Why Do Catholics Do That?

[powerrainbowcrystal]

"Man shall not lie with man as he does a female, it is an abomination."

Oops.

[Not A Communist Shill]

All good questions.

If God punished a normal being for the sins of others, then yes, it would be unjust. But Jesus is God in the flesh. Therefore, God took the punishment for our sins. He did so because it was the only way. None of us can achieve perfect righteousness on our own. When we believe and trust in Jesus' work on the cross, we are justified and accredited with His righteousness. This is what separates Christianity from other religions. We cannot "do enough good" or "earn" Heaven. Rather, there should awaken in us an awe, a humbling of the soul, a sobering of the spirit, a change of heart in seeing a God who loves and dies for what is technically considered His enemies. It's that love that changes and transforms us. Grace is, by definition, unmerited or undeserved favor.

Punishing someone innocent and letting the criminal go free is unjust no matter who we are talking about. To see otherwise requires a deliberate corruption of what is just.

The real reason why popular Christianity considers Christ's death to be a necessary act to absolve the sins of humanity is likely due to Paul appropriating Jesus' death to mean something significant, to act as a central kernel of the new Christian faith in the 1st century AD.

Jesus' suffering on the cross was far beyond a mere day of torture. For one, He lived and experienced life in the flesh. Like us, He experienced hunger and thirst. He was flogged and beaten so hard that the Bible said He was beyond recognizable. And though the physical pain of the cross was excruciating, add to it 1) the shame, the mocking, the taunting, the spitting, 2) the guilt, taking our sins upon His shoulders, and 3) the rejection. Not only was Jesus rejected by being crucified outside of the city, He was rejected by everyone, to include His friends.

There is no doubt that crucifixion is painful and cruel. But that doesn't really cover my general point about it being less of a traumatic event then that inflicted by god on ordinary mortals in the afterlife. It should be noted that those who were crucified generally took several days to die, not several hours.

However, none of this could compare to the rejection Jesus experienced from God the Father. When He was on the cross, He cried, "My God, why had you forsaken me?" He was rejected and separated from God the Father, a perfectly eternal love.

This statement as recorded in two of the four gospels (the other two record Jesus as having different final words) is essentially the same as a verse in Psalms written several hundred years earlier, and in all probability, was fabricated by the authors of the gospels attributed to Mark and Matthew. If Jesus genuinely did say it, it may only show that he was a Jewish preacher at the point of a very painful death.

People ARE separated from God for their sin. All sin can be forgiven, except the sin of unbelief. How can God heal you if you refuse to acknowledge you need healing? God makes it very clear. Unless you repent and accept Christ, you will perish. He sends judges, prophets, priests, His son, and now evangelists to make sure everyone hears this message. He is not wanting anyone to perish.

The bottom line is- God is holy. We are not. There is no way for us to be reconciled with Him apart from Christ.

You know your Christianity. And you are familiar with the texts. We can have all the head knowledge in the world of the "religion" of Christianity. But if the heart cannot see a God who so loved the world that He came to die for it, that they might be able to be reconciled and embraced together for eternity, then all the logic in the world will not change your mind.

Christ's atonement is for those who repent- who recognize their sin and turn directions, lay down their rebellion against God-, and trust entirely in the work of Jesus. We cannot earn God's favor. Our work is like dirty rags.

Does a child need to earn the love of a good father? No. The Father loves the child because it's his child.


People perish eternally because they reject Christ. They prefer to keep their sin.

1 John 2:1-2 says that "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."

This would suggest that Christ is the saviour of everybody, not just those who believe. If Christ has already sacrificed himself, then all sins have already been forgiven.

I think for something to qualify as a sin, it should be a harmful choice. Do you think an individual can force themselves to believe something to be true? If Yes, you are saying that an individual should believe in things that others consider advantageous even though the individual really considers them to be false. If No, then this is a pointless discussion, as you are saying that god punishes people for what they honestly believe.

[Not A Communist Shill]

God is completely sovereign over everything, to include Satan. Recall the book of Job. Satan wasn't allowed to do any harm to Job without God's permission. He is on a tight leash until his day of judgement.

If god killed 25 million or so people in the bible, while Satan killed 10 people, and only with god's permission...how do you suggest we independently determine what is morally objective?

[Becca]

What we fail to see is the devastation, destruction, and chaos that even the smallest of sins makes against a completely holy God. Just look around the world. We would all agree that this place is far from ideal. Yet we all have contributed to the horrors of this place. I've done things I regret. I've hurt people, even if just emotionally. I've neglected to love others in the way I knew I ought to. I've contributed to this destructive place.

And yer I desire to live in a perfectly good, just, merciful, and wonderful place of love. Yet I lack the ability to perfectly carry this out. Thus, I myself do not deserve Heaven. I deserve punishment.

God warns us that the wage system of sin IS death. And yet He loves us still.

Hence, the necessity to believe in Jesus, to be born again, to receive a new heart and a new spirit. How can anyone claim to not need saving when they themselves can testify to their own sin, and thus contributing to the state of this world. "To know the right thing to do, and fail to do it, is sin."

It's astounding to me how God can show perfect justice and perfect mercy at the cross. God's wrath against Jesus on the cross was my penalty. And Jesus' sacrifice on the cross is my mercy.

I'm certain if someone paid all of your debt for you, or took your imprisonment terms for you, or took a fatal bullet for you, SOMETHING would move in your heart.

Jesus took an eternal bullet for us on the cross.

But why are you worshiping a mere mortal person though.

[Computer Loser]

But why are you worshiping a mere mortal person though.

Christians believe Jesus is God in the flesh; 100% man but also 100% God

[Becca]

Christians believe Jesus is God in the flesh; 100% man but also 100% God

[xerx]

There are major, irresolvable differences between Christian sects regarding the divinity of Christ. It's generally accepted that Christ was both divine and human, but how those two halves intermingled has been the source of major controversies, leading to political conflict and even war.

You guys should read up on Christological controversies. There are many, but here's a fun one:

Nestorians who tend to emphasize the disunion of the human and the divine nature of Christ.

vs.

Monophysites who tend to emphasize the complete union of the human and the divine aspects of Christ. The human is fully subordinated to the divine, like a drop of honey in the ocean.

The conflict between these two diametrically-opposed "heresies" shook the Eastern Roman Empire to its core during the period before the rise of Islam. Theological conflicts always bring out the worst in people, with each side tending to believe that the other is going to hell.

[Raver]

[Sol]

If Satan rules this world (2 Corinthians 4:4), why is he allowing a Bible in every hotel room?

It has no own will to rule by something. It's just an image of opposing to God. In some sense nothing and no one has own will.

Christians believe Jesus is God in the flesh; 100% man but also 100% God

Some of them. It's one of opinions wich was not as main in the beginning. It's questionable to call today Christians as such, as Jesus never called himself as God and it's nonsense for Judaism, follower of which Jesus was. Just a man, mb more psychically developed than average.

[powerrainbowcrystal]

lmao God is almost always depicted as an old white heterosexual man with a beard - which is exactly the type of person most people want to dominate over all of us.

“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.” - Susan B. Anthony

[Computer Loser]

Some of them. It's one of opinions wich was not as main in the beginning. It's questionable to call today Christians as such, as Jesus never called himself as God and it's nonsense for Judaism, follower of which Jesus was. Just a man, mb more psychically developed than average.

uhhhh

no.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Pope Francis has publicly spoken about reality of hell, Holy See counters media report

[Not A Communist Shill]

[Not A Communist Shill]

[Not A Communist Shill]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_coronation

A canonical coronation (Latin: coronatio canonica) is a pious institutional act of the Pope, duly expressed in a Papal bull in which oftentimes a Papal legate or Papal nuncio, or at rare occasions the Pontiff himself designates a crown, tiara, or stellar halo to a Christological, Marian, or Josephian image with a specific devotional title that is prominently venerated in a particular diocese or locality.

History

The custom of crowning holy images originated with the Order of Friars Minor Capuchin, who through their evangelical missionaries collected great quantities of jewelry associated with indulgences, which funded the golden crowns or accessories for images of the Blessed Virgin Mary. A Capuchin friar, Jeronimo Paolucci di Calboldi di Forli (1552-1620) was a major advocate for this practice, and was known during his life as the self-proclaimed "Apostle of the Blessed Lady." Forli crowned the Nursing Madonna after a simple homily, now enshrined at the Sanctuary of Santa Maria della Steccata on 27 May 1601.

In addition, in 3 July 1636, the Marquis of Piacenza and Count of Borgonovo, Alessandro Sforza Cesarini died, upon which he bequeathed in his last will and testament a large sum of money to the Vatican Chapter, be invested to produce crowns of precious metals for the coronation of the most celebrated Marian images in the world. The funds of his testament went towards the restoration of ‘’Madonna della Febbre’’ now enshrined in the sacristy of Saint Peter’s Basilica.

In Catholic religious practice

The practice and public declaration of coronation became widely popular in the Papal states prior to 1800, and approximately 300 coronation rites were performed. On 29 March 1897, an official rite was included in the Roman Pontifical, for which a plenary indulgence was also conceded to the faithful who participated in such rites.

• The first Marian image that was ceremoniously crowned without direct Papal approbation was performed by Cardinal Pietro Sforza Pallavicino to La Madonna della Oropa on 30 August 1620.
• The first Marian image that was Pontificaly crowned was Lippo Memmi’s painting of La Madonna della Febbre (Madonna of Fever) in the sacristy of Saint Peter's Basilica in Rome on 27 May 1631, by Pope Urban VIII through the Vatican Chapter.
• The first Marian image crowned by a Pope himself instead of a proxy papal legate was the “Madonna Del Populo” on 3 June 1782, by Pope Pius VI, at the Cesena Cathedral.

The solemn prescription of ritual to crown images is embedded in the "Ordo Coronandi Imaginem Beatae Mariae Virginis", published by the Holy Office on 25 May 1981. Prior to 1989, Papal bulls authorizing canonical coronations were subscribed manually on parchment. After 1989, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments began issuing the authorizations, and expressed the approbated devotional title of the image and authorizing a Papal legate to perform the coronation in behalf of the Supreme Pontiff.

[Not A Communist Shill]

2018 A.D.: Pope to grant indulgences at Dublin World Meeting of Families

[marooned]

2018 A.D.: Pope to grant indulgences at Dublin World Meeting of Families

Dear Mr. Pope, you are not God. You cannot impact my eternal life. - Random Sinner

[niffer]

Why do people get brainwashed into believing something their entire lives, and then choose to defend it beyond the limits of rationality? I can’t imagine!

[falsehope]

Why do people get brainwashed into believing something their entire lives, and then choose to defend it beyond the limits of rationality? I can’t imagine!

As you say, it's not rational. Not everyone is rational. People do lack brains. Apart from that there must be many other reasons. Some are plain insane. Some are just taught this way. Humans are normally uncomfortable thinking differently then the rest so the groupthink takes effect. Even on this forum, groupthink is huge :-) Groupthink is the most common way to lose touch with reality.

[niffer]

As you say, it's not rational. Not everyone is rational. People do lack brains. Apart from that there must be many other reasons. Some are plain insane. Some are just taught this way. Humans are normally uncomfortable thinking differently then the rest so the groupthink takes effect. Even on this forum, groupthink is huge :-) Groupthink is the most common way to lose touch with reality.

The term itself is an oxymoron because it doesn’t involve any (non-rationalizing) thought.