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Thread: anger - type, enneagram, psychology, etc.

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    strangeling's Avatar
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    Default anger - type, enneagram, psychology, etc.

    I don't think I've seen any threads on this and I've been wanting to discuss it in a way. But before anyone says it, I know that everyone feels anger, but we each experience it differently. So that being said, how would you say anger factors into your life and psychology, as well as those you know? Or what role does anger play in your life or others?

    I put this in psychology so it's not limited to a psychological model, but feel free to use them, of course.

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    Haikus Ian Rust's Avatar
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    There's two kinds to look for... (being very general). Those who are openly aggressive and inconsiderate of others. Overbearing people. Engage in arguments, disturb the peace. They can talk too much. Don't seem to care about the rules. Also ramble on about obscure topics as if they're alone in their heads. And then those who try to suppress or completely ignore their anger. They feel lifeless, usually they're superficially happy. Try to be what others want them to be. Follow all the rules others set for them. Very fake people. They are actually the more dangerous kind, the kind that will actually kill you, because at times they just want to explode. Everyone thinks it's the other type that's dangerous, but no... on the inside the overbearing ones are actually too soft.

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    as a currently self-typed nine, i have searched my depths for my "repressed anger" and am yet to find the stockpile. anger isn't an alien emotion to me, so i've also looked at the way in which i actually deal with and process anger - in a rather indirect fashion usually - and considered that this may be the more significant nine-like thing i'm doing: that it's not about deep repression of soul anger or something, but simply a tendency to not know what to do with anger, not know how to use anger, and not know how to channel anger. anger is a "powerful emotion" and one that can make you overturn something that is wrong for you or not working (among other things). i don't tend to use anger for this purpose. instead when anger arises, i tend to vent it and get it out of my system. (i do this in private for the most part.)

    anger aside, i tend to be rather irritable and prone to frustration especially when i don't have the opportunity to withdraw from people. i like to vent these feelings as well, but i can't do it at work, so sometimes by the time i get home i'm fairly fed up with people. and stressed out. and it can take a while to feel like all of the agitation has drained out of me. my psychiatrist told me i should just work my way into a job more fitting for my temperament where i can work alone more frequently. i'm not sure how well irritability and frustration fit the nine picture (am i too in touch with all of my negative feelings?)... by now i probably sound like a deeply angry person.

    if able to withdraw or spend enough time alone, i'm actually not terribly anger-prone. perhaps also in nine-like fashion, if left to myself, i tend to simply avoid things that are just going to make me mad. in this sense, in my ideal of my life, i could actually find a way to use anger by finding something i'm consistently angry about and see if i actually can do something about it... but after a day of human interaction i feel like i just don't want to be in this state anymore. on the whole, i really don't like being angry and pissy. perhaps preferring to not live with anger is the most nine-ish thing of all of this.

    (to clarify, people are not likely to see most of these feelings. but little hints of my irritation and annoyance do emerge, and given enough "exposure" to me, others will notice. i really like to keep these feelings in the closet when i'm at work because it's unprofessional to express such feelings at work. and i do probably try to bury those feelings at work because i have to. maybe that's why i feel more sad during the work day than angry. bottled anger supposedly tends to settle out into depression.)

    anyway, i think i can fit the nine bill. though i'm not unaware of my anger, there is a sort of malfunction in how i deal with it and process it. supposedly many nines had an authoritarian parent who may have been rather angry and severe, and thus the nine learned to fear anger. this is true of me. i also learned that anger is "bad" because i witnessed the damage and devastating effects my father's anger had on our family. when i'm angry i feel like a monster and i don't want to be a monster. so i do have warped attitudes and associations regarding anger.

    elaborating on the malfunction further, i think that my process of dealing with anger gets prematurely cut short. by venting the anger as it emerges, i am not giving myself enough time to process and learn from it. as i'm venting it, the thoughts that create it are running through my head over and over, but once i've got it all out of me, sometimes it's like it was never there. the need to just get rid of it prevents me from taking the time to learn from it.

    however, this gets a little more complex because fear also blocks me from making use of my anger. i doubt that i can initiate any changes in my life, especially socially, and so once a solution presents itself to me, i often believe i can't actually do it... as though it's some incredible feat like moving heaven and earth. that belief that i'm not capable (or even that i might not be capable) generates fear, which seems to halt everything. i also fear creating conflicts and people problems because i usually think i will lose. it will all come down on my head and i lack the grace (interpersonal and communication skills) to repair it. i also have a paranoid fear of being ostracized - or perhaps as being exposed as a deviant or deceiver. unmasked, they will know what i really think and how i really feel and how i only pretend to agree for my own survival, and then i will be cast out of the tribe, burned at the stake, so on. and i won't be able to make it on my own without all the many things society provides (e.g. grocery stores and plumbing - kind of kidding about the plumbing?).

    --

    also, i am angry about things in my life, but maybe not angry enough. i don't fit the nine stereotype of believing that everything is okay, although at work i do try to act as though it is. somewhat.

    still there are the themes: avoiding and diffusing anger (quickly).

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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    At the beginning of this month there was a thread titled "Socionics & Anger".
    This is what I wrote there:
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Jaak Panksepp studies emotional systems in mammals, and has found the pathways for 7 emotional systems. The RAGE system is one of them, aka anger, frustration irritation, etc. This system is activated when a situation doesn't align with our implicit (evolutionary) desires. It comes out most often when there are stressors, like when resources are scarce (competition for resources), restriction of activity/movement, irritation to the surface of the body, thwarted aspirations of the SEEKING system, sudden withdrawal of anticipated rewards, homeostatic imbalances (such as hunger, lack of sleep, etc), perceived maltreatment/neglect, war, and social upheaval.

    This emotional system is too basic for it to be limited to a personality type.
    However, i think one's personality type can shape _some_ of their triggers of the RAGE system. Such as a thwarted HA, role, polr hits, being in situations that force them to suppress their base function, etc. But, despite these possible different triggers, I think one would get further with the more generalized understanding of what the RAGE system is reacting to.


    Edited to add: caps refer to the emotional systems, not to the common usage of the term.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    strangeling's Avatar
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    Wow, thanks for sharing, inumbra. I can relate with frustration of anger in the workplace. I have a government job (military) and for some reason it's improper to be angry when people keep me from doing a good job or treat me poorly. I don't understand how that's healthy. I doubt it is; there's so much pent up frustration where I'm at. There's this one guy that just flips out on people, but he's getting out soon so he doesn't give a shit. It's amazing how many people stop caring when they are close to getting out of the army. It reflects how dysfunctional the workplace is. A lot of people feel trapped and mildly depressed or anger. It's very ... sad.

    There's an LSE here that has some enneagram 6 in him. I think he's 836. But he gets angry and anxious over everything, yet at the same time feels compelled to put up with it and make the Army a career. He's probably a workaholic. All of this combined makes him seem constantly irritated. I wonder if he's going to die of a heart attack.

    but anyway, out of curiosity, what's your job? It definitely sounds shitty.

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    but anyway, out of curiosity, what's your job? It definitely sounds shitty.
    it's a secret. i probably make it sound worse than it is out of a tendency to magnify negative things, among other tendencies.

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    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
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    Self typed 9

    I have sporadic outbursts of anger, they are verbal, very cynical and usually short fused. It drains me and completely destroys the person i turn it towards so i've been reducing the frequency of it happening ever since being a kid. Now it's maybe once a year, and much less explosive than it used to be. Still corosive and cynical though.

    I think anger is a completely natural and usefull thing, but i'm still looking for the best way to express it.

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    Haikus
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    anger is prolly one of my most frequent emotions when I face bad or unwanted situations. That said I don't often experience sadness, confusion, despondency, melancholy, or a feeling of impotence. It is catalytic in a way because it makes me push up the ante and solve the problem. It's an active emotional state. It also dissipates better than something else if stuff happens not to work. After falling ill with ulcer due to nervous tension first and foremost, an ex of mine was advised by a doctor to break a set of cheap plates at least every two weeks so as not to accumulate stress. He had a tendency to keep any kind of dissatisfaction inside and on the low and let it rot instead of allowing himself to go in anger mode. A strange form of passive-aggression at the root probably.

    I don't mean expressing anger in terms of screaming or throwing stuff, but working with it in a controlled way. It's just a motivating drive that I usually have in front of problematic/difficult stuff which doesn't necessarily have a negative influence for me. It helped me solve many problems and conflicts fast. In a way it's also the engine of my reactions against injustice or unjustified claims ...whether they are directed at myself or broader in scope.

    I don't relate it in any way to Enneagram...I think it's genetic and/or a coping mechanism developed since very young. Mby others would read it through some ennea-data, but it just seems artificial to me. Neither 6, nor 5 (which I partly identify with) are supposed to have "anger" among their main "emotions" afaik.
    Last edited by Amber; 04-23-2015 at 05:17 PM.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure I'm E3 not 5 and I'm always angry.

    I have a fairly non-canon way of enneagram interpretation tho.

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    Nymeria's Avatar
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    Anger, resentment feel more like they have clear sharp edges. They don't feel like this uneasy sea of sadness, that pulls you down and where you feel helpless and like you are drowning. I think I used anger to cut myself off from feeling the latter. It's better to feel angry than hurt/sad. In a controlled way you can channel it. It feels like something is blazing inside you (my dads nickname for me: hot coal) and you can sublimate this feeling into action. Anger just doesn’t feel numb, but controlling your anger just takes energy.

    When you're doing this for some time and you just don’t have that energy anymore, I think I slipped into a state where I was just cut off/disconnected from myself or sth. I just felt vacant. Like I didn‘t really have a grasp on any emotional texture in myself anymore. I just felt nothing, which funny enough, doesn’t really felt that bad at first (I don’t care... That doesn’t phase me anymore...). But somehow that wasn’t really me. There is probably a part in me, that wants/needs to care. Now, I think, I would just like to reach my own calm and peace. Letting go of the resentment. I’m done with wrangling with that stuff like in the past. Moving on and letting that old stuff behind.



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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    I'm pretty sure I'm E3 not 5 and I'm always angry.

    I have a fairly non-canon way of enneagram interpretation tho.
    Mmmm I want to maybe take this back, because I'm taking a nutritional supplement and it sort of makes me a soulless machine. Useful, but mmm perhaps not something I want full time.

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    Shay's Avatar
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    I am barely ever truly angry but if I am, others close say they are very aware of it.
    My anger can get others over the line though in things, it causes movement and change, it stands up for people I care about, the rights, the wrongs, the occasional cause.
    Don't pressure/force me or those really close to do something they don't want to though and not accept this about them for that's a good way to start me disliking you and thus potentially developing an anger. Instead just nicely ask. I can't be bothered with games in this area especially when performed by a group of female b******. I wouldn't desire to ever 'make' another do something they didn't want to do and wonder what you gain out of it - a sense of control or power?
    I also dislike abuses of power including those from within defective man made systems and people who use threats of 'don't question my integrity' etc as their way of controlling another and situations. Also stop treating me like I'm the rebel just because I won't take your abuse & shit that you wish to lay upon everyone.
    But mostly I am the opposite of anger on the outside and within, I just need my husband to let off some internal steam to now and then.
    Today I am angry...today I am furious...I won't go too into why but it is over corruption, people laughing behind others backs and one parent (SLE) who has taken copies of a letter my husband wrote in response to a nasty one from them regarding my name change of a year ago and showing everyone possible and another parent who replied via email to me this morning in a lacklustre style over important topics.
    Shit shit shit is what today was...oh hang on, there was some good news....possums have been saved from my house being bulldozed down the street and someone close to me aced their second job interview!
    Last edited by Shay; 04-29-2015 at 10:14 AM.

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