How to strengthen your Se

[Ananke]

You know how sensors, particularly Se-egos annoyingly enough tend to just "know" how powerful a person is in any given situation, or how to move that person around or how to win any discussion? Or just tend to know what is going on in any weird ass situation and land on their feet miraculously, defying destiny and all laws of logics?

That is because of Se.

Somebody asked me how to get better at and I thought to give a general recipe for all n00bs.

First, however, some lovely Ti to explain what Se is, as people with weak Se tend to not have a clue:
- Se is irrational - it means it pulls from an unconscious pool of information to reach conclusions without having to slowly step-by-step think to reach a conclusion, that's a reason why Se is so quick. It just reacts based on knowledge that comes from the unconscious.
- Se is extraverted - it means it relates to reality without filtering information through the self, and is thus "objective" in nature - another reason why it is fast.
- Se is external - it means it looks at the tangible connections when it filters through the unconscious, not intangible connections. In contrast to Ne, it thus provides more information about the situation - a bit like augmented reality - than what is really there. Ne is also irrational and extraverted, but pulls in more or less unrelated concepts to the situation and thus "widens" information about the situations. Ne pulls this informations from an unconscious pool of concepts and thoughts from the past, while Se pulls from an unconscious pool of emotions felt and situations seen in the past.

How is this pool built in the psyche?

Remember how you walked on the street and some person yelled from a window at another person? Or that you walked by the seaside and a seagull made some crazy sounds? Or how you saw a flower bed with extra red flowers?

What did you do when you experienced these things? IEIs would typically start fantasizing about reasons why these things happen... This is a way to not do Se. If you want to do Se, you have to build the unconscious connections between reality and the Se perception of reality.

It is done this way: You hear a person yelling from a window. You turn your head and observe what is going on. You understand what it going on. This is repeated 500 times over the first 20 years you live. In the end, you have a big pool of unconscious knowledge about how people yell in different situations when they have different emotions and different goals. So, after more and more of such incidents observed, Se can start doing it's "augmented reality" when hearing a person yelling. The Se-ego can estimate what the person yelling looks like without even looking at him/her (a fat person has a different sounding voice than a skinny person, for example). They can estimate if the person is yelling in fear, anger or just to get the person's attention. They can estimate if the goal will be reached or not. All that happens in a split second and is not conscious to the Se-ego, it just happens, and it seems to the Se-ego as if the information is in the situation, and it is, just that you need an unconscious pool that has to be built in order to understand it correctly.

So, to strengthen your Se, you just do the same thing. Instead of fantasizing about what might be going on, you turn your head and observe. Do it enough times, and your unconscious will feed you relevant information in any situation that is similar. You will know that the seagull is screaming because it's about to attack another seagull having food, without even turning your head, you will know if it is screaming to call other seagulls as it has spotted food, you will know that the person yelling is screaming for her boyfriend to get some more stuff from the store even without hearing the words completely and you will know that the extra red flowers in the flower bed were just planted the other day and are fresh from the store, etc etc. etc. You'll also know how much force is needed to talk a person into something and you'll know so much about a situation you are in that you won't even know how you landed on your feet. Again.

Good luck.

[aixelsyd]

Good advice. This is exactly how I experience Se, btw.

[Beautiful sky]

Yup....

My SEE brother said after having observered me not eating for a whole day "youre a anorexic" even though I'm not.

And my SLE coworker said having observed me take pain killers "don't you look like a druggie" :/ both hit my polr both make me feel inadequate both make me feel less than

[The Exception]

Good advice but it just seems way toooo hard for this Se PoLR. I have to think about how the incoming information fits into my mental Ti map and extrapolate Ne possibilities off of that. I just can't or don't want to turn that off.

[ouronis]

Is this really Se? I know some people can't do this as well or don't care to but I assumed if you've lived any number of years at all, you come to accumulate unconscious knowledge about any often-occuring situation. I thought this was just general intelligence, pattern-seeking kind of thing.

[strrrng]

the problem is doing it consistently... it's almost as if an Ni-dominant, by somewhat indulging their more lateral perceptions, can reach Se, albeit circuitously. otherwise I find it hard to 'turn on' like this frequently, but your advice is good.

[Myst]

while Se pulls from an unconscious pool of emotions felt and situations seen in the past.

How are emotions related to this Se stuff?

What did you do when you experienced these things? IEIs would typically start fantasizing about reasons why these things happen... This is a way to not do Se. If you want to do Se, you have to build the unconscious connections between reality and the Se perception of reality.

Well to consistently keep Se in the conscious and only Se and nothing else, for a non-Se ego so many connections would be needed to be built up while inhibiting already existing *and* preferred ones (in the brain) that it sounds like an impossible task.. so one won't change cognitive type after a certain age in childhood (in the very early years maybe you still can). Unless you have some brain injury in an accident or something but that's a quite different issue.

It is done this way: You hear a person yelling from a window. You turn your head and observe what is going on. You understand what it going on. This is repeated 500 times over the first 20 years you live. In the end, you have a big pool of unconscious knowledge about how people yell in different situations when they have different emotions and different goals. So, after more and more of such incidents observed, Se can start doing it's "augmented reality" when hearing a person yelling. The Se-ego can estimate what the person yelling looks like without even looking at him/her (a fat person has a different sounding voice than a skinny person, for example). They can estimate if the person is yelling in fear, anger or just to get the person's attention. They can estimate if the goal will be reached or not. All that happens in a split second and is not conscious to the Se-ego, it just happens, and it seems to the Se-ego as if the information is in the situation, and it is, just that you need an unconscious pool that has to be built in order to understand it correctly.

I wouldn't necessarily estimate if the goal will be reached, that for me depends on how much unambiguous data is available & is it sufficient data to make such a conclusion.

Another thing is, just as a contrasting example, I find Ni types can be pretty observant too in their own way. They often can be pretty well tuned into how things are going on and where they are heading, at least I find this true for gamma NTs. Overall, many of the conclusions you list above can be had via other IE's in ego. I'm not sure how much of what you described above is Se ego specific.

What would definitely be Se specific is if all the objective sensory information is available in your consciousness. This can give some advantages but other people may also be able to access some of the advantages via other IE's and functions. Such as, when you mention that Se is quick because irrational, that's not exactly accurate, as being fast is not exclusive to that quality, one can be fast in a situation even with other IE leading instead of Se.

So, to strengthen your Se, you just do the same thing. Instead of fantasizing about what might be going on, you turn your head and observe. Do it enough times, and your unconscious will feed you relevant information in any situation that is similar. You will know that the seagull is screaming because it's about to attack another seagull having food, without even turning your head, you will know if it is screaming to call other seagulls as it has spotted food, you will know that the person yelling is screaming for her boyfriend to get some more stuff from the store even without hearing the words completely and you will know that the extra red flowers in the flower bed were just planted the other day and are fresh from the store, etc etc. etc. You'll also know how much force is needed to talk a person into something and you'll know so much about a situation you are in that you won't even know how you landed on your feet. Again.

As said above, for someone who's not Se ego, if the goal is wanting to keep all this in the conscious, this is not a fruitful goal if wishing to apply it in all areas of life consistently and may not even be necessary because of what I said above about being able to orient in other ways. But of course, overall, anyone should be able to refine their sensations in specific areas that they do regularly focus on. Unless someone's really hopelessly tuned out, lol.

And, one more comment, I don't think Se in the ego is just about passive observation of the objective world as directly perceived via the senses. I mean, of course, Se ego types will have all that data in their consciousness in a nice refined high dimensional way but it's also a lifestyle of a very concrete life with all of its consequences, which is what socionics also tries to get at.

Edit: I realize you were talking about more than just the passive observation at the end of the post where you were listing a few advantages of strong Se perception, but that's the sort of thing that really probably needs a more targeted approach than just trying to focus all the time on sensory data in a conscious way.

[Myst]

OK so I would like to add how I see Se, to give context to my post and to add to Ananke's to clarify more really just describing in more detail the same unconscious pool and the idea of augmented reality made up of tangible connections filtered out of the pool. Also emphasizing what sort of data is in the consciousness because that's also part of conscious Se.

So high-dimensional Se in Ego means that your consciousness only holds the objective sensory data and only that data, all of it as directly perceived without any of this data being overlaid or obscured by any other type of information. The objective sensory data is simply not mixed together with other information types, in a Jungian sense this is called differentiated Se or abstract Se. Other information types are most often just kept unconscious in this mode.

Unconsciously, what Ananke was referring to, what is required for Se to function is a large collection of refined sensory templates to make sense of things in a Se way, kind of a basic level of prediction being applied to each situation; I call this a prediction because you don't have to reconsider the entire situation putting in extra effort, you can just match the templates if applicable. Those predictive templates are rooted in much of previous direct sensory experience where by "predictive" I mean immediately predictive, applying inside the situation, not at all like consciously looking ahead to future.

As Se ego, you will have a strong sense of realism that this type of focus lends to you as the prediction is made in terms of what's like 99% probable to interpret the situation correctly in a realistic way while not even thinking of the other possibilities that put together have like 1% chance of fitting the situation because they simply do not match closely enough in a direct sensory fashion. (I'm making up numbers here but it's something like that usually.) So when I said if applicable, that means the situation has to match the template or set of templates tangibly and very realistically. And of course, Se ego when looking around in a new type of situation, will build new refined sensory templates effortlessly that will be stored without having to even think consciously.

The Se orientation thus does mean a strong focus on what's actually here and not associating to anything else past it. When someone with such conscious exclusive Se orientation sees an object, be it tangibly visible or be it verbalizing about an object, there is no jumping to values based in Feeling/Ethics, no categorization or reasoning in a way characteristic of Thinking/Logic and certainly no far-flung associations are created in an Intuitive way. Of course Se egos/Se base types will still have other IE's active, at times coming to the conscious or always staying unconscious roughly in the way Model A describes.

Overall, something typical Se like knowing how much force to apply is the result of a mix of many situations seen and good sensory perception available at any time. Ananke's examples are pretty good for this, I just want to emphasize that the idea is that the sensory perception in these examples is really very refined as the Se allows you to tune in really well and consciously. E.g. how powerful a person is, that has many refined aspects that are just put together in one neat picture from the pool of templates. Other things that were mentioned that are more generic and thus not necessarily directly Se, like figuring out your way in a situation can be done via Se or other IE's as well. Actually I think even notions about power can also be accessed via other IEs but that would be not done in a conscious Se way directly. Different type of perception or knowledge.

[Words]

Good advice but it just seems way toooo hard for this Se PoLR. I have to think about how the incoming information fits into my mental Ti map and extrapolate Ne possibilities off of that. I just can't or don't want to turn that off.

Really? Interesting, I thought everyone seen the world as this, and the other was just daydreaming?

[Ananke]

the problem is doing it consistently... it's almost as if an Ni-dominant, by somewhat indulging their more lateral perceptions, can reach Se, albeit circuitously. otherwise I find it hard to 'turn on' like this frequently, but your advice is good.

Well, you wouldn't want to lose your NiFe blind seer posture, sitting in a haze staring at internal spaceships floating by, thinking them magical as you have no clue what spaceship is the more important one, and thinking yourself special for being so in the matrix, don't disrupt it with Se, right?? I thought so. So then you can't do Se consistently....

Joke aside (did I describe Ni well, btw? ) EP is not something a dynamic person really CAN do consistently, and as @chips and underwear says, it's not something a Ne-ego can easily do without disrupting their Ne channel. It's more a place to go to for IXIs, to ground themselves once in a while when they need it. Your Se unconscious pool is there, anyway, as you have seen things in your life already, it's just a bit slower and less accurate than in a person who observes reality non-stop and who - as @Myst hinted at - focuses on the realism of it non-stop. Though a Se check-in can probably be good once in a while, to not float off on one of those spaceships.

[strrrng]

idk... I tend to think that the way to go is strengthening the ego functions, and letting the superid manifest as it will. my best Se moments (aside from the afterglow of interacting with Se types) have always been unexpected and spontaneous, and my sense is that this is how superid functions optimally operate, short bursts or something. it's kind of a double-edged sword, I guess, because on the one hand superid functions are apparently weak, things we need help with; but they're also valued, and so form a more fundamental and indelible perceptual layer... so I actually think that going out of one's way to strengthen them can be counter-productive. they pertain to pure creation, in this sense.

and yeah, you described Ni decently.

[Ananke]

idk... I tend to think that the way to go is strengthening the ego functions, and letting the superid manifest as it will. my best Se moments (aside from the afterglow of interacting with Se types) have always been unexpected and spontaneous, and my sense is that this is how superid functions optimally operate, short bursts or something. it's kind of a double-edged sword, I guess, because on the one hand superid functions are apparently weak, things we need help with; but they're also valued, and so form a more fundamental and indelible perceptual layer... so I actually think that going out of one's way to strengthen them can be counter-productive. they pertain to pure creation, in this sense.

I don't think it is possible to strengthen unconscious functions anyway. The thread is more a tongue-in-cheek way to explain how Se works, than actually meant as advice. I see that everybody took it seriously, and that's ok, and it's not completely a joke, since what I said IS the advice to people with weak Se to ground themselves, but grounding is different from actually performing Se. You can look around you, and I doubt you will be doing Se for real, but maybe you'll be more grounded. And yes, what you said is exactly how I experience Ni information. <3 the afterglow of Ni.

and yeah, you described Ni decently.

lol

[Kim]

It's really challenging to SEE things. I really would like to see the world like a sensor. Once I was looking for an outlet in my hotel room and just could not find one that did not require moving furniture (which I ended up doing). After two days I noticed that there was an outlet literally right in front of me by the desk. But it was brown. My concept of outlet is white. I didn't SEE the freaking outlet!

So even when I make an effort to turn my head and see, I know I only see a fraction of what you see, @Ananke, and soon enough my mind drifts again.

[The Exception]

It's really challenging to SEE things. I really would like to see the world like a sensor. Once I was looking for an outlet in my hotel room and just could not find one that did not require moving furniture (which I ended up doing). After two days I noticed that there was an outlet literally right in front of me by the desk. But it was brown. My concept of outlet is white. I didn't SEE the freaking outlet!

So even when I make an effort to turn my head and see, I know I only see a fraction of what you see, @Ananke, and soon enough my mind drifts again.

Yes, this is definitely me! I have a concept on what things should look like in my head. If reality doesn't match up with that internal concept, I might miss it altogether.

[Myst]

Yes, this is definitely me! I have a concept on what things should look like in my head. If reality doesn't match up with that internal concept, I might miss it altogether.

That's really weird but thx for the insight into your mind

[Myst]

Is there a "How to strengthen your Si" thread? I love this post a lot lol but I don't have the same difficulties being aware of my environment as much as some of y'all. But Si? fuuuucccckkkk

Lol well that's your PoLR so it'd have to involve additional tricks that no one discovered yet O_o

Anyway if I was to take this seriously (which I know it was not), things coming to mind would be like, when experiencing some bit of unexplicable physical discomfort, the Si PoLR person could use methods for going through the most common causes to determine if the discomfort is even meaningful, utilizing learned Si knowledge through focus on lots of personal experience. Umm, I could think about this more, in another thread maybe

[marooned]

i'd recommend those guided meditations for "feeling your body" for increasing and doing them regularly. with this increased attention perhaps there will be time for greater things to develop?

i see and as simply not being able to "run" at the same time. in order to engage one must "turn off" . although turning off may not make sense, if you have activated that means is "off." if one can focus thoroughly on these guided "feeling your body" meditations, where you're just doing what the meditation tells you to do, then should technically be "off." (it will want to come back on though, of course... it will always be coming back on and drowning out the physical focus.)

or, just give up.

clarification: i don't see it really as so strictly off/on... it's more, as awareness of one rises, awareness of the other fades.

- ; - ; - ; - all operate this way together in the conscious ring. it's the awareness of the one that is blocking or eclipsing the awareness of the other, although i'm probably thinking mainly of lead and role for this...

also, i'd add, with one's PoLR, why bother with it. i'd much rather work on my HA than my PoLR. i see the HA as the work-around for the PoLR. so actually, the HA will be in the way of the PoLR too. there's just no room for the PoLR to ever blossom. time to forget that info exists. (:

[Myst]

clarification: i don't see it really as so strictly off/on... it's more, as awareness of one rises, awareness of the other fades.

You were using base/role function example in your own case yeah? I see role as strictly on/off in my case. As for PoLR, it's not even that. It's like almost impossible to access so I see the solution more as using workarounds to fake access via creative function or via HA or some other (not function-related) way.

- ; - ; - ; - all operate this way together in the conscious ring. it's the awareness of the one that is blocking or eclipsing the awareness of the other, although i'm probably thinking mainly of lead and role for this...

also, i'd add, with one's PoLR, why bother with it. i'd much rather work on my HA than my PoLR. i see the HA as the work-around for the PoLR. so actually, the HA will be in the way of the PoLR too. there's just no room for the PoLR to ever blossom. time to forget that info exists. (:

Exactly. I'm not sure the HA is the only one workaround though.

[wacey]

Most relatable description of Se I have read in a long time.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

How to strengthen your Ni:

People with poor Ni tend to read into things that aren't there (think something is deeper/more complicated than it really is) or the opposite, they are really dense about stuff and can't read between the lines.

You have to know how to go inwardly, which might mean - getting over your sense of arrogance and self-importance.

Ni is for the Chosen Ones only... Se can be obtained through grit and repetition. And getting over your emoness and lifting weights. But teaching magical spells to a dumb person, is a lot harder. Ni is innately better than Se, because paper covers rock.

A Se person might have more of a chance in a REAL LIFE fight, and everybody compliments them on this but the Ni ego knows how to avoid those situations in the first place (mixed with valued Fi or Fe people skills)... which in the long run is better anyway. ((and if an IEI sweetie does get slaughtered in battle, that Break the Cutie moment will inspire certain rage from their duals that will finish things)) Nobody cares when a Se-ego dies as much, since the heart isn't as pure.

Anyways like u implied, Se is the sort of 'default warrior class' of the functions. Anybody can improve their Se, like what Bill Gates does when he's more assertive. But not many ppl can ever hope to improve their Ni. Ni is a special snowflake, Se is just bein a basic bitch.

Ni Fantasies hold the power of one-thousand Se punches. (but in the true nature of reality, they are combined. Like a long porno field of awesome)

The Ni Pen is Mightier than the Se sword.

[marooned]

and if an IEI sweetie does get slaughtered in battle, that Break the Cutie moment

ugh.

[Ananke]

How to strengthen your Ni:

People with poor Ni tend to read into things that aren't there (think something is deeper/more complicated than it really is) or the opposite, they are really dense about stuff and can't read between the lines.

People with strong Ni tend to do this, too. They call it anxiety and paranoia, and invent all sort of stuff in their heads without relation to reality.

You have to know how to go inwardly, which might mean - getting over your sense of arrogance and self-importance.

Letting go of arrogance like this you mean? :

Ni is for the Chosen Ones only...

Se can be obtained through grit and repetition. And getting over your emoness and lifting weights. But teaching magical spells to a dumb person, is a lot harder. Ni is innately better than Se, because paper covers rock.

Nobody can get to Se by repetition, my post isn't serious on being a recipe to Se. The post was meant as a fun way to make people TRY doing Se and realize it's not as easy as people think. I made it also to show how Se is not just observing things, any idiot can see a chair or a ball (or maybe I am wrong about that one @Kim ). Se is about having associations pulled from an unconscious pool, the same way all irrational functions work.

Ni works the exact same way, as it is built upon things thought and conceptualized before. When a Ni-ego watches a situation in their head, what happens is that they store what they watch in a Ni pool. The next time they watch a situations, the old association might come up. Ni associates new thoughts with old thoughts/old concepts non stop. Thus the constant changing from situation to situation in your mind, slowly giving insigth. These associations are - just like in the case of Se - pulled from an unconscious pool. Intuition relies on thoughts and concepts had before, if you haven't had them before, they aren't there. Ni insight is built through repetition, too. (Though the specific focus needed to do this, isn't native to all people, just like the Se focus isn't.)

A Se person might have more of a chance in a REAL LIFE fight, and everybody compliments them on this but the Ni ego knows how to avoid those situations in the first place (mixed with valued Fi or Fe people skills)... which in the long run is better anyway. ((and if an IEI sweetie does get slaughtered in battle, that Break the Cutie moment will inspire certain rage from their duals that will finish things)) Nobody cares when a Se-ego dies as much, since the heart isn't as pure.

Unless there genetically are more people of one type than another, I doubt one type is more successful or more loved than the other, as evolution haven't favored one type. As far as I can see, all functions work together, Ni and Se splendidly so. Ni to come up with broader understanding, Se to ground the understanding in reality and sort/prioritize the information or simply break out of the Ni destiny tracks. Some situations favor one, some another, but in most cased it's better to have both.

Anyways like u implied, Se is the sort of 'default warrior class' of the functions. Anybody can improve their Se, like what Bill Gates does when he's more assertive. But not many ppl can ever hope to improve their Ni. Ni is a special snowflake, Se is just bein a basic bitch.

Wrong, it's just as hard (impossible) for you to strengthen your Se as it is for an SXE to strengthen their Ni. If it was so easy, then why don't all people do it?

Ni Fantasies hold the power of one-thousand Se punches. (but in the true nature of reality, they are combined. Like a long porno field of awesome)

The only person I know punching people was a Ni ego, so I don't share your observation.

The Ni Pen is Mightier than the Se sword.

I love Ni soo, soo, soo much, but your pen didn't work on Ti today, I think

<3

[Ananke]

Hush you. You're making the sensors feel bad.

All that Ni and Fe, and you don't know that he's ultimately making himself feel bad?

(I certainly didn't feel bad, I felt sad for BnD for the bitterness in his post and wanted to give him a hug)

[Words]

Make himself feel bad?! He's EIE. Ain't gonna happen.

He's EII

[Words]

Nope.

Why you ask, well, I'm too tired to play...

Go to sleep little earth

[The Exception]

That's really weird but thx for the insight into your mind

This is normal for me. Se what's weird to me.

[silverchris9]

Thanks for this thread. I enjoyed it a lot. It's nice to see Se described with some depth, which I don't think we see much of. I really like the idea of a set of sensory perceptions and how you know more about the present sensory situation by comparing it to prior sensory situations. So Se will naturally have elements of causality (like Ni), but causality directly: when the seagull makes noise x, it performs action y, where noise x and action y are both actually sensory perceptions. As opposed to Ni where noise x and action y are categories rather than memories of sense events. And it's probably not even component parts like that, right, it's a "snapshot" of the whole seagull-noise-action sequence. So in a sense Se is "faster" than Ni because it's a fairly direct movement of current situation ---> compared to past situations ---> current situation with new info (augmented reality, like you said). This is very interesting! Thanks again.

[Ananke]

Thanks for this thread. I enjoyed it a lot. It's nice to see Se described with some depth, which I don't think we see much of. I really like the idea of a set of sensory perceptions and how you know more about the present sensory situation by comparing it to prior sensory situations. So Se will naturally have elements of causality (like Ni), but causality directly: when the seagull makes noise x, it performs action y, where noise x and action y are both actually sensory perceptions. As opposed to Ni where noise x and action y are categories rather than memories of sense events. And it's probably not even component parts like that, right, it's a "snapshot" of the whole seagull-noise-action sequence. So in a sense Se is "faster" than Ni because it's a fairly direct movement of current situation ---> compared to past situations ---> current situation with new info (augmented reality, like you said). This is very interesting! Thanks again.

Silverchris! How are you?

Yes, you got it. It's sort of snapshot-ish, at least in my mind. A bit like static images with "static" sounds that contains information that can be used to judge causality, like a 4D picture in a way, since it contains information about speed, motivation, direction, sound changes, etc. (so there is a hint of time inside of the static image). (Edit: I don't actually see images most of the time, btw, it's faster than watching images, I sort of just know things as they happen, and don't even always pay attention to what I hear and take in, but if I focus on a sound, I already know what is going on. I can bring up images/soundscapes, etc though, if I want.)

My memories are also stored in such static images. They are a bit like "photos" of certain moments. When I bring up a memory (photo), I can read that image to check for additional information. For example, if somebody asks me "why did he say that in the meeting", then I can bring up an image of the meeting, read body language (or hear the voice) and then answer the question based on gauging motivation in the body postures (or push of the voice) even if I didn't consciously think of this during the meeting. I can also move around objects in the image and see them from angles I didn't really see them from while I was in the meeting, like a 3d camera moving around the person I study, for example. That may be HP cognition related, though, not sure. (Edit: I use the word "image", but in reality it's not only visual, and I see everything from "my perspective" as if I am part of the image, or as if the image is part of me - the image is "around me". Also there are soundscapes (static snapshots, too) in the "image" and my own body movements are included, too and of course also Se information observed during these moments. They have depth in a way an image doesn't, in other words.)

[Skepsis]

Nothing seems to work for long. As soon as my focus on my environment wanes, I return to being barely perceptive that someone has asked me a question or is trying to get my attention. The sounds are distant and my response is delayed. It feels like a tug on my consciousness that tries to pull me from my introversion. But, like a fish out of water I cannot stay out too long.

[Skepsis]

Se feels like masculine energy to me. Experiencing Se is to feel more masculine.

[Myst]

Silverchris! How are you?

Yes, you got it. It's sort of snapshot-ish, at least in my mind. A bit like static images with "static" sounds that contains information that can be used to judge causality, like a 4D picture in a way, since it contains information about speed, motivation, direction, sound changes, etc. (so there is a hint of time inside of the static image). (Edit: I don't actually see images most of the time, btw, it's faster than watching images, I sort of just know things as they happen, and don't even always pay attention to what I hear and take in, but if I focus on a sound, I already know what is going on. I can bring up images/soundscapes, etc though, if I want.)

Hm. We're a bit different there, I do keep the attention on the sensory data itself. That's rather part of strong conscious Se for me. But yes, I sort of know as you say, though I also often have the extra motivation to want to understand rationally.

Mymemories are also stored in such static images. They are a bit like "photos" of certain moments. When I bring up a memory (photo), I can read that image to check for additional information. For example, if somebody asks me "why did he say that in the meeting", then I can bring up an image of the meeting, read body language (or hear the voice) and then answer the question based on gauging motivation in the body postures (or push of the voice) even if I didn't consciously think of this during the meeting. I can also move around objects in the image and see them from angles I didn't really see them from while I was in the meeting, like a 3d camera moving around the person I study, for example. That may be HP cognition related, though, not sure. (Edit: I use the word "image", but in reality it's not only visual, and I see everything from "my perspective" as if I am part of the image, or as if the image is part of me - the image is "around me". Also there are soundscapes (static snapshots, too) in the "image" and my own body movements are included, too and of course also Se information observed during these moments. They have depth in a way an image doesn't, in other words.)

I don't think that's H-P, I can do the same about seeing/imagining any physical object from any angle I want to. This is just good sense of 3D space. As for the entire image, I can imagine it without my own perspective, I do not have to be in it. But yes, all the movements I make are included each one gets recorded along with a snapshot because that's what's highly conscious to me. What I also relate to is ability to pull out extra details that I don't focus on right away when first bringing up the image or when I had seen it in real life originally.

Though for me it's probably not simply Se info that's most salient (more like Ti) but it's still pretty high in my consciousness.

[Ananke]

Hm. We're a bit different there, I do keep the attention on the sensory data itself. That's rather part of strong conscious Se for me. But yes, I sort of know as you say, though I also often have the extra motivation to want to understand rationally.

It's hard to talk about functions separately, they are so mixed. I tried describing what I see in my own head in that last post, and it's super subjective, of course, and not only Se-related, I think.

I don't think that's H-P, I can do the same about seeing/imagining any physical object from any angle I want to. This is just good sense of 3D space. As for the entire image, I can imagine it without my own perspective, I do not have to be in it. But yes, all the movements I make are included each one gets recorded along with a snapshot because that's what's highly conscious to me. What I also relate to is ability to pull out extra details that I don't focus on right away when first bringing up the image or when I had seen it in real life originally.

Though for me it's probably not simply Se info that's most salient (more like Ti) but it's still pretty high in my consciousness.

Cool. It was still very subjective, so I wonder if memories store in different ways in other types?

[Myst]

It's hard to talk about functions separately, they are so mixed. I tried describing what I see in my own head in that last post, and it's super subjective, of course, and not only Se-related, I think.

Well the ego functions should be able to operate pretty independently too in terms of not having other types of information conscious at the same time but yeah.

Cool. It was still very subjective, so I wonder if memories store in different ways in other types?

Well I mentioned that to you before The idea is that conscious stuff is what really gets stored well.

[Ananke]

Well the ego functions should be able to operate pretty independently too in terms of not having other types of information conscious at the same time but yeah.

Well I mentioned that to you before The idea is that conscious stuff is what really gets stored well.

Yes, I can see that there is Se information in my memories, for example, but I don't know if the static image storing is any different from others, still? Somebody who is not me should make a thread about memories and how memories are stored in our psyches.

[Myst]

Yes, I can see that there is Se information in my memories, for example, but I don't know if the static image storing is any different from others, still?

Different in what sense?

Somebody who is not me should make a thread about memories and how memories are stored in our psyches.

This is quite a wide topic in psychology, there's a lot of research on it, do you have any specific questions for that thread.

[Ananke]

Different in what sense?

This is quite a wide topic in psychology, there's a lot of research on it, do you have any specific questions for that thread.

No idea, thus why somebody not me should start that thread.

[Esaman]

.. or how to move that person around or how to win any discussion?

Reminds me of click bait link "Ten tips to win every argument". How about about:
1. Be right
2. Be able to explain/prove how.
3. You are not supposed to win every argument deepshit, only when 1. applies.

[ClownsandEntropy]

I genuinely wouldn't mind a how-to guide on how to improve use of Se...

[Ananke]

Reminds me of click bait link "Ten tips to win every argument". How about about:
1. Be right
2. Be able to explain/prove how.
3. You are not supposed to win every argument deepshit, only when 1. applies.

1. Who talked about not being right? If you see a situation clearer, the chances of being right are bigger, not smaller.
2. Any Se-ego also has support in a Ji function and Ji functions are pretty damn adept at explaining why they are right.
3. Sure, see 1.

[Ananke]

I genuinely wouldn't mind a how-to guide on how to improve use of Se...

I assume you want to avoid making PoLR mistakes? LIIs already have conscious yet 1D Se, so you can make Se more conscious on a 1D level by not avoiding it (as explained in the opening post for example) and by not avoiding people who use Se well, but you cannot really learn to do it on a high level. In general the PoLRs can't do much more than recognize that the function is being used, without seeing the full picture of what it does. You can avoid making PoLR-errors by observing the simple - yet probably correct - rules you do know of your PoLR, and by keeping your HA perfect. You can also avoid making PoLR mistakes by acknowledging that others are better than you at using this function, and that their understanding in 3d or 4d is on a level you cannot access, without help, and thus rely - at least somewhat - on their information. I'd also throw in that you should avoid jerks with strong PoLR functions, but that probably already goes without saying.

I think a good trick for accessing PoLR knowledge is to befriend or work with a supervisor. Supervisors can be really useful in bringing in new knowledge, as they are the only type who can explain the PoLR function to supervisees in a way that makes sense to him/her. An SLE (provided intelligence, interests and focus are in the same realm as the LII) can prioritize and show relevance and connection to real life in different LII theories in a way that makes sense to a LII, and thus help the LII jump miles ahead in a project. Other S-types will not manage to bring Se-information in a useful manner to LIIs, not even LSIs or ESEs. LIIs to me seem to collect 70% rubbish, 20% relevant stuff and 10% gold. I tend to get super excited when I see their gold, but the LIIs themselves often cannot see any difference in their information. It seems to me they don't know what is rubbish and what is gold in their findings.