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Thread: I'm not an ENTj

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    Default I'm not an ENTj

    I'm an INTp.

    Highly ironic, but that's what I originally thought I was before gaining an interest in Socionics.

    At the time I accepted being an ENTj, it was a sort of "ok if you say so" acceptance because I still had a lot of reservations and skepticism. But I did identify strongly with ENTj profiles, my pattern did seem to suggest ENTj, and I did seem very similar to the other ENTjs on these forums such as Expat, Eidos, "Steve" (the other one, is he still around?), and a few others, so it was a safe bet. Over time though, I realized from both comparison to these guys and to other real life ENTjs that I know that my thinking pattern while very similar, just wasn't quite the same.

    It's a very fine line, but what it comes down to is just being a product of my EJ environment I guess. On one hand I'm just not an aggressive and highly motivated "doer" like a typical ENTj is, but on the other hand I'm not exactly an unmotivated and procrastinating INTp either. I'm "flexible" I guess and can be whatever I need to be with little stress, but my EJ traits are more what I would call learned behaivor rather than natural behavior. After comparing some notes with Expat along with some "thought process dumps" just looking at how we think, I'm definitely more IP than EJ. I'm comfortable and relaxed "doing" nothing, favoring perception, and not taking action on anything, whereas Expat stated he would be more likely to be restless or perhaps mildly depressed if he's "doing nothing." I realized this recently after switching jobs and a bit of a career jump into a different industry. My last job was very stressful because it needed a lot of quick decision making and quick solutions also. That would cause anybody stress, but some handle it more naturally than others, and I was pretty damn stressed. My new job is a lot slower paced, there is time to think about things, a rush is not needed in finding solutions and making decisions either. And low and behold, I find myself a whole lot more comfortable. If I'm looking at a problem, there is time to use my favored perception a lot more before acting on something, whereas before it was the other way around and I was less comfortable.

    Beyond that, just looking at these two profiles [INTp & ENTj] right on the front page here, I clearly fit a lot better with INTp than ENTj. Not all of it fits for either, and in some cases I'll still indentify with ENTj traits better, but the overall alignment with INTp is still better. The essence of the INTp/Critic is "me" moreso than an ENTj/Entrepreneur. The Jack London ENTj profile I read before I did indentify very strongly with, but back when I was in much more of an EJ mood and environment, where I looked and acted much more like an ENTj. I don't think the other INTp profile I looked at at the time was all that well written, so that didn't help either.

    I'm still thinking through it more, but even the functional alignment with the hidden agenda, PoLR, Role, etc all seem to fit more with INTp than ENTj. I could never ever really identify with the ENTj hidden agenda "to be powerful". And even though my test results showed as a PoLR, I don't think that's true. If somebody criticizes me for looks, attire, health, etc I really don't care. It doesn't "hit me hard" or anything. / as a 4th & 6th function make far more sense, and there are many examples of that. Si types do annoy me, but much less so than Fe types who really annoy me.

    http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/...=5676&start=30

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    An INTp wants to hang around with an ESFp who will pursue him/her. An INTj can't stand ESFps.

    An INTj wants to relax and be put into a happy mood by an emotional-overflowing ESFj. This thought makes the INTp sick.
    Totally! Fe just "bothers" me. Way more than Si ever has.

    My wife is a pretty solid ISFj, so that would make the two of us something between Duality and Activity. Honestly, I can see either, but knowing that she was an ISFj for sure was what helped me to realize I was an ENTj. But time passes, you gain new perspective, and I can just as easily see Activity as well. We can start something up, have a ton of fun together, but then get sort of over-activated and need a break from each other. Either way I don't care, though. I am who I am and my wife and I have always had a very solid relationship, and when problems arise we work them out and come to an understanding like everybody else does (or should). She likes it when I'm an assertive take-charge ENTj, but also likes it when I'm a flexible and adaptive INTp to go out and have a lot of fun with. So no complaints or any real conflict there. Some activity style over-activation recently did help tip me off that maybe I wasn't "really" an ENTj, though. :wink:


    So that's that. I'm an INTp.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
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    Default Re: I'm not an ENTj

    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    So that's that. I'm an INTp.
    Then change your signature and move on! Or are you still hesitant and want to explore this before settling with INTp?

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    Default Re: I'm not an ENTj

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    So that's that. I'm an INTp.
    Then change your signature and move on! Or are you still hesitant and want to explore this before settling with INTp?
    lol. you changed it while i was writing. so change your nick now!

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    IMHO you're clearly ENTj, your writing is purely

    I'd even go as far as saying that you're ENTj Te subtype. The values you promote are clearly much more EJ than IP centered, too.

    IME ISFjs don't really like it when somebody takes charge but I might be coming from the wrong perispective.
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    Since you brought it up, I think you're ESTj, stevENTj. How about that? I see a lot of Ne in your posts.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Since you brought it up, I think you're ESTj, stevENTj. How about that? I see a lot of Ne in your posts.
    ?...o_O

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    Default Re: I'm not an ENTj

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    lol. you changed it while i was writing. so change your nick now!
    nah, i'll just leave it as is to intentionally confuse people. I don't think I'm all that good of an example of either type though, so "gamma NT" is probably the best description for me rather than any particular type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    IMHO you're clearly ENTj, your writing is purely

    I'd even go as far as saying that you're ENTj Te subtype. The values you promote are clearly much more EJ than IP centered, too.
    I can see why you might think that, and I do express a lot of , but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm Te dominant. What I realized is that I'm dominant, except I hardly ever express that, so you might not ever know it's there. This is just one of the many follies of trying to type people online because you don't always experience all of what's there in a person. Even a brief meet-up in person probably will not give you the full experience. Anyways, Te creatively feeds my Ni, and Te is what ends up getting expressed here, not Ni. So you do see a lot of Te, but what about the 99.9999% of my time in which I'm not on this forum? You can't account for that, but I can, and there's a crap load of Ni there.

    As far as values I promote, what do you mean, and how would you tie them into being more EJ than IP?

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    IME ISFjs don't really like it when somebody takes charge but I might be coming from the wrong perispective.
    Maybe they like it when somebody takes charge in a way they like. Outside of socionics, my wife and I share a lot of the same views, beliefs, philosophies on life, etc. An ISFj would not like a ENTj taking charge in a manner that goes against their strong . Just as I'll be highly annoyed with ESFp's that have opposed ethical views, or whom try to make mountains out of mole hills. The way I see it, Gamma SFs & NTs can either be best friends and strongest allies, or your worst and most hated enemies all depending on whether your principles are compatible or not.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Since you brought it up, I think you're ESTj, stevENTj. How about that? I see a lot of Ne in your posts.
    errm, how do you see a lot of in my posts, and how would that make me an ESTj? Are you sure you didn't mean something else?


    But this is the same type of online typing error. I hardly post here. For the most part I read and lurk, and when I feel like I have something worth saying I say it, but otherwise I remain pretty silent. >99% of my thoughts never get posted here, so whomever is trying to type me based on what I post is getting not even a 1% slice of my thought pattern with which to type me on. Is that going to be accurate? Probably not...
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Since you brought it up, I think you're ESTj, stevENTj. How about that? I see a lot of Ne in your posts.
    errm, how do you see a lot of in my posts, and how would that make me an ESTj? Are you sure you didn't mean something else?


    But this is the same type of online typing error. I hardly post here. For the most part I read and lurk, and when I feel like I have something worth saying I say it, but otherwise I remain pretty silent. >99% of my thoughts never get posted here, so whomever is trying to type me based on what I post is getting not even a 1% slice of my thought pattern with which to type me on. Is that going to be accurate? Probably not...
    is the hidden agenda for ESTjs and you often leave the options open in your posts, especially in the way you formulate your questions. I'm not saying that I know anything beyond the impression I get from your posts. It's a suggestion.

    Deleted things I can't formulate well.
    INFj

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    Hmm. For some reason you don't sound like an INTP. This post doesn't sound like an INTP would write it. It's very thorough and thoughtful and detailed and focused...You sound a bit like Kristiina. INTPs are sorta scattered and if you are, you would never have mistaken yourself as ENTJ. I think.
    INFP

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    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    is the hidden agenda for ESTjs and you often leave the options open in your posts, especially in the way you formulate your questions. I'm not saying that I know anything beyond the impression I get from your posts. It's a suggestion.
    Leaving options open in my posts could just as easily mean that I favor a perceptive function "p", which I do. Also, the subject matter of this forum is a soft science where it's difficult if not impossible to prove theory and turn it into fact. On other forums based more on hard sciences where there are clear right and wrong answers and factual data, I probably come across as a "j".

    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    You also don't have the tendency to let influence your morals, like ENTjs often do.
    I think I know what you mean, and that's just another reason why I'm probably not really ENTj.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamer
    Hmm. For some reason you don't sound like an INTP. This post doesn't sound like an INTP would write it. It's very thorough and thoughtful and detailed and focused...You sound a bit like Kristiina. INTPs are sorta scattered and if you are, you would never have mistaken yourself as ENTJ. I think.
    LOL, I thought my post was a bit rushed and sloppy. I was told by somebody else that I reminded them of Cone. Cone is an INTp and puts together some very thorough, thoughtful, detailed, and focused posts. I don't think being an INTp precludes one from doing that. I think the point about INTp's being scattered is a bit of a stereotype. Internally I probably am a bit scattered, but creatively I express which is much more organized. And then it's back to the same point - because I "sound like" something online (or not), doesn't mean I am that something (or not).

    There is another forum out there specifically for INTp's (MBTI). A lot of them are extreme procrastinators, unmotivated, disorganized, live among piles, are unfocused, and perhaps underachievers. But I think a lot of them may use the realization of their type and its stereotypes to excuse away their unhealthy behavior, rather than getting their crap together and making something of their lives like they ought to be.

    I think it'd be very easy to be caught between INTp and ENTj if you're only slightly IP, and are living in an EJ world and need to be an EJ, with a lot of your past behavior pointing towards EJ. It's just a question of what feels more natural though, and for me it's definitely IP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    There is another forum out there specifically for INTp's (MBTI). A lot of them are extreme procrastinators, unmotivated, disorganized, live among piles, are unfocused, and perhaps underachievers. But I think a lot of them may use the realization of their type and its stereotypes to excuse away their unhealthy behavior, rather than getting their crap together and making something of their lives like they ought to be.
    .
    JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    I think it'd be very easy to be caught between INTp and ENTj if you're only slightly IP, and are living in an EJ world and need to be an EJ, with a lot of your past behavior pointing towards EJ.
    EJs are defined as adapting their behaviour to the rules of the environment. Therefore, this is further proof for EJ,actually.
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    IPs don't adapt at all?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    I think it'd be very easy to be caught between INTp and ENTj if you're only slightly IP, and are living in an EJ world and need to be an EJ, with a lot of your past behavior pointing towards EJ.
    EJs are defined as adapting their behaviour to the rules of the environment. Therefore, this is further proof for EJ,actually.
    From a post Expat just made over in gamma...

    INTp, ISTp, ISFp, INFp - relaxed, go-with-the-flow - "IP"

    If the flow is EJ, and an IP "goes with the flow", then I become EJ when I need to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    I think it'd be very easy to be caught between INTp and ENTj if you're only slightly IP, and are living in an EJ world and need to be an EJ, with a lot of your past behavior pointing towards EJ.
    EJs are defined as adapting their behaviour to the rules of the environment. Therefore, this is further proof for EJ,actually.
    From a post Expat just made over in gamma...

    INTp, ISTp, ISFp, INFp - relaxed, go-with-the-flow - "IP"

    If the flow is EJ, and an IP "goes with the flow", then I become EJ when I need to.
    Logically contradictory. Either you go with the flow, or change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    There is another forum out there specifically for INTp's (MBTI). A lot of them are extreme procrastinators, unmotivated, disorganized, live among piles, are unfocused, and perhaps underachievers. But I think a lot of them may use the realization of their type and its stereotypes to excuse away their unhealthy behavior, rather than getting their crap together and making something of their lives like they ought to be.
    .
    JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ
    No that's perception. It's a perception of what kinds of people are on a site, classification of how their behavior is bad , and then perception of how they use that knowledge over time, and how it's likely to affect them in the future (time related), and what they should be doing instead, and what will probably happen if they don't (time related).

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    All your posts are so impregnated of J both in content and in structure that it is kinda hilarious how you make a point for P using only J arguments
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    All your posts are so impregnated of J both in content and in structure that it is kinda hilarious how you make a point for P using only J arguments
    A brick wall. Reread what I wrote pleeease.

    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    But this is the same type of online typing error. I hardly post here. For the most part I read and lurk, and when I feel like I have something worth saying I say it, but otherwise I remain pretty silent. >99% of my thoughts never get posted here, so whomever is trying to type me based on what I post is getting not even a 1% slice of my thought pattern with which to type me on. Is that going to be accurate? Probably not...
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    Ah yeah definitely. I can't argue against or for what I don't see. Of course everything I see here points towards ENTj, except the fact that you say everything in your life doesn't. So uhm, I figure that until something can turn the whole towards a direction or another, I'd remain neutral, even if my personal take remains ENTj.
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    Ding ding! Yes, this is why I "appear" ENTj.

    Day 1: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 2: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 3: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 4: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 5: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 6: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 7: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 8: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 9: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 10: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 11: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 12: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 13: I contemplate various possibilties about my type, and don't post. (P)
    Day 14: I conclude, and do post that conclusion here. (J)

    I see:
    P: 13 days
    J: 1 day

    My conclusion: P


    FDG sees:
    P posts: 0
    J posts: 300

    FDG's conclusion: J

    I see:

    300000000000 P thoughts that I don't post that nobody here sees.
    300 J thoughts that I do post.

    I see: P (and duh)
    FDG sees: J (and duh)

    My conclusion: P by a long shot
    FDG's conclusion: J by a long shot


    This is how typing people just by what they post online can be so misleading and inaccurate. You go on what they post, but you never really know what they don't post. And is what they post all that's there, or is it just the tip of the iceburg? You never know. As for why I don't post much, it's due to a lot of things. Time is the biggest one. I also value privacy and don't want my life to be an open book on the Internet. Another is that the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know, and the stupider or less confident I feel. I don't want to mislead people, so I don't post until I'm fairly confident about something, which usually involved quite a bit of offline thought and research, as represented above.

    Special thanks to Expat for the help in realizing my true type, because I spammed up his PM box with a lot of thoughts and questions over the past week which weren't seen here either. :wink:
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    Contemplating, or having a contemplative side, doesn't make you a P. I think the people who see you as an ENTj or ESTj are basing that on the content of what you say, not by the fact that you've come to a firm decision about your type.

    Nevertheless, in double pole Socionics, you could be an INTp logical subtype, which, according to my "radical subtype theory" would still be a J type.

    http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5648

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Contemplating, or having a contemplative side, doesn't make you a P. I think the people who see you as an ENTj or ESTj are basing that on the content of what you say, not by the fact that you've come to a firm decision about your type.
    But they don't see what I don't say which is very significant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Contemplating, or having a contemplative side, doesn't make you a P. I think the people who see you as an ENTj or ESTj are basing that on the content of what you say, not by the fact that you've come to a firm decision about your type.
    But they don't see what I don't say which is very significant.
    It's how you say things that's most telling. Not what you do or don't say.
    NiTe | Socionix

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah

    It's how you say things that's most telling. Not what you do or don't say.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    Ding ding! Yes, this is why I "appear" ENTj.
    That's all that counts really, what IS THERE. Or, rather, that's all we can base ourselves on.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    what is with all of the self type re-evaluation as of late? this makes 4 entj's (not including joy who thinks she's one) who have doubts about their type.
    lol

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    It's because people are starting to get a better understanding of functions The house of cards of socionics intertype relations has fallen.

    They are not as commonly mistaking Se or Ti for Te. And with Steve, he's Te, but his type re-evaluation had nothing to do with other people.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    "better understanding of functions" often actually means fretting over why i do or do not share similar attributes described within the function description i just read
    lol

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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah

    It's how you say things that's most telling. Not what you do or don't say.
    +1
    Because my extroverted function is judging (Te), in MBTI I would be a "J". But Socionics says otherwise. Socionics says that whether your first function is a judging or perceiving type is what makes you j/p, and whether it's extroverted or introverted doesn't matter. Since I favor perception as a primary function, I'm therefore a P in socionics, even though my extroverted function is a judging one and I "appear" judging.

    NiTe in Socionics = INTp
    NiTe in MBTI = INTJ

    This is a Socionics site though, so.......
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
    16 years of bliss in an Activity relationship

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiuxiu
    what is with all of the self type re-evaluation as of late? this makes 4 entj's (not including joy who thinks she's one) who have doubts about their type.
    Mine are not "doubts", I changed the type definitively.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    really? so, that's it? you're estp now? i so called your non-entjness like 7 months ago.
    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiuxiu
    really? so, that's it? you're estp now? i so called your non-entjness like 7 months ago.
    haha ok you were right, but you got one letter wrong
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    bah
    lol

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