Input requested: Am I an ILE, LIE, or SLE? Complete analysis herein.

[withoutd0ubt]

All three descriptions (multiple descriptions from various authors across the spectrum of socionics sites but primarily wikisocion) fit me well. I've taken all the online free socionics tests each multiple times and have answered honestly at the time I took them. I've gotten all three as my type.

I'm very Ne, Te, and Se in thoughts and personality exhibitions. I've analyzed all three Types below for their Ego (base/dem combined) and PoLR.

ILE:
Ego: I see possibilities in everything, how each field of information related to the others, areas for improvement, and ways to improve them. I routinely discover new ideas and enjoy discussing or presenting them to others. I readily change positions on topics of new information is assimilated. I loathe illogical rules and social systems that I'm "required/supposed to" participate in or be governed by. I'm rebellious in that way. Since I'm highly intelligent, highly educated, and can systematize a massive amount of unrelated information together on the meta-level, I feel like my ideas are the best and detest having to go through lengthy explanations to others for justification purposes.
PoLR: I'm not good at perceiving how others perceive me. I do not enter into many close relationships. I am often unaware of my body language, facial expressions, and "aggressiveness" of my vocal delivery. I like it when people reaffirm their view of me, whether friends or coworkers or even my wife.

LIE:
Ego - I consume information and research interesting topics constantly. I get frustrated with inefficiencies of systems and incorrect analyses by people. I interrupt people and love to talk about deep, meta-level topics and abhor small talk. I can perceive the future applicability of hypotheses and that does impact my desire to 'act' on any of my ideas or plans.
PoLR- I dislike repetitive chores and don't particularly care if my surroundings are messy but I do like when they're organized and pleasant. I am aware of my surroundings but sometimes don't place enough importance on them to do something about it instead of doing other more interesting things.

SLE:
Ego: I am a natural leader who is normally the "alpha (not a socionics alpha quadra reference) male in every situation. I am 6'2" and 240lbs with 10% body fat as a former bodybuilder. I automatically get attention from that and the normal serious look on my face. I feel like I'm capable and ready to do whatever I want at any given time. I don't mind "getting to work" before I have a complete plan because I feel like I can adapt along the way and I don't want to waste time analyzing (I can get trapped in over analysis of "no good" solution presents itself). I value excellence and I where I possess an opinion, I have reasoned it so well that it will not be changed - unless new information enters.
PoLR: I am weak in interpersonal relations and do guard myself from being "known" by more than my closest people. Those who know me say I'm a wonderful friend, super hilarious, affectionate, and altruistic. Those who don't know me have said I'm cold, aloof, aggressive, assertive, calculating, and intimidating. I think I like it that way. I often worry that I've offended people unintentionally.

I realize they are all three in different quadras. Unfortunately, I can appreciate the interaction styles and discussion topics of all three. I don't care if a group is large or small, theoretical or practical, serious or lighthearted, friendly or aggressive. I enjoy the exchange of ideas in all those situations. What I don't like is talking about personal feelings or any group where everyone is in agreement. I can either be the conversation dominator, comedian, or encyclopedia.

Enneagram: 8w7 sx/sp

[Velvet]

Nice ad, made me laugh. But if you want a constructive output, upload a video maybe? Deliver a questionnaire? Keep posting? Come into the shoutbox, there surely be people to dissect your brains there?
Good luck.

[withoutd0ubt]

Nice ad, made me laugh. But if you want a constructive output, upload a video maybe? Deliver a questionnaire? Keep posting? Come into the shoutbox, there surely be people to dissect your brains there?
Good luck.

Ad? What's the shoutbox (new around these parts)? Why wouldn't "What's my type?" be the most appropriate place?

[Velvet]

Ad? What's the shoutbox (new around these parts)? Why wouldn't "What's my type?" be the most appropriate place?

I just chuckled at how you were advertising/selling yourself, found it funny.
The questionnaire can be found here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...do=form&fid=10
And the shoutbox is the local IRC chat. People like to type there.

[withoutd0ubt]

I just chuckled at how you were advertising/selling yourself, found it funny.
The questionnaire can be found here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...do=form&fid=10
And the shoutbox is the local IRC chat. People like to type there.

Unfortunately, I only have access through the Tapatalk mobile app and those form options aren't available and I see nothing called a shoutbox in any of the forum menus available.

Hopefully some folks will weigh in here. I thought I provided enough info and had done enough background research for a third party to give me an objective opinion since I'm stuck.

I'd be happy to answer any additional questions...?

[Amber]

if EII placed rules on you with 10 steps and 7 feet and you didn't give her ultimatums instead ... you ain't Se dom.

[Ananke]

ILE:
Ego: I see possibilities in everything

creativity isn't type related. The kind of creativity you have is.

how each field of information related to the others,

logics

areas for improvement, and ways to improve them.

extraversion, probably

I get frustrated with inefficiencies of systems and incorrect analyses by people.

Te and Ti

I interrupt people

Could be just arrogance, but if type related, then maybe asking (alpha or delta logical, beta or gamma ethical)

and love to talk about deep, meta-level topics and abhor small talk.

logics

I dislike repetitive chores and don't particularly care if my surroundings are messy but I do like when they're organized and pleasant.

That sounds like anyone I know...

I am a natural leader

I have a hard time seeing ILEs as natural leaders, or even focused on being one, but I guess you could be the exception.

Enneagram: 8w7 sx/sp

I also have a hard time seeing ILE E8s as existing, but it would explain the "natural leader" idea.

[Kim]

SLE

[withoutd0ubt]

if EII placed rules on you with 10 steps and 7 feet and you didn't give her ultimatums instead ... you ain't Se dom.

I didn't speak about the whole situation. I said I used her 10 steps as justification to walk out and be with the other. Also, I don't think that a situation where love is involved necessarily is indicative of Se or lack thereof.

Wikisocion: "{Se base of SLE} He wants to make all decisions himself about what he will do, wear, eat, look like, etc., and resents any attempts by others to make these decisions for him."

I think part of the reason her 10 steps drove me away is because I was being required to do things I didn't want to do - as described in the Se quote above.

What reasons do you have to think "I ain't Se dom"?

[Myst]

All three descriptions (multiple descriptions from various authors across the spectrum of socionics sites but primarily wikisocion) fit me well. I've taken all the online free socionics tests each multiple times and have answered honestly at the time I took them. I've gotten all three as my type.

You don't yet seem to have a good understanding of socionics, read articles on this site too and read more than just the type descriptions on wikisocion, those are just illustrations, not actually usable for the typing process. Same applies to test results.

But anyway, I'm still going with LIE from this much which isn't a whole lot. I highly doubt you being a Ne valuer at this point but 4D Ne Demonstrative is quite possible, which is what LIE has.

Do you think you are a Static or a Dynamic type? Te or Ti in this sense?

If the terminology I'm using here is unfamiliar then do go read articles as I said above. Fuck the type stereotypes, again.

[withoutd0ubt]

SLE

SLEs don't normally research continuously or naturally develop systemic plans to complicated scenarios though, right? I'm always learning and researching interesting topics. I see where various topics intermix behind the scenes or on the meta level, like a complicated, 3-d venn diagram.

I am, however, always aware of my surroundings and the capabilities of those who are within. It confuses me that I can also intuitively understand the reasons for their capabilities (or limitations) and the underlying issues.

I'm also very coordinated and possess excellent fine motor skills (hand eye coordination, dexterity, etc). I've excelled at golf, basketball and tennis and play them frequently. This is a Se trait and most Ne or Te dominant (LIE/ILE) aren't described as coordinated but are rather clumsy.

Therein lies my confusion: I do have strong Se, Ne, and Te.

SLE does have Se as base and Te as 8 so that makes sense, but their Ne is weak at 3.
ILE does have Ne as base and Te as 8 so that makes sense, but their Se is weak at 3.
LIE does have Te as base and Ne as 8 so that makes sense, but need a strong Se push at 6.

So it's left me confused.

I really identify with Ennegram 8w7 but also with 6w5 though not as much.

[Suomea]

SLE seems a bit more likely than ILE but without seeing you in a video I would have a hard time. This is based both on what you say and how you say them. Seems like you are super Fe seeking which works for either one, but the more boastful tone seems more SLE than ILE, and it seems like you would have more times where you overplay your hand (Se types>Ne types) than underplay it (Ne types > Se types). Most of what you say for ILE seems to go toward the Ti side of things rather than the Ne as well. The SLE part seems to focus more on Se.

I feel like I'm capable and ready to do whatever I want at any given time. I don't mind "getting to work" before I have a complete plan because I feel like I can adapt along the way and I don't want to waste time analyzing (I can get trapped in over analysis of "no good" solution presents itself). I value excellence and I where I possess an opinion, I have reasoned it so well that it will not be changed - unless new information enters.

Again this could all just be strong Fe seeking behavior and you are an ILE but I think SLE fits a lot better just from this post.

I could potentially see weakness in Ni that you would appreciate in a dual as well. That you are able to get things moving quite well, but that you hit into walls that were unexpected especially with people sometimes. An IEI would help you see those walls (especially with people) and help you avoid some of them. I think LIE is unlikely as it seems as if you have Fi POLR and have an Fe hidden agenda.

[Kim]

Maybe say a bit more about areas in which you are weak or feel vulnerable easily.

[Velvet]

SLEs don't normally research continuously or naturally develop systemic plans to complicated scenarios though, right? I'm always learning and researching interesting topics. I see where various topics intermix behind the scenes or on the meta level, like a complicated, 3-d venn diagram.

I am, however, always aware of my surroundings and the capabilities of those who are within. It confuses me that I can also intuitively understand the reasons for their capabilities (or limitations) and the underlying issues.

I'm also very coordinated and possess excellent fine motor skills (hand eye coordination, dexterity, etc). I've excelled at golf, basketball and tennis and play them frequently. This is a Se trait and most Ne or Te dominant (LIE/ILE) aren't described as coordinated but are rather clumsy.

Therein lies my confusion: I do have strong Se, Ne, and Te.

SLE does have Se as base and Te as 8 so that makes sense, but their Ne is weak at 3.
ILE does have Ne as base and Te as 8 so that makes sense, but their Se is weak at 3.
LIE does have Te as base and Ne as 8 so that makes sense, but need a strong Se push at 6.

So it's left me confused.

I really identify with Ennegram 8w7 but also with 6w5 though not as much.

I know an SLE 8w7 who is a natural researcher, one of the most intelligent persons I've ever met in my life.

[Suomea]

SLEs don't normally research continuously or naturally develop systemic plans to complicated scenarios though, right? I'm always learning and researching interesting topics. I see where various topics intermix behind the scenes or on the meta level, like a complicated, 3-d venn diagram.

Yeah seems more like Ti than Ne.

[Enoch]

Holographic panoramic cognition + to be loved hidden agenda-

SLE favoring introverted logic, with bursts of Ne from its position in the stack

[Ananke]

LIE is a plausible type for you, I agree with @Myst. You seem like an NT, yet seem to use more Te than Ne in your posts, at the very least you come off as more T-base than EP. You seem to hate on Ne rather than have it as an ego-function. Otherwise I don't see much Se, yet Se HA would possibly make you think you are good at it, so it adds up neatly if you are LIE.

SLEs don't normally research continuously or naturally develop systemic plans to complicated scenarios though, right? I'm always learning and researching interesting topics. I see where various topics intermix behind the scenes or on the meta level, like a complicated, 3-d venn diagram.

That isn't Ne, it is Ti rather, so sure they do. They are just as Ti creative as ILEs. WHY do you do it and HOW you do it is more interesting than that you do it.

I am, however, always aware of my surroundings and the capabilities of those who are within. It confuses me that I can also intuitively understand the reasons for their capabilities (or limitations) and the underlying issues.

In what way are you aware of your surroundings? Describe.

[withoutd0ubt]

You don't yet seem to have a good understanding of socionics, read articles on this site too and read more than just the type descriptions on wikisocion, those are just illustrations, not actually usable for the typing process. Same applies to test results.

But anyway, I'm still going with LIE from this much which isn't a whole lot. I highly doubt you being a Ne valuer at this point but 4D Ne Demonstrative is quite possible, which is what LIE has.

Do you think you are a Static or a Dynamic type? Te or Ti in this sense?

If the terminology I'm using here is unfamiliar then do go read articles as I said above. Fuck the type stereotypes, again.

I have an average understanding in socionics - only have been researching it for a few weeks. I doubt you read above where I've already said I have read all the descriptions from multiple authors across the range of socionics sites. However, that's exactly why I started this thread - to learn from those who know more.

I'm neither static nor dynamic predominantly. In MBTI I was 50/50 every test for J/P. I analyze, categorize, synthesize, systematize, and harmonize information normally in that order.

In general, I recognize how various systems and frameworks apply, or could be made to apply, to entirely different fields. I often do this in my philosophical writings. Ne "guides" me to new areas of research or sparks a new concept for me to focus on with Te. However, if I'm actively doing something Se and in the midst of fulfilling my goal I see an area that can be improved upon (process or procedure) then I will gather data Te, and develop my thoughts with Ni, Ti, and Si if senses are involved like danger or forces. So my functional abilities depend on the information generated while using (Ne/Te/Se), organized (Ti/Si/Ni), and are systematized (Te/Ti/Se/Si/Ne/Ni). Once systematized, I'm dynamic and the new concept/idea/thing is not separable. "I know it and understand it". However, if necessary, I can break apart my harmonized creation back into pieces for either explanatory reasons or to assimilate addition info previously excluded.

As for the attitude. If your terminology wasn't familiar, what the fuck else would I do except research the terms? Overt and subtle patronization will not go over well with me. You don't know me and though you may be more knowledgeable than me in socionics, I've just begun to study this field. No reason for anything other than friendly conversation.

[withoutd0ubt]

SLE seems a bit more likely than ILE but without seeing you in a video I would have a hard time. This is based both on what you say and how you say them. Seems like you are super Fe seeking which works for either one, but the more boastful tone seems more SLE than ILE, and it seems like you would have more times where you overplay your hand (Se types>Ne types) than underplay it (Ne types > Se types). Most of what you say for ILE seems to go toward the Ti side of things rather than the Ne as well. The SLE part seems to focus more on Se.

Again this could all just be strong Fe seeking behavior and you are an ILE but I think SLE fits a lot better just from this post.

I could potentially see weakness in Ni that you would appreciate in a dual as well. That you are able to get things moving quite well, but that you hit into walls that were unexpected especially with people sometimes. An IEI would help you see those walls (especially with people) and help you avoid some of them. I think LIE is unlikely as it seems as if you have Fi POLR and have an Fe hidden agenda.

Regarding boastful tone: in what sense? I try and be clear, honest, and as objective as possible when describing myself. I say what I'm good at as well as I say what I struggle with or aren't good at. I don't appreciate false humility or false bravado. I wouldn't say I overplay or underplay my hand. When speaking about something I can do (as causal actor) then I'm confident I can do it (Se). When speaking about something I can know then confidence is lower because of the limitations within epistemic certitude. In my philosophical writings, I'm heavily dependent upon Ne to reconcile many divergent fields into new propositions or claims. I suppose it's difficult for me to explain to others how Ne works within me.

Fe seeking behavior: what does it mean? I often joke and prank others with either witty remarks or dry humor. I love to keep a straight face and watch someone wonder if I'm serious or not before they break out laughing. I like situations where people are enjoying themselves, it lets me put my guard down.

Yes, weak in Ni for sure. Yes, I like people who can "reign me in" sometimes, whether I'm pushing too hard or overwhelming myself by developing too many possibilities.

[withoutd0ubt]

I know an SLE 8w7 who is a natural researcher, one of the most intelligent persons I've ever met in my life.

Interesting. What did he research? What motivated him?

[Myst]

I have an average understanding in socionics - only have been researching it for a few weeks. I doubt you read above where I've already said I have read all the descriptions from multiple authors across the range of socionics sites. However, that's exactly why I started this thread - to learn from those who know more.

I said it actually twice that descriptions are no good.

I'm neither static nor dynamic predominantly. In MBTI I was 50/50 every test for J/P. I analyze, categorize, synthesize, systematize, and harmonize information normally in that order.

Forget MBTI when dealing with socionics.

Static and Dynamic are two important basic concepts in socionics. Has nothing to do with J/P.

Some links: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...mation_element
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Static
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php

In general, I recognize how various systems and frameworks apply, or could be made to apply, to entirely different fields. I often do this in my philosophical writings. Ne "guides" me to new areas of research or sparks a new concept for me to focus on with Te. However, if I'm actively doing something Se and in the midst of fulfilling my goal I see an area that can be improved upon (process or procedure) then I will gather data Te, and develop my thoughts with Ni, Ti, and Si if senses are involved like danger or forces. So my functional abilities depend on the information generated while using (Ne/Te/Se), organized (Ti/Si/Ni), and are systematized (Te/Ti/Se/Si/Ne/Ni). Once systematized, I'm dynamic and the new concept/idea/thing is not separable. "I know it and understand it". However, if necessary, I can break apart my harmonized creation back into pieces for either explanatory reasons or to assimilate addition info previously excluded.

Kinda sounds like T-leading.

As for the attitude. If your terminology wasn't familiar, what the fuck else would I do except research the terms? Overt and subtle patronization will not go over well with me. You don't know me and though you may be more knowledgeable than me in socionics, I've just begun to study this field. No reason for anything other than friendly conversation.

You are reading nonsense between the lines. I was simply stating facts, no patronizing.

[withoutd0ubt]

Yeah seems more like Ti than Ne.

Yes, though determining where/what to research is the Ne part. It happens behind the scenes and allows for connections to be made between disciplines and fields. Next step is always Ti during the actual research phase.

[withoutd0ubt]

Holographic panoramic cognition + to be loved hidden agenda- SLE favoring introverted logic, with bursts of Ne from its position in the stack

I can buy that. You're an IEI so the SLE is your dual... Do I sound like the others you've met?

[Enoch]

I can buy that. You're an IEI so the SLE is your dual... Do I sound like the others you've met?

On this forum, I am new and as a result I am meeting people here, who resemble interesting facsimiles of archetypal forces and some with a wide range of values

Some even recently banned-

Apart from the forum, I know one male SLE and one female SLE. I have been interested in typology for about 6 years

I am trying out a beta or alpha method of typing based on determining the cognitive style and hidden agenda. This is largely an Ni maneuver and mental reduction

[withoutd0ubt]

LIE is a plausible type for you, I agree with @Myst. You seem like an NT, yet seem to use more Te than Ne in your posts, at the very least you come off as more T-base than EP. You seem to hate on Ne rather than have it as an ego-function. Otherwise I don't see much Se, yet Se HA would possibly make you think you are good at it, so it adds up neatly if you are LIE.

In what way are you aware of your surroundings? Describe.

No doubt I rely on Te and am actively using it herein to understand socionics since its new to me. I'm taking all the theoretical parts and combing them into socionics as a logical system of personality evaluation.

Not sure where gave the impression that I "hated on" Ne? I think Ne is wonderful - it's one of the few things I really enjoy. New ideas, new possibilities, new connections - life's "a ha" moments.

My surroundings: I am aware of the place, size, and any exits. I am aware of who is there and how they're positioned. I'm educated in psychology so I am aware of other people's personality disorders, confidence, charisma, and danger level. I am cognizant of what I'm doing there and what I need to accomplish. I've been trained in martial arts so I'm aware of who might be a threat and how to take them down. I understand the situational dynamics regarding who's in charge and why they are in charge. I use this information to determine how to appropriately act because I cannot readily perceive how I'm perceived by the other people and I want to minimize the chance that I'll do something detrimental to my cause or identity.

[withoutd0ubt]

I said it actually twice that descriptions are no good.

Forget MBTI when dealing with socionics.

Static and Dynamic are two important basic concepts in socionics. Has nothing to do with J/P.

Some links: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...mation_element
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Static
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php

Kinda sounds like T-leading.

You are reading nonsense between the lines. I was simply stating facts, no patronizing.

I don't really believe descriptions are no good. I think they're valuable.

MBTI ~= socionics so any similar information isn't mutually exclusive. J/P ~= static/dynamic. Perhaps read your own links. I've already read them and it in fact references a person to research more into J/P.

Again, explaining things on this site about this topic right now can't help but be T driven. No one knows how Ne really works or can explain it - it's not really a conscious process, it's metacognitive.

The patronizing part: pasting the links I've already read. My last comment was readily identifiable that I know what static/dynamic are but you didn't respond to my conclusion over being undecided.

[withoutd0ubt]

I think LIE is unlikely as it seems as if you have Fi POLR and have an Fe hidden agenda.

Yes, I agree. No doubt I am Fi PoLR and have Fe hidden agenda.

[Ananke]

I don't really believe descriptions are no good. I think they're valuable.

MBTI ~= socionics so any similar information isn't mutually exclusive. J/P ~= static/dynamic. Perhaps read your own links. I've already read them and it in fact references a person to research more into J/P.

Again, explaining things on this site about this topic right now can't help but be T driven. No one knows how Ne really works or can explain it - it's not really a conscious process, it's metacognitive.

The patronizing part: pasting the links I've already read. My last comment was readily identifiable that I know what static/dynamic are but you didn't respond to my conclusion over being undecided.

She is right, you are wrong. You may have read, but you haven't understood. Go back and try understanding. If you are Ti-valuing as you say, you shouldn't be happy with reading alternative meanings into the texts in these links, but you would want to understand what they talk of - their meaning. Not their potential meaning, but their actual meaning.

[withoutd0ubt]

Maybe say a bit more about areas in which you are weak or feel vulnerable easily.

Weak: expressing emotions, identifying emotions in others, sociable small talk, making a decision if there's no desirable choices, finishing an action if I know I won't like its conclusion, being too direct, not being empathetic/compassionate, valuing people that aren't capable or don't try hard

Vulnerable: letting people get to know me, afraid they'll manipulate my emotions, afraid they could hurt me, afraid I won't have the power in the relationship, afraid things would get too emotionally intense. I keep a very small circle but to them, I've let them know me unconditionally - they're my "safe place" of trust.

[Myst]

I don't really believe descriptions are no good. I think they're valuable.

Not really more valuable as illustrations are in general. Model A is more important.

MBTI ~= socionics so any similar information isn't mutually exclusive. J/P ~= static/dynamic. Perhaps read your own links. I've already read them and it in fact references a person to research more into J/P.

MBTI != socionics so you shouldn't try to arrive at conclusions in socionics coming from MBTI.

As for J/P, the second link I gave states:

"Using the four-letter code: statics are EP or IJ, and dynamics are EJ or IP."

So not quite what you said.

The patronizing part: pasting the links I've already read. My last comment was readily identifiable that I know what static/dynamic are but you didn't respond to my conclusion over being undecided.

How would I know what you have read and understood so far, I pasted the links to help. If you find offering help is patronizing, that's not my problem. I did not respond to your conclusion because it made no sense in terms of the socionics framework. So I can't really work with it. I understand you tried to link it with MBTI but that's really not a good idea.

[withoutd0ubt]

She is right, you are wrong. You may have read, but you haven't understood. Go back and try understanding. If you are Ti-valuing as you say, you shouldn't be happy with reading alternative meanings into the texts in these links, but you would want to understand what they talk of - their meaning. Not their potential meaning, but their actual meaning.

Then my mistake and apologies. Here was my thought process.

From wikisocion: "Statics tend towards fragmentary-analytic thinking; Dynamics tend towards associative-synthetic thinking.
Analysis, as defined by most sources, is the division of a whole into clearly delimited parts. Analytical work is meant to delineate boundaries. Whereas*synthesis*is akin to associativity, i.e. the association of two or more concepts by fuzzy, rapid connections whereby one occurrence immediately evokes others to mind. Resulting in a coherent synthetic image with blurred internal boundaries"

My response to static/dynamic Ti or Te: "In general, I recognize how various systems and frameworks apply, or could be made to apply, to entirely different fields. I often do this in my philosophical writings. Ne "guides" me to new areas of research or sparks a new concept for me to focus on with Te. However, if I'm actively doing something Se and in the midst of fulfilling my goal I see an area that can be improved upon (process or procedure) then I will gather data Te, and develop my thoughts with Ni, Ti, and Si if senses are involved like danger or forces. So my functional abilities depend on the information generated while using (Ne/Te/Se), organized (Ti/Si/Ni), and are systematized (Te/Ti/Se/Si/Ne/Ni). Once systematized, I'm dynamic and the new concept/idea/thing is not separable. "I know it and understand it". However, if necessary, I can break apart my harmonized creation back into pieces for either explanatory reasons or to assimilate addition info previously excluded."

So if that's not an appropriate answer then I'm lost. I see both snapshots of meaningful events as well as continuous streams. I use Te dynamic to continuously add to my inductive knowledge of systems and informational stores within my mind which is never settled at a static grasp. When I want to pull out some of that information to really form it into a solid understanding then I'm Ti static as the info is broken down into irreducible segments.

Perhaps you are able to infer something from my writing style?

[marooned]

i might add in these things for :

http://rickdelong.com/socionics/theory/bi.shtml
http://socionist.blogspot.com/search/label/ILE <--edited link to include other tagged blog posts

i don't see valuing either at this point. i think the things you've covered as are often logic... integrating multiple systems isn't intuition, but logic.

i think that you present a lot of logic in your posts, and i don't know what else is there. the weaknesses you covered for yourself i think are all fitting with logical extroverts: ILE, SLE, LIE, LSE.

(ps: would disregard all this stuff about being physically robust or not... i would just ignore physical features at first.)

also, i used delong's stuff because i feel like it hits that is an abstract IME better that some descriptions... i wouldn't take everything as gospel truth, but look for the overall gist.

[withoutd0ubt]

Not really more valuable as illustrations are in general. Model A is more important.

MBTI != socionics so you shouldn't try to arrive at conclusions in socionics coming from MBTI.

As for J/P, the second link I gave states:

"Using the four-letter code: statics are EP or IJ, and dynamics are EJ or IP."

So not quite what you said.

How would I know what you have read and understood so far, I pasted the links to help. If you find offering help is patronizing, that's not my problem. I did not respond to your conclusion because it made no sense in terms of the socionics framework. So I can't really work with it. I understand you tried to link it with MBTI but that's really not a good idea.

My apologies, I thought it was evident that I had read the model A due to the way I described analysis and systemizing info as well as it being broken up or harmonized associatively.

I wasn't drawing conclusions from MBTI, only added that bc it was interesting to why I can't readily choose between static/dynamic. In MBTI I was xNTx but the N was ~52% and the T was ~85%.

Again, please accept my apologies and thank you for trying to help with the links. Totally my fault.

[Aylen]

I am not going to attempt to type you but fwiw when I scanned your google profile (you linked) it seemed to show some kind of Ni seeking pattern. The profile is very similar to an SLE I know in one of my spiritual groups. They are always logically looking at the stuff I just intuitively understand and we have lots of conversations about the same stuff you post. May elaborate later but I am too tired right now.

[withoutd0ubt]

i might add in these things for :

http://rickdelong.com/socionics/theory/bi.shtml
http://socionist.blogspot.com/2006/1...intuition.html

i don't see valuing either at this point. i think the things you've covered as are often logic... integrating multiple systems isn't intuition, but logic.

i think that you present a lot of logic in your posts, and i don't know what else is there. the weaknesses you covered for yourself i think are all fitting with logical extroverts: ILE, SLE, LIE, LSE.

(ps: would disregard all this stuff about being physically robust or not... i would just ignore physical features at first.)

Interesting, I'd say it's evidence in itself of Ne that I'm actively interested in this topic and discussion.

From the first link: "What is characteristic of the thinking of extraverted intuition types is the ability to make connections between things that might not seem related at first glance. They like to keep a certain mental distance from their objects of study so that they can always keep the "big picture" in mind, i.e. see how the subject connects to other things they know about. This synthetic thinking presumably has a neurological explanation."

That's exactly what I've been saying, or trying to say, about correlating various fields but it was called Te by a few??

Also quoted: "It's hard to attach a extraverted intuition type to material possessions. But if someone attacks their "potential" (talents, opportunities, and any other "unrealized potential") or their intellectual territory (their ideas and vision), that's quite another story."
I'm not materialistic but readily defend my thoughts and arguments.

"Here extraverted intuition types can and will put up a fight and will wear out nearly any opponent....extraverted intuition types are able to constantly keep track of opponents' mental state and thought organization and attack them mentally when their thought processes are disorganized (this applies to confrontational situations)."
This is what I do to gain the upper hand in debate or work meetings.

"extraverted intuition implies the ability to model other people's thought structures and understand how other people's worldviews fit together. This understanding allows one to explain new information or ideas to them in a way that they can understand, based on their existing level of understanding."
Again, in my debating and philosophy having this ability is a necessity. Breaking down cognitive dissonance and psychological defense mechanisms to expose errors or teach new info.

"extraverted intuition types enjoy helping people with hidden potential develop it into conscious and recognized strengths. They like to help others experience insight — or a holistic intuitive understanding of concepts."
This explains why I'm a volunteer mentor to underprivileged kids at a nearby trailer park.

[Myst]

My apologies, I thought it was evident that I had read the model A due to the way I described analysis and systemizing info as well as it being broken up or harmonized associatively.

I wasn't drawing conclusions from MBTI, only added that bc it was interesting to why I can't readily choose between static/dynamic. In MBTI I was xNTx but the N was ~52% and the T was ~85%.

Again, please accept my apologies and thank you for trying to help with the links. Totally my fault.

No worries. What you wrote to Ananke in #32, seemed more dynamic to me so I'm still guessing LIE, though not a final conclusion for sure.

EDIT: the Ne thingie could also just be your Ne being valued after all. But you still seem dynamic Te so LSE would be yet another option to consider. Look at Dialectical-Algorithmic and Vortical-Synergetic thinking styles. LIE would be the latter while LSE would be the former.

[withoutd0ubt]

I am not going to attempt to type you but fwiw when I scanned your google profile (you linked) it seemed to show some kind of Ni seeking pattern. The profile is very similar to an SLE I know in one of my spiritual groups. They are always logically looking at the stuff I just intuitively understand and we have lots of conversations about the same stuff you post. May elaborate later but I am too tired right now.

Interesting. Ni seeking would correspond to SLE PoLR. However, I'm not really seeking anything with respect to understanding on my G+ page, I feel like I've got a firm grasp on the topic matter and then try to explain it to others via Ti. I rely on Ne, Te, and Si to grasp the subject matter and then "pull it down" into a conscious stream of thoughts.

I think we all know a lot of information via Ni (induction/consciousness) but we must use Ti to write intelligibly about our Ni possessed knowledge and qualia perceptions.

I welcome any discussions with you. Contact me on G+ or here if you prefer.

[Myst]

@RME83

I edited my previous post above, check it

[withoutd0ubt]

Member Questionnaire 1 (RME83)

What is beauty? What is love?

Beauty is when I can do nothing else but "stop" (thinking, perceiving, sensing, feeling) and appreciate living. It can be form, function, symmetry, subtlety, or harmony. It can be personal or impersonal, joyous or mysterious, calming or intoxicating, purposeful or random. Love is the internalization of admiration, appreciation, meaning, and value being combined in a way that makes it feel natural to be effortlessly selfless while purposefully subservient to the recipient. Both love and beauty are linked - we love beautiful things/values/people. We think those whom we love are beautiful, our parents/friends/spouses/places.

What are your most important values?

To do well, be good, and love others. I value being a good father and a person who uplifts humanity in whatever ways I'm capable. I value possessions if they are correlated to experiential meanings - a gift from a loved one, a token of rememberance, or a reminder of something lost. I value excellence and excellent effort. I value life.

Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?

Yes. I grew up as a “devout atheist” – more like a smug anti-theist. I was generally a nightmare to contend with on topics involving spirituality/theism/immaterialism and have been the cause of many faithful believers to renounce their belief in God (I actually regret that). I have had a legitimate spiritual encounters which I fully am aware is subjective and can never be philosophically/logically reasoned to anyone else. Suffice it to say, I know that I know that there is more than mechanistic materialism/humanism/naturalism and do hold firm personal beliefs on the nature/philosophy/reality of deity/god. I never proselytize or evangelize any of my beliefs – they are beliefs and are naturally subjective. However, I have realized how fruitless the debates (resident in intellectual understandings of mind) are for any sort of extrapersonal spiritual understanding. Truly, one must have had a spiritual experience to understand one and cannot comprehend that level of reality without one. I have read in totality the religious books (scriptures) of the major world religions and find them fascinating. Generally, they all possess flawed understandings resulting from innate finite understanding limitations of the infinite. However one chooses to live – by dogma, theology, or culture – I have no opinion. I only discuss these topics with others as a goal of causing self reflection and evaluation hoping that others will realize a level of selfless humility caused by knowing that we don’t really know anything.

Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?

War: ridiculous that it's still necessary, awful in every way, and will become as ancient as the historical sociocultural/psychosocial tribal mentality from whence it was glorified - as humanity progresses toward a more unified altruistic brotherhood once fundamental, ideological groups/religions are eventually fall victim to the Age of Enlightenment and Internet access.

Militaries: Fear based, but necessary, institutions draining a massive amount of worldwide EDP. Necessary because various cultures place various definitions/values upon others while being led by psycholocally unstable individuals or oligarchies. There remains much evolutionary drive to conquer and subjugate others and militaries attempt to protect against their group's annihilation. Military members: not appreciative or unappreciative, I respect their dedication and courage but not the actions by which they sometimes must commit.

Power: the ability to influence with wisdom over strength, to wield the tools to rally others in a noble pursuit, to have courage, to have excellence in craft, to be able to cause change simply through will.

What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?

Anything really. Long conversations about anything philosophy, health/nutrition, environmental issues,religion,political, scientific, sexual, or comedic. I value long and interesting conversations with highly intelligent people because it seems that the qualified pool of conversationalists in those topics with said traits is minute. The more you're educated in those topics and the higher degree of one's intelligence level causes a certain understanding of how little we truly know. So many folks believe 'experts' and 'scientists' while not even realizing that all their beliefs are predicated upon conjecture, presuppositions, inferences, and are unfalsifiable (not subject to the scientific method).

Why? I suppose it's just an existential drive to discover meaning.

Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?

Very. Very. I'm a former bodybuilder, current powerlifter, Former semi-pro BMX bike racer, and current scratch golfer. I play basketball, tennis, and love to hike. My body is in shape and muscular. I grew up very skinny, saw myself in the mirror my freshman year of college as rail thin and decided enough. I changed diet, routine, and priorities immediately along with extensively educating myself and put on 60 lbs of lean muscle the first 18 months.

What do you think of daily chores?

I abhor them. I hate routine and monotonous actions. I do them though. I don't really care about my surroundings as much as most - as long as it's not invasive to my feelings or thoughts. I like it when all the chores are done and that is my only motivation - I like things organized and neat but sometimes do other things instead of cleaning when I should.

Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.

Love all sorts of films. Divergent, Transcendance, interstellar, LoTR, and the Matrix are some of my favorites. I read mainly philosophy, spiritual, and psychology books.

What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?

I rarely cry, unless I get in an infrequent heightened emotional state. Sometimes feelings just build up and can't be repressed any longer and then little things make my eyes sweat. I cried when my first pet died in my arms, when my two daughters were born, when I've been the recipient of underserved love.

Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?

Hard question. I feel like I'm one with humanity - a meta-consciousness connection... The interconnectedness and interrelatedness of all of us sharing this holographic reality - perceiving and impacting each other continuously. I don't feel at home or I belong in any "place" or "group".

What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?

Weaknesses described by others: bluntness, aggressiveness, tactlessness, lack of empathy or compassion.

Myself: I wish I was better at not making people feel those ways about me.

What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?

Strengths by others (close people): humor, assertiveness, courage, intensity, skill, intelligence, articulation ability, philosophy, strength, integrity.

Myself: confidence, ability, determination, strength, body, humor, and charisma.

In what areas of your life would you like help?

The ability to slow down. To appreciate little things. To just be present in time without qualification. To be a better husband. To be able to let others lead or guide me. To be able to trust easier. To be able to see people for who they are prior to judgment.

Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.

Rut? Not really. I'll just do something else or focus my attention on getting out. Never stuck.

What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?

Like: competence and capability. Honesty and sincerity. Intelligence and effort. Humor and intensity.

Dislike: irrational emotional expressions, inability to function appropriately, mean spiritedness, liars, selfish manipulators.

How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?

Romance is somewhat strange because it always seems so forced. Sex is awesome and I love it in every way. I love to play around and I love to please my partner. I'm not afraid of it and I'm good at it.

Partner: not shy, not afraid, not self conscious, in shape, flexible, vocal, intense.

If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?

My main concerns are for my two daughters emotional well being and that I instill in them a thirst for education and the ability to critically think. I also teach them self defense. Nothing gets in my way here, nor will I allow it to ever.

A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?

Inward: Should I correct him or will it take too long and/or be fruitless. Can he really handle being corrected without defensive mechanisms. Do I want to?

Outward: why do you believe that?

Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.

Society: irreparably broken and disheartening in every way. The common opinions are forged via indoctrination and then the majority of said opinions are then used to empower governments to repeat the cycle ad infinitim. I don't view myself as a "member" but rather as an outsider - a revolutionary with the ideas already formulated to fix government and to dismember self imposed social barriers causing division and animosity amongst social groups within a society.

Social problem: racism, education, taxation, sexualization of children, glorification of idiocy, worship of sports, etc etc etc etc.

How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?

Don't really choose friends, those relationships are natural and share a sort of chemistry or specific interest. I behave as myself, the more I trust them the more I open up to them.

How do you behave around strangers?

Always polite and cordial. Somewhat cautious and am aware of their ability to harm me or my family. Somewhat suspicious and am inquisitive regarding their intentions. Never really hold conversations with strangers because I don't want to and I don't really care to want to know them.

[Beautiful sky]

You're affectionate so that rules out LSE. You're not hard enough on your self that rules out EII. affectionate. Let me think about this