SEE and ESE quasi-identical interaction (ESFj and ESFp)

[Beautiful sky]

ANI is SEE
VIC is ESE


Ani

My Communication professor just said "Diaspora can also be a forcible migration, for example the Armenian Diaspora was forced out due to Genocide."*This was the first time I have ever heard a professor bring up this topic.


Vic

The Armenian Genocide won't be a topic until it is acknowledged by the government.·*More*·*3 hours ago

Ani

It is a topic, and it was brought up in class...as a topic...·*More*·*3 hours ago

Vic
The Armenian Genocide won't be a topic until it is acknowledged by the government.·*More*·*3 hours ago

Ani

It is a topic, and it was brought up in class...as a topic...·*More*·*3 hours ago

Vic

Yes, but not all classes....unfortunately·*More*·*3 hours ago

Ani

Yes I know that, but I don't understand what you're trying to say or prove·*More*·*3 hours ago

Vic

Does everything have to be about proving things??? I'm just voicing out that it SHOULD be acknowledged.·*More*·*3 hours ago

Ani

Well, calm down, I'm not insulting you or anything. I'm asking, because you said "The Armenian Genocide won't be a topic until it is acknowledged by the government." You did not say it should be acknowledged or anything. It was a random statement. I asked for clarification. Please, relax.·*More*·*3 hours ago

Vic

Ani, I'm calm honey. I just joined in the covo. My bad·*More*·*3 hours ago

Ani

I'm not pinning you against the wall for joining, I'm just questioning what your comment was because it seemed out of place with a negative tone. If you join a convo with a single random statement, then elaborate on it... We know its not yet recognized, but I just don't understand why you don't believe it's a 'topic' or what you even mean by that sentence? Maybe I should have asked what you define as a topic instead of saying it is a topic...·*More*·*3 hours ago

Vicn

What I meant by "topic" is it won't be a part of the curriculum unless the United States acknowledges it. It's totally fine and should be discussed as we are approaching the 100th year mark. But come May, unfortunately, it will be forgotten by most. It weighs no precedence at schools, colleges, universities as does the Jewish Holocaust.·*More*·*2 hours ago

Ani

Students receive education outside of the classroom (in a university setting), and programming, foundations, and just regular talk keeps the topic alive. Secondly, this comment by my professor had nothing to do with the centeniel. It was brought up as an example to discuss in class, just like how she also brought up the Jewish Holocaust and African genocides. African genocides and the massacres of Native Americans aren't always discussed either, but the knowledge is there. Also, because none of us know how to predict the future, nor can we generalize everyone's actions in a situation like this, we don't know what will happen after May.·*More*·*2 hours ago

Vic

Ok we're done. I don't understand why you think I'm arguing against you. Obviously i triggered a fuse. Sorry.·*More*·*2 hours ago

Ani

You're being childish, I'm just talking. You started with a random ocmment, if you can't handle discussions, don't get involved in them

[Avalonia]

...and this is exactly why I can never have any pleasant conversation whatsoever with an SEE.

[Beautiful sky]

...and this is exactly why I can never have any pleasant conversation whatsoever with an SEE.

I know. I'm sorry

[Beautiful sky]

This is a good example of the kind of misunderstanding that takes place in quasi-identical relationships. First off they are both feeling types so their ethical outlook are different. Where one focuses on the relationship with their professor and classmate (Ani) the other on the global issue and implications at hand (Vic).

http://www.socionics.com/rel/qid.htm

[Beautiful sky]

I want everyone else to make another note here. If you're talking to someone on the forum and having smooth interactions and you're typing your selves as quasi then one of you is typed wrong. Socionics is not rocket science and no your interaction isn't smooth because one or both of you are more "mature" that being said stop bullshitting your selves. I see so many mistyped and wanna be types here It's sickening

[aixelsyd]

I'm SEE. I get on fine with [most] ESEs. People can have misunderstandings over anything. Also, I could care less for socionics dogma. I'm also a proud picker and chooser of what tenets I follow and what tenets I do not.

And maturity is highly relevant to how well interactions go. I've seen, irl, intraquadra relations go south because of lack of maturity in one or both parties. Common sense overrides theoretical points. The assertions that such and such relations cannot have even interactions is a groundless one and a knee jerk reaction, at best.

Those are my real feelings on the matter.

[shadowbox]

I can see what both of them are getting at and where things went wrong (a logical misunderstanding became an emotional misunderstanding). The ESE's comment is true to a certain extent (the lack of official recognition of the Armenian genocide is astounding and it stifles debate of the issue) although ultimately I think the best remedy for this is to make it a topic by discussing it as much as possible rather than waiting for someone to make some sort of official announcement about it. Obviously, the reason the US is so worried about calling Turkey out on it is that Turkey's a strategic ally in the region. If US and/or Western Europe were to lose Turkey as an ally they would lose access to the Black Sea and a ton of oil as a result. It's shitty, but its the state of modern geopolitics.

As for the quasi relations I guess it's also just an alpha/gamma split with regard to the central focus of the conversation. Although it seems like both of them do care about the issue in their own way. I find it similar to my interactions with INTJ's, we're sort of "divided by a common language" as the saying goes.

[Beautiful sky]

I can see what both of them are getting at and where things went wrong (a logical misunderstanding became an emotional misunderstanding). The ESE's comment is true to a certain extent (the lack of official recognition of the Armenian genocide is astounding and it stifles debate of the issue) although ultimately I think the best remedy for this is to make it a topic by discussing it as much as possible rather than waiting for someone to make some sort of official announcement about it. Obviously, the reason the US is so worried about calling Turkey out on it is that Turkey's a strategic ally in the region. If US and/or Western Europe were to lose Turkey as an ally they would lose access to the Black Sea and a ton of oil as a result. It's shitty, but its the state of modern geopolitics.

As for the quasi relations I guess it's also just an alpha/gamma split with regard to the central focus of the conversation. Although it seems like both of them do care about the issue in their own way. I find it similar to my interactions with INTJ's, we're sort of "divided by a common language" as the saying goes.

With alpha everything said is official or has to be valid only by official said. Whatever.

[Beautiful sky]

I agree with the SEE, but I also see where the ESE is coming from.

I would never use Socionics as an excuse to not being able to understand someone else's POV. I don't even care if they are my supposed conflictor.
I think one of the biggest problems in the world is in not trying to understand another's POV. I'd rather try to 'understand my enemies' than just except the fact that we are different, and that misunderstanding is inevitable. In doing so, personal growth can be restricted, and one can develop a narrow minded view of the world.

This isn't about stopping to understand the other person's pov this is about information processing. When you are conveying your pov the other person is conveying theiir point and they are diametrically opposed so it's going to create a misunderstanding whether you want it or not. That is what quasi relations are like. You aren't going to stop on purpose because you are conveying your own info in your own functional expression. Stop acting like the above it all hero.

[Beautiful sky]

I agree with the SEE, but I also see where the ESE is coming from.

I would never use Socionics as an excuse to not being able to understand someone else's POV. I don't even care if they are my supposed conflictor.
I think one of the biggest problems in the world is in not trying to understand another's POV. I'd rather try to 'understand my enemies' than just except the fact that we are different, and that misunderstanding is inevitable. In doing so, personal growth can be restricted, and one can develop a narrow minded view of the world.

Second of all Aylene and I are clearly quasi because our interactions split due to misunderstanding...whicb is what happens with quasi relations. ..now, how the eff are you talking so jolly ass with her and still an EII? Get a life. @Suz...I type Ann SEE and it seems like your intentions is quasj if I'm not wrong which would make you ESE...what do you think?

[Beautiful sky]

I think maturity can be linked to understanding another's POV. I believe the root of misunderstanding is lack of maturity and an inability or unwillingness to step back and evaluate a situation without succumbing to ones emotional whims. So, yes, I do think it is related, and I was elaborating and building on the topic. Information can be processed, but it takes willingness to step back and evaluate in the midst of it all, without letting something progress into taking sides and an inability to reach common ground.

Sureeeeeeeee.

[Beautiful sky]

I've noticed you getting along well with other IEI's. I've read several threads on this site. You seem to have recently developed a conflict with Aylen. Wikisocion's description of quad identical is more favorable, but I believe you used that description from socionics.com because it better matched your agenda.

Like who

[Suz]

Second of all Aylene and I are clearly quasi because our interactions split due to misunderstanding...whicb is what happens with quasi relations. ..now, how the eff are you talking so jolly ass with her and still an EII? Get a life. @Suz...I type Ann SEE and it seems like your intentions is quasj if I'm not wrong which would make you ESE...what do you think?

Maritsa, to answer your question, I get along well with anndelise and am quite fond of her as a person... I do find it very difficult if not impossible to follow her explanations though, which makes me sad since she has a lot of thoughts about socionics, but I was thinking that might be more reflective of a Ti-POLR approach at odds with a Ti-seeking expectation (whether DS or HA). Thanks for asking to clarify though, Maritsa, instead of jumping to conclusion...

[Suz]

That's interesting, Suz. I find Ann's explanations the easiest for me to understand. I believe Ann to be IEE, though.

That is really interesting!

and I dont have any issues with Ann's current self-typing of IEE either. It seems to me that she is Si-valuing.

[Beautiful sky]

If you want me to go through threads and gather evidence to post here, I will when I get time, in the next few days. But I don't like doing that to people because it seems immoral. You seem to start conflicts with people of all types, at one point or another. Anyway, I'm not going to fight with you and stoop to that level.


Luke 6:27-31 - Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

I thought so.

[Beautiful sky]

Ok

My example is still golden @GOLDEN

[Beautiful sky]

Originally Posted by Starfall
You're Beta. Embrace it.
No, I'm not...I'm EII and always have been and always will be...sorry. But, I think you're wonderful.



Originally Posted by Starfall
Why?
I get along great with you, Redbaron, Allie, Rubicon, Vero...and all the girls except a few that I've had little bumps with, but nothing that can't be worked out.


http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...0794-Maritsa33

I hardly talk to sf. She is a Facebook friend because she's not crazy but we never get into any discussions. Our values are diamentrically opposed and all that jazz so we dont guide each other or support one another. I have placid relations like that with other IEI they are just there but as far as sharing anything not happening. you also were not there when those rrelations started and took turns so how can you estimate yheir development

[blackburry]

I kind of agreed with the ESE's statements.

Mostly because i've never heard of Armeanian genocide! Why wasn't it taught in my world history class?!

[Aylen]

I think maturity can be linked to understanding another's POV. I believe the root of misunderstanding is lack of maturity and an inability or unwillingness to step back and evaluate a situation without succumbing to ones emotional whims. So, yes, I do think it is related, and I was elaborating and building on the topic. Information can be processed, but it takes willingness to step back and evaluate in the midst of it all, without letting something progress into taking sides and an inability to reach common ground.

I am just trying to remember when we had a "jolly ass" conversation?

Anyway my sister is a correctly typed EII and with age we have grown to accept and respect each others perspectives. We still may have conflict over certain things that are family related and how to do what is best for the family but those are life problems that any types could face. Especially during a crisis.I have had conflict with my ESE sister and IEI brother as well and don't get me started on my LSI mom. We're just a regular functional, dysfunctional, family who love each other very much.

I am curious to know if there is anyone Maritsa types EII on this forum, other than herself, of course. I don't recall seeing her type anyone EII since I have been here (a little over a year). Maybe she did and I missed it.

RE: Armenia

I am 1/4 Armenian on my father's side so I grew up hearing about all this before even though my bio-dad was born in Greece. One of his parents was born in Armenia and the other full Greek. I forget which one is which. I grew up hearing how horrible Turkish people were. I never understood how my parents could dislike a whole country so much. I think my mom has finally gotten over her hatred but have no clue what my bio-dad feels. Greece has had it's own issues with Turkey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide

[darya]

I 've IEE AND EII friends who I get along with great without misunderstandings, at least not any bigger than with any other random friend. Hilarious thread, keep it going

[The Exception]

Oddly enough I can relate to the SEE in the OP.

I hear a new topic I wasn't previously familiar with and I'm curious and naturally I want to explore it, not have someone try to shut me out of discussing it because the American government doesn't officially recognize it as such.

Are you sure this is an SEE/ESE convo?

[Aylen]

Oddly enough I can relate to the SEE in the OP.

I hear a new topic I wasn't previously familiar with and I'm curious and naturally I want to explore it, not have someone try to shut me out of discussing it because the American government doesn't officially recognize it as such.

Are you sure this is an SEE/ESE convo?

To me, Vic comes off as more rational/logical or at the very least calm. Ani seems to be projecting her own emotional state onto him. I am not clear on whether or not this is a personal issue for her since I scanned it. There is no context to determine either of their types here though. The only thing to go on is her typing of them both.

Edit: Ani took an insignificant comment and let it become the focus. She is probably emotionally invested so it distracted her from the issue she was trying to discuss. That's how I see it. I let insignificant things take me off topic too sometimes.

[Esaman]

Would have to side with the proclaimed SEE here.

[Contra]

Yeah, I agreed with the SEE, more or less, but I see what went wrong in the conversation...

[Aylen]

I agree with the SEE, but I also see where the ESE is coming from.

I would never use Socionics as an excuse to not being able to understand someone else's POV. I don't even care if they are my supposed conflictor.
I think one of the biggest problems in the world is in not trying to understand another's POV. I'd rather try to 'understand my enemies' than just except the fact that we are different, and that misunderstanding is inevitable. In doing so, personal growth can be restricted, and one can develop a narrow minded view of the world.

I truly see nothing in what was posted as being "taking sides" worthy. They seem to be, primarily, arguing over whether or not the subject was an actual "topic". If he was just trolling then it was kind of rude. His comment could have been dismissed and she could have continued to make her point. I did not learn anything new about Armenian genocide from what is posted here since the quoted portion ends abruptly. It could have been trolling or just an internet misunderstanding which I have had with many types and most we easily resolved. They don't usually lead to me writing the person off, as an impossible interaction, because one of us misunderstood, on the internet.

What is clear is that there was an agenda in posting this thread, which comes out a few posts later. The agenda being making a case for Quasi-Identicals not getting along and accusing another of not being EII (but that may have come as a bonus). This conversation does not show that, imo, as there is nothing that indicates their types here. They could be duals for all I know. I didn't see anything that indicates that she knows both people involved. I am just assuming she knows at least one because she posted it. There are better examples that could have been used right here on this forum, which would serve to support either perspective, in relation to intertype interactions. Using me to question your type seems shady to me. I see no problem with either of you typing EII. So in this case the "topic" or "non topic" (however one wants to see it) is a red herring from the beginning. She seems to want to make her case for her views toward certain forum members.

I see so many mistyped and wanna be types here It's sickening

If people mistyping themselves is sickening to someone then maybe it's time to look at what it is that bothers you to the point of feeling sick. That can't be healthy when on a forum where people change their types constantly.

If I am missing anything in the original post that points to Quasi-Identical relations, over any other, feel free to point it out. Not you bluebird, just anyone reading this.