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    Bless Mother Earth BurningIce's Avatar
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    Default Submission

    Hello!

    This video is not implying IEIs are submissive per say, I actually believe that enneagram 8 IEIs will likely be anything but submissive, but for those who are, I thought to leave it here.


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    The sleeping beauty Velvet's Avatar
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    IEI e8 sounds really extraterrestrial to me. Beyond any imagination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    IEI e8 sounds really extraterrestrial to me. Beyond any imagination.
    yeah because it is impossible.

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    idk, subculture chicks just can't be IEI if you ask me, you guys are infantiles.


    edit: by infantiles I mean some combination of Ne and Fi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maithili View Post
    idk, subculture chicks just can't be IEI if you ask me, you guys are infantiles.


    edit: by infantiles I mean some combination of Ne and Fi.
    who spoke of subculture?

    Side Note: Socionics experts ascribe BDSM to the beta quadra, more specifically to the SLE-IEI dual pair. My bf and I are not into BDSM, neither of us is, but knowing how the SLE-IEI dynamic works I can perfectly understand why experts ascribe it to that dual pair specifically.

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    Bless Mother Earth BurningIce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    yeah because it is impossible.
    That you haven't seen it doesn't make it impossible. That you cannot believe it doesn't make it impossible. Infact I met 4 or 5 already. Rare? yes, but they DO exist and they are anything but submissive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningIce View Post
    Infact I met 4 or 5 already.
    i'm sure you have sweetie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    i'm sure you have sweetie
    It sounds like you are doubting I experienced what I experienced, maybe you want to clarify.

    PS. I don't like being called "sweety" or anything else by strangers, if you don't mind, I would appreciate you didn't do that.

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    i found your discussion interesting. i was recently thinking about something kind of similar (though certainly not same thing). although i don't know how to place myself in a dominance/submission spectrum exactly, one thing i've learned about myself is that i'm not a leader. things that can be stressed as highly important in some workplaces for instance, like taking initiative and developing one's leadership qualities with the implication that we are all leaders and should all be striving to be leaders, are simply not me. while i'm here i will try to develop interpersonal qualities as a lack of such skills i've realized isn't going to really help me either, and i'll try to do a good job and what is asked of me as that is what i must do in exchange for pay... but in terms of who i am and what i like, seek, and have the natural inclination and energy for, leadership just isn't it. i find it difficult when i feel "society" is trying to move me counter to who i am, but i'm trying to find a way... or rather i think i have found a way, it's just that it's little more than a light in my mind right now.

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    Bless Mother Earth BurningIce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i found your discussion interesting. i was recently thinking about something kind of similar (though certainly not same thing). although i don't know how to place myself in a dominance/submission spectrum exactly, one thing i've learned about myself is that i'm not a leader. things that can be stressed as highly important in some workplaces for instance, like taking initiative and developing one's leadership qualities with the implication that we are all leaders and should all be striving to be leaders, are simply not me. while i'm here i will try to develop interpersonal qualities as a lack of such skills i've realized isn't going to really help me either, and i'll try to do a good job and what is asked of me as that is what i must do in exchange for pay... but in terms of who i am and what i like, seek, and have the natural inclination and energy for, leadership just isn't it. i find it difficult when i feel "society" is trying to move me counter to who i am, but i'm trying to find a way... or rather i think i have found a way, it's just that it's little more than a light in my mind right now.
    Thanks for sharing

    I think this is a very important step for self awareness I'm happy for you that you found out something about yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningIce View Post
    It sounds like you are doubting I experienced what I experienced, maybe you want to clarify.
    i'm not doubting your experience, i'm doubting your ability to type anyone correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    i'm not doubting your experience, i'm doubting your ability to type anyone correctly.
    I can and I'm actually very good at it.

    And on a side note you lack the basic knowledge to sustain the contrary, you don't know me.

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    yeah and i can still infer how you typed these IEI E8s wrong, funny how that happens!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    yeah and i can still infer how you typed these IEI E8s wrong, funny how that happens!
    That still makes you a liar because you weren't there and you cannot know what I saw.

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    : / so yeah.

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    The sleeping beauty Velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningIce View Post
    That you haven't seen it doesn't make it impossible. That you cannot believe it doesn't make it impossible. Infact I met 4 or 5 already. Rare? yes, but they DO exist and they are anything but submissive.
    Out of curiosity...Knowing most IEIs are e4 or e9, there is more chance to find an IEI e6 or e5 and even e3 before meeting an IEI e8... So I wonder how come you met so many IEIs e8.... this implies you met even more of IEIs of other e-types.
    Anybody follows my logic because I find this really weird... I suspect only one person to be an IEI around me and she might be e9>e4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    Out of curiosity...Knowing most IEIs are e4 or e9, there is more chance to find an IEI e6 or e5 and even e3 before meeting an IEI e8... So I wonder how come you met so many IEIs e8.... this implies you met even more of IEIs of other e-types.
    Anybody follows my logic because I find this really weird... I suspect only one person to be an IEI around me and she might be e9>e4.
    Personally I'd put the likelihood of IEI e8 next to the likelihood of playing volleyball with a dinosaur. Extremely low.
    Imo so-called IEI 8 could be EIE-Ni acting out a lot on Se-HA or an actual IEI (either counter-phobic e6 or a sx 4) - which both can appear somewhat 8-ish at times.

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    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
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    I appreciate hearing your perspective. Personally, this mind frame of submission is somewhat foreign to me. Instead, my personality struggles, for lack of a better term, is more for equality. Equality with whomever, parents when I was younger, friends, partners, teachers, co-workers. Although at times, I acquiesce because I deem it more appropriate to the situation. In regards to the larger scope you discussed about submitting to society, I think it works for some people, like you mentioned, and for others their personal quest involves finding a self carved niche for themselves. I think in most instances, a healthy balance of submitting to the larger society normalities against being oneself is essential for mental and emotional wellbeing. Just look at the people who often fight against what they see as normal, often they are simply damaging themselves in the long run.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

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    oh no, ESE so/sp talks about IEI again

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    @BurningIce

    People are reacting as they do to the notion of IEI 8 because definitionally, that combination makes almost no sense. The characteristics of 8 and those of IEI overlap very little. Personally, I've known a couple of IEI soldiers who superficially might resemble 8s, but it's just that -- a superficial appearance based on the role they've learned to play.

    Where specifically have you seen that "Socionics experts ascribe BDSM to the beta quadra, more specifically to the SLE-IEI dual pair"? I'm not saying that's untrue per se, I'm just wondering what sources you have in mind, and if you could link to them.

    Imo, the acronym BDSM has come to encompass a huge range of stuff, from pure sensation play to full-blown domestic slavery-style situations, and to call it all "Beta" would be incorrect.

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    society guidelines, submissiveness = following rules, social roles ....
    "society tells us that we have to be dominant, we have to be strong " blah-blah. only watched 2 min.


    I wanna explode at so much stupid Fe.

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    i too struggle to reconcile iei and e8, but there is a bit of room possibly in the definition of e8... when i think e8 i often think someone like gene hunt:



    someone who is in your face, loud, in charge, confrontational, blustery, open with anger or rage - a boss, basically. oh, and also someone who is incredibly uncomfortable displaying vulnerability, weakness, or softer feelings. a fighter for their idea of justice, constantly warring against society. everything is a fight. it takes a lot of energy to be that way all the time.

    however, i know this is really stereotypical, and almost super human in some ways. i have more than one favorite fictional 8, and it's generally always due, in part, to their larger-than-life qualities.

    a more introverted, thoughtful 8 is a possibility in my mind... but i'm not sure how it would look as an ni dom. i mean there are quieter 8s, but... i don't want to give a completely wrong impression about my thoughts on this e-type...

    perhaps a tell is that 8s always need to be in charge in one way or another... if not in charge, then exercising control in some other way (more direct than not, usually)... or if unable to find a way to do this, just withdrawing entirely because they weren't able to be king of that particular hill.
    Last edited by inumbra; 04-07-2015 at 06:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    Out of curiosity...Knowing most IEIs are e4 or e9, there is more chance to find an IEI e6 or e5 and even e3 before meeting an IEI e8... So I wonder how come you met so many IEIs e8.... this implies you met even more of IEIs of other e-types.
    Anybody follows my logic because I find this really weird... I suspect only one person to be an IEI around me and she might be e9>e4.
    you are misinterpreting my words and you don't know how many IEIs I know. Infact I know quite a bunch and the E8s I met were the absolute minority, they contact me via my page and youtube.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    @BurningIce

    People are reacting as they do to the notion of IEI 8 because definitionally, that combination makes almost no sense. The characteristics of 8 and those of IEI overlap very little. Personally, I've known a couple of IEI soldiers who superficially might resemble 8s, but it's just that -- a superficial appearance based on the role they've learned to play.

    Where specifically have you seen that "Socionics experts ascribe BDSM to the beta quadra, more specifically to the SLE-IEI dual pair"? I'm not saying that's untrue per se, I'm just wondering what sources you have in mind, and if you could link to them.

    Imo, the acronym BDSM has come to encompass a huge range of stuff, from pure sensation play to full-blown domestic slavery-style situations, and to call it all "Beta" would be incorrect.
    Wikisocion.

    But I agree that ascribing BDSM to any quadra is pointless, as it is to ascribe "harmony" to a function.

    As to IEI8 in my experience every type can be every enneagram, some are more likely some are less likely, but this doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I fully understand that it's more comfortable to stick to clusters, but the human mind doesn't always belong in such clusters. I believe a person can only be one type and every person falls in one of the stereotypes, but enneagram and socionics are not related and shouldn't be. An IEI can easily be afraid to be harmed and controlled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    I appreciate hearing your perspective. Personally, this mind frame of submission is somewhat foreign to me. Instead, my personality struggles, for lack of a better term, is more for equality. Equality with whomever, parents when I was younger, friends, partners, teachers, co-workers. Although at times, I acquiesce because I deem it more appropriate to the situation. In regards to the larger scope you discussed about submitting to society, I think it works for some people, like you mentioned, and for others their personal quest involves finding a self carved niche for themselves. I think in most instances, a healthy balance of submitting to the larger society normalities against being oneself is essential for mental and emotional wellbeing. Just look at the people who often fight against what they see as normal, often they are simply damaging themselves in the long run.
    Thanks for your experience , appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aisa View Post
    Personally I'd put the likelihood of IEI e8 next to the likelihood of playing volleyball with a dinosaur. Extremely low.
    Imo so-called IEI 8 could be EIE-Ni acting out a lot on Se-HA or an actual IEI (either counter-phobic e6 or a sx 4) - which both can appear somewhat 8-ish at times.
    I respect your opinion, but I guarantee those I met were IEI 8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningIce View Post
    I respect your opinion, but I guarantee those I met were IEI 8.
    Well then we'll have to agree to disagree. That they might have seemed like e8 is the extent to which my belief can stretch. No ill will here, I just think we perceive some things in a different manner and probably won't be able to reach agreement on this.

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    The sleeping beauty Velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningIce View Post
    you are misinterpreting my words and you don't know how many IEIs I know. Infact I know quite a bunch and the E8s I met were the absolute minority, they contact me via my page and youtube.
    Oh come on, chill...Where am I misinterpreting your words? Where did I say or imply I knew how many IEIs you met? I've just asked a question, I repeat, out of curiosity.
    All I do know is that IEIs are not that common around me... and let's suppose IEIs e8 do exist, they would be less common than IEIs of other etypes.
    So I was wondering how come you got to know quite a big proportion of those IEIs e8 between other IEIs when I have almost zero around me, and no need to dive into etypes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aisa View Post
    Well then we'll have to agree to disagree. That they might have seemed like e8 is the extent to which my belief can stretch. No ill will here, I just think we perceive some things in a different manner and probably won't be able to reach agreement on this.
    The difference is experience, each of us has their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    Oh come on, chill...Where am I misinterpreting your words? Where did I say or imply I knew how many IEIs you met? I've just asked a question, I repeat, out of curiosity.
    All I do know is that IEIs are not that common around me... and let's suppose IEIs e8 do exist, they would be less common than IEIs of other etypes.
    So I was wondering how come you got to know quite a big proportion of those IEIs e8 between other IEIs when I have almost zero around me, and no need to dive into etypes...
    the moment you get heated you can rest assured you are misinterpreting my words. o.O

    anyway, again, I met around 50 IEIs in my life and 4 or 5 of those were enneagram 8. I can guarantee you that I have met quite a lot of people and not just those 50.

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    where the fuck did this chick meet 50 IEI s ?! I only know 2 or 3 irl and not closely.

    i thought Alpha SFs and Delta STs are the most common types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    where the fuck did this chick meet 50 IEI s ?! I only know 2 or 3 irl and not closely.

    i thought Alpha SFs and Delta STs are the most common types.
    maybe I met a lot of people if you know so few and I know so many, what do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningIce View Post
    the moment you get heated you can rest assured you are misinterpreting my words. o.O

    anyway, again, I met around 50 IEIs in my life and 4 or 5 of those were enneagram 8. I can guarantee you that I have met quite a lot of people and not just those 50.
    But I am not heated.. I am just curious and apparently I am not the only one questioning this.... I mean I can have hunches in typing but I would not be so over confident about 50 random people I don't know close enough IRL. Just saying.

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    So her bizarre way of dressing herself is actually a submission to social expectations? Makes sense ... never realized

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    I wonder if any of you ever asked themselves why you need to destroy others this way. I'm not the problem here, the problem is your own issues with yourselves.

    I'm here because some people want me here, and I will stay, because I value those people and I respect anybody. But it's in the least curious how strongly so many of you feel the need to destroy me.

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    I wonder if any of you ever asked themselves why you need to destroy others this way.

    so non-Beta. Where's the Se valuing in her constant complaints that ppl are up to get her? Nah the video on Te-polr was literally saying she's defenseless and should not be asked to argue anything coz it hurts. Too crude forms of emotional manipulation and guilt-tripping for Se/Ni Quadra. Never heard IEIs talk real or imaginary weakness as she does. Even making a video on Submission is disgusting. But mby she's actually throwing a gauntlet and being challenging and stuff and ppl are not astute enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    But mby she's actually throwing a gauntlet and being challenging and stuff and ppl are not astute enough.
    ieis are supposed to be constantly throwing gauntlets in threads? i did expect people to start attacking her at some point though, to attempt to expel her from beta. people should probably dump me into a quadra too, based on seeing it that way.

    which is what i mean... this place can be so socially clique-ish/in-crowd-ish/elite-ish. it's like i'm in the plot of lord of the flies or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningIce View Post
    I wonder if any of you ever asked themselves why you need to destroy others this way. I'm not the problem here, the problem is your own issues with yourselves.

    I'm here because some people want me here, and I will stay, because I value those people and I respect anybody. But it's in the least curious how strongly so many of you feel the need to destroy me.
    Just to be clear, I'm not destroying you, I don't give a shit about you. She has a barcode on her forehead, it's bizarre and now I sort of understand why she does it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    ieis are supposed to be constantly throwing gauntlets in threads? i did expect people to start attacking her at some point though, to attempt to expel her from beta. people should probably dump me into a quadra too, based on seeing it that way.

    which is what i mean... this place can be so socially clique-ish/in-crowd-ish/elite-ish. it's like i'm in the plot of lord of the flies or something.
    She totally rejects the idea that she could be some other type. She's dead-stuck on IEI, although she has very few traits in common with this type. I don't advocate complete identity between Sociotypes and ppl in flesh-and-blood .. I'm only afraid she kind of endlessly displays overly-Rational temperament behavior.

    you're probably a Dynamic Fe-valuing type ...not forcing you into a Quadra, but well ...since you asked .

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