Thoughts on this are welcome. I'm not sure how to interpret it yet.
INTjs cannot stant it, I know that. But what about the ESFjs?
Do ESFjs like being told what to do?
Thoughts on this are welcome. I'm not sure how to interpret it yet.
INTjs cannot stant it, I know that. But what about the ESFjs?
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I don't think they mind being told what to do, but neither will they always accept to do it (even though they'll tend not to openly refuse anything). But I do think that they love giving orders and assignements to people, sometimes not so much because of the things that need to be done but to kind of keep a certain amount of psychological (emotional?) distance from others. Anyway, ExFJs are the boring ones who tell people what to do (instead of minding their own bussiness), at least in this life I 'm living.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
they do. unless you rationalize it.
Really?they do. unless you rationalize it.
Oh...
..........because it makes them think too much - is that why?
(as in, they dislike thinking deeply about things)
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
no, because if there is a good reason for something to be done they will eventually do it though they find it distasteful
OH --- I misinterpreted your response. I thought you meant:
As in, "ESFjs don't mind being told what to do, unless you rationalize it -- then they won't want to do it"they do. unless you rationalize it.
but really you meant:
"ESFjs DO MIND (as in, do not like to be told what to do)... unless you provide a good reason for it."they do. unless you rationalize it.
Okay, that makes sense.
I had an intuitional disclarity there.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
ESFjs don't mind being told what to do if you don't offend them in the process
yes. i wasn't sure if you were doing that or saying they were so block-headed that you could confuse them and sway their opinions easily with witty verbal pearls so i refrained and restated
actually i will change my answer. they do not mind following orders if they are shown respect. "being told what to do" implies having a lack of a "say". generally, they do not like this.
ah, yes
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
From my experience of dealing with ESFjs, it is best as an INTj to give them a direction (strategic vision and all that jazz) that they agree with and let them handle most things from there. ESFjs will take tasks to heart and make sure that things get done (especially the mundane details of a task that INTjs hate) and will delegate responsibilities to others. The INTj will of course help them in this endeavor (however grudgingly), but will also help in the establishment of goals and strategies, evaulation of ideas, and the decision making and planning process. The INTj would come up with new ideas, improvements, or developments, while the ESFj would then traditionalize or standardize these ideas, or give these new ideas a familiar sort of feeling or look to them. Again from my experiences, an INTj and ESFj at the head of a project, task or organization is an incredibly formidable team. One acts as an "energizer" and one as the "strategist," the "amperage" and the "voltage," or the "drive" and the "direction." When the ESFj agreed with me or I with her, it practically meant that it was going to happen and that the others of the group would just have to accept it.
But to simply say that ESFjs like being told what to do is incredibly misleading and simply untrue. ESFjs like to be a part of the decision making process, and I prefer them there as well, because if they are a part of the process, it is that much more likely to get done. I think that perhaps it is better to say that ESFjs like to be given or find a sense of direction and purpose.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Ah, very nice thread, everyone.
Just what I was hoping for.
Good insight there, Logos. I have seen glimpses of that, but I like how you explained it there.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
They tell people what to do, usually they're right but it's annoying because they take away a sort of free-thinking from others to make their own mistakes. They're very good at doing the right thing. They'll accept your order if it makes sense and depends on the situation.
INFP
ESFjs generally respect "authority", though they may have a problem with individuals in authority. They'll do what they think is right, even it goes against that individual. They're not the type that resent being told what to do within society's systems of authority. They are ruled by their own "supposed to's", and these "supposed to's" are things that have been taught to them at some point.
Those "supposed tos" may go against the grain of the culture in which they reside and can lead them to be quite counter cultural. For example when esfjs immigrate to another country they tend to keep their cultural traditions alive even if this sets them apart from other people. Another example could be being the best friend of someone who is unpopular and not giving a damn what other people think about it (once they have decided that this is what they will do).
hmm, I'm going to use that going into another thread of mine...
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
As an ESFJ I like to know what is expected of me - I like to be told what people would like me to do for them. When everything is crystal clear it makes my longings of making people around me happier much easier.
However, as someone said I don't "always" agree to do whatever someone asks me to do. I do have my standards and I place them as key priority over making people happy - though I may be miserable doing my priorities (and may re-evaluate) if it makes someone I love unhappy.
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