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Thread: Type and writing papers

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    Default Type and writing papers

    I was wondering about how different types would approach writing papers and their attitudes towards it. I'm an INTj I find writing papers an arduous task and even though I usually end up doing very well on them, I procrastinate and end up working at the last minute to meet the deadline. I think part of my frustration stems from my wanting to find the perfect way to word something- everything must be accurate and logically sound. I find that I'm good at the analysis part and I easily come up with topics and ideas (which a lot find the hardest part) but then I'll agonize to death over how to sequence my thoughts, how to transition smoothly from one point to another, how to best word something, and what information I've collected should actually go in the paper. I'll also add that when doing a research paper, I end up collecting way more information than I really need and sometimes I have trouble trimming it down so it doesn't exceed the word or page limit. I know many others have the opposite problem: They have trouble making it long enough. Also, if I'm not careful, I'll get too wordy and overexplain. Its just that I want to make sure my ideas are clearly understood.

    I also get frustrated when the teacher wants us to submit an outline before submitting the final draft. For me, by the time I have a decent outline, the paper is practically written. I know what I want to say and what message I'm trying to get out but until I sift through the thoughts and the information I've collected, I don't really know for sure how its all going to flow until I start writing stuff down and then reading it back to myself to see if it looks right and sounds right.

    I also find I have to do the introduction last for the same reason because the introduction pretty much sums what's in the body.

    Is the above a common pattern among INTjs or is it just a quirk I have? I'd be interested in how the other types go about writing papers, particularly INTps, my quasi-identical.

    I also read that books by your quasi-identical are impossible to read. I don't really find anything impossible but there are certain writing styles I find frustrating to read and others easy. Do you have samples of INTj and INTp writings I could look at and cross compare?

    Laura, INTj
    (I'm sure this post was way too wordy, had a bunch of run-on sentences and could have been worded better )

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    I procastinate madly on papers. After I get started, I constantly take breaks, most of them longer than the time it actually takes to complete the paper itself. For me, the difficulty isn't finding the right words and filtering the information, but actually sitting down and forcing myself to write about something I couldn't care less about. Also, I tend to make my papers too light-hearted and casual. Thank you, !

    And with the Quasi-Identical thing, I always have to read notes and emails by my mom (ESTj), and most of it's a bunch of gibberish. She probably thinks the same thing for me, but whenever I read something of hers, it's all formal and using PhD level vocab.

    PS: My name is Laura too.
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    I always write the paper before the outline, and I always write the most during the last minute.

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    I don't really mind writing, even if it's for school(I like it at home for myslef as a form of expression). However, if I had a choice between writing and math of any sorts you wouldn't catch me dead choosing math. The only time it gets to me is when the assignment allows virtually no crativity. I guess you could say I don;t really care for report-like assignments. The main thing that I usually get off on papers is mispellings I missed, or, when we have to write formally, I forget and use contractions even though I've been constantly warned agains it. About the procrastination, I procrastinate on everything..... math, LA, regardless. Though, following in suit with the last thing I said, I'll do the LA first if I have both for HW (best for last my ass).

    Also, I'm curious as to where you heard it's difficult to read books by your quasi-identical... I have doubt in me that it would be difficult for me to read an INFJ book. Just wondering.

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    Default Re: Type and writing papers

    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian
    Is the above a common pattern among INTjs or is it just a quirk I have?
    My paper-writing process is very similar to yours. Though, at some point, I always get frustrated and go into a long tirade (to any unfortunate person who has wandered into earshot) questioning the purpose of the paper. (i.e. "Why do I have to write this?", "I don't need to prove myself to these people.", etc. )
    This is one of the reasons I did not go to college.
    TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
    "I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible

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    Personally, I'm an INFJ, and writing papers are a piece of cake--Not that I'm trying to brag or anything. I find that it's much easier for me to communicate on paper than it is sometimes to tell people how I truly feel face-to-face. I can type a 3-4 page paper while multi-tasking in roughly 45 minutes. What do you guys think?

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    Edited for gayness.

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    my writing has always gone between getting into a writing zone and letting a rather nice piece of writing flow out, or spending three hours writing, editing, deleting, writing, editing, deleting, etc. the first paragraph. i'm ILE.

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    Transigent, I'm still not clear on the quasi-identical thing you talk about. Some actual examples of INTj and INTp writing passages might be helpful in clarifying this difference. I see myself using both the INTj and INTp styles you mention in my writing. I'm also wondering how INTps would get frustrated by INTj writing.

    Laura, INTj

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    Meh. I always try and maximize the time put/grades received. There's a level where you work alot more for only a small increase in grades. You have to find that sweet spot of efficiency.



    Phase 0: Research phase - read around, gather information - take notes
    Phase 1: Brainstorm; I just brainstorm and think of all the possible interpretations/ideas possible from what I've collected.
    Phase 2: Selection, I scrap the weakest points and keep the strongest. I then try and find examples, explanations, facts that will support my viewpoint as much as possible and will make me the most convincing possible. I "envision" the final product, how it would be "ideally" and this becomes my goal.
    Phase 3: Organization - I make a plan of the structure I'm going to use in my paper. When I'm going to talk about such and such point, etc.
    Phase 4: Execution - I write everything in one go. This enables a nice flow of ideas
    Phase 5: Verification. I do a quick verification of the "details"; wording, spelling, grammar. If worst comes to worst and I have no time, usually I drop the refinement as this I have found has only a marginal impact on your grade.

    For essays, I write them through a standard structure. Introduction => Thesis => Antithesis => Synthesis => Conclusion. Everything is logically subdivided. I try to find 3 strong arguments for each side.

    I hate losing time on sticky details and refinement. I'm very good at cutting through all the details and only preserving what's essential. I have no patience to refine things to "perfection" - I just want efficiency. All my grades throughout uni using this method were between B- and A+.
    ENTj - intuitive subtype - 8w9, sp/sx

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    Edited for gayness.

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    For me I just do what I feeling doing first when writing papers. If do out line, I do outline. Vice versa.

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    About the quasi-identical thing...

    I don't know if it is the structure of the sentences themselves that make a quasi-identical's work difficult to read, rather it is the topics and opinions they choose to discuss.

    For example, lets use INTj and INTp.

    The INTp will write about predictions, hypotheticals, foresight, etc. with an emphasis on facts, knowledge, methods, practicality, etc.

    The INTj is not about intuitive foresight, but wants logical connections and the various ways and alternatives that can be used to maximize this knowlege.

    When reading INTp stuff, the creative for the INTj is activated to provide alternatives that can be used in every one of the INTp's predictions. (INTj thinks: "This guy just doesn't see the big picture")

    The facts, knowlege, and practical methods of the INTp are grating on the INTj's psyche, for the INTj simply needs to know how all these things follow from one another, and the benifits that each piece of information provides. (INTj gets frustrated from having to use Ti creatively for each and every fact.)

    In otherwords, the INTp will use facts to prove his predictions of bad events, but the INTj will use alternatives that show that these bad events are actually surmountable, explaining it with logical proofs.

    Well, shouldn't an ENTj's stuff be just as hard to read for an INTj?

    Maybe, but the facts for an ENTj have more importance to the things that they may write about. Instead of having to counter 100's of different randomly applied facts with his Ti, the INTj may only need to show the possible inaplicability of a select key few of them. (That is, an ENTj's argument is more likely to be based on one or two key facts which are quickly connected by the INTj.)

    This is my take on the whole quasi-identical thing...

    How would you say this would all work for an INFP/INFJ.... I'm pretty clear on the INTJ/INTP in the situation... but how would these 2 types conflict when reading eachothers writing, etc.

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    I am exactly like you, warrior-librarian, and I think Eidos' post explains why we hate the actual writing part, and yet are good at it -- it's a Te-based activity.

    I suspect others, like the NFs, probably have a less structured and more emotionally-driven writing style, explaining their ease of writing compared to us.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Not to sound too nihilistic or anything but writing papers, really doesn't matter- unless it's some big profile piece that's gonna get published. Write for fun, not work - and find your own voice, don't listen to anybody else but your self. And don't allow yourself to be institutionalized. You're a man not a little wuss. Okay?

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    Nevermind. You're not a man.

    Oh well. But seriously, school is one of the biggest illusions.

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    Well, I love writing papers. I always start straight away and try to make them as detailed as possible. I often procrastinate with studying, because that's really boring, but papers...I could write them all day and feel good about it. My methodology is similar to Eidos', but I apply the maximum marginal increase method only when I dislike the subject matter.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eidos View Post
    Phase 0: Research phase - read around, gather information - take notes
    Phase 1: Brainstorm; I just brainstorm and think of all the possible interpretations/ideas possible from what I've collected.
    Phase 2: Selection, I scrap the weakest points and keep the strongest. I then try and find examples, explanations, facts that will support my viewpoint as much as possible and will make me the most convincing possible. I "envision" the final product, how it would be "ideally" and this becomes my goal.
    Phase 3: Organization - I make a plan of the structure I'm going to use in my paper. When I'm going to talk about such and such point, etc.
    Phase 4: Execution - I write everything in one go. This enables a nice flow of ideas
    Phase 5: Verification. I do a quick verification of the "details"; wording, spelling, grammar. If worst comes to worst and I have no time, usually I drop the refinement as this I have found has only a marginal impact on your grade.
    Something like this always sounds good to me, but I'm like: nah, too much effort. I'm too irrational to follow a clear plan.

    I basically try to reach satisfactory results with minimal effort. Although, that's not how it ends up. I end up doing too much work, with some megalomaniac end result.

    I just find some good source, then write whatever I can extract from that. Then I look what I got, and what's most lacking part, then I find another source for that part, and extract stuff from that source. And keep doing that until I feel satisfied with the end result. While I'm finding the source for the spesific part that I need, I keep saving sources (I mostly just use the internet scientific article databases) that are related to what I'm writing about.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by incognito View Post
    I have a funny relationship with writing and language in general. I didn't learn to speak until I was four, and I mixed two languages together and sentences were spoken in reverse.
    Weird, I learned to speak about half the age, when children normally learn to speak.

    My project ended up being an entire environmental assessment and I spent 36 hours straight to write the report.
    Yes I do megasessions also. But I have to see that I'm close to the end, so I can do it. When I wrote my thesis I wrote about 20 pages in the last 3 days, powered by pepsi and candy. Then I returned my thesis, and crawled back home to sleep. If it's a shorter paper, that's what I always did, I wrote everything in one megasession just before deadline. And I usually finished it just in time.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    I put off writing all of my papers until last minute. And I feel bad because I knew if I did it ahead of time and paced, I'd have much better quality papers... But I write good papers, I don't think I've ever gotten anything lower than a B+ on a paper in college. I just to blurt out everything on my mind, then beef up until I get to the desired length. I don't get anxiety from papers, but I get frustrated that I'm up late at night before each due date when I had a month or so to prepare.

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    My LIE history prof often noted to me that while my papers provided a compelling and well-written narrative, they lacked logical analysis...

    At the beginning of university I wrote essays properly (that is, carefully over a sizable period of time). By the end I was starting them the day after they were due and finishing them 48 hours and 8 espressos later. I would have a stack of scrap notes and organize them into separate main themes/chapters/headings(which would become separate paragraphs) and then multitask between the different paragraphs as necessary until they formed a somewhat coherent pile of... something
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    My LIE history prof often noted to me that while my papers provided a compelling and well-written narrative, they lacked logical analysis...

    At the beginning of university I wrote essays properly (that is, carefully over a sizable period of time). By the end I was starting them the day after they were due and finishing them 48 hours and 8 espressos later. I would have a stack of scrap notes and organize them into separate main themes/chapters/headings(which would become separate paragraphs) and then multitask between the different paragraphs as necessary until they formed a somewhat coherent pile of... something
    That's pretty much exactly what I do, for humanities essays. I hate writing essays, so I've never really bothered too much with them. Scientific papers, on the other hand, I can deal with. Usually I just have lots of dot points in a Word document, and string it into sentences in no particular order, and it somehow forms itself...
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    Scientific papers, on the other hand, I can deal with. Usually I just have lots of dot points in a Word document, and string it into sentences in no particular order, and it somehow forms itself...
    I bet that's the kind of skill my prof was referring to when she said "logical analysis. I never built up the courage to tackle scientific essays as they would forfeit me of my WMD, what the Bush Administration would refer to as the "smoking gun", that is my unscrupulous stringing together of esoteric adjectives resulting from the ceremonious abuse of the much sanctified thesaurus (now in digital form). Alas...
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by incognito View Post
    I have a funny relationship with writing and language in general. I didn't learn to speak until I was four, and I mixed two languages together and sentences were spoken in reverse. In general, I dislike writing and I've tried very hard to avoid landing a job that depended on writing reports. I've been impressed with mathematical formulas because they seem be an efficient way to express an argument. Mind meld would be even better.

    However, it seems this is a skill I'm good at, and in fact, landed me a reasonably well paying position. I prefer writing over speaking to the point of writing a well composed email to communicate than call someone up. I'm very good at technical writing - very dry. My reports speak to the facts of the matter as they appear. The more technical, the better. My boss at the moment likes a 'positive' emphasis, so, I'll flip my reports with minimal effort to make my activities sound like the best, most accomplished ones ever seen on this earth (=BS).

    I take a holistic approach to writing and matters in general. I had a high school biology assignment due on an experiment. It was supposed to introduce us to the scientific method and writing reports. My project ended up being an entire environmental assessment and I spent 36 hours straight to write the report. My biology prof was blown away and used my report from that point forward as an example/benchmark. This happened once again in college. I usually do more than what is asked, because it happens I cannot stop myself at one small slice of the issue. I'll want to incorporate the entire big picture from various angles.

    Another thing I do is take the unpopular opinion and prove the unproven. It's not good enough to just write a report on justifying what others have tried to justify time and time again.

    Most often, my reports and essays have garnered comments like "well thought out, well written, etc." I like a well composed report with clear thinking. I do suffer from weak conclusions though. I take a long time to process what I want to write because it has to all fit nicely like a puzzle. I'm a terrible procrastinator as well - definitely pressure prompted.

    [DISCLAIMER] My typing is presently under review, please use the above information at your discretion.[/DISCLAIMER]
    have you considered whether you are high functioning autistic
    INTp

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