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Thread: Functions and math

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    Default Functions and math

    N has to do with topology
    S with geometry
    T with statistics
    F .... ?


    Topology is to geometry as Statistics is to what?

    Would be a tough SAT question
    -Slava


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi
    What is the basis for this?
    Careful observation over many years of life experience. here are some possible pointers to prove my basis....

    Se people always complain about Ne people doing things out of proportion. Se people are all about bodily proportions. se people are all about aesthetics. Se people are all about fractional math (do i have to prove this too?). Se people got pissed off long ago when N people came out with irrational numbers, people were killed for this... Se people tend to draw with shades rather than outlines....

    Ne people tend to connect ideas and data. Ne people know how to get from place to place via intersection connections but do not know the map geometry and often have trouble rerouting their path of travel in unfamiliar areas using geographical references such as mountains and such. Ne people forget what they look like and what things look like. Ne people love concept maps. Ne people dont know when too much cologn or perfum is too much once they get used to it......

    Te people tend to quantify things and then use math and statistics to come to conclusions and such and yatta yatta u get the point...
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    why do you think people who don't get laid study math

    Do you think math is a cause or an effect of not getting laid. I think its society's way to make someone hold up those curtains I was talking about... power doesn't come for free... you have to carry around a lot of bagage in order to receive benefits of high responsibility.

    Many commoners think that intellectuals are criminals... this is not true, they are potential big criminals if they are to fall, and they are quite used to carrying so much bagage in fact... what might seem like a lot to a commoner isn;t really much to the intellectual... which is why people tend to vent or "put up" to the smarter ones.. I've never seen anyone vent to a rock before and dirive satisfaction. problems in society need to have a humans destination, and are best passed up if lower levels cannot solve them
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Ne people tend to connect ideas and data. Ne people know how to get from place to place via intersection connections but do not know the map geometry and often have trouble rerouting their path of travel in unfamiliar areas using geographical references such as mountains and such. Ne people forget what they look like and what things look like. Ne people love concept maps. Ne people dont know when too much cologn or perfum is too much once they get used to it......
    Yeah that ENTp was always uber confident in this shit and we ended up multiple times lost until I kicked his arse
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Ne people tend to connect ideas and data. Ne people know how to get from place to place via intersection connections but do not know the map geometry and often have trouble rerouting their path of travel in unfamiliar areas using geographical references such as mountains and such. Ne people forget what they look like and what things look like. Ne people love concept maps. Ne people dont know when too much cologn or perfum is too much once they get used to it......
    Yeah that ENTp was always uber confident in this shit and we ended up multiple times lost until I kicked his arse
    I'm starting to get really good with road topology, and I think my Se has bee developing lately so now I use geography more to navigate like following a river, or knowing that something is parallel and then figuring out north and south... basically knowing that other places in space exist and dont move around to fuck with me... INTjs suck balls at navigating oh god.... and they make a mess in your car too and dont take responsibility... beware!
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava

    Careful observation over many years of life experience. here are some possible pointers to prove my basis....

    Se people always complain about Ne people doing things out of proportion. Se people are all about bodily proportions. se people are all about aesthetics. Se people are all about fractional math (do i have to prove this too?). Se people got pissed off long ago when N people came out with irrational numbers, people were killed for this... Se people tend to draw with shades rather than outlines....

    Ne people tend to connect ideas and data. Ne people know how to get from place to place via intersection connections but do not know the map geometry and often have trouble rerouting their path of travel in unfamiliar areas using geographical references such as mountains and such. Ne people forget what they look like and what things look like. Ne people love concept maps. Ne people dont know when too much cologn or perfum is too much once they get used to it......

    Te people tend to quantify things and then use math and statistics to come to conclusions and such and yatta yatta u get the point...
    I definitely agree with you about T people but really Te people wanting to quantify things through statistics and such, I think the issue of probability and uncertainty would make it difficult for a Ti, especially NeTi to form a concept around statistics. Maybe it' s a reason why I struggled immensely with the class. (I understood the principles, but had trouble applying the specific procedure to solve each problem).

    Interesting what you mention about Se liking rational numbers that work out. To me this could also be which emphasizes structural systems logic, and when the fractions work out evenly, it fits within the entire system of logic and makes sense. I personally felt similarly about irrational numbers as you describe Se types to feel. I didn't care for them much in finance when some of our answers were very irrational.

    When you mention S favoring Geometry and N favoring Topology, how might the S approach Geometry as opposed to the N? For me, geometry was always one of my strongest areas, and I really learned it by drawing parallels and relating to things I've noticed in the world and being able to imagine the shapes in different positions and in relation to one another. And maps, whether conceptual or physical have always been my friend. Sometimes I would read map books just for fun and love finding new, quicker and unique ways from one place to another. I would always know, even from an early age as I was told, where places were in relation to others and what direction or road we needed to take to get from point A to B. When it came to unfamiliar places, I try and rely on a sense of direction and once I finally get to where I need to, I look at it on a map to apply a structure and make sense of where I have just been. I don't know if this is atypical for an N, or maybe it's not related.

    Maybe what you've touched upon regarding preference for math subjects involves different learning styles, which could be function related if not j/p related. Check out this article on the Visual Spatial Learner. Do you think this style applies particularly to N or S; Te vs Ti?

    http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Articles/vsl/v100.pdf

    I happen to identify with a lot of the traits of a VSL, especially doing poorly on timed sequential tests, and percieving the interrelatedness of the parts of any situation.

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    The map thing tha you do may either be your developing Se, or... it could be an internal model of the reality that is outside... theres a difference between looking around you and picturing things that are in the distance and looking around you and then internally picturing the map. Se people visualize their map around them and can float around the map externally, they are actually very rarely inside of their body perceptually. Ne people actually rely on their senses alot more and have trouble memorizing pictures in terms of reletive proportions of allt he vital elements, instead they memorize the topologies of it, the concept of the picture and sub associations things. This is why an Se person has a different gaze usually, that an Ne person... in extreme cases an Ne gaze will look something like very wide open and dialated eyes, where an Se persons eyes will appear to be unused, they also turn their head a lot more often to get a scan of their surroundings using a narrow yet high detail beam, while an Ne person would just get a large area with wide yet blurry periferal. Which also matches with their characters... one cares about detail but not the big picture, and the other cares about the big picture but not the detail... its all a matter of focus, its like adjusting a flashlight... if you turn it one way it becmes a tight bright beam, if you do it the otherway it becomes a wide dim beam. Same with Ne and Se.... Ni and Si are the internalized versions of this.... Ti also does statistics btw... Ti finds out what atttributes are important for diff objects and materials and sub components and then memorizes the properties for each of these things... the later he can look over the attributes and see if there are correlations or causations... Its usuallt Te people though who cannot tell the difference between cause and effect but they preach the old saying... correlation is not causation.

    Ti people think in java objects sorta....


    class DCMotor extends Motor {
    public long RPM = 10000;
    public double volts = 12.0;
    public double torque = 150.0;
    // 2 electrical leads in, 1 1/32" bore output
    }


    class PneumaticActuator extends LinearActuator {
    public double pistonArea = 6;
    public double maxpressure = 2000;
    public double strokelength = 10;
    public double shaftdiam = 2;
    public int material = 6061_Aluminum;
    public int seal = Buna_N;
    public int hoseInlet = NPT_1_per_4;
    public long lifecycles = (10^6) * 10;
    }

    Things are made of other things and the division between the classes is seen clearly. ....
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    The map thing tha you do may either be your developing Se, or... it could be an internal model of the reality that is outside... theres a difference between looking around you and picturing things that are in the distance and looking around you and then internally picturing the map. Se people visualize their map around them and can float around the map externally, they are actually very rarely inside of their body perceptually.
    I think I know exactly what you're talking about. I almost always look at things first and then picture the map. When it's a map of a new area, I recall the images and perspective and concept I had of the area around it and try to incorporate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Ne people actually rely on their senses alot more and have trouble memorizing pictures in terms of reletive proportions of allt he vital elements, instead they memorize the topologies of it, the concept of the picture and sub associations things.
    I agree. The picture has to be in a context and be backed by topology. For example if I looked at a painting, I would remember the reaction the overall picture gave me first, and then remember the reaction I had to it's details, and the reaction/feeling/idea would in itself trigger back the actual image. I was taking this test online and it showed a picture of a bunch of objects for a minute, then showed the same picture with some objects moved and I had to point out which objects had been moved and it was very difficult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve6
    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    The map thing tha you do may either be your developing Se, or... it could be an internal model of the reality that is outside... theres a difference between looking around you and picturing things that are in the distance and looking around you and then internally picturing the map. Se people visualize their map around them and can float around the map externally, they are actually very rarely inside of their body perceptually.
    I think I know exactly what you're talking about. I almost always look at things first and then picture the map. When it's a map of a new area, I recall the images and perspective and concept I had of the area around it and try to incorporate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Ne people actually rely on their senses alot more and have trouble memorizing pictures in terms of reletive proportions of allt he vital elements, instead they memorize the topologies of it, the concept of the picture and sub associations things.
    I agree. The picture has to be in a context and be backed by topology. For example if I looked at a painting, I would remember the reaction the overall picture gave me first, and then remember the reaction I had to it's details, and the reaction/feeling/idea would in itself trigger back the actual image. I was taking this test online and it showed a picture of a bunch of objects for a minute, then showed the same picture with some objects moved and I had to point out which objects had been moved and it was very difficult.
    Yeah if you move an S persons things they will know, if you move an N persons things they wont know, unless they specifcally were tracking it. But on the other hand if u put an object under something an S person wont know its there but an N person might be curious whats under it... If u have S parents u can stash your drugs under a sheet of paper on your desk and ull be fine.

    Ok resummary....

    Se = External inward projected geometry
    Ne =Eexternal inward projected topology
    Te = External inward projected statistics
    Fe = External inward projected ??? Sexiness?
    Si = Internal outward projected geometry
    Ni =Internal outward projected topology
    Ti = Internal outward projected statistics
    Fi = Internal outward projected ??? Sexiness?

    Now the reason why i say inward and outward projected is because the i functions generate things internally and then the internal construct is overlayed ontop of external objects.... the e functions on the other hand notice external construct and model it internally.... Accepting function I believe pay attention to that same type of data and model it externally or internally in order to simulate what is being talked about... for example someone talking about UFOs and aliens might cause an ENTp or ENFp to become paranoid because someone just injected a model into the accepting base function or the accepting role function. With the role function however it is much harder to know whats right or wrong and it can make things scary for people until someone tells them its not true.... Producing function I think arent sensitive to input however generate output... this is why mirror relations can get into fights and bug each other out, cause one produces Ne for example and the other one has to feel it and suffer it. fortunatly a smart ENTp would be able to eventually prove why the INTj's Ne is wrong and then reject the proposed reality. This is also why its hard to prove things to ENTjs using Ti, unless the work is presented and backed up in the Te format.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    ENTp.... topology....




    If I had the motivation and Fe/Si input I think I could reduce the entire model-A into one simple math formula and then unify mathematics with it... but I am lazy and don't feel like rationalizing my life that much yet... maybe when I get old I'll write a book about it.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    Geo/Trig was the easiest and most useful for me *shrug*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    Geo/Trig was the easiest and most useful for me *shrug*
    Your missing the point... its not about what you learn and do, its about what you always have done and don't realize you do. someone else will make a math out of u but you wont make a math out of yourself.


    BTW according to my mental socionics model I think that an ENTp would be able to turn an ENTj into a criminal, and vice versa... by suggesting logical truths that they themselves wouldnt act upon to the others accepting function. So I think that making jokes between quasis isnt a good idea... like... ENTp: hey ENTj man... We should just kill off all the slackers in this company and make it run better...
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    I was terrible at Geometry.
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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    nm... Slava is bitchy.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    Geo/Trig was the easiest and most useful for me *shrug*
    Your missing the point... its not about what you learn and do, its about what you always have done and don't realize you do. someone else will make a math out of u but you wont make a math out of yourself.
    No, Im not missing the point. I am primarily a visual learner and your idea will not work. The difference is, I realize I do this.

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    Arrrggg.... school geometry is Te!! its axiom based system, I'm not talking about what you do but how you perceive the world, based on little hints ive pieced together. just because you didnt do well in a class or something doesnt mean diddly. there is no way to put urself in another shoes with this, you can only do this with Ne and still you cant see it through their eyes directly.

    And most people are visual... and im not talkign about learnign even, im talking about mental perception... everyone visualizes something... but its a different dimension and a different model. Also even if you do not consciously visualize what you do, it still comes out as a result of some model that was visualized... so yeah you can tell me... but slava u dont know what ur talking about, i dont visualize things at all.... ill tell u this.... yes you do visualize, you just arent aware of it, which is fine... its not always good to sit in low level congition all the time, there are background processes that you do not have to consider once you come to trust them. Yeah i know im being bitchy, but thats what happens when people annoy you with irrelevant subjective invalidations. so stop putting sticks and sand in my ass.
    -Slava


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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    someone else will make a math out of u but you wont make a math out of yourself.
    *covered face and laughed*

  18. #18
    Creepy-pokeball

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    someone else will make a math out of u but you wont make a math out of yourself.
    *covered face and laughed*
    Yeah, that reminded me of Nickolodeon's Pinwheel from when I was a kid. The main characters' names were Plus and Minus

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    Btw... sequential dialog is the equivalant of object serialization in the Java programming language. Things are "painted" in the mind continuous or structural. some people cannot buffer certain kinds of info so they can only paint tiny images before they begin to look around the room with a a sad look of lower confidence. I often see people memorizing the words that others have spoken rather than a simple model that is all simplifies to. no point in memorizing a megabyte pixel by pixel image of a circle, when all you had to do is paint the circle in your mind from the serialized description, and then simplify it to a vector image.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    I'm back, assholes! Herzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    there is no way to put urself in another shoes with this, you can only do this with Ne and still you cant see it through their eyes directly.
    lmfao
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy
    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    there is no way to put urself in another shoes with this, you can only do this with Ne and still you cant see it through their eyes directly.
    lmfao
    Let me clarify what i meant... all functions let you put yourself in anothers shoes, but what i meant was in an Ne sense where you think about their internal statics of their perception using top down method collected from little hints about it. there I hope i didnt offend initally... i just hate speaking in such detail.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    What kind of type gets lost really easily in new places and likes arithmetic a lot but is not too fond of other branches of math

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Ne people tend to connect ideas and data. Ne people know how to get from place to place via intersection connections but do not know the map geometry and often have trouble rerouting their path of travel in unfamiliar areas using geographical references such as mountains and such. Ne people forget what they look like and what things look like. Ne people love concept maps. Ne people dont know when too much cologn or perfum is too much once they get used to it......
    Yeah that ENTp was always uber confident in this shit and we ended up multiple times lost until I kicked his arse
    I'm starting to get really good with road topology, and I think my Se has bee developing lately so now I use geography more to navigate like following a river, or knowing that something is parallel and then figuring out north and south... basically knowing that other places in space exist and dont move around to fuck with me... INTjs suck balls at navigating oh god.... and they make a mess in your car too and dont take responsibility... beware!
    i've never been lost in my life and would consider myself a veritable compass

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    What method do you use to navigate?
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    a very unsound one

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