Empathy Fi or Fe?
@Maritsa posted something that made me curious about this.
Originally Posted by Maritsa
The questions are really close together and it is easy to click the wrong one if you're not careful.
Your Empathy Quotient score was 61 out of a possible 80.
Scores above 30 are generally not indicitive of an Autism Spectrum disorder.
Higher scores indicate greater levels of empathy.
Last edited by Aylen; 02-14-2015 at 02:06 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Your Empathy Quotient score was 30 out of a possible 80.
Scores of 30 or less indicate a lack of empathy common in people with Autism or Asperger’s Syndrome.
Made me laugh, thanks
i think neither. Empathy is a human trait.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Maritsa answered me here if anyone is curious about her response.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1075104
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Fe is empathy in as much as one can expect from functions imo.
Take this example. Both my sister and I are visiting my father who is bed ridden at the hospital and on morphine for extreme pain. While I remain quiet and listen to my father attentively as he tells me "honey, I can't stand this pain any more, I don't know what's going to happen to me." I listen without any further emotional output or expectation than rubbing his shoulder and saying "I know dad, I'm working closely with the doctors to see what we can do." I provide reassurance and a breath of hope; my sister reacts and cries saying how she's feeling about dad being so bad. I feel bad too, but I don't get into emotional hysterics at least I don't let my dad see that as a proof of how I feel. I toughen up and I am that person's compress. I'm not there for my own proof of emotions. My sister tries to stir the pot and make him laugh or aggravate him by saying "we'll just cut your foot off…" and whatever any other shit she can say that will get him to get mad or react. I use my calming emotions to be a compress she uses hers to liven him up rattle him up.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Your Empathy Quotient score was 47 out of a possible 80.
Last edited by Aylen; 02-14-2015 at 04:59 PM. Reason: keeping conversation in context
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I got 71 out of 80
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
We don't understand each other.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I understand you just fine so speak for yourself. Not trying to be mean here. I read between the lines of most of what you say.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Then an eye roll is inappropriate. If you're thankful and understand me you can simply say, "thank you" or "thanks"
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Look at your score. I remember the questions asked clearly. Now look at what you say in response to me. I am doing the math now. Thank you.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
We don't understand each other. You can't stop to find out what's going on and you can't reasonably make out the sequence of events or my expectations from the events. Therefore, we don't have good communication because it's producing asymmetric results. Therefore insults fly as one party tries to bring the other to do and say what the other party expects in the meanwhile producing more insults. I can only say this is either activity relations or something that mimics activity between you and I.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Maritsa I think this is a wonderful thing.
It is interesting because i remember when I used to go on TC a little and you would always burst into tears or create a drama scene, your favourite target was Ashton. So please don't say you are a calm one or is your Fi malfunctioned?
I cried when Ashton was around because I tried hard to communicate my needs despite him cursing at me endlessly and how bad he used to make me feel. My bf has observed that the miscommunication created by myself and my activity relations brings me to rage, a state that is uncomfortable and out of the ordinary for me. He recently took steps in cutting a relations between myself an an activity who was using me and who resorted to insults to make me feel bad about who I was and what I was doing. I quickly returned to my calm and serene state and feel good now. Ashton and I have no place in one room together ever.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
and I am telling you that your assessment of what I understand is flat out wrong, Maritsa. Don't bring socionics into this unless you want to switch your self-typing to LSI. You just glossed over what I said about my dad and didn't understand a word of it. I understood what you said about your dad and your situation and I truly feel for you. Granted my dad is dead and yours is still alive but I put every ounce of energy I had into making his last days as comfortable and happy, as I could so don't tell me I don't understand. Whether or not that is Fi or Fe doesn't matter to me. You try to make Fe sound like it is the life of the party and wanting to pot stir and it isn't. I know how to be appropriate and rolling my eyes was the most appropriate reaction I could muster at that response you gave me.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
We respond very differently, emotionally as events happen. While you may remain unchanged to others. My emotions may change so much that it is a singular state. For example if I'm upset at what's going on with my dad, that state does not change while I interact with other people. I'm still upset state to you and everyone else. You may be so just in that person's interaction and not to others.
It's hard to change my emotional states. Only Logic can do it. Only my bf can when he sits next to me and says what is happening in the Te way. He'll say "you're upset about your father because you can't do anything."
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Is it possible for you to go OH WAIT I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN I AM WRONG. Maritsa you were crying and screaming and all sorts, so what you say about Fi not Crying or Not Screaming or Not Having Histrionics is nonesense. I think you just want to be right all the time which is a very unattractive quality regardless of type.
Words you're equating my reaction in two separate situations. Why do you want it to be all the same? If you find it unattractive then don't talk to me. I don't talk to people who have qualities that don't appeal to me. Why would I? You want to change me, go change yourself.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
It's not about liking you or disliking you, it's about you being consistent and not letting OTHER people think oh maybe I am Fe because Maritsa says Fi people don't act like this - except you are Fi and you do act like this.
I am empathetic, I am thinking about other people not getting the wrong idea about functions or wrong idea about their type. It's not just about you (person with highest empathy score in the world).
Fe and Fi are stated consistently in my signature. I am typically more empathetic than most other human beings. Period. No human being is without all emotions and what situations bring things about doesn't make them that person. You are wrong for thinking that and wrong for coining me based on one situation that you observed.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
the conflict in this thread is a pretty good example of how Fe and Fi respectively empathize...
4w3-5w6-8w7
Care to elaborate? I just see it as a personal conflict between alyen and maritsa ...
In my view Fi is empathetic if they know the feeling very well ('oh, I have been through that and I know etc.') and if the feeling they 'should' empathize with is authentic (not too dramatic and not oriented towards getting sympathy, but pure and contained). Ah and also Fi is decidedly more empathetic in close relationships and with people they like. Fe would be more like 'you should be empathetic when someone is sick' etc. and act on that regardless of the personal stuff someone feels in a given situation.
That's the most I can generalize about Fi vs Fe and empathy. Otherwise I agree empathy is a human trait and frequently highly dependent on context.
Since i've been in this thread - you are getting some responses lol.
My take on it from a functional POV is this:
As Fi is subjective it is more concerned with how *it* feels, to do OK with an Fi type you have to correspond with how they feel about things then they extend empathy.
As Fe is external it is more inclined to put on the other persons shoes so to speak, it looks at external reasons/feelings rather than the personal take on the ethical situation.
For me Maritsa is demonstrating an Fi approach in how I explained it.
I think I am starting to understand a bit more the difference between Fi and Fe. I can and do push my personal feelings aside when I know they will not be helpful to anyone involved. I can smile and laugh while crying inside but my personal feelings don't stop me from feeling exactly what another is feeling. It doesn't even depend on my past experiences. I can empathize with people who are experiencing things I have never lived through. I remember the Tsunami that killed so many. I was torn up for months after that. Had nightmares about Tsunamis, days before it happened, then months after. But there are situations for example, terrorist killing, where I am more objective and can sort of empathize with both sides so I have to push my personal feelings aside and just try to see it objectively. Except for beheadings, those really dig into my psyche and bother me more than a bombing would. I know it may sound irrational but that's how it is. I want to say more here but not sure what, yet. :/
Edit: Re: Bombing vs beheadings. I thought about why I feel the way I do about these situations. In a bombing people don't see it coming, usually, and that is preferable to me than a beheading, where you know it's coming and it's slow and painful at the same time. I imagine it seems like an eternity before the person actually loses consciousness. *shivers*
Logically I understand that bombings are traumatic to those involved but the level of psychological suffering inflicted upon them beforehand seems far less horrible to me somehow.
Last edited by Aylen; 02-14-2015 at 06:57 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I generally agree with your generalization. basically the way I see this thread proceeding, is with aylen operating in a more direct, emotionally tactile way ('I'm reading between the lines,' 'I understand what you're saying'), almost implying a kind of emotional common ground, or at least some frame of reference which makes the various forms of expression if not fully understandable at least somewhat coherent. this is how Fe "empathizes": emotion is seen as objective, collective, there's always some kind of middle-ground that can grant both parties access to a certain level of insight. maritsa, on the contrary, is insisting on the singularity and self-containment by of her sentiments, completely to the exclusion of anything aylen is suggesting. Fi in some sense has more integrity in this way, since it's strictly about what resonates, but is also more shortsighted/limited... basic insight and a kind of silent empathy trump common understanding.
also, aylen as an IEI is being a little bit more passive and courteous -- an Fe-dominant would be more aggressive and demonstrate a similar but different kind of emotional starkness as an Fi-dominant (whereas an Fi-creative would be slightly more like an Fe-creative but still more self-contained).
yeah, I basically see Fe empathizing via a context established by Ti, and Fi using Te as a kind of barometer for its inner sentiments.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Here is a quote from Psycology today.
Because we can't get into each other's minds, it is hard to know the level of empathy that a person is able to experience. But outward behavior and words usually reflect the heart - hence the prosocial behavior in the quote above. Some might call the behavior and words Fe. In my experience, my EII friends have pretty good Fe (prosocial or helping behaviors) even in situations where their kindness is not being reciprocated. They usually try to see both sides of situations which you would expect of an Ne valuing person.Empathy is the experience of*understanding*another person's condition from their perspective. You place yourself in their shoes and feel what they are feeling. Empathy is known to increase prosocial (helping) behaviors.*
I myself have not experienced that kind of prosocial behavior from @Maritsa. Even though a forum isn't always the best place for perfect understanding, it is pretty hard not to misunderstand when someone calls your ideas "outlandish," as she called mine in a recent thread. And it is pretty hard not to feel hurt when you are an EIE and your logic is being called into question in that way. So I am having a little trouble seeing the empathy in that situation.
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k
I got 74 out of 80. No wonder I can create life long bonds with someone even after just meeting.
Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 07-12-2015 at 08:15 AM.
To understand what a person is experiencing from their frame of reference, you probably have to put aside your own frame first. To understand you probably need more Information, so gathering more Information about the situation is a good way to go. It's better to remain neutral and open. Neutral so that you don't mix your own stuff in and open to not miss anything by judging things too soon. People usually are more cooperative and tell things, when they sense that you can help and that it's really about understanding them. I also think people trust persons more, who have shown that they can handle a situation (and show level headedness and understanding) but also remain neutral (are not biased by personal things etc.). Stuff is more complex irl. I know that, but what I want to say without writing a wall of text is, that I don't see how any of this could be limited by one function or encompassed by one function so that's the reason why I don't tie empathy to any function.Wikipedia: Empathy is the capacity to understand what another person is experiencing from within the other person's frame of reference, ie, the capacity to place oneself in another's shoes.
Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 04-05-2015 at 07:53 PM. Reason: spelling
My psychic friend accused me of being an Empath. She said I'm observant like a wolf *howls* I'm just not into theatrics or dramatic displays of emotion. It's just too damn unmanly*places stein down on table* Whether its Fi or Fe, it's draining to be around negative emotions. I like atmospheric pleasantness. I try and avoid people who always seem to be in a bad mood. Some I try and cheer up a little, but even some of those get more agitated for you trying, so I've learned to just keep an emotional distance from most people. I'll just tell them to let me know if they need anything.
You're not in my frame of reference. Ever and now never will be
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Why is that? I always try to appreciate explanations.
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k
Seems you have gotten the banhammer of her heart. You are still welcome in mine though. Happyday.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Thank you, Friend.Seems you have gotten the banhammer of her heart. You are still welcome in mine though. Happy
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k
"Your Empathy Quotient score was 31 out of a possible 80.
Scores above 30 are generally not indicitive of an Autism Spectrum disorder.
Higher scores indicate greater levels of empathy."
I got 39. I actually consider myself to have pretty good Fi and empathy as well, though it has been something I have had to work on.
Also I think it is not necessarily a correlation coefficient being judged between Fi and Fe. It just manifests itself in different ways. For example, I would say Fi has more to do with empathy based on individuals as opposed to group empathy and Fe would be the opposite. or Asis la vida.
There was a time when I could not separate my feelings/emotions from other people. Like I didn't know that some of the stuff I was feeling was being imposed on me by others but only 'cause I allowed it to penetrate. This was very hard for me to handle as a child. I had a pretty good mentor who taught me how to differentiate (by questioning) my emotions from those of other people. I walk into a store and I am bombarded by the energy of other people. Like I can look at them and if they are angry I start to feel anger or aggressiveness build inside me. If they are being silly and playful I can emotionally feel it even though I am not part of it. It is like rapid emotional mood swings if I don't put this invisible shield around myself. It is part of the reason I can be such a recluse. I even seclude myself from others in my house just so their moods don't affect me. It is not easy keeping up a shield and unless I actively go in and change their moods, which I do sometimes when I had enough, I will feel overwhelmed. I will make a silly joke in the middle of an argument just to ease the tension that is building up in me. Seems to work because everyone starts laughing and then it is like they were never even feeling *fill in the blank* at all.
FTR: I live with all betas. An LSI and an IEI. They seclude themselves too so it isn't so bad.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
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