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Thread: ENFj/EIE Subtypes

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    Default ENFj/EIE Subtypes

    I've recently come across an ENFj Ni subtype, and you wouldn't really spot the Fe dominance at first: they look much more introverted than an INFp Fe, for example.

    What's your experience with them?


    ---------------------------------------


    Ethical subtype Fe-ENFj (Fe-EIE)

    Description by V. Meged and A. Ovcharov


    Fe-EIE Appearance:
    The ethical subtype is internally very emotional, but usually modest and restrained in expression of his feelings. Unobtrusive in conversation, tries to behave according to the rules of good tone and manners. Vulnerable and easily takes offense. In his heart and soul he often experiences dramatic emotions, but around strangers hides and tries to control them. It is difficult for him to truly relax, inside he is tense and high-strung, vulnerable and quite self-loving. Has a lot of insecurities, from which he usually suffers but tries not to show this. Outwardly can be proud and unapproachable. Usually secretive and careful, exercises foresight and thinks things over in advance. Somewhat unsure in himself, but has patience and perseverance, and knows how to attain his goals. Very demanding in requiring others to observe ethical norms of behavior, and often cannot hold himself back from making remarks or giving advice when he sees that someone, from his point of view, is not behaving correctly. Characterized by swings of mood. Can be coldly haughty, stubborn, and demanding, then soft, heartfelt, considerate, and even vulnerable and defenseless. Holds himself with dignity. His movements are precise, but smooth, sometimes demonstrative. Dresses modestly and with taste, but if he wishes can look very effective.

    Fe-EIE Character:
    Inclined to constant analysis of people and events. Thinks a lot about moral and ethical issues. Tries to instill in others his own understanding of various phenomena or his worldview, to help avoid mistakes in life in general or in specific activities.

    Exercises foresight and caution. Senses impending dangers, knows how to take the necessary steps to avoid it. Inclined to dramatize events and to warn others about possible trouble. Tries to caution and safeguard people close to him from making wrong steps. Can show excessive initiative, even seem somewhat imposing. With strangers he is charming and helpful, usually tries to make a good impression. Warm and welcoming, has a wide circle of friends, open and sincere with them, but to a limit.

    While he foresees further development of events, he doesn't like to rush them, hesitates making a decision, wavers, weighting out all the "pros" and "cons". Doesn't like when he is hurried. Ignores the attempts of others to impose any other pace. In conversation, gives a lot of attention to details.

    Often takes the initiative in making acquaintances and contacts. Oriented at correct, appropriate, polite attitude towards himself. Needs sensitive, attentive, careful relation to his person, intolerant of familiarity in communication. Self-loving, sensitive and vulnerable, for a long remembers offenses and insults. Respects people not only for their personal qualities and achievements, but also for their position in society. Tries to understand the motives and predict future actions of people around him, to give them timely advice.

    A romantic in his soul, put feelings above reason. Emotional, with difficulty hides his sufferings and emotions, but in deeds usually demonstrates caution. Only after carefully weighting everything out can make a radical decision. After that, not inclined to make compromises. He would rather suffer a defeat than renounce his beliefs, as he has a tendency for self-suggestion. Distrustful by nature, skeptically oriented, critical towards the actions of others. Appreciates words, but prefers concrete evidence of affections and practical services. Nitpicking when it comes to his outward appearance, takes care of his looks and his manners of behavior.

    Values ​​his authority and reputation of a serious person. Distrustful of unverified information. Afraid to make a mistake, prefers to share responsibility for some assignment or task with someone else. Proactive, operative, diligent, seriously considers work that was assigned to him. Does not like doing several things at once, but when he feels that he cannot delay any longer, can with much energy and vigor complete a significant bulk of work within a short period of time.

    Usually focused on important problems, from which it's difficult to distract him. In the interests of his project or business, turns to other people to fulfill small requests and assignments, fearing that he might lose sight of something important. Accurate with details in his work, brings everything to its finish. Strives toward order and aesthetics in everyday life. Meticulously about his appearance, following the appearance and behavior.

    Has difficulty attaining an inner balance. Due to this, is often in suppressed mood. Overly suspicious, prone to seeing dangers, proud. Doesn't like when he is being observed and watch, inclined to do his household tasks when nobody can witness him. Sufficiently self-critical, mistrustful of compliments in his address. Painfully endures criticism of his appearance and behavior.

    Fe-EIE Description by Victor Gulenko: Very emotionally excitable, can be sharp. Shows high intensity of emotions. Decisive and artistic. Easily given to ecstasy, high affect, exaltation. Has aristocratic manners. Frequently a good speaker, or a political leader with patriotic inclinations. Internally dramatic and spontaneous, likes to demonstrate his opinion. Outwardly he can shock people around him by extremes in how he dresses: may looks like a homeless person with soiled sleeves, or, to the contrary, dress very brightly, vividly, or aristocratically extravagantly.


    Sexual behavior of subtypes: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...s_and_Subtypes


    Intuitive subtype Ni-ENFj (Ni-EIE)

    Description by V. Meged and A. Ovcharov


    Ni-EIE Appearance:
    The intuitive subtypes makes an impression of a serious, active, sociable person. An original, unpredictable, creative personality. Sociable, inquisitive and communicable. Quite emotional, vulnerable, and impressionable. Internally tense, experiences frequent doubts and oscillations, due to which can be unpredictable in his actions. At times can be hot tempered and sharp in his statements. Very artistic, emotionally uninhibited, easily and freely expresses how he feels. Well perceptive of the moods of others and skillfully directs them. Knows how to speak with emotion and inspiration, sometimes even pathos. Very ironic and critical, can be stinging and arrogant. When in good spirits he can become the center of attention of any group. Sufficiently practical, but doesn't have enough self-assurance and confidence. At times he dresses somewhat unusually and extravagantly, other times simply and modestly. His movements and gusty, impulsive, but not unconstrained, and seem somewhat inhibited.

    Ni-EIE Character:
    A good strategist, who has a real sense of his chances, capable of selecting the right moment for making certain actions. Able to properly distribute events over time. Likes striking up useful business contacts, has organizational abilities. Not afraid of taking up major projects and work, which he can't always handle due to overestimation of his capabilities. Evaluating general patterns, selects the important aspects, but getting distracted by new problems can postpone doing main work.

    Eloquent, a good speaker, who can speak with inspiration, expressing various shades of emotions - from admiration and excitement, to subtle irony and sarcasm. While at this, he may be unconsciously fantasizing, imparting tones of sensationalism or dramaticism to his narrative. Has a developed sense of humor, knows how to copy voices or mannerisms of behavior of other people. Being quite demonstrative in his behavior, he's often in the center of attention. Knows how to win over an audience. Makes a vivid impression on others. Has the talent of persuasion. Knows how to captivate people with his idea and become their leader.

    His unending interest in people contributes to him expanding his social circle. In connection to this, may spend a lot of time interacting with people who will later disappoint him. When he is in a good mood, he is amiable, lively, gives compliments, admires abilities of others, is the soul of the company and readily helps people in solving their problems. In a bad mood, he is pensive, gloomy, pessimistic, and seeks solitude. Distrustful by nature, skeptical, critical of the actions of others. Appreciates words, but prefers concrete evidence of feelings and practical services.

    Feels constant inner emotional tension. Needs to periodically spill out accumulated emotions. In routine, his vitality wanes. To come out of this state, can commit reckless actions that he later regrets. Can be inconsistent and unpredictable in his actions. Courageous and decisive in extreme situations.

    Often idealizes a loved person and for him/her is capable of making various sacrifices. Knows how to beautifully express his feelings. Very sensitively feels his failures and disappointments. Independent in his judgment and not seldom tries to justify those who are condemned by everyone else. Quite categorical in his statements: considers that liberalism won't help to bring order to society. Does not tolerate evil. In defending those who were wronged or his ideas is not considerate of authority.

    Impatient, doesn't like waiting. Feels weighed down by uncertainty. Discipline and tight control are oppressive to him. He prefers to have creative freedom. Believes in unlimited human abilities and loves to demonstrate his own. Interested in the mythological and occult, in unusual mysterious phenomena, may be superstitious. A bit hypochondriac, afraid of getting sick, but cannot systematically take care of his health. Reluctantly talks about the topics of his own health and appearance. Tries to dress with good taste, some times strictly and elegantly, other times spectacularly and extravagantly, and at times even casually and carelessly. Does not like extraneous things.

    Ni-EIE Description by Victor Gulenko: Predisposed to reflect, to experience internal doubts and oscillations. Thinks figuratively, has an inclination towards philosophy. Not very critical towards external appearances, undemanding in food. Reserved, vulnerable, can seem internally broken. Speaks his opinions unobtrusively. Responsible and punctual. He is a good teacher, mentor, educator, who can interest his listeners. Outwardly seems calm. Consistent in presenting his material.
    Last edited by silke; 08-26-2017 at 08:09 PM. Reason: updated with translations
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    once you get to know them the quietness vanishes. also look out for major mood swings.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    i've been thinking i am ENFj lately. but the one i know... is way more outgoing than me.

    but thing is, i REALLY thrive on attention from people. i just had an incident when i was younger that kinda traumatized me.. and made me shy/have low self-esteem.

    now as time goes on, my social anxiety like qualities are vanishing and i'm becoming very people-oriented ... but i'm still extremely shy around people i don't know.

    but when you do get to know me, i can talk your ear off.

    i still think i'm INFp though.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    now as time goes on, my social anxiety like qualities are vanishing and i'm becoming very people-oriented ... but i'm still extremely shy around people i don't know.

    but when you do get to know me, i can talk your ear off.

    i still think i'm INFp though.
    NiFe's are generally people oriented as well. Especially watching people. And by gosh, get one going and there's not shutting em up!!!!!

    *plugs her ears*
    :wink:
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    My sister is somewhere between ENFj and INFp. She might be ENFj. I don't know. Hence, this topic interests me. How to recognize and ENFj who is not organizing a class reunion. What's common among all ENFjs? Are all ENFjs the kind of attention-seeking extroverted ethical rational powerhungry monsters?

    Mhh... my sisters could have Te-PoLR, but I heard somewhere that creative sub might blur the differences between program and role. That would mean that if she was ENFj Ni-sub, she should have a rather strong Te. mhhh.... Any thoughts?
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    @Kristiina

    Regardless of the subtype, as long as someone is ENFj they will still have > preference. The is "strong" only in relation to the other subtpypes.

    Anyway, perhaps this will help:

    From Meged:

    ARTIST

    Intuitive subtype - original creative personality, extravagant and not predicted. It is very inquisitive and talkative. It is sufficiently emotional, we wound vpechatlitelen. It is internally stressed, frequent doubts and fluctuations are experienced, because of what it is sufficiently variable in its solutions. It occurs quick tempered and cuttings. Very artistichen, is emotional raskreposhchen, easily and freely are expressed its feelings. The mood of others feels well and it skillfully it governs. He speaks with a feeling and enthusiasm, even with the enthusiasm. It is very ironic, critical, it is sometimes caustic and haughty. In a good mood it can become the center of attention to any company. It is sufficiently practical, although to it confidence does not be sufficient in itself. The impression of business, active and sociable person is produced. It dresses sometimes uncommonly and extravagantly, and sometimes simply it is modest. The motions are irregular, are impulsive, but not flattened, but stopped up.
    And from Gulenko:

    He is predisposed to reflection, internal fluctuations and doubts. Thinks figuratively, is philosophically inclined. He isn’t so critical to his appearance and food he eats. Reserved, vulnerable, may be even broken, expresses himself softly-softly, he is responsible and punctual. He is a good tutor and teacher, may carry away his students. He is quiet, consecutive in statement of a material.
    So it seems that an ENFj intuitive subtype can indeed make an "introverted" impression.


    And as a bonus:

    ENFj Intuitive subtype: it is inclined to idealize the object of love, it is very touchy, we wound and it is emotional. It strongly survives its enthusiasm and it frequently dramatizes events. Even if it is confident in the reciprocity, it occurs contradictory and not predicted in its behavior. It can be in the intimate life original, passionate and sexual, or suddenly it begins to manifest haughtiness, coldness and tendency toward the inconstancy. There is much expression in the manifestation of the emotions of different nuances. It is jealous and distrustful. Because of the tendency to accumulate emotions, for it are necessary periodic emotional dischargings - quarrel and reconciliations. Commands moderately emotional, thoughtful persistent and initiative-taking partner, who knows how to quiet, to encourage, to inspire confidence in his feelings.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    The good, the bad, and the ugly...somehow, it all seems to make sense now.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    i've been thinking i am ENFj lately. but the one i know... is way more outgoing than me.

    but thing is, i REALLY thrive on attention from people. i just had an incident when i was younger that kinda traumatized me.. and made me shy/have low self-esteem.

    now as time goes on, my social anxiety like qualities are vanishing and i'm becoming very people-oriented ... but i'm still extremely shy around people i don't know.

    but when you do get to know me, i can talk your ear off.

    i still think i'm INFp though.
    You're one of the purest INFp, Fe subtypes I've ever seen. And I'm certain you're my identical.

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    My sister is somewhere between ENFj and INFp. She might be ENFj. I don't know. Hence, this topic interests me. How to recognize and ENFj who is not organizing a class reunion. What's common among all ENFjs? Are all ENFjs the kind of attention-seeking extroverted ethical rational powerhungry monsters?
    I doubt it. I think the majority of the ENFj descriptions are highly flawed. They seem biased and highly dramatized (which I thought was ironic).


    lol my class reunion is any year now. We're all gonna have an anti-reunion in South East Oregon by camping/hiking instead of attending the controlled zergfest of peons non-party party that is so eloquently called a class reunion.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    i've been thinking i am ENFj lately. but the one i know... is way more outgoing than me.

    but thing is, i REALLY thrive on attention from people. i just had an incident when i was younger that kinda traumatized me.. and made me shy/have low self-esteem.

    now as time goes on, my social anxiety like qualities are vanishing and i'm becoming very people-oriented ... but i'm still extremely shy around people i don't know.

    but when you do get to know me, i can talk your ear off.

    i still think i'm INFp though.
    You're one of the purest INFp, Fe subtypes I've ever seen. And I'm certain you're my identical.
    aww hehe =) this post makes me happy for some reason.

    it's cool how you feel that i'm your identical. i'm gonna go check out some of your posts/threads and see if i feel so as well.

    curious: what about me makes you say i'm "one of the purest INFp, Fe subtypes.."?

    ALSO... the only one thing that makes me doubt I'm INFp is my relationship with ENFps. I get along fabulously with them, as well as with ENFjs.


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    snegledmaca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    aww hehe =) this post makes me happy for some reason.

    it's cool how you feel that i'm your identical. i'm gonna go check out some of your posts/threads and see if i feel so as well.
    Ugh, that's not really necessary as I'm certain you won't identify. Nothing personal it's just that I'm highly conscious of the image I present.

    curious: what about me makes you say i'm "one of the purest INFp, Fe subtypes.."?
    Actually, it's something you said on the now gone intuitive forum. I think it was one of your first posts or the first post. The doubt you had felt was so natural and it kinda felt so natural to be in your position.
    I think you were wondering about something, your type I think, and mentioned some reasons that would not make you that type, INFP, while I just though how ironic it was that those very things make you an INFp. Something about not being the tender sweet little bunny wabit they present as INFP.

    ALSO... the only one thing that makes me doubt I'm INFp is my relationship with ENFps. I get along fabulously with them, as well as with ENFjs.
    So do most INFp-s.

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    I'm an ENFj Ni subtype, and my experiences with myself have been very mixed.
    I agree with you, Jadae. In my experience, it seems that many ENFJs aren't strongly expressed extroverts, and thus most descriptions 'over-do it,' to a degree. However, they describe the inner-life pretty well--an ever-swirling, dramatic, lustful tumult.

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    Interesting. Im wondering if the subtype can also appear as a P person, in addition to appearing an introvert?

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    If the theory-ette of Socionics is true, then I believe subtypes exist. Why? I dont know because Socionics reportedly doesnt not work on a sliding scale. For example, in MBTI, I always score as an Fe primary with overly strong Ni. In Socionics, it is not possible to give functions strength :/ At least that is what the almighty texts say (or I missed something, take your pick).

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    lol this guy is hilarious

    And just to confuse you Jadae, Ill add this subtype decsription to this thread:


    Ethical subtype: it is subjected to doubts and fluctuations, it is not confident in itself. It does not love to display initiative in the erotic. It is inclined to analyze behavior of partner. With those, whom it loves - it is sensitive and thoughtful. Rapidly it gets tired from the routine. Is sufficiently sentimental, romantic in the soul. The aim is stable relations, it is constant in its attachments, it is legible in the connections very of vpechatlitelen, it does not pardon roughness and incorrect behavior. The serious, imperturbable, correct and self-possessed partner is necessary to it. This subtype it commands industrious, that knows, what wants that knowing how to scatter any doubts of men.
    That too, sounds introverted...

  16. #16
    Creepy-pokeball

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    I was just discussing that veiw elsewhere! Cool, lol. That does sound like me.


    Im trying to figure out the connections with subtypes but I keep landing no where. This is worse than the rubix cube!

    "The serious, imperturbable, correct and self-possessed partner is necessary to it. "

    I like the idea of someone like this. Someone that keeps to their word makes me feel very secure.

    btw, this all started because my INTj friend declared something to the effect of, "Youre an ENF_ or Im not human." He basically thought the idea of me being an INFj was ludicrous


    .... I miss Pren (aka Pren-ster). I hope he is doing well. The last time I talked to him he still had a 4.0 for 3 years of academics. The academic ho beat me out by .3 points!

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    Haha.

    I couldnt imagine myself as a J/rational type(though I know they are not the same...) even though people have suggested it to me before, especially since I usually score xNFP on tests, and behave in a way which would make you think "p" about me if J is organized, methodical, hardworking, planner etc - at least thats the image we get from reading the decsriptions.

    Recently Ive been thinking I could be ENFj myself, especially since I think the socionics decsriptions generally fit me in that regard, including the subtypes(Id lean more towards intuitive, so far as it seems...).

    I originally thought I was ENFp, which may not have been far from the truth after all...

    but Im confused too, lol.

    Personally, I dont think a person's type can ever be defined for sure...unless out of faith, like you beleive in your mind you are this and that type.

    I decided that I would take a break from typing for a while, clear my head for a long time, and then come back when Im really seeing myself differently, and start with a clean slate, so to speak. But its way too addictive, lol! I cant help but thinking about my own type, its a question that wont let me go, even though I dont think I will ever have faith in the answer, if I find it. I feel now that I can look at people in a much more common sense manner, like in terms of their motives, which is more interesting in my opinion. So as far as type is concerned, Im feeling curious, though not convinced of its existence.



  18. #18
    Creepy-pokeball

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    I'll try to translate the ENFj subtypes soon. Maybe that will help.

    I think NF's as a whole are a pain in the ass to differentiate for reasons discussed before. We are such social chamaleons. It is how we survive in that bad ass world out there! Unfortunately it makes us difficult to organize into neat little packages-- especially since we pick up a lot from others in order to blend. Like Expat has inferred before concerning NF's, Fi is easier to spot than Fe is but not by much.

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    Kristiina's Avatar
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    I'm very strongly rational type. There is no doubt about that, but I seem to have a very low energy compared to ENFjs. From simply my own perspective, I would say that intuitive subtype ENFj is the arrogant power-hungry INFj. Maybe.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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  20. #20
    Creepy-pokeball

    Default ENFj subtypes

    ENFj: Fe/Ni

    Educator- Ethical subtype(Fe), producing subtype.

    The Educator tries to behave in a way that creates social harmony. Even though it is internally turbulent, is appears modest and restrained. It is highly sensitive yet tough so it does not give into the will or control of strangers. Similarly, it's internal turbulence does not give into it's strong sense of pride. It is very complex and stormy but, outwardly, it is proud and inaccessible. It is usually reserved, careful and pre-emptive in it's actions.

    The Educator's rapid change of mood is characteristic of itself. It's mood can easily swing from cold to haughty to obstinate to demanding to soft to sincere to courteous and even to defenseless. Like previous contrasts, it can sometimes act unsure of itself. However, it is very patient as well as persistent and can arrive at it's intentions. It is highly aware of ethical standards of behavior. It frequently speaks about this awareness when anyone breaks these standards.

    The Educator's motions are smooth and somewhat emphasized in order to emphasize meaning. It dresses modestly with decent taste.

    Artist- Intuitive subtype (Ni), creative subtype.

    The Artist is an original and creative personality that is extravagant and not very predictable. It is very inquisitive and talkative. It is highly emotional and sensitive. Due to what it sees as variable solutions, it is internally stressed and has frequent doubts about issues. It can appear very aristocratic in nature. At one moment is may be quick tempered. At another moment, it may be very emotional and expressive.

    The Artist is skilled at governing the moods of others. It speaks with feeling and enthusiasm.. It is very ironic, critical and sarcastic. In a good mood it can be the center of attention to any social gathering. It is sufficiently practical but not practical towards itself. The impression of very busy and sociable person is produced.

    The Artist's motions are irregular, impulsive and jagged. It dresses in an extravagant and outlandish manner but it can sometimes be modest, too.

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    If ENFj, Id be the Educator according to this set of subtypes.

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    Kristiina's Avatar
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    Due to what it sees as variable solutions, it is internally stressed and has frequent doubts about issues. It can appear very aristocratic in nature. At one moment is may be quick tempered. At another moment, it may be very emotional and expressive.
    This is the part I identified with the most. I'm more Ni-subtype than Fe-subtype for sure. I don't feel very artistic or original or unpredictable, but but the general description is quite accurate.

    Jadae, thanks for the translation.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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  23. #23
    Creepy-pokeball

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    No problem. I may change that sentence again. These are just beta versions. A lot is misrepresented in the translations so making them fit together as a whole is troublesome. Sentences like the one you pointed out kind of stick out as strange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    If ENFj, Id be the Educator according to this set of subtypes.
    Same here

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    oh wow.. I'm the Ni subtype 2...

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    My dad is actually an educator (retired teacher) but I think he's more the other subtype.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    I thought N subtype was meant to be more mellow and reflective. This descrip makes it sound even more melodramatic than the F subtype.

    My mum is F subtype I think.
    female ISTj, sensory subtype

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    There are so many subtype descriptions everywhere and everyone defines them differently. It seems these descriptions say that:
    *program function subtype is more clearly EJ
    *creative function subtype is so similar to the mirror that she's almost IP.

    This used to be the thing that was talked about in the forum about a year ago, but I think it has changed into this:
    *program function subtype has very obvious program function and they don't put so much emphasis on the role . The border between creative and PoLR however can be rather blurry. ENFj subtype borders with ESFj subtype and it can be difficult to tell the types apart. That's when we need to take a closer look at Reinin dichotomies, Gulenko sexual attitudes, general quadra values and relations. You won't really confuse the subtype with ESTj or ENTj.
    *creative function subtype has very clear creative function and they are probably more likely to have problems with PoLR. The program and role can be rather blurry. Similar to ENTj subtype. Less likely to confuse with any type.

    ...................................
    ....... .. ............
    .............\/..................
    ............./\..................
    ....... .. ............
    ...................................

    subtype has equal and and weak
    subtype has equal and and weak
    both have EJ temperament, first one seems more extroverted.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    Now that I read these over more carefully I realize I could be the artist, too. I identify with both but it seemed to me from reading those that the Fe subtype was more reserved and the intuitive was the insane one, ie he was exuberant and extraverted looking.

    I wonder Kristiina, why you think that the Intuitive sounds more IP? He could sound kinda EP to me as well. Am I making sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon
    Now that I read these over more carefully I realize I could be the artist, too. I identify with both but it seemed to me from reading those that the Fe subtype was more reserved and the intuitive was the insane one, ie he was exuberant and extraverted looking.

    I wonder Kristiina, why you think that the Intuitive sounds more IP? He could sound kinda EP to me as well. Am I making sense?
    I agree, it's just a generally percieving-souding description, so it could be either IP or EP. The difference is - there are no EP types that are similar enough to ENFjs to be of any significance in this context. Aside from that there used to be actual talk that creative function subtype resembles the mirror type.

    There is some basis to this talk - I'm ENFj Ni sub and my sister is INFp Fe sub. People who barely know us would see her as more extroverted... She's very active - always running around, doing stuff, so you could almost say "proactive" and I seem to be contemplating about the world and things, trying to figure out stuff, you could almost say "relaxed". Still, I wouldn't switch the types, because I'm clearly ENFj and she's clearly INFp.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    That's what I'd like to meet... somebody who is my dual but doesn't act too extraverted or gushy.
    female ISTj, sensory subtype

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    The 2 ISTjs I know talk more than I do (ENFj-Fe) and, on average, probably say more words per day than my ever-so-annoying-ENFp-ex.

    But get me hyper... and it's all down hill.

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    That's fine, as long as it's not all day every day like some extraverts are. Life would be boring if nobody ever got excited.

    When one is around my mum she takes up all the social space, there is no room to just be. Everybody has to be "on", everything seems unreal and kind of tense, as if we were all performing instead of just being together.

    A friend of hers is even more so, she wants everyone to stay forever, when you say you have to go she says "No you don't, now sit down, I'll make you something to eat, would you like some of this bread, this salad" etc. It's very sweet but also totally exhausting. I couldn't live with somebody like that.
    female ISTj, sensory subtype

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon
    Now that I read these over more carefully I realize I could be the artist, too. I identify with both but it seemed to me from reading those that the Fe subtype was more reserved and the intuitive was the insane one, ie he was exuberant and extraverted looking.

    I wonder Kristiina, why you think that the Intuitive sounds more IP? He could sound kinda EP to me as well. Am I making sense?
    I agree, it's just a generally percieving-souding description, so it could be either IP or EP. The difference is - there are no EP types that are similar enough to ENFjs to be of any significance in this context. Aside from that there used to be actual talk that creative function subtype resembles the mirror type.

    There is some basis to this talk - I'm ENFj Ni sub and my sister is INFp Fe sub. People who barely know us would see her as more extroverted... She's very active - always running around, doing stuff, so you could almost say "proactive" and I seem to be contemplating about the world and things, trying to figure out stuff, you could almost say "relaxed". Still, I wouldn't switch the types, because I'm clearly ENFj and she's clearly INFp.
    The reason I bring it up is because I used to score as ENFP all the time on tests, and I do think that ENFps can resemble ENFjs as can any quasi identical. Why do you think they dont, exactly?

    Ive known some INFps who are exactly like your sister - if it werent for their INFp vibe you would think them extroverts, because they are so sociable. They also give the impression they are rich somehow, am I mistaken?

    By the way, I am alot like you are, more reflective and dreamy, than sociable and gushy all the time.




    ENFj intuitive subtype, by that description at least is kinda extroverted, whereas the ethical seems more relaxed. Its kinda the other way around in Gulenko's subtypes, which is why I bring it up. It kinda hit me that the intuitive subtype is kinda paradoxal here, for a dynamic type, kinda EPish. I also think that this is not impossible since real people will not look like theoretical dichotomies, in my opinion, they will be some strange mix of characteristics will appear to you as completely natural, asopposed to programmed to fit the dichotomies. But it must be emphasized, for what its worth, that some subtype descriptions seem different than others, perhaps in ways that kinda matter.

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    Well Very Ni-one here
    The Description is Right, also from my practice - Ni ENFjs can be not talkative sometimes but in case they forced/choose to do so and in that case they "talking" with very concentrated Fe flow, very intence.
    Ni Creative

    there are 3 levels of sword mastery :
    1.: ability to win with sword in your hand.
    2.: ability to win without sword in your hand, but in your soul.
    3, and the hightest one: without having sword nor in hand not in soul be able to win and bring peace to people.

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    strange... the extravert type is modest and restraint and the introvert type is more talkative inquisitive and quick tempered

    shouldn't they be switched?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    strange... the extravert type is modest and restraint and the introvert type is more talkative inquisitive and quick tempered

    shouldn't they be switched?
    I agree. I like the house rule that Fe-subtype is the one you could confuse for ESFj and the Ni-subtype is the one you could confuse for INFp. Expat and Rick seriously considered that I could be INFp, so it's safe to assume that I'm Ni-subtype. I can sometimes be quick tempered and I can be inquisitive, but it's not how I would describe myself.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    yep Ni-ENFj can look not so Extraverted at times, its more like "one who knows somewhat/ have something at mind/ keep secrets" , but its kinda-very unpredicatable (but really he is ordered/predictable, cause he acts by following special rules he wants to seed and propagandise) and you can be shocked by very quick switch of action manner. Its very theatrical type and he knows when to be quiet, waiting for moment to act and when to act and attack
    Its like inner timing and like some On-his-own mind guy. But you can recognise him by very strong and intence perception of things that happening around and Fe which is ruled by his inner Ni (time issues/strategies) planning.

    And ... its not like INFp , quiet Ni-ENFj is different and you can recognize him by well-hidden but still noticable hi inner pressure and extreme intence, and move-after-move perfectionality ("Each word and and actions whould be at its own time") and strict following theese timing rules.
    Ni Creative

    there are 3 levels of sword mastery :
    1.: ability to win with sword in your hand.
    2.: ability to win without sword in your hand, but in your soul.
    3, and the hightest one: without having sword nor in hand not in soul be able to win and bring peace to people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorc
    And ... its not like INFp , quiet Ni-ENFj is different and you can recognize him by well-hidden but still noticable hi inner pressure and extreme intence, and move-after-move perfectionality ("Each word and and actions whould be at its own time") and strict following theese timing rules.
    very very true for me. I could be INFp is I wasn't so tense about rules of how and when and why things should happen.

    Another way to separate an Ni-ENFj from an INFp is the ENFj's tendency to change everything/everyone else when something isn't going by plan. INFps would accept what's going on in the world, but ENFj just keeps trying to change the world to fit his vision of it. I still often argue with my ESTj dad, trying to change his views so that we could agree (he does the same thing), but my INFp sister just says, "we have different opinions." and almost never argues with dad.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    i am Ni too ,and i can be inquisitive and quick tempered in case it was "approved" by myself to myself by my Ni-self. Quick-tempering for Ni-type looks more unpredictable and surprising cause most of people cant understan what they can suspec from them till they see it happen. (Si dudses hehe ). Also i am quick tempering with my mom that is ESFj and young (18 y older than me) so when i near her i am more like Fe-subtype.
    Ni Creative

    there are 3 levels of sword mastery :
    1.: ability to win with sword in your hand.
    2.: ability to win without sword in your hand, but in your soul.
    3, and the hightest one: without having sword nor in hand not in soul be able to win and bring peace to people.

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