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Thread: Enneagram 4 and imitating other people?

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    Default Enneagram 4 and imitating other people?

    Fours use introjection to avoid ordinariness and maintain a self image of being authentic. Positive introjection is an attempt to overcome the feeling of deficiency by seeking value from an idealized experience, work or relationship and internalizing this through the emotional center. This also leads to negative introjection: Fours tend blame themselves for whatever goes wrong in personal relationships. Their experience of loss or abandonment can take form inside as a self-rejecting voice (a negative introject) which leads to pervasive feelings of unworthiness.
    I found this paragraph in an article today (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ions-Fixations), but, more importantly, I learned the word "introjection"!.. It's something I've done my whole life and I'm so glad to find a word for it, since I've always felt like there was something off about me for doing it all the time.

    I've realized I've been caught in a cycle where I'll imitate people, then I'll feel abnormal, so I'll imitate differently subconsciously to feel normal.

    Oh gosh, I'm so glad there's a word for this!!!!!

    Could anyone whose e4 reply if they feel like they do a similar thing or if they have any sort of observations about links between identity and e4? Also, is my kind of introjection (where I'll imitate other people to the point where I can no longer see the difference between myself and said person) the introjection they're talking about? The reason I ask is because it doesn't seem like I've ever read this anywhere else in all the articles of enneagram I've seen all over the internet...

    Thanks!

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    Also, I have another question! I read somewhere that fours tend to get lost and define their identity through particular emotional states. Is this really true? For example, I'll sit and listen to Emilie Autumn all day in the basement, then I'll get lost in the feelings of the songs and say I'm like that particular song. It's hard to explain. It sounds like that could also be related to Constructivism. Would someone be able to help me distinguish between e4 vs constructivism in emotional states in relation to identity?

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    "Maintain a self image of being authentic"

    Oxymoron
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    I definitely introject, though not as much as I used to. in the past, specific feelings, qualities and archetypal experiences would all be anchored in a kind of phantasmatic space, to the point where I would literally end up prescribing daily experience.

    on a more basic level introjection makes it easy to see the patterns in the recurrences of specific states/experiences; it's like you always know how exactly something is a part of you, without being able to definitively say what you "are."

    now it's more peripheral, my identity is a little bit more stable. for example, I'll pick up on a certain portion of a psytrance track as embodying some archetypal mood I've experienced or deem desirable and siphon it; or I'll be listening to a song and see a picture associated with it, and attempt to make it more 'mine' that it is its own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Limitless View Post
    Could anyone whose e4 reply if they feel like they do a similar thing or if they have any sort of observations about links between identity and e4? Also, is my kind of introjection (where I'll imitate other people to the point where I can no longer see the difference between myself and said person) the introjection they're talking about? The reason I ask is because it doesn't seem like I've ever read this anywhere else in all the articles of enneagram I've seen all over the internet...
    I think identity and E4 is a tricky topic. I don't see it just as being about being "unique" or "authentic"; rather, the fantasy itself is taken as the real (which in itself isn't a deceptive leap) and it's assumed that reality should accord with it. a counterexample is how so 4s can be individualistically conformist, or how sp 4s can care less about a feeling of uniqueness, preferring instead to just do their own thing. the strength overall is how 4s can navigate the intrapsychic realm; the thing is that the fantasy in and of itself isn't the beacon of authenticity—it's not that fours need fantasy to feel authentic, but rather that they fall too deeply into fantasy when reality isn't 'authentic' enough. it's a counteractive way of anchoring things, not some facile way to feel special.

    Quote Originally Posted by Limitless View Post
    Also, I have another question! I read somewhere that fours tend to get lost and define their identity through particular emotional states. Is this really true? For example, I'll sit and listen to Emilie Autumn all day in the basement, then I'll get lost in the feelings of the songs and say I'm like that particular song. It's hard to explain. It sounds like that could also be related to Constructivism. Would someone be able to help me distinguish between e4 vs constructivism in emotional states in relation to identity?
    this is definitely true for me. I pretty much have a set series of emotional states that correlate to various archetypal trends which in some way anchor me; then there's a diverse array on the periphery that comes and goes. I recall a xEI e4 girl talking about how sometimes she would have to pull over if a powerful song came on when she was driving. it's two sided: on the one hand, emotional states diversify and enhance the legitimate elements of a 4's identity; on the other hand, they can be 'all they have'.

    constructivism is more about attaining and maintaining a specific emotional state, finding a kind of externalized regularity; the e4 emotional state identification is more fluid, amorphous, and evanescent, like they never fully capture what they aim at.
    Last edited by strrrng; 02-19-2015 at 01:12 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limitless View Post
    Also, I have another question! I read somewhere that fours tend to get lost and define their identity through particular emotional states. Is this really true? For example, I'll sit and listen to Emilie Autumn all day in the basement, then I'll get lost in the feelings of the songs and say I'm like that particular song. It's hard to explain. It sounds like that could also be related to Constructivism. Would someone be able to help me distinguish between e4 vs constructivism in emotional states in relation to identity?
    Emilie Autumn When I listen to music I often find a song will express exactly what I am feeling, out into the world. I may post it so that others might hear it too but I realize that they probably have no clue what is really going on inside me and why I chose the song I did. Music is like an extension of me and I am not thinking about the person who wrote it or who performs it, usually, just the music has a life of it's own and somehow it found it's way to me and I feel the synergy that is generated in that moment that can only be completely experienced by me. Another person might have their own synergy and it might be similar to mine but it isn't mine. Not sure if I said this the way I wanted but I will leave it as is, for now.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Wow, this is so interesting!!! It's really nice you're able to relate, or at least in a similar way!

    What @Aylen said about synergy was really interesting to me. I relate fairly similarly, but, for me, when I listen to music, I listen to music for the particular artist's overall vibes or energy (Like we were talking about earlier! ) and find it particularly satisfying when I'm able to listen to an artist who reflects my perception of the external world or my intrapersonal world or whatever at the particular moment. Sometimes (and I related to @strrrng on this... like, exactly.) it's not just for emotional expression (although a lot of times I do that, too.), but I'll listen to an artist for fun. It's weird, but I really enjoy, more than anything else almost, feeling their overall persona and pretending to feel what they feel and think like they think and even talk like they talk. And I DO prescribe it to my overall day. It's so great knowing other people are similar in some way!

    I went through a time in my life where I had this red shirt I would wear for a local gym class and I would wear it every session. The gym was also red, and so I started, for the first time, generating an overall persona of my ownÖ That year, my persona became red. Then I started seeing other people in colors and describing other people by their particular colors. The really weird thing was, Iíve told people what color I thought they were, and they told me they got that color when they took a color personality test! I thought that was so cool. I donít actually see myself as a particular color anymore, but Iíve come to view myself (actually through realizing what I described in the post I made earlier that you replied to) as all the colors. Iím sort of like a color master. And I can use all the colors at my command to evoke a particular emotion in other people for my art. I sort of feel like itís a gift! Would you know if there is any particular reason Iím like this? Iíve always wondered if itís a disorder. But Iím starting to feel like itís related to type based on these replies.

    This also relates to the way I listen to music. Like earlier today, and most mornings, I listen to tracks off of Fiona Appleís ďThe Idler WheelĒ, just because itís so perfect for mornings for me And then, later in the afternoon, Iíll transition over to one of her other three albums if Iím in a particular mood. Like, if Iím feeling really sad, Iíll listen to Tidal since the cover's blue, but if Iím really crazed, Iíll listen to When the Pawn, and when Iím in a really whimsical mood, Iíll listen to Extraordinary Machine. Sorry, I'm really into her music as you can probably guess... Itís weird, but hey, it's also really good!

    Also, I should add I feel that sort of vibe with several instruments, too, and it's actually why I learned the Violin. I loved the vibe of it! And another interesting thing, I actually tried two years later to literally relive that first red year, but it failed horribly, because I no longer was able to feel like it was just there. It's only been since last year where I've started realizing I can channel this into my art and even school stuff. Like for example, my history notebook and binder are all brownish gold since that's what I relate to history, and science is green. But isn't that how most people see it? I always thought so..

    (@Applejacks, you might find this post interesting, since it sort of relates to what we were talking about earlier on and I know you're really into music and stuff .)
    Last edited by Limitless; 02-19-2015 at 03:38 AM.

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    @Limitless

    Your enthusiasm is contagious!

    I am just going to throw some options out there.

    http://neurowiki2014.wikidot.com/ind...al-synesthesia

    http://simonarich.com/seeing-auras


    Synesthesia and Seeing Auras

    Posted on February 6, 2013 in My Brain, Research | 2 comments

    I must be crazy.

    Ok, that was last week. This week, Iím a little less insane. As it turns out, the colors Iíve seen projected around people (and also associated in my mindís eye) since a very young age may be related to my intense Emotion->Color (also described as Personality->Color) synesthesia, and Iím not alone. Other synesthetes have reported seeing them as well.

    Auras appear as halos, or soft light, around an individualís form. The location of the light seems to vary depending on the person, but most report the brightest light around the head and shoulders.

    History interprets auras as phenomenon experienced only by those with a 6th sense (and maybe this is just that), or a high spirituality. Itís currently unclear as to who can see them, and why, but science is catching up. Studies have indicated that every living creature emits energy, and that energy can be viewed by some ultra-sensitive people.

    To be clear, I only seem to project colors around people that I highly respect, donít know as well, or have an affinity for. Iíve noticed brighter lights around people who seem to radiate balance, or an even amount of positive vs. negative emotions.

    As you may have guessed, my close family and friends donít show very bright or obvious colors. I know them very well (weíre extremely in sync), so for them, I have more of an associated feeling of color vs. projected. For example, my middle daughter always feels very pink to me. My dog feels very brown. Itís a warm brown, like soft leather or suede, almost texture-like.

    As odd as it may be, and as uncomfortable as I may feel talking about it, I have to admit that Iíve relied on these auras to lead me in the right direction for much of my life. Iíve opted to avoid certain people or places, and I even chose my current job as a result of this sense.

    At the same time, it has its drawbacks. I avoid some social situations because a crowded room of people can be very uncomfortable. Iíve also noticed that some auras are inviting but go against my instincts. Iím not sure why I feel attracted to some auras, but I am Ė even when the people emitting those auras are obviously bad news.
    Who knows why some things happen in life? Thereís so much that we donít understand, and this ability to convert emotion into color and then project that outward is just one of them. With so many riddles left to solve, is it possible that maybe (just maybe) thereís magic in this world after all? Iíd like to think so.
    Lots of readers contacted me about this post! For those of you with questions, Iíve written a follow up Q&A.

    Further reading:

    Perceptions of Aura Caused by Emotional Synesthesia Ė Softpedia
    Synsethesia May Explain Healerís Claims of Seeing Peopleís ĎAuraí Ė Science Daily
    It runs in my family and I have a mild form that is different from what you describe. I am not sure if it is type related, other than, perhaps, an overly developed function. There is another thread somewhere, on Ni, kinda related to this subject. From what I read in your post, I want to connect it to Si.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    I had deleted the original post and moved to my blog but since it is kind of relevant I will post it here.


    Originally Posted by Aylen
    Recently I have been doing a lot of energy type work on myself and I have started to pay way more attention to how people's energy, certain sounds they make, words they say, have a strange influence on me. A certain tone can instantly cause a response in my body or my mind ( invoke a different aspect of me). I am pretty sure I have noticed this happening over the years, due to a mild form of "Synesthesia", but never truly made the connection to how susceptible I can be to some type of "classical conditioning". I am not really saying this is a bad thing but it is helpful for me to notice and make more conscious choices. In some case it is really a good thing. hmm, yeah.

    I have a strange link between, sound, touch and taste that I don't speak much about because I don't want people trying to experiment on me. It is not something I am going to share, in most situations, even if someone were to stumble upon the combination and activate my, um, condition.

    I have also been told that I am "very compliant" while I am asleep. I can be told what to do and asked questions that I will answer, instantaneously, without being conscious at the time and no memory of it when I wake.

    Having this input from others is making me want to find a way to be more aware of what is effecting me, how it is effecting me, and why I respond the way I do.

    If I am going to respond to certain things like I'm Pavlov's dog I want to know why!!! Not even sure why I am posting this because I am pretty sure the only way I am going to find the answers is to keep doing what I have been doing and exploring deeper within myself.

    Looking back I can see this as a lifelong pattern and being aware of it may be the key to explaining why my life has taken the path it has. This should probably be in my blog. I will see how I feel about it later.

    Edit: This is all probably connected to my ability to go into a trance-like state which seems to be a form of self-hypnosis.








    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    I’ve actually come across the aura’s thing, but I think it’s different, because it (the color)’s not naturally there… It’s like I’m associating, not seeing… But in a way I am because I’m connecting them all and saying this color is related to this emotion and this sensation is related to this color.
    I actually really want to know if this would be related to functions. If you look up EJ arendee (its where I first learned all this stuff, until he stopped making videos. RIP Arendee. Hey, it rhymes ) He has a video where he relates the functions to making art and it’s really interesting. It sounds like its related to Se, but I haven’t been able to find anything else to back it up. My first guess though was actually Si. We should start a thread on art and functions!
    In case you’re interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCGSDHMMneY
    Oh man. I’m actually such a weirdo deep down… heh like what is even up with me?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limitless View Post
    I’ve actually come across the aura’s thing, but I think it’s different, because it (the color)’s not naturally there… It’s like I’m associating, not seeing… But in a way I am because I’m connecting them all and saying this color is related to this emotion and this sensation is related to this color.
    I actually really want to know if this would be related to functions. If you look up EJ arendee (its where I first learned all this stuff, until he stopped making videos. RIP Arendee. Hey, it rhymes ) He has a video where he relates the functions to making art and it’s really interesting. It sounds like its related to Se, but I haven’t been able to find anything else to back it up. My first guess though was actually Si. We should start a thread on art and functions!
    In case you’re interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCGSDHMMneY
    Oh man. I’m actually such a weirdo deep down… heh like what is even up with me?!
    Not funny! I'm a weirdo too!



    An alternate perception might be: "Hey, I'm a weirdo deep down inside. What's up with the rest of you?'

    Edit: I will see if I can find that Ni post.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Not funny! I'm a weirdo too!



    An alternate perception might be: "Hey, I'm a weirdo deep down inside. What's up with the rest of you?'

    Edit: I will see if I can find that Ni post.
    I do feel like "weird" people are just being more honest.. And that maes them more interesting. I know I'm interesting, but the thing is, Im aware it causes a very strong reaction to whoever else I interact with they either like me or I just don't be myself around them and they'll never know me for who I really am.

    i actually believed for a while I was mbti Isfp because I thought it would be Fi Se. Could it be related to Fi?

    Actually, nvm I don't think it's related to CFs since normally people aren't like this. It's probably just how I'm wired.. But I've always wondered why it's like that, so maybe its still related to synthesia?
    Last edited by Limitless; 02-19-2015 at 05:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limitless View Post
    I do feel like "weird" people are just being more honest.. And that maes them more interesting. I know I'm interesting, but the thing is, Im aware it causes a very strong reaction to whoever else I interact with they either like me or I just don't be myself around them and they'll never know me for who I really am.

    i actually believed for a while I was mbti Isfp because I thought it would be Fi Se. Could it be related to Fi?

    Actually, nvm I don't think it's related to CFs since normally people aren't like this. It's probably just how I'm wired.. But I've always wondered why it's like that, so maybe its still related to synthesia?
    Check this thread out:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-describing-Ni

    I guess I had already connected this kind of thing to Ni and Se (in myself) before. hah I posted about seeing the world through a "red filter" when I was a kid and found it interesting since you also could relate to red.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Implications for development of synesthesia

    The concept of ideasthesia bears implications for understanding how synesthesia develops in children. Synesthetic children may associate concrete sensory-like experiences primarily to the abstract concepts that they have otherwise difficulties dealing with.[14] Synesthesia may thus be used as a cognitive tool to cope with the abstractness of the learning materials imposed by the educational system (referred to also as a semantic vacuum). This hypothesis explains why the most common inducers in synesthesia are graphemes and time units— both relating to the first truly abstract ideas that a child needs to master.


    Ideasthesia as a theory of qualia

    The concept of ideasthesia bears implications for the mystery of how conscious experiences (or qualia) can emerge within a physical system e.g., the redness of color red. This question is also known as the hard problem of consciousness.[15][16] Understanding perception as ideasthesia suggests that the phenomenal experiences evoked by a stimulus are tightly related to the process of categorizing that stimulus and understanding its meaning for the perceiver. That is, experience is created by the process of activating theconcept of that stimulus. Therefore, the origin of phenomenal conscious experiences should be sought in the mechanisms responsible for extracting the semantics of the surrounding world, including extraction of the meaning and the categorization of stimuli.[14]
    @Limitless you got me about all this. I find it fascinating. Please keep sharing your experiences 'cause this is the kind of stuff that I love to explore.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Limitless View Post
    I do feel like "weird" people are just being more honest.. And that maes them more interesting. I know I'm interesting, but the thing is, Im aware it causes a very strong reaction to whoever else I interact with they either like me or I just don't be myself around them and they'll never know me for who I really am.

    i actually believed for a while I was mbti Isfp because I thought it would be Fi Se. Could it be related to Fi?

    Actually, nvm I don't think it's related to CFs since normally people aren't like this. It's probably just how I'm wired.. But I've always wondered why it's like that, so maybe its still related to synthesia?
    You may feel weird and unique but you are not alone. As a four it is often hard for me to view some people as unique. I know they are but they don't have the weird component or something, which is one of the reasons I don't usually want to be seen like anyone else. I have a hard time seeing how someone else can really relate to me even when I am relating to them. In my head I am thinking there is no way they can see themselves in me. hahah

    For example @strrrng is very relatable to for me and he posts what I am "knowing" sometimes and I understand the essence of what he writes but he seems to have a higher intellectual capacity than me when he explains stuff. This is hard to explain. I don't think he is more intelligent than me. It is just different. He feels like the male essence of what IEI is to me. Like some kind of counterpart. I relate to you as well and that is why I wanted to be careful in offering impressions on your type. I feel like this is something that will come to you naturally, in time. One thing you said made me think that you may be an sx/sp. You said people have strong reactions to you. This is how people are with me too. Sometimes they are drawn to me on some deep level that I can't even connect to or they are repelled by my actions. It's not so much a love me or hate me thing. It can be more like they are intrigued and drawn or they will completely ignore me. This doesn't really bother me so much.

    I had a website up for years and would get random people emailing me to say how they felt a spiritual connection to me. Sometimes I felt it too and would correspond with them for awhile but some emails I never returned because I just couldn't feel what they felt. There were a couple people who wrote to me like I was some kind of goddess and that kind of thing made me think they might just be weirder than me. hahah

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    I LOVE how we’re able to talk about this!


    As far as the colors thing goes, and how I described my whole year as red, it’s like I feel like I’m still sort of stuck in that year. So basically, what happened was, 6th grade I was miserable (like, actually depressed. It’s funny, because I almost still feel like that year was more miserable than most people who are suicidal feel like. And I look at that first post I posted, where I was complaining, but it doesn’t really capture the essence of how miserable I really was.) Anyways, I almost felt like I was re-birthed for a couple months around 7th grade, since that was the year I developed the whole thing with the color red, and it was also the first time I made a friend. He was really special to me, although I think he probably could have cared less about me and I even knew it then. (That’s why I relate to Lana Del Rey, I listen to her songs whenever I think of my friend. It sounds really weird since we were both guys, but it really isn’t like that in my mind I promise Lol)


    But it’s really weird, because the next year was a terrible year for me. Like, I used to spend the whole day cleaning up other people’s dishes and I would literally wait a half an hour just to clean up the shower when other people got out of it. I cleaned the whole house, and it always had to be that way… It was terrible. I lost all the friend, as a result. He would call, and I would get really anxious leaving the house when it was such a mess… It was really weird. And when he would come over, I used to like disguise my need for things to be clean by tidying the pillows and stuff when he wasn’t looking.


    I promise, though, I’m better now. Haha… Sort of. I feel like I have never really moved on though from seventh grade. It’s such a burden. It’s like I died and I’ll never be alive again. And that’s why I tried reliving it in 9th grade. End of 8th grade, I started feeling like I had to relive 7th grade again, because I believed in my mind that the experience didn’t end perfectly, and so as a result I felt like I had to relive it but make it end perfectly this time. So, what I would do, is I would have this little red hat that I would subtly wear everywhere, to make me feel like I was reliving it. But I sort of felt empty… And anyways, the hormones hit and it all went downhill from there. Lol, I actually cried on my 13th birthday because I knew how terrible the teens would be. I actually believed that it would be alright, though, if I could just find a way to label myself as a child until 15 and then when I turned 16 I would label myself basically a mature young man. Not really how it turned out, but that’s alright, I suppose…


    Sorry I know it’s not related to the thread and might seem kind of boring to other people, but - you know - I saw this
    Please keep sharing your experiences 'cause this is the kind of stuff that I love to explore.
    and figured I might as well



    Anyways, the point is, reliving it didn’t work. So now, I still feel like I’ve never really been alive since then. But here’s the – realllyyy – good part. I’ve actually, since last summer, when I left home for the first time to work in NY, been feeling like I’m no longer mastered by these color/emotional associations, but I’m able to learn how to develop them and use them for art. (I think I actually said I started doing this 2 years ago a couple posts ago, but I was wrong about that. I really started realizing how it’s holding me captive more over the summer. It’s like, I have to do something with it, or else I’ll fall into it naturally. I know it’s hard to believe, but it actually is like that! That’s also why I always want to be famous. I think I like the idea of using it for fun, and being acknowledged for my abilities.)


  16. #16
    Limitless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I had a website up for years and would get random people emailing me to say how they felt a spiritual connection to me. Sometimes I felt it too and would correspond with them for awhile but some emails I never returned because I just couldn't feel what they felt. There were a couple people who wrote to me like I was some kind of goddess and that kind of thing made me think they might just be weirder than me. hahah
    I’ve been going over in my mind the whole time thinking, “she probably thinks I’m weird, she probably thinks I’m weird!”… But it’s alright, since I feel like you understand how right now, I need a place to be myself, so this has been really nice. And if people dislike me on the forum, I guess it doesn’t really bother me… I liked how I was able to be honest from the start with that whole over the top complaining post, actually . (I swear, it actually WASN’T planned.)
    I was actually reading about the instinctual variants earlier on yesterday, and I realized I relate veryyy well with SX. I’m always very aware of the people I’m drawn to or relate to, how I come across to others (although, lets be honest… It probably doesn’t seem that way based on these ridiculously open posts.) and how someone reacts to particular things. For some reason (and this will sound ironic) I’ve always liked the concept of liking something. Hehh. I was wondering if I could be possibly SX/SO, because I was never really aware SP existed until I read about it. Actually… Maybe you could help explain that? It sort of feels like SP right now is basically having the natural reaction to develop a stockpile of materials to guard yourself, which is not me in that way at all. I like having materials, I think, but it’s not really like I’m trying to protect myself with them. How do you see SP in yourself? I sort of feel like I’m not actually SO blind spot, but I’m probably not SO first, because (Again, although it might not seem like it from these messy weirdo posts. Well maybe it does. You’ve probably picked up on it, but it depends on the reader…) I actually feel ashamed very easily. Like, all the time. I feel a little ashamed right now, actually for writing this. But I know I don’t HAVE to, as long as I can let myself be myself and trust that other people will like me on here as long as I’m able to be honest.
    I made a post about SX/SO vs SO/SX and found strrrings reply really helpful, in that it helped me sort of visualize the difference. I think based on his reply I might actually be SO/SX, but I’m not really sure.
    Also, I really do think I could actually be e4, because I’ve realized the most terrible thing that could happen to me would be for me to get to the end of my life and realize I never really liked myself. And a lot of my motivation is based on how I want to like myself and feel like I’m perfectly meeting my own ideals of how I’d like to come across to other people. But I know I’ll never be perfect now, because there’s no set standard. But that’s alright. I still strive to be a particular way, but I know that by not striving, I’m fulfilling my standards. This is e4, right? If not, I’m alright with that. I’d just like to figure out my real type. I have this sort of visual in my head where I’ll be able to label all my particular classifications, and then I’ll be able to transcribe it to a particular style in art. And I think I’m doing that, too, based on what I’ve talked about in relation to colors.

    Also: I'm assuming it's alright to keep posting on this particular thread, even if it's not related to the topic of imitating other people... Or um should I like move it to somewhere else??

  17. #17
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    I might have more to say in a bit for now I want to share that it was the end of 6th grade that I underwent some kind of strange, almost magical, transformation. Before that I was more in my head maybe. Lots of stuff that I won't go into now. I can relate to everything you just wrote. I was miserable and I did attempt suicide. I landed in the hospital for three weeks and when I got out I was a different person.

    Re: Housework: You brought this to mind. I personally never got stuck with housework but my IEI brother did and he had to do things the girls did not do and I hurt so much seeing him treated that way. Always cleaning up for others. Always the last in line. I would get angry on his behalf but it didn't help usually. I was the one who always refused to do what I was told and he tried that too but because he was a boy... I guess he was different from you because he didn't want to do it but in my mind I saw him when you wrote about cleaning. I have gotten stuck in obsessive compulsive behaviors myself too. If that is what you were doing so I understand on that level.

    Our dad, my stepdad, and other men in the family, would be so hard on him. I guess they didn't understand the way his mind worked but I did. I think they wanted to make a man out of him. All the girls (they were older) made him do housework and stuff. Making him into something he really wasn't meant to be. My stepdad would come to the girls and ask us to comfort him when he knew he had pushed him to far. Ok, enough of that. I was going on a tangent.

    I actually went to work in NYC in my late teens. I would not trade that experience for anything. hahah I felt like I was meant to be famous but I didn't want it bad enough so suffice it to say I was "almost famous". My need to withdraw was greater than my need to be "known". lol

    What I do now is practice what I call "magic" not like wiccan or anything. It is my own brand of magic that I started creating, probably as a toddler, but it is based on all my associations of imagery and patterns that I have integrated over the years. I am not a traditional artist but I am artistic. Someone once told me that I was an "energy artist" and that they never met someone who could direct energy like me before. I fell in love with the term and now think of myself as an "energy artist".

    Please don't worry about what anyone else thinks about our conversation. Feel free to follow your tangents and I will do the same. I enjoy this kind of interaction very much.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  18. #18
    Limitless's Avatar
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    I agree! I'm really glad we're able to talk

    Wow, I’m really sorry to hear about the suicide. That’s so terrible to hear I’m so glad you’re better now! (well, I suppose that’s assuming, but you seem better?)


    Actually, it’s really interesting, analyzing the psychology about why I would do the cleaning. It was related to how other people perceived me and my family, I think. I remember visiting other people’s houses and I thought, if I could get my house to be perfectly like theirs than people would think we’re cool. I actually believed that and as a result I was so held captive!
    And no one really knows about any hurt I’ve had, even. Like, the friend I have now talked to me about his testimony, and when I didn’t reply when he asked me what mine was (I was so antsy with the idea of being like “oh! lets all share stories and hold hands and compare who has the best sob story.), he replied by implying that he was assuming that I’d never had a problem in my life!!! I was so angry deep down. lol. Now, I look back like, what the heck, he’ll never know me… (Actually, have you ever heard “What If?” By Emilie autumn? That’s sooo exactly how I feel. It’s terrible because most people assume they’ll know all about you just by looking at you. But hey I do the same thing so whatever.)
    Anyways… yeah… Hah.. I would literally spend the whole day cleaning my whole four story house because I thought people would come over and get this idea we were all like modern and one big happy family. Actually, my mom used to tell me to stop cleaning, and I’d feel so ashamed but I couldn’t stop. Now I’m actually really lazy and hardly even put an ice cream bowl in the sink. It was actually partially genetic OCD I think, because several people in my Mom’s family have it. Now I just channel the impulses into other things that are less exhausting. I’ve really had such a hard time knowing how to do something that will really help make it go away, and I think this is partially actually because of my SP blindspot (maybe not).
    That’s so terrible to hear about your brother! I’m so glad you were able to help, though. It’s horrible being in a situation like that. I have to admit, I’m pretty feminine actually compared to a lot of boys, but that’s I’ve been really lucky to have parents who don’t really care or even think about gender roles in that way. I’m not effiment, because I don’t like girl things (actually, I’ve always been drawn to very gender neutral things like piano and Human Geography lol), but I’m kind of fragile and have a high pitched voice. And I cry a lot. Like.. this one time, I cried in front of the whole homeschooling class I was with. But it came across as really serious and somber, so it’s alright. They probably thought my friend died or something like that! I went on a retreat this weekend and I cried twice. No, I actually wept. I look back and laugh though, because it was only in front of the youth leaders and they know I’m not faring very well right now.
    What I do now is practice what I call "magic" not like wiccan or anything. It is my own brand of magic that I started creating, probably as a toddler, but it is based on all my associations of imagery and patterns that I have integrated over the years. I am not a traditional artist but I am artistic. Someone once told me that I was an "energy artist" and that they never met someone who could direct energy like me before. I fell in love with the term and now think of myself as an "energy artist".
    Oh gosh, this is really cool! Because, I can really relate. Like I’ve never really felt like a normal artist, because normal artists seem to do things related to how they’re actually feeling or for emotional expression, but, although I’m sort of like that, I’m more like I need to get all this creative energy association stuff out or I’ll end up in a weird color OCD rut again. Lol.

    And also, I must say I find it really cool but a little creepy how you also relate to me for exactly undergoing that similar 6th grade transformation. I almost wonder (I'm actually worriiedd) that your not actually real and all of this is just a part of my sub conscious. Its creepy feeling like it, but like Im scared Ill never really know wth i'm doing with all these people in this weird world and why do we live 100 years? Why aren't we like the elves?? why in the world do we have coniousness. It makes me absolutely terrified thinking about it but its really how it is.

    I'm curious, do you think there's any real basis to horoscope? I sort of related to pieces, which was unsettling since it's what Im supposed to relate to.
    Last edited by Limitless; 02-19-2015 at 11:17 PM.

  19. #19
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limitless View Post
    And also, I must say I find it really cool but a little creepy how you also relate to me for exactly undergoing that similar 6th grade transformation. I almost wonder (I'm actually worriiedd) that your not actually real and all of this is just a part of my sub conscious. Its creepy feeling like it, but like Im scared Ill never really know wth i'm doing with all these people in this weird world and why do we live 100 years? Why aren't we like the elves?? why in the world do we have coniousness. It makes me absolutely terrified thinking about it but its really how it is.

    I'm curious, do you think there's any real basis to horoscope? I sort of related to pieces, which was unsettling.
    More later on the rest but I want to assure you I am REAL. hahah I have had these thoughts myself. I went through a period of time wondering if I was in fact dead and that everything in my world was just a manifestation of my desires and fears. I no longer feel like I am dead but I still sort of see that the world consists of manifestations of my hopes, dreams. desires, and fears. Fears are not really an issue anymore. I face them and move on. I think my sp manifests more in life by it having always been easy for me, as far as material stuff, and I am not worried about security so much.I have an innate belief that those things will work themselves out one way or another. I have been homeless and penniless and did not have a care in the world because I knew I could use my sx to get what I wanted and needed. I just didn't call it "sx" then.

    By sx I mean an inner fire that propels me through this lifetime. hahah I am "so" last because the rest of the world is, like, on, my periphery. I can dip in and out of the pool of social but there is nothing in me that makes me feel that I want to be a part of social movements or interactions on an ongoing basis. In a room full of people I am more likely to feel unity on what I perceive as a higher level and there is this harmonious connection to the whole but I am still very aware of experiencing this from the inside and outside. I never really feel like I fit in as a human being. even when fully engaged with friends. but as soon as I take it to my happy place I feel like they are all part of me. After that I want to be left alone with perhaps that one person who makes me not want to be alone. Then I am all in. There is a saying, "in this world, but not of it". That is how I feel.

    I am all about the astrology. My blogs are back up and I have posted several of my charts and such, correlating some of it to my different personality type theories. It's all pretty interesting when I look at it as a whole and not the individual theories as being the complete story. People are too complex to fit into one personality type theory.

    I think you are a sx first 4 but so much more.

    Last edited by Aylen; 02-20-2015 at 12:17 AM. Reason: typo-fingers not coordinated with thoughts. lol

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  20. #20
    The sleeping beauty Velvet's Avatar
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    Isn't imitating/adapting to people = e3?
    Maybe it's your wing.

  21. #21
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    3s imitate an externality, with 4s it's pretty much unconscious. but yeah, it's probably more pronounced in 4w3s.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  22. #22
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    @Aylen I was playing on the keyboard tonight and I realized something really interesting!

    I realized, when I play individual notes, I see color. When I do anything, I can associate it with color. But only if I allow myself to make these particular associations... This is soo cool! I feel so blessed to be able to do this. It's like I already have the ability to feel out color, but I'm also able to do it selectively.

    When I was sitting there, I started playing and I realized I'm able to play a note just by hearing it. So, I wondered why. And I just let myself sit and play while wondering why. Then I drifted deeper until I realized I was all of a sudden seeing individual colors with every note!

    I think what happened was I probably up until now have been figuring life out and I've never really been able to master this until now because (let's be honest) growing ups all complicated. So I'd never really focus on my reactions to little things, I'd only focus on my association to bigger things, like using colors to express yearly vibes (like 7th grade = red) and stuff like that.

    Now, I've realized I can make these associations with whatever I'd like. I feel so gifted!!! And I'm not meaning to be like prideful, I'm just really happy that there is something good coming from my weird neurological make-up. And I think I've realized why I'm like this.

    I think something happened while I was but a wee little baby in the womb. I was probably exposed to several different types of chemicals that altered my neurological workings, and as a result I've always felt different from other people.

    That's another thing I've never really mentioned. I'm really sensitive. Like, really. When I first wake up, I have to be really careful about the way I get out of bed and dress myself, and it sounds sort of ridiculous, but if I don't do it perfectly, it'll make it really hard getting through that whole darn terrible miserable day! I don't normally talk about it, since it sounds really weird, but it's just naturally how it is for me. But now I kind of like feeling like there's something different about me in special, unique way!

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