Delta irrational dual pair (IEE & SLI) - Michael J. Fox and Tracy Pollan

[mikemex]

Here are a few videos where you can see them:

https://screen.yahoo.com/daily-shot-...151209869.html

http://vimeo.com/22078360

And damn, I'm not the only IEE around who annoys people to death with his obsessive ideas (see 3:30):



Like, LOL

[Olly From Wally World]

Hmm, I do see introvert and extrovert but they both seem ethical so far. And what's up with him in that Yahoo video, he seems kinda restless. Oh, nevermind, seems he has Parkinson's or something.

[Olly From Wally World]

Pretty smooth dude.

"When things weren't going that well, I used to always hate when some young guy about my age would drive by in those sports cars, you know, those fancy sports cars with the big tires and everything? I used to hate those jerks. So I went out and bought one. *smiles*"

[Beautiful sky]

no SLI and EIE

[Olly From Wally World]

no SLI and EIE

Which is EIE? I think MJF likely is which would be an okay typing seeing as that's IEE quasi-identical. What I quoted was me sorta showing possible HA. I don't think they're conflictors though.

[Beautiful sky]

Which is EIE? I think MJF likely is which would be an okay typing seeing as that's IEE quasi-identical. What I quoted was me sorta showing possible HA. I don't think they're conflictors though.

his wife

[Olly From Wally World]

Ahhh, the good ol' days. When the old farts were all in agreement with their typings and all was well.

[Waster]

no SLI and EIE

Conflictors?

[wacey]

This idea that those two are conflictors is ludicrous.

http://vimeo.com/22078360

I watched this whole video and found they have a wonderful connection, easy, unspoken communication, they seem to be the same person in two different bodies. She lets him speak for them both and seems to uphold the foundation. He references her at times and in doing so she just beams rays of love out of her eyes. They seem to understand one another so well and I would be hard pressed to believe conflictors would stay in a marriage together if one partner succumbs to a debilitating, chronic illness. No break downs of egos inadvertently tugging at each others weaknesses, like conflictors might. They seem strong and stronger for having each other. Even the way Michael describes meeting her way back when he says "he had to have her, just look at her". No missteps here.

[Beautiful sky]

Conflictors?

Yes. Delta sli and iee duals are Naomi watts (iee) and her husband

[Beautiful sky]

This idea that those two are conflictors is ludicrous.

http://vimeo.com/22078360

I watched this whole video and found they have a wonderful connection, easy, unspoken communication, they seem to be the same person in two different bodies. She lets him speak for them both and seems to uphold the foundation. He references her at times and in doing so she just beams rays of love out of her eyes. They seem to understand one another so well and I would be hard pressed to believe conflictors would stay in a marriage together if one partner succumbs to a debilitating, chronic illness. No break downs of egos inadvertently tugging at each others weaknesses, like conflictors might. They seem strong and stronger for having each other. Even the way Michael describes meeting her way back when he says "he had to have her, just look at her". No missteps here.

I'm not saying that they don't love each other I'm saying that they have a relationship of conflictory

[wacey]

SLI/EIE ime the SLI gradually pulls away and the EIE becomes bitter and spiteful. Eventually the SLI wouldn't participate in EIE's life what-so-ever, love or not. I doubt they would even be at a public interview, the SLI would have stubbornly stayed at home at that point. As she was over time demoralized to the point of complete obstinacy.

Michael doesn't produce any Ni in any of the interviews I have observed of him. He plays to the audience, sure, yet only in clever responsive ways like a Fe demonstrative. He "thinly feeling least changed mood, easily associates, wonderfully he works with people". His conversations always turn to introverted feeling, how he reacts internally, how others react internally towards him. He is known for being personable in a way IEE are as well. He is such a clear infantile erotically and this is very apparent with his wife that she is a caregiver, she even says she worries about "the practical stuff" or "smalll stuff" all the time for both of them. When the parkinsons started, he actually went to Tracey to tell him what is going on. He is very clearly both mobilized and suggestive towards her. Further, he has that slight negativism in his speech which is found in ENFj true, but taken into account all the other clues like his vibrant humanistic slant, I think its the IEE type. He bounces around from one topic to the next with very clear Ep temperament. He even trips up on Ti when he is asked to describe the scientific advances up to this point regarding Parkinson's.

"If i didn't have Tracey, I might have made darker choices, instead of moving towards the light".

On a side note, he is literally a national hero in my country. I love that man, he is a living angel.

[Beautiful sky]

All you have to do is look at her temperament. Not restless and very much Ej

[Iris]

@wacey Your video is very good. I agree that they are not conflictors. A few thoughts about his video:

I wish I was as calm and silent and still as Tracy. She seems more perceiving than me. She is more like my SEI sister in law than me.

If you notice, he is doing most of the talking. That has never been characteristic of my conversations with my SLI friends. In an interview like that one, I would be either contibuting my own opinions or at least nodding my head or saying thats right, etc.

He seems more like my LSI friend than an SLI. I dont know much about him, but I will try to to investigate.

[Iris]

http://www.tribute.ca/interviews/eli...ie/star/26181/

Elisabeth Shue is a good example of what an EIE looks like in an interview. Including the fidgety movements.

[Beautiful sky]

http://www.tribute.ca/interviews/eli...ie/star/26181/

Elisabeth Shue is a good example of what an EIE looks like in an interview. Including the fidgety movements.

EIE are Ej temperament.

Iris sometimes I wonder about you. I just don't get you. You have all the information at hand to think about things yet you always manage to come up with some outlandish conclusion. WiWwy?

[Iris]

EIE are Ej temperament.

Iris sometimes I wonder about you. I just don't get you. You have all the information at hand to think about things yet you always manage to come up with some outlandish conclusion. WiWwy?

I do understand that EIEs are EJ temperament.

What is it about my post that you think is outlandish?

[Park]

Outlandish... is Maritsa's hat.

[Park]

Iris, I believe OP's suggestion was IEE for Fox and SLI for Pollan. (in case you thought it was the other way around)

[Iris]

Iris, I believe OP's suggestion was IEE for Fox and SLI for Pollan. (in case you thought it was the other way around)

Hi Park!

I got the impression from post # 6 in this thread, that Maritsa believes Tracy Pollan to be EIE. And in post #14 she says her temperament is not very restless and very much EJ. So I was responding to that with an example of what I beleive is an example of EJ behavior in EIEs.

Regarding the OP, that makes more sense than them being conflictors.

[Eliza Thomason]

This idea that those two are conflictors is ludicrous.

http://vimeo.com/22078360

I watched this whole video and found they have a wonderful connection, easy, unspoken communication, they seem to be the same person in two different bodies. She lets him speak for them both and seems to uphold the foundation. He references her at times and in doing so she just beams rays of love out of her eyes. They seem to understand one another so well and I would be hard pressed to believe Conflictors would stay in a marriage together if one partner succumbs to a debilitating, chronic illness. No break downs of egos inadvertently tugging at each others weaknesses, like conflictors might. They seem strong and stronger for having each other. Even the way Michael describes meeting her way back when he says "he had to have her, just look at her". No missteps here.

Yes, i agree, this harmony from the beginning cannot be Conflictors; I don't know if Conflictors could EVER arrive at this harmony. My sis-in-law is doing well with her Conflictor after years of conflict but its more like a truce they have, avoiding certain topics, a determination to nit fight and stay on peaceful grounds. But this kind of relationship between these two cannot be Conflict, for sure. They do have a Duality vibe. Now which Duals, I am not sure. I can sort of relate to her - possibly she is IEE. But I am not sure. But I am not sure. I won't vote on a type here since I am not getting a strong feeling about it. Though I wonder if its an IEE-Fi/SLI-Te?? What do you think, @applejacks?

[Park]

Hi Park!

I got the impression from post # 6 in this thread, that Maritsa believes Tracy Pollan to be EIE. And in post #14 she says her temperament is not very restless and very much EJ. So I was responding to that with an example of what I beleive is an example of EJ behavior in EIEs.

Regarding the OP, that makes more sense than them being conflictors.

Ah. I don't read Maritsa's posts.

[applejacks]

I can see IEE for MJF and SLI for Tracy. It's a little strange seeing their types and relationship manifested in the opposite gender as myself and my husband, but from a purely gut instinct and from observing how they act in front of others, how they dress, and they compliment and communicate together, it makes sense to me. There is almost something rigid about Tracy, despite her humor and effort to be light hearted that reminds me of my SLI. Also, she seems to have more sensory in her element of dress yet with restrain and conservation, which also fits SLI in my experience.

I dunno. Just my observation.

[wacey]

@wacey Your video is very good. I agree that they are not conflictors. A few thoughts about his video:

I wish I was as calm and silent and still as Tracy. She seems more perceiving than me. She is more like my SEI sister in law than me.

If you notice, he is doing most of the talking. That has never been characteristic of my conversations with my SLI friends. In an interview like that one, I would be either contibuting my own opinions or at least nodding my head or saying thats right, etc.

He seems more like my LSI friend than an SLI. I dont know much about him, but I will try to to investigate.

Lol, Iris! I was saying Michael is the IEE, Tracey is the SLI. Taken in THAT light, what would you say?

[Iris]

Lol, Iris! I was saying Michael is the IEE, Tracey is the SLI. Taken in THAT light, what would you say?

My remarks were directed more at Maritsa's EIE typing for Tracy. Before posting, I realized that I needed to distinguish your video from the others, so I inserted the mention of you. Thanks again for finding that good video.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I just don't know much about him, or her, for that matter. So most of my observations have taken the elimination route, But your IEE/SLI typing could be correct. He seems very toned down for an IEE. But I guess that life, and Parkinson's disease might do that to you.

[Words]

Duals exist?

[Beautiful sky]

I do understand that EIEs are EJ temperament.

What is it about my post that you think is outlandish?

Ej is restless which is this...Leonardo Dicaprio is ESTj which is wanting to get up out of your seat; what Ep is fidgety which is swiveling in your seat. Matt Damon is Ep...he doesn't want to get up and go from his seat which is like shifting from one side of the seat to the other, but moving wiggling, etc lol

Don't argue that Leo isn't Te, what he observed, the actions by Matt, in front of him is telling enough. Ej is also what Leo does which is sudden look at his hand and put it down, the movements are sudden and sharp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRhA...Pgmuw&index=20

Elizabeth Shue is more fidgety which is Ep

[Iris]

Ej is restless which is this...Leonardo Dicaprio is ESTj which is wanting to get up out of your seat; what Ep is fidgety which is swiveling in your seat. Matt Damon is Ep...he doesn't want to get up and go from his seat which is like shifting from one side of the seat to the other, but moving wiggling, etc lol

Don't argue that Leo isn't Te, what he observed, the actions by Matt, in front of him is telling enough. Ej is also what Leo does which is sudden look at his hand and put it down, the movements are sudden and sharp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRhA...Pgmuw&index=20

Elizabeth Shue is more fidgety which is Ep

I am sorry but I cant understand the difference between some of the distinctions in body movements that you are trying to make in your post. Thank you for trying to clarify.

I think that Matt Damon is LSE and Dicaprio is SEE. Reading about Damon's life, it is easy to see his Delta values.

The Elisabeth Shue video was to merely demonstrate the physical rigidity/awkwardness that is similar to mine (EIE) in contrast to Tracy Pollan's more relaxed IP demeanor.

[Skepsis]

I can see Michael J. Fox as IEE. This isn't necessarily so, but it does seem to fit. For Tracey, I can sort of see her as SLI, but I can also see her as EIE. Probably the latter more so. She has this smooth, relaxed vibe, but she also has this "oh silly Michael". It seems like a very nice relationship though, and they do seem to love one another. They seem to have similar, yet diverging life views, like those of a quasi-identical. They seem like they have to work on similar projects together to stay engaged instead of just enjoying the company of one another. But I could be wrong.

It's easy to love your dual, but maybe relationships that are more difficult are more rewarding.


I also don't see DiCaprio and Damon as being that different. Maybe they are both Ej or some other temperament. They vibe very similarly, even if they are quite distinct as individuals.

[wacey]

I can see Michael J. Fox as IEE. This isn't necessarily so, but it does seem to fit. For Tracey, I can sort of see her as SLI, but I can also see her as EIE. Probably the latter more so. She has this smooth, relaxed vibe, but she also has this "oh silly Michael". It seems like a very nice relationship though, and they do seem to love one another. They seem to have similar, yet diverging life views, like those of a quasi-identical. They seem like they have to work on similar projects together to stay engaged instead of just enjoying the company of one another. But I could be wrong.

It's easy to love your dual, but maybe relationships that are more difficult are more rewarding.

I'm curious, what do you all picture SLI as looking like?

That duality pair is all about space, with both of them giving each other lots of space when its necessary. That is usually regulated by the adept, creative Fi of the IEE. No moulding of personalities such as what happens with other dual pairs. The bolded is, ime, exactly how an SLI treats their infantile extroverted partner. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Skepsis]

I'm curious, what do you all picture SLI as looking like?

That duality pair is all about space, with both of them giving each other lots of space when its necessary. That is usually regulated by the adept, creative Fi of the IEE. No moulding of personalities such as what happens with other dual pairs. The bolded is, ime, exactly how an SLI treats their infantile extroverted partner. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Honestly, I have trouble spotting an SLI. I think my wife is one, but she may be LSE. I used to think she was ESI, but I think i was mistakening her Te for Se somehow. It's even tougher because of gender role expectations. I'm the playful one that can console the kids and she's what I jokingly call the "great task master" that makes sure bills are always paid and everyone makes it to their appointment. I could easily do those things too, but it is something she naturally wants dominion over and makes her feel fulfilled for some reason. But her Te seems to be on only part of the time, like what I would expect from SLIs. When it's off, we get along much, much better because playtime and work time can conflict. I think my wife tries to fill a more feminine role without actually becoming what is seen as traditionally feminine, as I try and fill a more masculine role, once I'm done playing video games with the kids, by fixing things and killing spiders. We both downplay our gender opposite tendencies a bit, meaning I try to appear more "logical" and she more "ethical".

I think I was having the same misconception with Tracey. She seems to be playing out a feminine role, and does so gracefully, without coming across as overly feminine. Te has a "bite" to it, or a certain directness or bluntness to it, which is made a little less so by being a creative as opposed to a dominant function. I think a female that is conscious of that may try to downplay it a little. I think you're right. Tracy is likely SLI.

[wacey]

Nice, man.

Just for fun I'd say SLI are like big imbeciles who are wandering in the woods some day alone. They stumble across a nest and find an unhatched egg. They take this egg home and diligently incubate it until one day it hatches. It's a baby IEE. The tiny chick grows to love its SLI adopted caregiver and the SLI imbecile takes care of it with all its heart. Here is a little bird that can freely fly away, but guess what? It chooses to stay right where the SLI wants it, on their shoulder. (Little does the SLI know that this IEE only pretends it can fly, in fact it is totally reliant on the SLI at this point, it has not grown its flight feathers yet).

And so the two become inseparable. The bird sings its songs which amuse and entertain the SLI, and the SLI gains a friend who seems to be endlessly entertaining, affectionate, and by some weird chance loves the imbecile unconditionally. So what if there are a few issues, such as when the birds squawks annoyingly to get its needs met? Or that it seems to forget all about the SLI when other people come over to visit? Or that its ultra alert all the time and notices every sound? Or that so much of what it says and does make no sense? Because at the end of the day its the SLI that the bird chooses to roost beside. Who and what else in all the world would and could notice the peaceful little SLI imbecile?

And look how many words the bird has learned? It just talks and squawks and chatters and clicks and screams, and it never expects the SLI to say a thing in return, except maybe feed it some seeds like millet, which is its favourite. The nice thing is that when the SLI wants some peace and quite he just throws a blanket over the IEE cage and he calms right down and goes to sleep. When the SLI is relaxing on the couch, the IEE will entertain itself by preening for hours on end. Luckily it has a short memory.

And so, the SLI imbecile has gained a friend. A bird brained IEE. Soon the bird grows into a beautiful coloured Parrot. And if it some day does fly away, as all Parrots might, at the very least it leaves behind some bright, magnificent feathers for the SLI to covet until the end of their days. Always reminding them of the IEE bird they found and nurtured for a time. A bird that allowed them to fly.

The end.

[wacey]

Honestly, I have trouble spotting an SLI. I think my wife is one, but she may be LSE. I used to think she was ESI, but I think i was mistakening her Te for Se somehow. It's even tougher because of gender role expectations. I'm the playful one that can console the kids and she's what I jokingly call the "great task master" that makes sure bills are always paid and everyone makes it to their appointment. I could easily do those things too, but it is something she naturally wants dominion over and makes her feel fulfilled for some reason. But her Te seems to be on only part of the time, like what I would expect from SLIs. When it's off, we get along much, much better because playtime and work time can conflict. I think my wife tries to fill a more feminine role without actually becoming what is seen as traditionally feminine, as I try and fill a more masculine role, once I'm done playing video games with the kids, by fixing things and killing spiders. We both downplay our gender opposite tendencies a bit, meaning I try to appear more "logical" and she more "ethical".

I think I was having the same misconception with Tracey. She seems to be playing out a feminine role, and does so gracefully, without coming across as overly feminine. Te has a "bite" to it, or a certain directness or bluntness to it, which is made a little less so by being a creative as opposed to a dominant function. I think a female that is conscious of that may try to downplay it a little. I think you're right. Tracy is likely SLI.

You are not the first IEE I have heard talk about gender roles, I wonder if its a type thing?

[willekeurig]

Nice, man.

Just for fun I'd say SLI are like big imbeciles who are wandering in the woods some day alone. They stumble across a nest and find an unhatched egg. They take this egg home and diligently incubate it until one day it hatches. It's a baby IEE. The tiny chick grows to love its SLI adopted caregiver and the SLI imbecile takes care of it with all its heart. Here is a little bird that can freely fly away, but guess what? It chooses to stay right where the SLI wants it, on their shoulder. (Little does the SLI know that this IEE only pretends it can fly, in fact it is totally reliant on the SLI at this point, it has not grown its flight feathers yet).

And so the two become inseparable. The bird sings its songs which amuse and entertain the SLI, and the SLI gains a friend who seems to be endlessly entertaining, affectionate, and by some weird chance loves the imbecile unconditionally. So what if there are a few issues, such as when the birds squawks annoyingly to get its needs met? Or that it seems to forget all about the SLI when other people come over to visit? Or that its ultra alert all the time and notices every sound? Or that so much of what it says and does make no sense? Because at the end of the day its the SLI that the bird chooses to roost beside. Who and what else in all the world would and could notice the peaceful little SLI imbecile?

And look how many words the bird has learned? It just talks and squawks and chatters and clicks and screams, and it never expects the SLI to say a thing in return, except maybe feed it some seeds like millet, which is its favourite. The nice thing is that when the SLI wants some peace and quite he just throws a blanket over the IEE cage and he calms right down and goes to sleep. When the SLI is relaxing on the couch, the IEE will entertain itself by preening for hours on end. Luckily it has a short memory.

And so, the SLI imbecile has gained a friend. A bird brained IEE. Soon the bird grows into a beautiful coloured Parrot. And if it some day does fly away, as all Parrots might, at the very least it leaves behind some bright, magnificent feathers for the SLI to covet until the end of their days. Always reminding them of the IEE bird they found and nurtured for a time. A bird that allowed them to fly.

The end.

I want to print this and hang on my wall.

[Iris]

I'm curious, what do you all picture SLI as looking like?

That duality pair is all about space, with both of them giving each other lots of space when its necessary. That is usually regulated by the adept, creative Fi of the IEE. No moulding of personalities such as what happens with other dual pairs. The bolded is, ime, exactly how an SLI treats their infantile extroverted partner. I couldn't have said it better myself.

The idea of space is a good one. And it is hard for me to give that much space in a situation like that Fox/Pollan interview.

@Jimmers The only time that I, an EIE, would behave that way was if I had been told not to speak, or had no interest in the topic. I dont actually finish people's sentences for them, because I know that is rude, but I am usually very engaged. It rushes and interrupts the smooth perceiving flow. I am pretty sure that IPs find my style disconcerting.

And the kind of space that an IP gives me makes me question whether they are paying attention to what I am saying. Don't get me wrong, I love their chill vibe, so relaxing to be around. But in conversation, I need the laser beam eyes, the more focused attention of an LSI, so that I know that I am being listened to.

[Park]

@wacey: what were you drinking when you wrote that slushy piece of prosaic poetry?

It's kind of erotic.

[Park]

And the kind of space that an IP gives me makes me question whether they are paying attention to what I am saying. Don't get me wrong, I love their chill vibe, so relaxing to be around. But in conversation, I need the laser beam eyes, the more focused attention of an LSI, so that I know that I am being listened to.

Attentive listening is important for me, too. And I value clarity and straightforwardness in communication. When I can achieve this with someone, interactions becomes easy, comfortable, and effective.

My problem tends to be listening too attentively and seriously, as people tend to dislike being held to their word and generally don't expect to be thoroughly heard out or taken too seriously. Sadly, most people are full of shit, most of the time.

As for eye contact, I have to say I don't see how that could be an accurate measure of attentiveness. I can look straight into your eyes and not listen to anything you say, and vice versa.

[wacey]

@wacey: what were you drinking when you wrote that slushy piece of prosaic poetry?

It's kind of erotic.

- I was saw some of the posts in this thread and just feel there are a few misconceptions of SLIs.
- This is one sociotype I am very confident about with my knowledge of them.
- I have a lot of respect for this type, and know the kind of people (duals) that really turn there crank and click well together.
- Wrote it in like 10 minutes cause if I didn't I would just forget what I wanted to say.
- There is very little literature on the internet about this duality pairing because they are both somewhat enigmatical types. SLI are not "out" there, they tend to blend into the back ground and as a consequence are sort of forgotten about within the socionics community.
- IEE are like parrots imo, and SLI can be dopey imbeciles in that they just don't always "advocate" for their own needs, especially when they are not in relationships. They really blossom personally when there is that one person, or small groups of people that include them. They are, imo, very trust worthy and trusting and in this I feel they can get used by others a fair deal. That is why I joking/affectionally refer to them as imbeciles.
- why not? its supposed to be fun.

[Park]

How do I find out if I'm an imbecile?

[wacey]

You are not park. Its just a story I made up, signifying nothing.