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Thread: What does fairness mean to you

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    Default What does fairness mean to you

    Fairness seems to be attributed to the function but I don't think it's limited to just .

    What's your socionics type and what does fairness mean to you personally? Don't just give a dictionary definition. Instead write what first spontaneously comes to mind.
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    how is fitness :ti

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    Fairness is when you don't worry about random inconsistent feelings and you reach an equitable serviceable solution for everyone.

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    not scamming vulnerable people , spreading ur power around and not being a narcissist

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    It depends on the context, and thus is dependent upon the semantic leanings of the individual.

    For example:

    Fairness to might be along the lines of quid pro quo, an equal exchange.
    Fairness to might be holding people to moral standards and treating people according to those standards.
    Fairness to might be allowing everyone to open up emotionally or join in the group spirit.
    Have a different opinion on my type? Message me or tell me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Foundation View Post
    It depends on the context, and thus is dependent upon the semantic leanings of the individual.

    For example:

    Fairness to might be along the lines of quid pro quo, an equal exchange.
    Fairness to might be holding people to moral standards and treating people according to those standards.
    Fairness to might be allowing everyone to open up emotionally or join in the group spirit.
    What about the S and N functions? Or do you think fairness is primariliy a by-product of rational functions?
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    I see fairness as a counterbalance to kindness.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIIbrarian View Post
    What about the S and N functions? Or do you think fairness is primariliy a by-product of rational functions?
    I can't really think of any proper instances of fairness with the irrational elements, but that doesn't mean there isn't some sort of irrational element manifestation of fairness.

    Perhaps these might do somewhat:

    Fairness to might involve everyone having fair access to pleasure and comfort, or to a good, pleasant life.
    Fairness to might be equal opportunity for rewards of those who are willing to push themselves or work hard (that everyone is able to succeed through effort)
    Fairness to would be something involving the intrinsic potential in all human beings to be whatever they want or do whatever they want with their life (opportunity?)

    I really have no idea with .
    Have a different opinion on my type? Message me or tell me.

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    Fundamentally life is not fair and never will be. If you spend all your time and energy worrying about the lack of fairness you will miss out on opportunities and choices that could help level the playing field for yourself and others, that you care about. If you miss a few along the way better ones usually soon follow anyway. It would be nice and fair if people gave each other the same respect, and freedom, to do what fulfills them or makes them happy, that they expect others to give them, but that isn't a reasonable expectation to have of others.

    Anyway I am still an optimistic idealist who will look for ways to circumvent the rules and bypass obstacles in order to make a difference in the lives of those I love and/or care for. I live with an IEI, 368, who gets bogged down in his perception of what is fair. It is annoying to the point that I don't even feel comfortable talking to him about the choices he could still make now that will help him in the future. He gets totally defensive and plays the "it's not fair" card.

    He feels like I have things handed to me and he never gets a break. It is kind of true but at the same time I worked my ass off (in my own way) and did things he would never be able or even want to do, so I am careful when I give him suggestions because I have had it pretty easy as far as material things. People give me things but it's because they want to. I don't ask and often I am even reluctant to accept things for doing nothing in return because I guess I do have a shred of an underlying belief that thinks it isn't fair if I do not give something in return. My "spiritual" practices have been helpful. I try to remember that what you put out in energy, in any form, comes back to you. Whether that return is "good" or "bad" depends on what you have invested. In a way that is kind of fair to everyone, if that belief is true.

    It has not been so easy in the emotional and psychological aspects of my life but I don't spend all my time complaining about things I can't do anything to change and what is or isn't fair. He thinks if he was born a girl life would have been easier for him too. I can direct him to many women who would not agree. My life hasn't always been easy as a whole but that is life...

    I am not sure which function I can attribute this to or even if it can be attributed to a function.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Aylen your perception of that situation is skewered because you're the type of girl that is attracted to sadistic guys.

    Life isn't fair, it is cruel and harsh- but true heroes try to change the world not just accept the way it is.

    We already know it's not fair. But we, try to make it fair anyway. That is the difference between Good and Evil.
    Last edited by bnd; 03-05-2015 at 09:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Aylen your perception of that situation is skewered because you're the type of girl that is attracted to sadistic guys.

    Life isn't fair, it is cruel and harsh- but true heroes try to change the world not just accept the way it is.

    We already know it's not fair. But we, try to make it fair anyway. That is the difference between Good and Evil.
    Like I said in chatbox your intuition, or whatever, is so off about me. I am done fighting your perception that I am into sadists. I am not a hero and wouldn't want to be. I do what I can for those in my community instead of sulk about life being unfair or complaining about how others spend their money. I can only assume you didn't like the way I talked about my IEI brother so you felt a need to comment on my perception. Well he doesn't like it either but he is not so closed minded that I can't reach him with the correct tone of voice and level of understanding. Because of your post I am not going to give up on him and I am going to push him harder. One of us has to manifest some Se around here. It's time to push that baby bird out of the nest...

    I am so happy to know there are heros like you out in this world making changes, in the lives of others, on a large scale, so that I can continue to focus on the few individuals in my community that I am actually able to help. Because of you I do not have to worry about the whole damn world. I am sure the forum will sleep easier tonight knowing this. Seems like a heavy burden to take on all the evil in the world. I am in awe of your majesty. Maybe one day I too can be as altruistic and compassionate as you. Thank you.


    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    I mean, this is the same issue as of being "rational" or "reasonable" somehow. Anyone who knows the first thing about socionics, Jungian typology, etc knows that the point of acknowledging the irrational is that it has a certain a priori reality -- when we try to play by reason, we are noting that there tends to be a logic to our living, and we try to restrict living more and more to what actually fits within that domain. It doesn't mean that everything fits within it -- but we choose to focus our energies on what does and diminish the influence of those factors which do not.
    Obviously we cannot do this entirely, but there are degrees.

    The trick also is that, where we try to apply reason, there are different paradigms from which we can attempt to fit the irrational to the rational, and this tends to be what happens when incompatible explanations are adjusted and resolved.

    So to me, fairness is mainly about the commitment to minimize deviation from aforementioned paradigm -- unrelenting pursuit of the explanation which truly resolves the contradictions we see.
    Fairness does NOT mean applying the same standard to everyone -- it involves more intelligence than that.

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    I don't have the belief that life is unfair. Because of this, people who use the word fair/unfair on a regular basis really pushes a button for me. I've noticed that the people I hear using these words have the belief that fairness equates to exactly equal. This is not my personal definition. For a very simple example, 4 people need to share some food. We have a 200 pound man, a breastfeeding woman, a small child and an elderly person. In the view I've seen most "fair" users take it that all 4 people must each receive the exact same amount of food for it to be "fair". I see fair as the best solution for each individual person, for each situation. So each person in the above example would receive the most optimal amount of food per each of their bodily needs. This would be considered fair in my book. I do know that unfortunate things happen to people and I'm not against sometimes using the word unfair, but it's mostly because it's the best term to use in my given culture to express a feeling attached to the circumstance, to express empathy. I also will use the term in jest for something trivial that just doesn't go right. Again, I use it to express humor. Or I will use it when I do see something completely unjust to express my anger. So I do indeed use these words more than I thought originally, but as a means to express feelings/sentiment, not because I directly see things as fair/unfair... I believe I am IEE.

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    Yes, the above example is why I emphasize fairness isn't so much a matter of pedantry as rationality, which are two very different things. Rationality involves a kind of consistency and coherency -- if you support X in one case and don't in another case just out of convenience rather than on some coherent application of principle, then I see no validity to the argument. OTOH coherent application of principle has every means of letting us rationalize distinct concrete outcomes for distinct parties.

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    It means that you get what you give?

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    I feel a sense of fairness when I help other people and they feel a desire to reciprocate that in various ways. Otherwise, meh...I feel taken advantage of and stop caring about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Foundation View Post
    I can't really think of any proper instances of fairness with the irrational elements, but that doesn't mean there isn't some sort of irrational element manifestation of fairness.

    Perhaps these might do somewhat:

    Fairness to might involve everyone having fair access to pleasure and comfort, or to a good, pleasant life.
    Fairness to might be equal opportunity for rewards of those who are willing to push themselves or work hard (that everyone is able to succeed through effort)
    Fairness to would be something involving the intrinsic potential in all human beings to be whatever they want or do whatever they want with their life (opportunity?)

    I really have no idea with .
    Fairness is an artificial construct. Fairness is what you make it out to be? I have no idea either for

    I resonate alot with and I can see the the validity of the point of view but there are problems with it. What about people who truly put in the effort but still don't succeed? IShould we let them shrivel up and die or live a penniless existence? My answer is no.

    ]
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by LIIbrarian View Post
    Fairness seems to be attributed to the function but I don't think it's limited to just .

    What's your socionics type and what does fairness mean to you personally? Don't just give a dictionary definition. Instead write what first spontaneously comes to mind.
    I think fairness is a major alpha quadra thing, some other quadra types try to emulate it

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIIbrarian View Post
    Fairness is an artificial construct. Fairness is what you make it out to be? I have no idea either for

    I resonate alot with and I can see the the validity of the point of view but there are problems with it. What about people who truly put in the effort but still don't succeed? IShould we let them shrivel up and die or live a penniless existence? My answer is no.

    ]
    Why exactly would Ni fairness be this? Just curious about your thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIIbrarian View Post
    Fairness is an artificial construct. Fairness is what you make it out to be? I have no idea either for

    I resonate alot with and I can see the the validity of the point of view but there are problems with it. What about people who truly put in the effort but still don't succeed? IShould we let them shrivel up and die or live a penniless existence? My answer is no.

    ]
    I think the main issue with 's construct of fairness is due to the general conflict of the element with the concept of equality in the first place. To , all alternatives and perspectives can be considered worthy, but to , some alternatives and perspectives can be considered inherently "better" or "truer" than others (the gravity aspect to , freely strays from a central basis and can float away, while always seems to be pulled toward a small group of ideas or a central basis). Thus, fairness to appears a bit more complicated. The only thing I could assume could be considered "equal" might be the fairness for all individuals to experience or interpret life however they wish (hard to put to words, a sort of "right to transcendence" I guess).

    Interesting point on the flaws of the view too, due to the fact that I've often brought up these flaws to an existence entirely dictated by an internal locus of control (with hard work, anything is possible) to a person I wholeheartedly believe is an SLE, who tends to absolutely shun the concept of an external locus of control that constrains individuals from achieving success, fighting the dissonance it causes him by merely saying that there is always an opportunity or route to success (he gets rather emotional and distraught at the notion that there might not be a way). I would conjecture that there are probably flaws to each of the information elements' perspective to fairness, but that they can be most easily seen in types who are the weakest in them and or subdue them.

    EDIT: I started thinking more about it, and came upon a sort of working theory for 's fairness.

    Fairness to might be balance and stability reached after turbulence, much like quid quo pro for . That, for every action, things change and mold until everything is affected and changes begin to subside, like ripples in a pool of water that alter the surface of the pool until the ripples dissipate and the water becomes still again. Perhaps a "fair right to peace or balance", or the presence of a "natural order of things". Just a thought.
    Last edited by The Foundation; 03-07-2015 at 05:03 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I think fairness is a major alpha quadra thing, some other quadra types try to emulate it
    Why?
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    Do you think it makes sense to say that irrational/perceiving functions make evaluations of fairness? I don't; because that requires rationale, which would belong to the rational functions, conceptually.

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