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Thread: Is Duality over idealised?

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    Default Is Duality over idealised?

    I am ILE and the husband is SEI. While all aspects of duality perfectly apply to our marriage, we both couldn't help but wonder 'doesn't every couple experience this?' We've been married 15 (kick ass) years (3 children in tow) and are high school sweethearts. We are eachother's 'onlies.' I figured we might be abit skeptical because we have no past romantic relationships to compare it to. Is a romantic duality relationship really all that different from other healthy romantic relationships? I've read it requires much less work. I can't imagine having to put in more than we do, granted it is very easy to be around one another. I just assumed the blurring of identities and unexplainable comfort happened in all good relations...

    Just interested to see if others who have experienced various relationships could explain, perhaps?
    Last edited by Dudette88; 05-24-2015 at 09:49 AM.

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    The sleeping beauty Velvet's Avatar
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    I have a very limited number of romantic relationships but more than one so something to compare.
    It's overwhelming and interstellar, at least it's what I felt...

    “Only once in your life, I truly believe, you find someone who can completely turn your world around. You tell them things that you’ve never shared with another soul and they absorb everything you say and actually want to hear more. You share hopes for the future, dreams that will never come true, goals that were never achieved and the many disappointments life has thrown at you. When something wonderful happens, you can’t wait to tell them about it, knowing they will share in your excitement. They are not embarrassed to cry with you when you are hurting or laugh with you when you make a fool of yourself. Never do they hurt your feelings or make you feel like you are not good enough, but rather they build you up and show you the things about yourself that make you special and even beautiful. There is never any pressure, jealousy or competition but only a quiet calmness when they are around. You can be yourself and not worry about what they will think of you because they love you for who you are. The things that seem insignificant to most people such as a note, song or walk become invaluable treasures kept safe in your heart to cherish forever. Memories of your childhood come back and are so clear and vivid it’s like being young again. Colours seem brighter and more brilliant. Laughter seems part of daily life where before it was infrequent or didn’t exist at all. A phone call or two during the day helps to get you through a long day’s work and always brings a smile to your face. In their presence, there’s no need for continuous conversation, but you find you’re quite content in just having them nearby. Things that never interested you before become fascinating because you know they are important to this person who is so special to you. You think of this person on every occasion and in everything you do. Simple things bring them to mind like a pale blue sky, gentle wind or even a storm cloud on the horizon. You open your heart knowing that there’s a chance it may be broken one day and in opening your heart, you experience a love and joy that you never dreamed possible. You find that being vulnerable is the only way to allow your heart to feel true pleasure that’s so real it scares you. You find strength in knowing you have a true friend and possibly a soul mate who will remain loyal to the end. Life seems completely different, exciting and worthwhile. Your only hope and security is in knowing that they are a part of your life.”
    ― Bob Marley

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    bm said this in one sitting?
    unholy water sanguine addiction

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalimera View Post
    bm said this in one sitting?
    He was talking about his fans wanting to meet him?

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    The ppl I'm usually severely attracted to/fall for are NOT my duals. My (humbly personal) Type of man is NOT exactly my dual. Love of my life (not talking only one here) is NOT my dual.

    Fuck off.

    I do like Duals however. Friendship is amazing. Smooth communication. Lots to learn. Feels relaxing. You respect the other. Looks like some complementary shit. My father is AWESOME. Love him to pieces. Duals I dated were ok. Cool talks. Relatively challenging dynamics. Sex is good. Looks do matter. StacK DOES fucking matter. What they're doing with themselves is important. Level of intelligence, hormonal&other genetic endowment, common interests&goals, tactical skills, erotic competence, character, taste in art, music, clothes and so on DO MATTER.
    Last edited by Amber; 05-24-2015 at 05:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    I have a very limited number of romantic relationships but more than one so something to compare.
    It's overwhelming and interstellar, at least it's what I felt...
    Quite the read. But relevant and can identify with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    The ppl I'm usually attracted to/fall for are NOT my duals. My (humbly personal) Type of man is NOT my dual. Love of my life (not talking only one here) is NOT my dual. .
    I thought as much.


    Fuck off.
    Tourette's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudette88 View Post
    Quite the read. But relevant and can identify with it.



    I thought as much.




    Tourette's?
    Uhm, no, baby. Stop using crappy Ne-- with -- Ti-- creative-ohoho ready-made imaginary generalising notions when you should actually read&understand each person you meet on the spot and get to know them for what they are. Dunno ..see what they're made of, why they say and do certain things ,,, what they personally like and need ...dunno. Just saying.

    The intertype relationships system sucks. Get over it. I wasn't talking to you with my "fuck off". It doesn't matter that you're also ILE (like Augusta). It doesn't make you one and the same individual.
    Last edited by Amber; 05-24-2015 at 05:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    Uhm, no, baby. Stop using crappy Ne-- with -- Ti-- creative-ohoho ready-made imaginary generalising notions when you should actually read&understand each person you meet on the spot and get to know them for what they are.

    The intertype relationships system sucks. Get over it. I wasn't talking to you with my "fuck off". It doesn't matter that you're also ILE (like Augusta). It doesn't make you one and the same individual. Now get off.
    Lol aw, dem feels

    Since you don't seem to realise, baby, I'm skeptical of the glorification of duality. Which is the whole purpose of this post - to explain what the big deal is or otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudette88 View Post
    Lol aw, dem feels

    Since you don't seem to realise, baby, I'm skeptical of the glorification of duality. Which is the whole purpose of this post - to explain what the big deal is or otherwise.
    I did sense a healthy level of doubt and curiosity in your OriginalPost ...that's why I answered so honestly. Imo it's pointless to pretend Socio-theory is TheEssenceOfLife.

    nyways glad you're happy with someone who happens to be your dual. Just saying such cases are prolly ---ironically--- the exception rather than the rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    I did sense a healthy level of doubt and curiosity in your OriginalPost ...that's why I answered so honestly. It's pointless to pretend Socio-theory is TheEssenceOfLife.

    nyways glad you're happy with someone who happens to be your dual. Just saying such cases are prolly ---ironically--- the exception rather than the rule.
    Thanks and agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudette88 View Post
    Quite the read. But relevant and can identify with it.
    I totally agree with Amber though, in my case this person happened to be my dual but it could be another type.
    I always put personality and individual values first on the scale.

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    IME, duals and duality are easy to take for granted. It feels so comfortable and natural, but when they go missing from your life is when people are more likely to realize what they had.

    I'm no relationship expert, but I personally can't see myself in a committed, long term relationship with someone other than my dual. I could probably work it out with my semi-dual and have a relatively short term thing with an identical or a mirage partner, but none I can see myself with for years like I could with an ILI. I'm basing this off of my personal experiences with different types of people on just a platonic basis. It's not that other relations can't be great in their own ways, but duality has that glue that makes for an enduring relationship, friendship or otherwise.
    Life's a bitch and she's got me pussy whipped.

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    Anything that is claimed to be "perfect" or "ideal" tends to be over-idealised. People like exaggerating things, especially (potentially) good things.

    Having said that, duality has the greatest potential to be a satisfying relation, functions-wise. Yes, functional interaction matters. But so do other aspects. I believe a duality relationship will naturally be inferior to a (slightly) "less ideal" relationship when the latter includes mutual sexual/romantic attraction, common personal goals & values, complementary lifestyles etc. etc. – and the duality relationship lacks all or most of those aspects. Yes, personality type plays a significant role when it comes to a good relationship, but typology nerds tend to forget it is not the only factor that makes up compatibility.

    Personally, I have never had a close relationship with my dual. I used to be close with my activity partner, and my sister is my semi-dual. Having experienced the positive effects of those relations, I would like to experience duality. But as long as I have not experienced it myself in full, I will not idealise it. Maybe afterwards, if it went great. However, that is just a byproduct of my nature, liking to idealise things I enjoy. Maybe that is the main reason duality seems "overrated" or "over idealised" – because people enjoy it more than they have thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    StacK DOES fucking matter.
    You mean Instinctual Stacking? If so, which ones do you find to be compatible? Just curious.

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    Overrated depends on whos rating it. Its relative.

    If ease of communication is paramount to someone having a successful relationship, then dual is probably a great fit.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    I'm in a dual relationship and it's heavenly

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    don't say overidealized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by left 4 dead View Post
    Yes. Yes it is. Male SLEs are dogs.
    aww. I'm sorry about how you feel. I can relate because I was in your shoes and sentiments a few years ago as well as broken hearted. People are shaped differently according to their experiences so if you're patient you'll find someone nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird View Post
    Yeah, I think it's probably overrated. I honestly can't stand it when people go on about trying to find just their dual to date. It seems artificial, wrong, and dehumanizing. Things should just happen naturally, I think...Like just find someone you like and let it go from there. Socionics explains how things can play out, but I don't think it should be a guide.

    I recently had some people VI my husband and they said he was LSE, which I suspected a while back, considering he looks blatantly EJ and is a clear negativistic, but was misguided into thinking he wasn't, by choice, honestly. I never let myself be misguided without reason.. I was hesitant to type him LSE because I didn't want to 'make him into my dual'...lol. That also means socionics could have a point, and I don't want socionics to be right. I hate socionics for how cold it is, but still find it interesting, nevertheless.

    Anyway, my husband was my HS sweetheart as well. We've been together for 13 years and have 3 kids. He's my best friend and I do think if something happened to him that he could never be replaced. We rarely fight. When we have had disagreements, it's been about his Ni PoLR I suspect, or my depression problems. I think being raised in the same area and having a lot of the same interests, such as the kind of music we like, is a very important part of our relationship, because it gives us some common ground that we share that not everyone has.
    My bf and I don't have ANY common ground except that all of our parents are still alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudette88 View Post
    I am ILE and the husband is SEI. While all aspects of duality perfectly apply to our marriage, we both couldn't help but wonder 'doesn't every couple experience this?' We've been married 15 (kick ass) years (3 children in tow) and are high school sweethearts. We are eachother's 'onlies.' I figured we might be abit skeptical because we have no past romantic relationships to compare it to. Is a romantic duality relationship really all that different from other healthy romantic relationships? I've read it requires much less work. I can't imagine having to put in more than we do, granted it is very easy to be around one another. I just assumed the blurring of identities and unexplainable comfort happened in all good relations...

    Just interested to see if others who have experienced various relationships could explain, perhaps?
    My bf is the quintessential dynamics loving extravert with a side of planning and serious execution of tasks. When I met him I was myself. He liked that I was easy going and when he suggested we do something that I let him be in charge and lead, which just comes natural to me as often I'm not sure of WHAT TO DO. The activity of things confuse me and make me fault and waste a lot of time, but time is spent on working excessively without rest. So he would suggest Si, resting…god I love him for saying "nap time." I guess according to him I'm just a companion. But I don't see that. I see more of someone who lends support, who lets him vent about frustrations, yet I'm my own person and I take off with friends to do my thing although he doesn't like me being too far away. LSE without an EII find it funny to say they don't want someone to respond as all they want is to talk, which they do so well, so early on in our relationship I kept silent to show him how that would go. He didn't like that. I soon proved to him that feedback is essential part of interaction and he loves to listen to me talk about stuff now. I usually don't talk all that much.

    Works out well.

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    Is duality over-idealized?


    No. Not in my opinion, not in my experience.


    Duality is not the only thing you need for a great relationship, but I believe it is one of the necessary ingredients. The two things you need for a great relationship are psychological compatibility and social compatibility. Duality satisfies the first. The second is satisfied when two people have common life goals, are at a similar point in life and want the same things, find each other physically and mentally attractive, have similar politics, etc. The list goes on and on, but these are the things you need if you are going to live publicly with someone else.


    It is entirely possible (and I believe this happens all the time. All the time....) that two people will meet, will decide that their social compatibility is perfect and their psychological compatibility is not that great but what relationship is perfect they all need work I know I'm not that easy to live with etc etc etc and decide to get married. The divorce rate is over 50%.


    I was married to a woman who is not my dual, but she satisfied every other point on that list, and more. It was great for years, we made an attractive couple (still do when we go out, we're friends), but the details accumulated and we are now divorced. By “details”, I mean the micro-reactions that you always get from someone in a relationship, because I believe that everyone is subconsciously oriented toward their dual, and is looking for the response that their dual would naturally provide. If you don't get that response, you start asking yourself if the other person is really there for you. Can you rely on them to be there when you need them? Do they respond to you emotionally, do they truly value you, and can you confide in them without fear of rejection or criticism?


    A person might satisfy most or all of those questions to some degree or other, but a dual is probably going to respond exactly the way you need and expect most of the time. Not all of the time. But most of the time.


    Now, I should say, that while everyone wants the things I mentioned above, not everyone gets those things in the same way. Part of that is pretty well described in the article Erotic Attitudes, by Silke, but here are two examples from my own life.


    I'm an ENTJ, or LIE. I fell in love with my INFJ (IEI) aunt when I was a little kid. She loved me, my mother didn't, and my emotional, reptilian brain fixated on IEI behavior as safe and loving. My favorite, closest cousin is also an IEI. We grew up together, and as I grew up, I adapted to (came to accept and appreciate and protect) her behavior. So not only am I emotionally attracted to IEI's, I also play well with them.


    Fast forward to after my divorce. I'm seeing an IEI, who meets all of the social compatibility requirements. She is incredibly beautiful, intelligent, and hot. Very hot, very feminine. Our numbers are the same. But the psychological requirements are off. She has never been with an LIE before, never spent time with one, and she subconsciously wants SLE behavior. Now, I've had a lot of fun hanging out with male SLE's, they're great fun if you're not serious about anything, and I think I can say what their approach to women is, because I've seen it time after time after time. It is basically, You are my property, I own you, get down on the floor, because I'm gonna **** you right here.
    This is not my normal approach at all. The crazy thing is, when I'm with the IEI, I can feel myself turning into an SLE. I become more in the present, more sensory, louder, more demonstrative, more, Um, clear about what she should do. Expressing any kind of reflective thought cools her off. Also, she locks on when I give her practical support. It is like she can't see me unless I approach her this way. And as I said, her selectively positive responses to SLE behavior are changing me into an SLE, which is not good at all.
    She needs someone who is psychologically strong, I am that. She wants to be in a no-criticism zone, I do that naturally. She wants someone who understands her and doesn't judge her and lets her be herself, and I'm fine there. But she wants me to be an SLE in micro-details, and that's not going to happen. We have great social compatibility, but not so good psychological compatibility. A union between us would look great to others, but would not be that comfortable for us, because we would always be adapting our behavior to the other person.


    Contrast that with a woman I've been seeing weekly (platonically) for several years. I buy lunch from her, and for a long time I didn't “see” her as anyone special, but would talk with her when she wasn't busy. Gradually, I started to realize that she was more than a background female, and I thought she might be my semi-dual, because I liked her but there was no spark there. I wanted to tell her about Socionics, so she could improve some of the decisions she made, and said “S*****, do you find me easy to talk to?”, intending to lead into a discussion of psychological compatibility in information processing between types, and she paused, didn't look at me, thought about her answer for exactly the right number of micro-seconds, and said “Yes”.
    Her answer then, and in fact all of the interactions we've had, have been exactly what I am comfortable with. She took the Socionics test, and got ESI, which is my Dual. So I liked her before I knew anything about her. The problem is that our social numbers are very, very different, because I'm too old for her. We would be perfect on a desert island, and reviled on a city street. The 1974 Lina Wertmueller movie “Swept Away By An Unusual Destiny In The Blue Sea of August” illustrated this, although I swear, that particular movie was an IEI-SLE relationship.


    These examples are a bit extreme, but they illustrate a very real principle which is true to some extent in every relationship.


    So, is duality over-idealized?
    My answer, if I were a math guy, would be to say Duality is necessary, but not sufficient.


    One last thing, to any IEI's who might not like their SLE duals in theory or in practice. Not every dual pair is equally fortunate. Personally, I think the LSE-EII pair is happiest and most productive (Tolstoy thought it was LIE-ESI), and I think the IEI-SLE pair has the most disagreements, but I think your dual is the best you can do, psychologically. Maybe you can trade some psychological points for some social points, if you want that, but you should be aware that that is what you are doing.

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    This thread is going to be jumping.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird View Post
    lol.


    I'm putting you on my ignore list, FYI. So congrats on being the first.


    I see your comment developing into the usual drama that you like to stir, and I don't have time to sit around and involve myself in the Marista show on highlighting all the ways she's different from all the people that have self-typed EII on this site, because of course they're typed wrong. I have too much productive stuff to do.
    Great, no problem. good luck

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    Is duality over-idealized?
    No. Not in my opinion, not in my experience.
    Duality is not the only thing you need for a great relationship, but I believe it is one of the necessary ingredients. The two things you need for a great relationship are psychological compatibility and social compatibility. Duality satisfies the first. The second is satisfied when two people have common life goals, are at a similar point in life and want the same things, find each other physically and mentally attractive, have similar politics, etc. The list goes on and on, but these are the things you need if you are going to live publicly with someone else.

    I would say sexual-emotional compatibility, intellectual compatibility, then social compatibility. The psychological compatibility derives from this aggregate.


    It is entirely possible (and I believe this happens all the time. All the time....) that two people will meet, will decide that their social compatibility is perfect and their psychological compatibility is not that great but what relationship is perfect they all need work I know I'm not that easy to live with etc etc etc and decide to get married. The divorce rate is over 50%.

    Do you happen to know the marriage+​divorce rate for dual couples?


    I was married to a woman who is not my dual, but she satisfied every other point on that list, and more. It was great for years, we made an attractive couple (still do when we go out, we're friends), but the details accumulated and we are now divorced. By “details”, I mean the micro-reactions that you always get from someone in a relationship, because I believe that everyone is subconsciously oriented toward their dual, and is looking for the response that their dual would naturally provide. If you don't get that response, you start asking yourself if the other person is really there for you. Can you rely on them to be there when you need them? Do they respond to you emotionally, do they truly value you, and can you confide in them without fear of rejection or criticism?

    I'm subconsciously oriented towards people who can turn me on and who can activate new sides of me. Novel, transforming experiences. Sometimes also ppl who embody some aspect of men I jibed with in the past. A chord is stricken, a feeling is born.


    A person might satisfy most or all of those questions to some degree or other, but a dual is probably going to respond exactly the way you need and expect most of the time. Not all of the time. But most of the time.

    I don't wanna be cruel, but you are acting and thinking on Ni when you look into ppl responding how you expect them to. I take them for what they are ...naturally .. reactions come up organically out of our communication. I don't expect anyone to be something/someone else.


    Now, I should say, that while everyone wants the things I mentioned above, not everyone gets those things in the same way. Part of that is pretty well described in the article Erotic Attitudes, by Silke, but here are two examples from my own life.
    I'm an ENTJ, or LIE. I fell in love with my INFJ (IEI) aunt when I was a little kid. She loved me, my mother didn't, and my emotional, reptilian brain fixated on IEI behavior as safe and loving. My favorite, closest cousin is also an IEI. We grew up together, and as I grew up, I adapted to (came to accept and appreciate and protect) her behavior. So not only am I emotionally attracted to IEI's, I also play well with them.

    Here you are, you have your own INFJ fetish that is playing out in your life. If they are all IEIs, you're fucked. You should supervise them.


    Fast forward to after my divorce. I'm seeing an IEI, who meets all of the social compatibility requirements. She is incredibly beautiful, intelligent, and hot. Very hot, very feminine. Our numbers are the same. But the psychological requirements are off. She has never been with an LIE before, never spent time with one, and she subconsciously wants SLE behavior. Now, I've had a lot of fun hanging out with male SLE's, they're great fun if you're not serious about anything, and I think I can say what their approach to women is, because I've seen it time after time after time. It is basically, You are my property, I own you, get down on the floor, because I'm gonna **** you right here.

    Do you think Gamma SFs don't fuck anyone right there.

    This is not my normal approach at all. The crazy thing is, when I'm with the IEI, I can feel myself turning into an SLE. I become more in the present, more sensory, louder, more demonstrative, more, Um, clear about what she should do. Expressing any kind of reflective thought cools her off. Also, she locks on when I give her practical support. It is like she can't see me unless I approach her this way. And as I said, her selectively positive responses to SLE behavior are changing me into an SLE, which is not good at all.

    It's good for you if you become more sensory and in-the-moment ... gets close to dualizing (partly).

    She needs someone who is psychologically strong, I am that. She wants to be in a no-criticism zone, I do that naturally. She wants someone who understands her and doesn't judge her and lets her be herself, and I'm fine there. But she wants me to be an SLE in micro-details, and that's not going to happen. We have great social compatibility, but not so good psychological compatibility. A union between us would look great to others, but would not be that comfortable for us, because we would always be adapting our behavior to the other person.

    We all adapt our behavior to ppl we care about one way or another. That's fairly normal in relationships.


    Contrast that with a woman I've been seeing weekly (platonically) for several years. I buy lunch from her, and for a long time I didn't “see” her as anyone special, but would talk with her when she wasn't busy. Gradually, I started to realize that she was more than a background female, and I thought she might be my semi-dual, because I liked her but there was no spark there. I wanted to tell her about Socionics, so she could improve some of the decisions she made, and said “S*****, do you find me easy to talk to?”, intending to lead into a discussion of psychological compatibility in information processing between types, and she paused, didn't look at me, thought about her answer for exactly the right number of micro-seconds, and said “Yes”.
    Her answer then, and in fact all of the interactions we've had, have been exactly what I am comfortable with. She took the Socionics test, and got ESI, which is my Dual. So I liked her before I knew anything about her. The problem is that our social numbers are very, very different, because I'm too old for her. We would be perfect on a desert island, and reviled on a city street. The 1974 Lina Wertmueller movie “Swept Away By An Unusual Destiny In The Blue Sea of August” illustrated this, although I swear, that particular movie was an IEI-SLE relationship.

    You can date her without marrying her. A man of your age is often pretty cool for a younger woman ...provided that other prerequisites are met, ofc.


    These examples are a bit extreme, but they illustrate a very real principle which is true to some extent in every relationship.
    So, is duality over-idealized?
    My answer, if I were a math guy, would be to say Duality is necessary, but not sufficient.


    One last thing, to any IEI's who might not like their SLE duals in theory or in practice. Not every dual pair is equally fortunate. Personally, I think the LSE-EII pair is happiest and most productive (Tolstoy thought it was LIE-ESI), and I think the IEI-SLE pair has the most disagreements, but I think your dual is the best you can do, psychologically. Maybe you can trade some psychological points for some social points, if you want that, but you should be aware that that is what you are doing.

    You're hooked on the Beta irrational duality now.



    -------------------------------------------


    Summary of all this monologue : AS doesn't love his hot IEI as he feels he can/could love someone else. He admires her, he finds her intelligent, attractive, a nice "social trophy", I could say, if I wanted to be mean, which I don't. He prolly wants to fuck her as often as possible, but he doesn't completely trust her to think in future terms and want to make her "his property". Communication gets brittle somewhere. I hope sex is heavenly. If she turns AS into some SLE-ish little beast ...as he claims ... she's prolly not really submissive (an aspect I thought a LIE may find not pleasing enough). From what I gather he also suspects she might be interested in him for money and other earthly pleasures ...and doesn't have enough methods to test that or what.
    End.
    Last edited by Amber; 05-24-2015 at 11:06 PM.

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    I met an SLI when I was young. He was looking for an ingredient of a wife; smart, educated trophy. I was fairly shy and inexpressive, much more so than now. I felt repressed by this individual and his inability to interpret me as I too was unable to articulate myself, my wants needs. I thank heavens up and down for that not working out. Sure people want to be with a "pretty face" pffffffff. Now when i look at a young lady in love with a man who expects certain things I don't see it as "well, time will tell" I see it as "what an asshole, shallow, self unaware, unable to see through and interpret on a higher level." I'm quiet but age and intellect (awareness of the world workings) have nothing to do with it as people will learn things, if they want. One of my friends is a PHD physicist and yet she wears ordinary clothes and when she speaks to anyone she finds the genius in every individual. I too treat every human being as though they are smart and capable. Because it's not that we often want people to be smart heads we want people because they make us feel good about ourselves. The SLI married an SEE who belittles him not because she's SEE but because she doesn't know how to better treat him.

    So, lesson, treat them like they are smart and capable.

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    Do you happen to know the marriage+​divorce rate for dual couples? No. I wish I did. There have been almost no formal studies done on marital compatibility based on type. I've tracked down three papers, but they are not really conclusive, and actually contradict each other, probably because they were seeking to answer slightly different questions.

    I don't wanna be cruel, but you are acting and thinking on Ni when you look into ppl responding how you expect them to. I take them for what they are ...naturally .. reactions come up organically out of our communication. I don't expect anyone to be something/someone else. It's not that I consciously expect people to act one way or another. I actually like to be surprised by people, I'm naturally curious about them, and want to find out who they really are, and I think having expectations would affect the results. So, I'm hands-off when it comes to conscious expectations about people's behavior. But I have discovered that I'm pleased and become happy when I get Dual responses.

    Here you are, you have your own INFJ fetish that is playing out in your life. If they are all IEIs, you're fucked. You should supervise them.
    Well, two things. No one wants to be supervised. My ex-wife did that to me without being aware of it, and I hated it. My growing up with my IEI cousin taught me how to avoid supervising IEI's. Never tell them how to be more efficient. They'll listen, but they can't do it, and they'll resent you for being right. Just have faith that they'll do what's best, and support them in getting there their own way. The problem with the present IEI isn't that I supervise her, it is that she wants an SLE who also demonstrates Ti. Regarding the IEI fetish, Yes, I'm fucked. The lizard brain knows what it wants, and it lets me know by pointing at it. Fortunately, I have a rational mammalian brain on top of that. And the rational brain now knows about Duality. I'm confident it can retrain the lizard brain through experience, because the lizard brain doesn't have language and doesn't listen to reason.

    Do you think Gamma SFs don't fuck anyone right there.
    I think they do. I know they do. After I discovered Socionics, I went back and tried to type all my relationships, based on the women's behavior over time. There was only one, um, brief encounter that I think I can type, because she was special. I think she was an ESI, because we got along so well. The bars had closed, it was raining lightly, and I was walking back to my parents house, where I was visiting, when I heard footsteps behind me in the dark. I stopped and waited, and a girl walked up and without a word, we started walking along together. Twenty minutes later she was naked behind the baseball field backstop. Which doesn't really mean anything by itself, but we then stayed together, went on to my parent's house, picked up some alcohol, and spent the rest of that night and the entire next day by a river in the woods in a large park, being rained on, talking and having sex. It was great, but it was more than great. It was comfortable. So comfortable, that I think in retrospect, she was an ESI. So, if she was indeed Gamma SF, she set the record for “right there”.

    It's good for you if you become more sensory and in-the-moment ... gets close to dualizing (partly). I don't have problems with that, but I'm reluctant to give up my good judgment.

    You can date her without marrying her. A man of your age is often pretty cool for a younger woman ...provided that other prerequisites are met, ofc.
    I'm old enough to be her father. Her friends would find that revolting. Everyone reading this would find that revolting. I know she's attracted to me. I know she'd date me. I know she'd sleep with me, and the sex (and companionship and comfort) would be great. I also know her friends would be revolted. I also know that every single friend of mine whom I have asked about this (because I have extremely weak ethics and get advice before doing out-of-the-ordinary things) has paused.....and said..... You need to find someone your own age. Thanks for the green light, Amber, but because she is my dual and would probably fall in love with me, my plan is to not hurt her or wreck her life. In any case, there are other, demographically suitable Duals out there, both for her and for me. I've calculated that there are 90 of them (for me) in a population of 150k. The problem is finding them. Most of them seem to be at home all the time.

    You're hooked on the Beta irrational duality now.
    Not hooked. Just idling.

    -------------------------------------------

    Summary of all this monologue : AS doesn't love his hot IEI as he feels he can/could love someone else.
    True. I did fall in love with her. But people can love many others.
    He admires her, he finds her intelligent, attractive, a nice "social trophy", I could say, if I wanted to be mean, which I don't.
    She's not a trophy. She's an equal. She is different from me, but equal. But otherwise, True.
    He prolly wants to fuck her as often as possible, but he doesn't completely trust her to think in future terms and want to make her "his property". Communication gets brittle somewhere. I hope sex is heavenly. If she turns AS into some SLE-ish little beast ...as he claims ... she's prolly not really submissive (an aspect I thought a LIE may find not pleasing enough).
    True, if I've parsed that correctly. This is just about the only problem, but it is a problem.
    From what I gather he also suspects she might be interested in him for money and other earthly pleasures ...and doesn't have enough methods to test that or what.
    Well, here, you're both wrong and right. I have tested that. She is not interested in my money per se, but she enjoys luxury and is interested in my help. But that help can take non-monetary forms and it still makes her happy.

    End.
    Well, Amber, if I ever doubted your ability to see deeply into people based on very little information, I don't now.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-25-2015 at 01:01 AM. Reason: formating

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    Uhm, no, baby. Stop using crappy Ne-- with -- Ti-- creative-ohoho ready-made imaginary generalising notions when you should actually read&understand each person you meet on the spot and get to know them for what they are. Dunno ..see what they're made of, why they say and do certain things ,,, what they personally like and need ...dunno. Just saying.
    That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard and you don't even believe in it lol, you basically just randomly went on a rampage on the poor gal making rampant generalizations and crazy judgements instead of doing what you preach. Find some consistency

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    Both my dual and I strive towards the same goal: to have a comfortable life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMarquee View Post
    That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard and you don't even believe in it lol, you basically just randomly went on a rampage on the poor gal making rampant generalizations and crazy judgements instead of doing what you preach. Find some consistency
    So now an ILE shows up to tell me what I believe in.
    No, she was the inconsistent one and that's what I was criticising in that paragraph - she asked about people's personal experiences and then picked on my genuine answer. She did cool down however after seeing some "lol aw dem feels" (she's Fe-seeking after all...) and me pointing out she can't read ppl at all and ascribes mumbo jumbo motivations due to her Fi polr.

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    not overrated at all.

    find the right one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    So now an ILE shows up to tell me what I believe in.
    No, she was the inconsistent one and that's what I was criticising in that paragraph - she asked about people's personal experiences and then picked on my genuine answer. She did cool down however after seeing some "lol aw dem feels" (she's Fe-seeking after all...) and me pointing out she can't read ppl at all and ascribes mumbo jumbo motivations due to her Fi polr.
    Saying I 'cooled down' means you make the assumption I was riled up. I made a one word jab at your random expletive, which resulted in a diary entry rant full of 'dem feels.' You're projecting.

    Anyway, your answer was appreciated as are the others.

    Interesting feedback so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudette88 View Post
    Saying I 'cooled down' means you make the assumption I was riled up. I made a one word jab at your random expletive, which resulted in a diary entry rant full of 'dem feels.' You're projecting.

    Anyway, your answer was appreciated as are the others.

    Interesting feedback so far.
    It was not random - you were the random one in your reactions to "words" instead of people. It reflected my general attitude towards the theory of duality/intertypes ...which you couldn't see and take for what it was and got entangled in the verbal level of discourse which you embellished with a random tangent. It was a forum post, not a diary entry -- and if you have a problem with people's individual manners of expression, stop quoting me. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    It was not random - you were the random one in your reactions to "words" instead of people. It reflected my general attitude towards the theory of duality/intertypes ...which you couldn't see and take for what it was and got entangled in the verbal level of discourse which you embellished with a random tangent. It was a forum post, not a diary entry -- and if you have a problem with people's individual manners of expression, stop quoting me. Thanks.
    Awww, baby. It was all in good banter. But now I'm bored.

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    Conflict relationship :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudette88 View Post
    Awww, baby. It was all in good banter. But now I'm bored.
    Troll alert

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    Quote Originally Posted by left 4 dead View Post
    Fuck you! Your boredom is not our problem.

    I was referring to my exchange with Amber, not the thread itself or the contributions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by left 4 dead View Post
    What's the difference? It's bullshit either way. No one is responsible for your boredom but you. Are you a prisoner or something?!
    Hope it's not too tight of a squeeze on that bandwagon or perhaps you prefer it that way

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    Quote Originally Posted by left 4 dead View Post
    I'm just trying to flick you
    Lol you're sweet

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    You mean Instinctual Stacking? If so, which ones do you find to be compatible? Just curious.
    Sx first is the most compatible .... to such an extent that a relationship with an Sx often proves superior to one that should be mana-from-the-sky socionically.

    Sx/so is incredibly compatible, but there's lots of tension as well due to a form of "total commitment anxiety". You feel the Sx pull that wants to merge and give it all, but at the same time Sx/so has to feel free to be safe. If you let them be, they come to you. If you make them jealous, they can be like puppies. If you make claims, you risk losing them.

    Sp/so is very calming, very dedicated and trustable usually ...it makes for an interesting dynamic.... but I don't think I actually ever had such a partner. So/sp has a fetish for power stuff that -- must admit - sometimes turns me on. It's engaging and demanding, makes me work and think and asks stuff from me, which can be cool. So/sx is very positive, very sweet, but sometimes I don't know if they don't like everyone the same way. We flirt a lot and keep the vibe up high, but there are attachment questions at play. Sp/sx is the most far-off , autistic, and bland to me romantically or erotically speaking.

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    These ideal forms we call the "types" are a nonreality. Existence precedes essence. read more Heidegger and Sartre

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