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Thread: INTjs and physical frailty

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    Default INTjs and physical frailty

    Has anyone else noticed that INTjs seem to be stereotyped as pathetic weaklings?

    All of the ones that are in my family (my ESE mom's dad and uncle, and myself) share a similar body type; tall with broad shoulders, but very slender. They both stand at 6'4", while I am 6'8". However I'm also only 185lb, so you can imagine how slim I am at my height.

    I guess my point is that while I completely relate to most PoLR problems (in particular a complete lack of awareness of my surroundings), I don't necessarily think I "feel" weak. I will admit though that I am very insecure about my ability to act forcefully in a fashion.

    To give you an idea of the body type that runs in my family, here is a picture of my mom's uncle (if you were to take off the coat, he would look quite lanky):

    anderton_janetsparty.jpg

    And yes, he is a research scientist (in Sociology); a pretty archetypal LII career-wise.


    I guess the point of this thread is to ask: has anyone here ever met an INTj who DIDN'T look like a fragile-boned geeky little kid? Or is that stereotype really accurate for the most part?

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    Has anyone else noticed that INTjs seem to be stereotyped as pathetic weaklings?
    in all my years here i've only heard it being said by you.

    guy you posted has a fairly healthy body type that many people would happily trade in for their own.

    that "stereotype" you mention doesn't exist outside of your masochistic suggesting it does. if you have such insecurities, man up, deal with them and don't project them on to a whole category of people.

    @Amber fuck you too.

    ps. assertiveness is not a real limitation of intjs. they have plenty of things to draw on to compensate for lacking Se so if you have a problem in that general area you're just doing something wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ponder View Post
    Has anyone else noticed that INTjs seem to be stereotyped as pathetic weaklings?

    All of the ones that are in my family (my ESE mom's dad and uncle, and myself) share a similar body type; tall with broad shoulders, but very slender. They both stand at 6'4", while I am 6'8". However I'm also only 185lb, so you can imagine how slim I am at my height.

    I guess my point is that while I completely relate to most PoLR problems (in particular a complete lack of awareness of my surroundings), I don't necessarily think I "feel" weak. I will admit though that I am very insecure about my ability to act forcefully in a fashion.

    To give you an idea of the body type that runs in my family, here is a picture of my mom's uncle (if you were to take off the coat, he would look quite lanky):

    anderton_janetsparty.jpg

    And yes, he is a research scientist (in Sociology); a pretty archetypal LII career-wise.


    I guess the point of this thread is to ask: has anyone here ever met an INTj who DIDN'T look like a fragile-boned geeky little kid? Or is that stereotype really accurate for the most part?
    Yes it is a fairly common stereotype. LII sand in your face type, LSE saying 'hey skinny'. On that I know to LIIs who are short and fat.

    @krieger stop screaming and show some manners.

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    This thread is so cute.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    A guy i used to know, who is most likely LII im thinking at this point, is a die-hard muscular athlete who runs marathons quicker than his friends, even though he's shorter. His athleticism really took off after he broke his ankle playing soccer as a kid. He apparently had this amazing physical therapist who really inspired him, and he's a driven person, in general, which is NTR.
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    I know few muscular and stocky LIIs. Tis their genes and they stress eat.

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    If socionics has anything to say about it, I'd think there was a tendency for certain types to build muscle / bulk up. It's they who are the anomaly, not average looking dudes.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ponder View Post
    I guess my point is that while I completely relate to most PoLR problems (in particular a complete lack of awareness of my surroundings), I[B] don't necessarily think I "feel" weak. I will admit though that I am very insecure about my ability to act forcefully in a fashion.[/B]
    Yes to this. I have strong will and determination about several things but I totally lack confidence to act in what's described as an fashion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    Hey, stop mocking my avatar.

    Actually, go ahead. My avatar mocks the ridiculous stereotype of the LII skinny weakling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Yes it is a fairly common stereotype. LII sand in your face type, LSE saying 'hey skinny'. On that I know to LIIs who are short and fat.
    .
    I'm not a skinny weakling but I'm not particularly strong physically either. I'm more on the short and fat side. Not really fat but I could stand to lose about 30 lbs. I just don't see much much purpose in trying to body build. The mental life is more interesting than the physical one.

    So sorry to disappoint you but that guy in my avatar is not me.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Yes to this. I have strong will and determination about several things but I totally lack confidence to act in what's described as an fashion.



    Hey, stop mocking my avatar.

    Actually, go ahead. My avatar mocks the ridiculous stereotype of the LII skinny weakling.



    I'm not a skinny weakling but I'm not particularly strong physically either. I'm more on the short and fat side. Not really fat but I could stand to lose about 30 lbs. I just don't see much much purpose in trying to body build. The mental life is more interesting than the physical one.

    So sorry to disappoint you but that guy in my avatar is not me.
    One of the LIIs who I'm closer to, the doctor told him he's a hypochondriac, he's quite funny with his constant back aches and worrying if his shoes are OK for a night out (one night these shoes cost more than my entire outfit), I think this is as socionics weak S related as socionics can be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    One of the LIIs who I'm closer to, the doctor told him he's a hypochondriac, he's quite funny with his constant back aches and worrying if his shoes are OK for a night out (one night these shoes cost more than my entire outfit), I think this is as socionics weak S related as socionics can be.
    What you describe sounds more like weak than weak LII has weak Si, but all of the ENXx types have even weaker Si according to dimensionality of functions. LII has 2-D Si and ENXx types have 1-D Si. In the case of Se, it's reversed. ENXx types have 2-D Se, LII has 1-D Se.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    What you describe sounds more like weak than weak LII has weak Si, but all of the ENXx types have even weaker Si according to dimensionality of functions. LII has 2-D Si and ENXx types have 1-D Si. In the case of Se, it's reversed. ENXx types have 2-D Se, LII has 1-D Se.
    All kinds of subtle nuances to this stuff eh?
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    All kinds of subtle nuances to this stuff eh?
    Yep.

    More than you ever wanted to know, probably:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...y-of-Functions
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    What you describe sounds more like weak than weak LII has weak Si, but all of the ENXx types have even weaker Si according to dimensionality of functions. LII has 2-D Si and ENXx types have 1-D Si. In the case of Se, it's reversed. ENXx types have 2-D Se, LII has 1-D Se.
    They have weak S but they have Si HA so it is going to be more painful for them since it is valued and they are aware of this, compared to some ENXx who would prefer to look tough.

    Dimensionality of functions is irrelevant when it comes to what we put focus on. No more socionics books for you.

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    I know four INTj's and none are exactly weaklings. One woman is about 6' tall (and looks like a boxer), as is a male analyst I work with. Both are built very solidly. My sister is shorter at 5'7 but goes to the gym daily and is ripped, and the fourth is a guy who is built pretty normally. However, they all do have one thing in common. They all either have health problems, or they fear that they have health problems. They all go to the doctor much more often than other people I know, and some have been pretty sick for long periods of time. The rate of sickness is probably not out of the normal range, but their concern for their health is great enough that I noticed it.

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    I'm not paranoid about being subordinated by others, but I notice and don't like being punked. Most people aren't a threat and when it happens it feels subtle as opposed to 'wow, I'm so powerless' and I can laugh at them just as easily. A lot of buff dudes are pussies. It piles up though and sometimes I get frustrated that I can't just slap someone in the face. I never display real physical dominance and I've never pulled a man up by his shirt and slammed him against a wall. I lift weights and like martial arts too. Is that weak Se?
    Last edited by suedehead; 05-03-2015 at 04:18 PM.

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    I don't know; I thought PoLR was more like a blind-spot - something someone is averse to using and developing, but can to some extent, if they think it's needed. Leaves room for people to be more than a static socionics model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    I don't know; I thought PoLR was more like a blind-spot - something someone is averse to using and developing, but can to some extent, if they think it's needed. Leaves room for people to be more than a static socionics model.
    Heresy!
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    a lot of LIIs i've known have been gym-bunnies and physically huge. something to do with Se polr and -Si HA, something something.

    edit: and whether it's aesthetics, or obsessive regard for their health or anything, IME it seems like LII is the most likely type to care for this sort of crap, followed by SEE and SEI and mayyyybe ESE.

    EIIs otoh are not. like, at all.

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    It is all in your psyche and in your
    eyebrows
    .
    Can one put up the show? For Se PoLR it is very hard.
    I can put very weird one and it is sometimes mildly effective (there is lots of laughter, wtf moments and shame but nonetheless). Hence I'm not Se polr. Still emptying building (school) full of teenage kids for recess takes enormous effort and is not always successful .
    Last edited by Troll Nr 007; 05-04-2015 at 04:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Heresy!
    Burn him he's a witch!
    You're right. I'm so sorry. Please don't burn me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    You're right. I'm so sorry. Please don't burn me.
    Ok...your ideas float so you must not be evil.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ponder View Post
    I guess the point of this thread is to ask: has anyone here ever met an INTj who DIDN'T look like a fragile-boned geeky little kid?
    Yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by ponder View Post
    I guess the point of this thread is to ask: has anyone here ever met an INTj who DIDN'T look like a fragile-boned geeky little kid? Or is that stereotype really accurate for the most part?
    For the most part, your INTj's are gonna be pretty thin/frail.

    I do believe there's a link between socio-type and body type.

    If you look up William Sheldon's works (American psychologist), he looked for links between body types and temperament.

    Body types being Endotonia, Mesotonia, and Ectotonia:


    He found that Ectotonia was associated with privacy, intellectual, and mental stimulation.

    It's then, no surprise that you'll find a lot of INTjs with more dominance towards Ecotonia.

    Here's the questionnaire (Fairly accurate for me)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    a lot of LIIs i've known have been gym-bunnies and physically huge. something to do with Se polr and -Si HA, something something.

    edit: and whether it's aesthetics, or obsessive regard for their health or anything, IME it seems like LII is the most likely type to care for this sort of crap, followed by SEE and SEI and mayyyybe ESE.

    EIIs otoh are not. like, at all.
    aw gym bunnies!!!
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    Most LIIs I know are rather on the fatty or well-built side, at least the men. I've been small and skinny while growing up, and I'm SLE-Se.

    Se isn't about being physically impressive, but is a way to process information mentally. Go figure!

    otherwise I agree with krieger's post. Skinny is a stereotype used about IxIs rather. LIIs are stereotyped nerds. And stereotypes are not reality, at best they reflect a trend.

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    I can't help noticing the contrast between Ti-blocked-with-Se vs Si-blocked-with-Te in the last replies.

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    Poll from the INTJ forums:



    http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=13339

    Coincidentally, from self-typed INTJs, you see a dominance towards the ectomorph/ectotonia.

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    INTJ mbti = ILI, LII, LIE, SLI, LSI etc. in Socionics

    --------------------

    Se is about Information Metabolism, not physical built. Force/space sensing. External statics of objects. A perception of beauty, freshness, color, shape, texture etc. (objective visual qualities) + strength/willpower/mobilization resources in a person.

    Actually Ijs (as a temperament closer to the Hippocratic lymphatic > sanguine) have kinda more chances than Eps to be tall and relatively well-built, albeit slower and less flexible.
    I know many SLEs or SEEs who don't look like Tyson or Stallone. (sorry, is woofl , a Se dom, some sorta King Kong)

    Personally I have Ij temperament and a body type that comes closer to the choleric built in a way. Body type is mostly genetic>Socio-influenced.
    Last edited by Amber; 05-22-2015 at 01:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    INTJ mbti = ILI, LII, LIE, SLI, LSI etc. in Socionics
    MBTI INTJ= Will most likely type LII. ILI at times. (Again, majority of the time)

    In either case, if you are the academic/private/reflective type in MBTI, you will most likely be the academic/private/reflective type in Socionics as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    Se is about Information Metabolism, not physical built. Force/space sensing. External statics of objects. A perception of beauty, freshness, color, shape, texture etc. (objective visual qualities) + strength/willpower/mobilization resources in a person.
    Nobody said it was just about physical built. We’re talking about possible correlations between information metabolism and body structure.

    Where does information metabolism come from? The brain.
    What is body structure influenced by? Hormones/Endocrine system via... The brain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    Actually Ijs (as a temperament closer to the Hippocratic lymphatic > sanguine) have kinda more chances than Eps to be tall and relatively well-built, albeit slower and less flexible.
    Lol. Look at professional sports with tall and muscular people. NBA and NFL for example. Would you wager that there'd be more INTJs over ESTPs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    ...I know many SLEs or SEEs who don't look like Tyson or Stallone. (sorry, is woofl , a Se dom, some sorta King Kong)
    Just because there are exceptions doesn’t mean a relationship/tendency can’t exist. I just posted a poll with real data and exceptions.

    I’m totally aware that there will be variations due to sex (woman tend to carry more fat, less muscle), genetics, environment, etc.
    Last edited by peteronfireee; 05-22-2015 at 02:45 PM.

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    actually the majority of ppl do fall prey to the J/p switch ime (only from what I see on this forum).

    So mbti INTJ = ILI, LII, LIE, SLI etc. (there was reason in my order)

    Not sure what the person above means by "academic" here.

    private = Introversion
    reflective suggests Introversion and/or Intuition (in a generic way)

    However if you go in a certain environment or field of study&work ... everyone has to be reflective one way or another. And even in a prominently intellectual/cerebral > practical/handwork setting, you find people of kinda all types. Not all mechanics are mbti ISTP and not all mbti ISTPs are mechanics, you know.
    Last edited by Amber; 05-22-2015 at 02:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    actually the majority of ppl do fall prey to the J/p switch ime (only from what I see on this forum).

    So mbti INTJ = ILI, LII, LIE, SLI etc. (there was reason in my order)
    That’s not saying much.

    People here seem generally confused about their types.

    You also have people here in this forum claiming to switch from ISTP to EIE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    Not sure what the person above means by "academic" here.
    Bookworm, scientist, nerd.

    Sorry for not being politically correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    private = Introversion
    reflective suggests Introversion and/or Intuition (in a generic way)
    Yeah. INTJs and INTPs are introverted intuitives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    Not all mechanics are mbti ISTP and not all mbti ISTPs are mechanics, you know.
    Lol, no shit.

    “Mechanic,” is just an illustration, but a powerful one at that. ISTPs have a hands on, practical approach to life, that’s all it means. So whether a ISTP is a mechanic, or a marine biologist, they’ll approach them much differently than an INTJ would.

    Hence, "information metabolism."

    ---

    Also, it's funny that people can’t see that there might be a possible correlation with body types, yet subscribe to VI. So much inconsistency.

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    if dude above were Se ego, he would go case-by-case in assessing body type (see VI), not swallow up polls (made by a very limited amount of ppl creeping on some internet forum) and make generalisations based mostly on stereotypes.

    that kinda means seeing when an "object" is tall, short, fat, medium-built etc.
    instead he came with a Je - kinda poll from a site which is TOTALLY UNRELATED to Socionics. I bet he's mbti ISTJ and Socionics ISTp. Maybe he finds an IEE to hit him with a stick and open up his mind.
    Last edited by Amber; 05-22-2015 at 04:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    if dude above were Se ego, he would go case-by-case in assessing body type (see VI), not swallow up polls and make generalisations based mostly on stereotypes.

    that kinda means seeing when an "object" is tall, short, medium-built etc.
    instead he came with a Je - kinda poll from a site which is TOTALLY UNRELATED to Socionics. I bet he's mbti SLI and Socionics ISTp. Maybe he finds an IEE to hit him with a stick and open up his mind.
    Hahahahhahahaha

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