Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 61

Thread: Ok You Know Socionics, Now How Do You Make Your Personal Life Amazing With It?

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    67
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Ok You Know Socionics, Now How Do You Make Your Personal Life Amazing With It?

    Is there an article on self help on bringing out your true self and improving yourself and aligning yourself with your type more? I grew up in a conflicting quadra home, where my polr was almost constantly berated and my HA ignored. This caused some warping in my type and lead to some psychological stresses even after removing myself from that environment. Made me all guarded, antisocial, and confused about the worth of my existence.

    So yeah is there an article on opening yourself up, pushing away percieved insecurities with your PoLR and letting your HA be freer without feeling awkward and weird and like nobody will like you? Duals are in short supply for me at the moment, So it would be a solo journey, perhaps one that will start attracting duals in even more so in an exponential growth kinda way.

  2. #2
    Limitless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    108
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedMarquee View Post
    Is there an article on self help on bringing out your true self and improving yourself and aligning yourself with your type more? I grew up in a conflicting quadra home, where my polr was almost constantly berated and my HA ignored. This caused some warping in my type and lead to some psychological stresses even after removing myself from that environment. Made me all guarded, antisocial, and confused about the worth of my existence.

    So yeah is there an article on opening yourself up, pushing away percieved insecurities with your PoLR and letting your HA be freer without feeling awkward and weird and like nobody will like you? Duals are in short supply for me at the moment, So it would be a solo journey, perhaps one that will start attracting duals in even more so in an exponential growth kinda way.
    Unfortunately, I can't really help, but I'd love some sort of reply on this.

  3. #3
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    think of each of the types as a state you can get into by imitating it. then learn to be that way over longer periods of time by "faking it till you make it". this will both instruct you on means of behavior you can employ to get desired results AND teach you the hard, unbreacheable limits to your character. in the end you are certain type and there is a varying extent to which copying other types does and doesn't come naturally, but that doesn't mean you can't use each of the states as behavioral tools to get what you want when you want it.

    this trick works best in combination with alcohol or other substances that weaken the rigidity of your sense of identity.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    224
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by krieger View Post
    think of each of the types as a state you can get into by imitating it. then learn to be that way over longer periods of time by "faking it till you make it". this will both instruct you on means of behavior you can employ to get desired results AND teach you the hard, unbreacheable limits to your character. in the end you are certain type and there is a varying extent to which copying other types does and doesn't come naturally, but that doesn't mean you can't use each of the states as behavioral tools to get what you want when you want it.

    this trick works best in combination with alcohol or other substances that weaken the rigidity of your sense of identity.
    wait -- isn't the whole theory about information processing i.e. you can't fake being a type -- you are always your type just expressing different aspects of it

  5. #5
    Olly From Wally World's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Wally World
    Posts
    822
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Unlearn it.

  6. #6
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,893
    Mentioned
    732 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Olly From Wally World View Post
    Unlearn it.



    I was going to say, "now forget everything and go live your life"



    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  7. #7
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,893
    Mentioned
    732 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by krieger View Post
    this trick works best in combination with alcohol or other substances that weaken the rigidity of your sense of identity.


    @Limitless just say no, to substances.

    Edit: I know, I know, I deserve one of these:


    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  8. #8
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by krieger View Post
    think of each of the types as a state you can get into by imitating it. then learn to be that way over longer periods of time by "faking it till you make it". this will both instruct you on means of behavior you can employ to get desired results AND teach you the hard, unbreacheable limits to your character. in the end you are certain type and there is a varying extent to which copying other types does and doesn't come naturally, but that doesn't mean you can't use each of the states as behavioral tools to get what you want when you want it.

    this trick works best in combination with alcohol or other substances that weaken the rigidity of your sense of identity.
    I don't think perceptual types can do this well as they perceive thinga situationally. To make a protocall and program like you suggests is only available to conceptual types

  9. #9
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    OP the best way to self improve is to be around many many duals because chances might be that some won't be nice or normal but you will start to feel yourself more and the more you begin to see the parts of you that are wanted admired and appreciated the better understanding you obtain about who you are and what that base function wants to contribute. All other functions fort of take on a lessor role and you begin to feel yourself, calm, and normal....calm in my case

  10. #10
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,893
    Mentioned
    732 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedMarquee View Post
    Is there an article on self help on bringing out your true self and improving yourself and aligning yourself with your type more? I grew up in a conflicting quadra home, where my polr was almost constantly berated and my HA ignored. This caused some warping in my type and lead to some psychological stresses even after removing myself from that environment. Made me all guarded, antisocial, and confused about the worth of my existence.

    So yeah is there an article on opening yourself up, pushing away percieved insecurities with your PoLR and letting your HA be freer without feeling awkward and weird and like nobody will like you? Duals are in short supply for me at the moment, So it would be a solo journey, perhaps one that will start attracting duals in even more so in an exponential growth kinda way.
    “I know I make too many assumptions. I know I need to stop thinking the worst every time I don't understand something. I'm really, truly sorry....”

    I don't know of such an article in socionics. It basically shows you your strengths and weakness and can point to the strengths and weaknesses in others. That is if you type yourself and others "correctly" and there's the rub. Theoretically it should have some guidelines on how to move past communication problems instead of locking people into intertype relationships. I think that is the biggest problem I have with it.

    BUT, I find it useful in understanding my functions. How I can exercise and enhance my strong points and not let my weaknesses define who I am. I actually like reading about my weaker functions because it makes me realize that I have always been using them in creative ways, to compensate for my perceived flaws, but not to their full potential. Maybe I am saying the same thing, different words, as @krieger.

    I find life flows smoother when I am being true to myself and doing me naturally. That way I draw the people into my life that help me reach higher levels of understanding. They might not be duals but they are just as important on my path of self knowledge. I do not always draw the "best" people to myself but they are perfect for where I am at emotionally and spiritually at any given point in time. I can look at my life as a whole and see all the patterns light up like stars in the sky with intersecting lines. It all makes sense to me but to others may look like my life has been nothing but pure chaos. I am pretty content with where I am now. I do not plan on letting socioncs guide or limit my future actions and interactions. It is just another piece in a complex puzzle called life.

    Don't be afraid of making "mistakes" use them as learning experiences. I repeat my mistakes quite often. Sometimes because they are just fun and other times because I block my intuition and try to change things I cannot change in other people. I keep falling but I get back up again. It is when I am blocking my "knowing" of an outcome that I have had the greatest epiphanies blow my mind. It is like a pressure release and I can finally stop fighting the current and let it guide me. If all else fails, I go to therapy. I am my own ecosystem and the environment is like a projection of my inner world.

    As Bashar would say, "Follow your bliss."

    *end zen moment*

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  11. #11
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

  12. #12
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southwest USA
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    6,724
    Mentioned
    237 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Socionics has helped me to understand people, which I needed help with.

    Regarding opposite-quadra childhoods, my family is half Delta and 1/3 Alpha, with one Beta. I typed them when the Beta was 9, so he's known his socionical position for seven years. I don't know whether that's done any good, besides enabling him to brag that Betas are better than Deltas.

    ESTj
    1w2 sp/so 1-2-6
    Brilliand's Younger Sister
    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  13. #13
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    7,966
    Mentioned
    568 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Understanding people is one thing but changing who you are and dealing with psychological issues is another thing. Personality type and understanding of information metabolism does let you sort of see the range of things you might appreciate and have a easy time grasping, but the hard things which we are naturally more resistant against remaining important areas of development.

    In a way making your personal life "great" is really hard to define, is being guarded and antisocial really that bad for some people, is being confused about one's self worth really abnormal. And at what point does it become really debilitating.

    Different individuals can apply this topic in different ways, just as there are many types there will be many approaches to applying this understanding.

    As far as your upbringing, it's quite common for individuals to grow in a environment that may be against their information preference, along with other issues such as cultural identity, sexuality and worldview disagreement. This does create a sense of alienation and confusion in individuals and there are many therapeutic options for this outside of socionics and in a way those therapy options may be more effective as those options can be task focused and more practical.

    Socionics does give you some capabilities in understanding others, and even predicting whether the interaction will be good or poor, but it's more weather prediction vs detailed determinism.

  14. #14
    Whoobie77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Appalachia/Midwest Borderlands
    TIM
    ILI Counterphobic 6
    Posts
    404
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    If you try and navigate social situations with systems theory, you're just gonna come off as autistic.

    Just go out and talk to people.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Theoretically it should have some guidelines on how to move past communication problems instead of locking people into intertype relationships. I think that is the biggest problem I have with it.
    VS

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I find life flows smoother when I am being true to myself and doing me naturally. That way I draw the people into my life that help me reach higher levels of understanding. They might not be duals but they are just as important on my path of self knowledge.
    Why is the former a problem if you do the latter?

  16. #16
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,893
    Mentioned
    732 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    VS


    Why is the former a problem if you do the latter?
    The theory as a whole could be developed to help others who are looking for ways to to help them communicate better. It really isn't a "problem", just a word choice so not meant to be taken too literally, but that is what I find less appealing. It feels incomplete in some way. I mean look at how many threads are people asking advice on how to deal with people...

    I won't let a personality theory dictate my interactions. I have my own stuff going on and my own ways of dealing with people.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  17. #17

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    The theory as a whole could be developed to help others who are looking for ways to to help them communicate better. It really isn't a "problem", just a word choice so not meant to be taken too literally, but that is what I find less appealing. It feels incomplete in some way. I mean look at how many threads are people asking advice on how to deal with people...

    I won't let a personality theory dictate my interactions. I have my own stuff going on and my own ways of dealing with people.
    What I meant was that if the theory works it means you are already locked in your intertype relations because you are behaving as yourself

    But yeah, that would be really stupid if anyone tried to use socionics for determining interactions.

  18. #18
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    The theory as a whole could be developed to help others who are looking for ways to to help them communicate better. It really isn't a "problem", just a word choice so not meant to be taken too literally, but that is what I find less appealing. It feels incomplete in some way. I mean look at how many threads are people asking advice on how to deal with people...

    I won't let a personality theory dictate my interactions. I have my own stuff going on and my own ways of dealing with people.
    well, intertype can explain how and why people don't get along as it would also explain why you and i don't. the tool doesn't have to be used to help us get along

  19. #19
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,893
    Mentioned
    732 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    well, intertype can explain how and why people don't get along as it would also explain why you and i don't. the tool doesn't have to be used to help us get along
    Just because I have called you out on stuff that didn't make sense to me doesn't mean I couldn't get along with you, or that I would dislike you, irl. I get along with my EII sister (we used to fight as kids but lots of kids fight) even though our world views are different. I also get along with other EII pretty well, one one one. I don't have to agree with them or coddle them just to get along. I have preferences when it comes to close friends though. I tend to stick with beta and gamma friends because it is more comfortable for me.

    Quasi-identity is an intertype relation between two people from opposing quadras who have similar, but not identical functions, and no suggestive influence over the other. Partners typically have a lot to say about the same kinds of topics (as do, typically, any members of a single club), and their conversations gravitate to these common spheres of interest, but they take entirely different approaches to every subject. They both take note of the same phenomena, but describe and analyze them in completely different terms that the other finds interesting, but completely unsatisfying. This is because the language and approach of one partner's leading function corresponds to the strong, but undervalued demonstrative function of the other. Each partner tends to be impressed with the other's skillful use of his leading function, which they perceive more as a "performance" (due to their own attitudes toward their demonstrative function) than a sincere and honest expression.
    In closer interaction, partners' instincts are to want to correct the other person's approach and redefine the issues in completely different language. This leads to a feeling of being under-appreciated by the other. Partners are easily drawn into quite personal conversations because of the sense that the other person can relate to them, but this psychological intimacy can easily disappear without a trace when aggravation about something the other person does finally boils over and partners allow themselves to express dissatisfaction with the other. This can lead to disappointment and a feeling of betrayal of trust or lack of loyalty when partners suddenly don't want to be around each other or maintain the relationship anymore because it drains them.
    While generally sympathetic towards each other and sharing many of the same weaknesses, quasi-identicals are almost unable to offer meaningful assistance on a personal level, and quickly become annoyed with each other's expectations, if any. Furthermore, the solutions to their emotional or personal problems are always radically different. For instance, an EIE must "get himself together" and stop being idle or hesitant, while an IEE needs a change of pace and some new diversion. If each tries to implement the other's recipe, nothing comes of it.
    But thank you for illustrating what I mean when I say that people get hung up on intertype relations. I am not going to let a description dictate my life like that. Socionics helps me understand myself better and sometimes it helps me see where I have problems in making myself understood to others. If I think a person is friend material or whatever, I won't let socionics doom it from the start. Just my perspective. Not claiming a universal truth.

    Edit: FTR, as much as I am into astrology and numerology I would not let it stop me from pursuing relationships with people I like. I think it all comes down to stuff we enjoy doing and talking about and whether there is chemistry for friendship or other.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  20. #20
    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    5,932
    Mentioned
    122 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    If you adopt a mentality of confirmation bias, Socionics is wonderful no matter how you apply it.

  21. #21
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Ok You Know Socionics, Now How Do You Make Your Personal Life Amazing With It?
    Take 1 pint Socionics, mix with 100g corn starch, 50g sugar, 20g salt, 400g flour, and 1 egg. Whisk together with water to build ribbons until very thick. Coat on life and fry until golden brown.

    *thumbs up*

    "See how simple that was, and you can do it yourself at home to!"

  22. #22
    Mallan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Washington
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Socionics is not something I stick with as a firm belief system for how people actually are. By that, I mean divided into these different types, groups, and quadras. Everybody is different no matter what type they are pegged as. It's all based off a manner of opinion in the end looking at it. The facts are there for how the person correlates with the type and quadra description, but it does not ultimately define who they are.
    Don't get me wrong. I love reading more and more about Socionics everyday! I always feel relieved knowing there's something written that describes even an ounce of how I am clear and to the point that would've otherwise taken forever for me to realize. Self-discovery is one of the biggest advantages this system has especially when diving into values and weaknesses. Another good way of making Socionics work in your favor is by examining how you are with another person.
    The intertype relations is one of the greatest eye-openers that comes with learning this system. If you read the workings of the various intertype relations, things start to make more sense the more you find yourself interacting with someone, whether they be your dual, conflictor, mirage, etc. It doesn't give you an advantage over the other person, of course, but you gain a more convenient way of understanding what others value and how they use it with you and others around them! You can use Socionics to tell yourself that if you simply be yourself that there will be people who appreciate it and even need it. Socionics also tells you that there are people you will and won't get along with, and that's okay. From those people, you will have learned what's important and what's not. Now that you know about this system, gather all the experience you have and use it to find the right people for you.

  23. #23
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,129
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ryoka14 View Post
    wait -- isn't the whole theory about information processing i.e. you can't fake being a type -- you are always your type just expressing different aspects of it
    Your type is a product of the iMs youve used, with the ego being used the most, as you learn them younger. Fake it until you make it still works In theory. Use other elements, get better at it.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

  24. #24
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,129
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Id imagine that anybody with a bit of specialized insight into humanity could focus it into some form of wily veteran cunning.

    It helps me speak in terms someone else can understand.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Your type is a product of the iMs youve used, with the ego being used the most, as you learn them younger. Fake it until you make it still works In theory. Use other elements, get better at it.
    now that sounds like a lot of waste of time and mental energy, trying to force a thing like that. in other words, I don't see it as practically possible much

  26. #26
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,129
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    now that sounds like a lot of waste of time and mental energy, trying to force a thing like that. in other words, I don't see it as practically possible much
    Well yeah, its not practical really. Its not something done to accomplish an end, it's a habit in life that reaps rewards if you can stick with it. It's actively pushing yourself to be better throughout your life.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Well yeah, its not practical really. Its not something done to accomplish an end, it's a habit in life that reaps rewards if you can stick with it. It's actively pushing yourself to be better throughout your life.
    The -rhetorical- question is, does it actually make you better off?

    Considering brain plasticity does decrease after the early years, I'm not convinced you can make e.g. a one-dimensional function into a three-dimensional one.

    And even if you succeed, how do you keep that in sync with the other already strong functions?

    This vision of an insanely well balanced superbrain is... well. A vision at this point, no more

  28. #28

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedMarquee View Post
    Is there an article on self help on bringing out your true self and improving yourself and aligning yourself with your type more? I grew up in a conflicting quadra home, where my polr was almost constantly berated and my HA ignored. This caused some warping in my type and lead to some psychological stresses even after removing myself from that environment. Made me all guarded, antisocial, and confused about the worth of my existence.

    So yeah is there an article on opening yourself up, pushing away percieved insecurities with your PoLR and letting your HA be freer without feeling awkward and weird and like nobody will like you? Duals are in short supply for me at the moment, So it would be a solo journey, perhaps one that will start attracting duals in even more so in an exponential growth kinda way.
    First figure out what exactly you are linking to concepts like "PoLR" and "HA". Figure out your unconscious issues that are related to your conceptualizing in this way. One thing I can guarantee to you, all this will go way beyond the theoretical framework of Socionics. Or just go to a psychologist if you don't feel up to this task yourself.

  29. #29
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,129
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    The -rhetorical- question is, does it actually make you better off?

    Considering brain plasticity does decrease after the early years, I'm not convinced you can make e.g. a one-dimensional function into a three-dimensional one.

    And even if you succeed, how do you keep that in sync with the other already strong functions?

    This vision of an insanely well balanced superbrain is... well. A vision at this point, no more
    I don't know what keeping that in sync means. The more mentally pliable you are, the better suited you are at not letting life crush you.

    People get better at using their functions/elements in life as it is, it's just pushing yourself to engage in what you're uncomfortable with helps speed up that improvement.

    I'm not talking superbrain here, just knowledge of your own limitations and an attitude to surpass them.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

  30. #30
    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,041
    Mentioned
    188 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Socionics helps with:

    a realising you can't do everything equally well (in a very broad sense)
    b realise others can't do everything equally well (again)
    c realise you'll always dislike some people and be disliked by some people

    those are the uses I got out of it. As for getting rid of insecurities and other weak spots: I advice professional counceling. Other than that if you want to tackle things on your own, take the behavioural approach. Identify your problems and find ways to get over them. I'm not sure socionics is on a practical enough level to actually help you yet.

    Also, avoid people that make you feel bad, socionics intertype relation be damned, just hang with nice people, only compromise this if something like work or family forces you to hang with people who make you miserable or just tired, but even then, there's borders where even family or work obligations should be damned and you just cut someone out.

  31. #31
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,337
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I don't know what keeping that in sync means. The more mentally pliable you are, the better suited you are at not letting life crush you.

    People get better at using their functions/elements in life as it is, it's just pushing yourself to engage in what you're uncomfortable with helps speed up that improvement.

    I'm not talking superbrain here, just knowledge of your own limitations and an attitude to surpass them.
    I totally agree.
    We can choose to not do something simply because we aren't any good at it, in which case we may be limiting ourselves; or we can try new things, push past the initial uncomfortableness that comes from making mistakes, forming different habits, and thereby expand our world, even if just a little bit.



    Also, for the OP, it's not so much about trying to improve an element, as it is doing something you want to do, but having to learn how to process unfamiliar types of information relative to that project/goal you want to achieve.

    For example, in my pursuit of developing a permaculture garden, I am having to learn how to think in terms of dynamic systems and interrelationships between plants with other plants, and with resources. I'm a static type, this kind of thinking is difficult, but I keep slogging through, step by step improving my understandings and therefore my ability to think this way. (I still have a long ways to go though, but am confident i will eventually get a permaculture garden set up.)

    One of my other problems in this is that I don't pay enough attention to what plants look like. I look out on my garden, and other than when it's fruiting, or the lettuce in my deck pots, most of it is just a sea of green. So I'm also learning how to identify plants, and one of the best ways of doing that is to sketch them. It slows the brain down enough to actually observe and think about what I'm looking at, with less of risk of jumping around and assuming I got it because I read a word. Part of me fights against this type of observing and analyzing the physical parts of the plants, and I currently lack eye hand coordination enough to draw, but all of this will develop the more I practice.

    In time, as I develop a knowledge base and an understanding of my particular garden, it will help me maybe understand some related things outside of my garden. And if I constantly talk about the things I learn/know, and show off the garden journal with its (improved) sketches and diagrams, some person who doesn't know me will jump to the conclusion that i must be a S-dynamic type, or an S-logic type. I wouldn't be, those particular skills/understandings would be very limited to one area, rather than generalized throughout my life and other contexts I'm in.

    The thing is, even though I am and will be improving my ability to process other information elements, I'm still being guided through it all by my NeFi-ness.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  32. #32
    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    emotionz
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,114
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i'm personally a bigger proponent of the enneagram in terms of "living a more fulfilling life"

    that shit will help you out w/ your own neuroses

    socionics seemed more helpful in terms of teaching me what my own strengths are, what areas I can develop (weak Ne)

  33. #33
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,893
    Mentioned
    732 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I don't know what keeping that in sync means. The more mentally pliable you are, the better suited you are at not letting life crush you.

    People get better at using their functions/elements in life as it is, it's just pushing yourself to engage in what you're uncomfortable with helps speed up that improvement.

    I'm not talking superbrain here, just knowledge of your own limitations and an attitude to surpass them.
    I raised my IQ scores by ten points in a relatively short period of time by refusing to be limited by what another person said to me. hmmph! I am a bit competitive so once I learned what they were looking for I practiced until I could answer more of the questions with ease. I was already above average but I was not content with that at the time. I have been professionally tested in a clinical setting.

    I have also mentioned an ILI, I knew, who was so low on EQ it was hard to imagine how he was able to get along with others at all but he raised his EQ and then it was close to the same level as mine. He did it by deciding it was something important for him to learn. His IQ was already very high. He became a more compassionate person in the process. He also had perfectionist tendencies so wanted to be perfectly balanced in mind, body and spirit. I have no doubt that he could have achieved if he had more time. I do believe we can exercise our functions and I watch enough of brain games and superhumans to see that some people may have a superbrain. Fascinating really.


    Intelligence Is Overrated: What You Really Need To Succeed


    Albert Einstein’s was estimated at 160, Madonna’s is 140, and John F. Kennedy’s was only 119, but as it turns out, your IQ score pales in comparison with your EQ, MQ, and BQ scores when it comes to predicting your success and professional achievement.
    IQ tests are used as an indicator of logical reasoning ability and technical intelligence. A high IQ is often a prerequisite for rising to the top ranks of business today. It is necessary, but it is not adequate to predict executive competence and corporate success. By itself, a high IQ does not guarantee that you will stand out and rise above everyone else.

    Research carried out by the Carnegie Institute of Technology shows that 85 percent of your financial success is due to skills in “human engineering,” your personality and ability to communicate, negotiate, and lead. Shockingly, only 15 percent is due to technical knowledge. Additionally, Nobel Prize winning Israeli-American psychologist, Daniel Kahneman, found that people would rather do business with a person they like and trust rather than someone they don’t, even if the likeable person is offering a lower quality product or service at a higher price.

    With this in mind, instead of exclusively focusing on your conventional intelligence quotient, you should make an investment in strengthening your EQ (Emotional Intelligence), MQ (Moral Intelligence), and BQ (Body Intelligence). These concepts may be elusive and difficult to measure, but their significance is far greater than IQ.

    Emotional Intelligence
    EQ is the most well known of the three, and in brief it is about: being aware of your own feelings and those of others, regulating these feelings in yourself and others, using emotions that are appropriate to the situation, self-motivation, and building relationships.

    Top Tip for Improvement: First, become aware of your inner dialogue. It helps to keep a journal of what thoughts fill your mind during the day. Stress can be a huge killer of emotional intelligence, so you also need to develop healthy coping techniques that can effectively and quickly reduce stress in a volatile situation.

    Moral Intelligence
    MQ directly follows EQ as it deals with your integrity, responsibility, sympathy, and forgiveness. The way you treat yourself is the way other people will treat you. Keeping commitments, maintaining your integrity, and being honest are crucial to moral intelligence.
    Top Tip for Improvement: Make fewer excuses and take responsibility for your actions. Avoid little white lies. Show sympathy and communicate respect to others. Practice acceptance and show tolerance of other people’s shortcomings. Forgiveness is not just about how we relate to others; it’s also how you relate to and feel about yourself.

    Body Intelligence
    Lastly, there is your BQ, or body intelligence, which reflects what you know about your body, how you feel about it, and take care of it. Your body is constantly telling you things; are you listening to the signals or ignoring them? Are you eating energy-giving or energy-draining foods on a daily basis? Are you getting enough rest? Do you exercise and take care of your body? It may seem like these matters are unrelated to business performance, but your body intelligence absolutely affects your work because it largely determines your feelings, thoughts, self-confidence, state of mind, and energy level.

    Top Tip For Improvement: At least once a day, listen to the messages your body is sending you about your health. Actively monitor these signals instead of going on autopilot. Good nutrition, regular exercise, and adequate rest are all key aspects of having a high BQ. Monitoring your weight, practicing moderation with alcohol, and making sure you have down time can dramatically benefit the functioning of your brain and the way you perform at work.

    What You Really Need To Succeed
    It doesn’t matter if you did not receive the best academic training from a top university. A person with less education who has fully developed their EQ, MQ, and BQ can be far more successful than a person with an impressive education who falls short in these other categories.
    Yes, it is certainly good to be an intelligent, rational thinker and have a high IQ; this is an important asset. But you must realize that it is not enough. Your IQ will help you personally, but EQ, MQ, and BQ will benefit everyone around you as well. If you can master the complexities of these unique and often under-rated forms of intelligence, research tells us you will achieve greater success and be regarded as more professionally competent and capable.


    Also this: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...oel-schneider/

    Edit: I usually hate talking about IQ because it reminds me of some very pretentious people I know but it seemed relevant to this post.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  34. #34

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I don't know what keeping that in sync means. The more mentally pliable you are, the better suited you are at not letting life crush you.

    People get better at using their functions/elements in life as it is, it's just pushing yourself to engage in what you're uncomfortable with helps speed up that improvement.

    I'm not talking superbrain here, just knowledge of your own limitations and an attitude to surpass them.
    OK but I think these things should be done for specific goals, what's the point of wasting time trying to overcome every limitation you have and in the process achieve nothing really?

    But yes, I agree that just because something is uncomfortable, it shouldn't stand in your way

    Mental pliability... explain this concept of yours in more details please.



    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I raised my IQ scores by ten points in a relatively short period of time by refusing to be limited by what another person said to me. hmmph! I am a bit competitive so once I learned what they were looking for I practiced until I could answer more of the questions with ease. I was already above average but I was not content with that at the time. I have been professionally tested in a clinical setting.
    That's cool. The question is, did you get better in life too or just on that one specific type of IQ test?


    I have also mentioned an ILI, I knew, who was so low on EQ it was hard to imagine how he was able to get along with others at all but he raised his EQ and then it was close to the same level as mine. He did it by deciding it was something important for him to learn. His IQ was already very high. He became a more compassionate person in the process. He also had perfectionist tendencies so wanted to be perfectly balanced in mind, body and spirit. I have no doubt that he could have achieved if he had more time. I do believe we can exercise our functions and I watch enough of brain games and superhumans to see that some people may have a superbrain. Fascinating really.
    Again, would you describe what exactly you mean by superbrain?

  35. #35
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,129
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    OK but I think these things should be done for specific goals, what's the point of wasting time trying to overcome every limitation you have and in the process achieve nothing really?
    But yes, I agree that just because something is uncomfortable, it shouldn't stand in your way
    Mental pliability... explain this concept of yours in more details please.
    Because what you achieve in the process will far surpass the goals you would set.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

  36. #36
    shadowbox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    TIM
    INTp-Te 5w4
    Posts
    41
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think it depends on what you want out of life exactly. Part of the intended benefit of socionics is to help you come to an understanding of the shortcomings of yourself and others as well as an appreciation of talents and strong qualities you may have overlooked, ideally resulting in a sort of zen-like acceptance of people and the world. The other benefit of socionics is to use it in order to achieve your goals in life both through self improvement and (and this is where it may get ethically shaky) through using your socionics knowledge to your advantage in interactions with others. I've noticed that while there is some decent material available in english, there are relatively few articles about self improvement through socionics and much of the discussion around socionics tends to exaggerate the extent to which certain functions are completely immutable. Obviously you have strong and weak functions, but while your weak functions will most likely never be your main asset, they can definitely be strengthened.

    As for using your socionics knowledge on other people, although it doesn't give you mind control powers or anything, it definitely does give you an advantage once you start to get good at typing others. The advantage is that socionics typing gives you a shortcut in understanding others, i.e. an insight into their strengths, weaknesses and inner motivations that you might otherwise not know about them unless you were a close friend of theirs for a long time. Obviously if you're Machiavellian enough you can use this knowledge to manipulate them either for your or their benefit, but as I mentioned before there's definitely a moral hazard in doing this carelessly.

    The last warning I'd give is to not take everything you read about socionics too seriously, like any theory it has its shortcomings (although I'd argue that its much better than most psychological theories). The key is to gradually find out for yourself which aspects of socionics are true and to what extent they are true. Socionics isn't an all or nothing proposition like a mathematical formula, it's a theory meant to attempt to describe irreducibly complex features and nuances of personality differences and interpersonal reactions in the most elegant way possible.

  37. #37
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,893
    Mentioned
    732 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    That's cool. The question is, did you get better in life too or just on that one specific type of IQ test?

    Again, would you describe what exactly you mean by superbrain?
    Yes, any self improvement = new experiences = better life

    I do not claim to have a super brain but I believe there are many out there who do. I don't have to describe exactly since others already have. I will let a neuroscientist handle it.





    I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just stating my beliefs. Since my mind is not going to change on this subject, I leave it with this:


    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  38. #38
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,469
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    eh, i find being emotionally healthy to be boring and overrated. i really do.

    personality disorders give you the will to set yourself apart from moral taboos. irrational people are the one who stand out, not the people who engage in mindless homeostasis, enraptured by a dull, clichťd existence.

    if socionics has "taught" me anything, it's that Fi PoLR is nothing to be ashamed of; ergo, Mother Teresa should choke on my fat, hairy cock.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

  39. #39
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    954
    Posts
    5,989
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i think the value was supposed to be understanding relationship problems in a different light, perhaps even better so as to overcome issues. and i do like the concept in the sense that if we all process info differently, focus on different perceptions, then of course there will be information processing clashes... as for making one's own life and oneself more "awesome," i suppose i think socionics is a dead end.

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Florida
    TIM
    ILE 8w9
    Posts
    3,249
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I snatched my dual. I have been in a relationship with her for the last seven months.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •