-Fe 4-5/6-9 so/sx
    Posts
    764
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    that reminds me the one time when i was in a subway with a few other people who didn't know each other well (just from the same professional background) but had to socialise with each other. at some point all the gammas flocked together (they were all social blindspot and dressed in black and businesslike, and looked extremely serious even though they are artists and not lawyers or whatever) and it was like watching a gathering for a funeral. it was a really heavy atmosphere just for light socialising in a subway until everyone arrives at the next location. next to them was a crowd of betas who were very passionate and dramatic. it was really cool to see the contrast.

    edit: oh, and about the optimism thing.
    i told an ILI (after the end of a long project) that we should say goodbye, and that we will probably never see each other again, because it's just not very likely.
    to which he responded surprised: what? but i know that we will all see each other again. i will see each of you again at some point in my life. it's bound to happen.
    ^^

  4. #4
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    lol I don't think that all violent and depressing things are crammed in any quadra. Optimism is a state of mine that one, an individual, comes to hold by choice.

  5. #5
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,465
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    .they fight over history and some petty sentiments.
    Why is that Alpha?


    ...

    LIEs are often described as one of the most optimistic and least cynical types in the socion.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Why is that Alpha?


    ...

    LIEs are often described as one of the most optimistic and least cynical types in the socion.
    Oh sorry, that's SiFe in MBTI. I get carried away.

    I was wondering why everyone paints an ESI as a moody, gloomy owl. Who has a gray vision lol(bordering on d.gray). If I am an ESI, which I hold true, yes I have BnW Outlook(my computer broke see ), but I am NOT a pessimist. Not even nearly. I am somewhere between Realist and Optimist, slightly leaning towards optimist.

    Is that just another stereotype?

  7. #7
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,465
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    Oh sorry, that's SiFe in MBTI. I get carried away.

    I was wondering why everyone paints an ESI as a moody, gloomy owl. Who has a gray vision lol(bordering on d.gray). If I am an ESI, which I hold true, yes I have BnW Outlook(my computer broke see ), but I am NOT a pessimist. Not even nearly. I am somewhere between Realist and Optimist, slightly leaning towards optimist.

    Is that just another stereotype?
    IIRC, the socionist Filatova believes that optimism is a product of happiness and of being a well-adjusted individual.

    My own experience suggests that, while Filatova is mostly correct, type adds some nuance to the equation. An LIE probably has a more constructive outlook on life compared to a critical and sarcastic, though equally happy, ILI.

    I shouldn't comment on ESIs as I don't know too many.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    IIRC, the socionist Filatova believes that optimism is a product of happiness and of being a well-adjusted individual.

    My own experience suggests that, while Filatova is mostly correct, type adds some nuance to the equation. An LIE probably has a more constructive outlook on life compared to a critical and sarcastic, though equally happy, ILI.

    I shouldn't comment on ESIs as I don't know too many.
    idk many more besides myself. That's why I asked...

  9. #9
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    2,526
    Mentioned
    374 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I know several LIE's, ILI'S, ESI's, and one or two SEE's, and we are all fairly optimistic, we just don't show it much. As an ESI said to me, there is a difference between not having feelings and not talking about them.

    In regard to ESI's seeming gloomy and depressed, I would say they are serious (when they are not kidding around) and are cautiously realistic. As an LIE, I am so optimistic that I sometimes overlook reality in my desire to make something happen. Since an ESI is my Dual, they tend to be more cautious, and provide a counter-argument to my unbounded optimism. But that does not make them gloomy. At least in my book, it does not. It makes them a valuable companion.

    My sister is an Alpha LII, and she is depressed most of the time, possibly clinically. Of course, she is chronically sick and is married to a Delta which makes things difficult, but I'm just saying that Gamma's don't have a corner on the depression market, on a case-by-case basis.

    I was once talking to a shrink about people with depression, and how they view the world as a place with no opportunities and with no desire. He told me that depressed people actually test as being more accurately objective than normal people. That is, they see the world as it really is, and not as they wish it would be. (I assume the tests that were used to determine this measured something that is objectively quantifiable.) Since Gamma's do tend to view the world realistically, supposedly through Se, one might assume that the more Se they have, the more realistic they are, and the more pessimistic they appear.

    In my experience, ILI's are the most pessimistic, then the ESI's, and the LIE's are most optimistic (not enough data for SEE's), which kind of shoots down my theory of Se, but there you have it.

    There's plenty of information on optimism in different Quadras in a Quadra progression article on this site, I think.

  10. #10
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    867
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    There's no possible way I would make the decision to let history cloud my vision of a better future. It only informs and tempers. But I would discriminate against types of people instead of their cultures, because culture is meaningless in the end, and what matters is what people are doing now and can be expected to do.

    I don't really understand the endpoint of game of thrones. It's almost book 6 and there are no leading trends picking up steam, just a whole bunch of people doing random stuff. Kinda disappointing, but we'll see.

    I think gammas are more comfortable with the darker side of things(what I'd consider the darker side of things), it's where they feel their flesh. But optimism...well I have to say I don't think LIE's have naive optimism, which makes a world of difference.

  11. #11
    strangeling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,704
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    SEEs and LIEs can be pretty optimistic. SEEs seem to like playing with people, while LIEs seem to enjoy the intellectual stimulation they get from being around different people. ESIs and ILIs seem a bit more reserved, cautious, and guarded, but they are also introverts so it kind of follows. I don't agree with the idea that only Alpha and Betas like having a positive group atmosphere, because that's not true, but Gammas and Deltas do seem to prefer being around people they have some kind of bond or connection with.

  12. #12
    Chains's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,306
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Optimistic when the odds are in my favor, pessimistic when against. Otherwise, a realist.

  13. #13
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,631
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    what are you talking about, ESE-ILE-SEE-LIE are the optimistic-i-do-whatever-i-want-with-my-life types in the socion.

    by contrast LII-SEI-ILI-ESI are the depressed-i-have-to-do-my-duty-forever types.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    what are you talking about, ESE-ILE-SEE-LIE are the optimistic-i-do-whatever-i-want-with-my-life types in the socion.

    by contrast LII-SEI-ILI-ESI are the depressed-i-have-to-do-my-duty-forever types.
    Where do EII fall on happiness metre?

  15. #15
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,388
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    agreed with those that pointed out how optimistic the Gamma extroverts typically are. they are the ones with a natural "can-do" approach and a good attitude that rubs off on others. even less competent SEEs and LIEs can be successful with a "fake it 'til you make it" approach (;

  16. #16
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,470
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    agreed with those that pointed out how optimistic the Gamma extroverts typically are. they are the ones with a natural "can-do" approach and a good attitude that rubs off on others. even less competent SEEs and LIEs can be successful with a "fake it 'til you make it" approach (;
    our very own @woofwoofl embodies this, as well as @Narc and @wacey to name a few
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  17. #17
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    867
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    what are you talking about, ESE-ILE-SEE-LIE are the optimistic-i-do-whatever-i-want-with-my-life types in the socion.

    by contrast LII-SEI-ILI-ESI are the depressed-i-have-to-do-my-duty-forever types.
    that is a type​ of optimism. which would be helpful to clarify. what sort of optimism are we talking about? the OP was rather...nondescript

  18. #18
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,786
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    "Democratic" quadra have intuition with a plus sign, +Ni/Ne, which in interaction between "aristocrats" and "democrats" becomes perceptable. Aristocratic types as if keep searching for "negative" potentialities (-Ni/-Ne), the could be's and might be's of how something could go wrong, which they bring it up in conversation and try to safeguard themselves and scan for potential pitfalls; while Democratic types, on the contrary, keep an eye out for "positive" potentials (+Ni/+Ne) and how they could capitalize on these, and sieze the moment so to say. In this sense, I have often felt that the Gamma types are way more optimistic than both Beta and Delta. It's not very apparent in Gamma introverts, ILIs and ESIs, but it's like they are waiting for some kind of a cue or an idea of when, where, and how they could proceed ahead, which they receive from +Ni/+Se of their duals SEEs and LIEs respectively, (and get stuck and depressed if they don't get anything of the kind for a while).

    While Aristocratic types have minus intuition and sensing, they have both feeling and logic with a + sign. So there isn't really a depressive, bleak, negativistic quadra in socionics. It's all balanced. Each quadra has its "braking" and its "accelerator" pedals.


    Veering off the topic a little, I get an impression that optimism/pessimism oft gets mistaken for enneagram positive outlook types - types & wings 2,7,9: http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/harmonics.html#pos

    "People whose dominant Harmonic Style is the Positive Outlook style are generally optimistic and tend to avoid negative thoughts or situations. Under stress, they seek to avoid the problem, distract themselves with something else, or minimize the problem. These types want to feel good and want others around them feel good. They would rather have everyone happy (including themselves) than to deal with problems or negativity (especially in themselves)."

    So if someone goes around trying to entertain and distract everyone, minimize problems, and make everyone feel happy that doesn't mean much concerning their socionics quadra placements and is much more relevant towards their enneagram type.

  19. #19
    Cat Lady aixelsyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    488
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Depends if the Gammas in question are clinically depressed or not.
    Life's a bitch and she's got me pussy whipped.

  20. #20
    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    TIM
    ESI-Se 6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,269
    Mentioned
    142 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    My LIE friends are pretty optimistic.


    I'm definitely not but occasionally I can be.

  21. #21
    lirpa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    TIM
    IEE-0
    Posts
    16
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    Why is everything I read about Gamma(especially ESI) so gloomy and depressing? Can this quadra actually be, you know, optimistic and find a silver lining etc? Because if not, how can they operate like it? And the fact that all violent, depressing things are crammed into this quadra(GoT, Vikings etc). Man, I long for the time of Conan-when blood was spilled, bad guy was defeated(most likely decapitated), a girl conquered and everything was just fine afterwards. Unlike the Game of Trash, a book + show written by a clearly sick mind(who is in it purely for $$$). There even if a big bad is defeated the torture porn continues. WTF.

    Long story short: Optimism-here or other quadras?
    Realism isn't pessimism.

    Game of Thrones, George R R Martin, is likely showcasing through Ne creative his take on all the quadras, probably Fi because of the undercurrent of serving the people or the realm. Delta types have their own sort of doom and gloom that's both hopeful and fatalistic because they are swayed by their moods *right now*.

    If you posting this thread was motivated by watching GoT and your frustration with "torture porn" then go blame the Deltas for triggering you.

    As for my outlook, I have what I have and that's gonna have to keep working for me. Vote's still out on my type, but I'm fairly sure I could find the bright side of any eye gouging and the dark side of any compromise.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •