Enneagram type 4

[lemontrees]

Extreme Wisteria
Lucie Brock-Broido

On abandon, uncalled for but called forth.
The hydrangea
Of   her crushed each year a little more into the attar of   herself.
Pallid. Injured, wildly capable.
A throat to come home to, tupelo.
Lemurs in parlors, inconsolable.
Parlors of burgundy and sleigh. Unseverable fear.
Wistful, woke most every afternoon
In the green rooms of the Abandonarium.
Beautiful cage, asylum in.
Reckless urges to climb celestial trellises that may or may not
Have been there.
So few wild raspberries, they were countable,
Triaged out by hand.
Ten-thousand-count Egyptian cotton sheets. Intimacy with others,
Sateen. Extreme hyacinth as evidence.
Her single subject the idea that every single thing she loves
Will (perhaps tomorrow) die.
High editorial illusion of   “Control.” Early childhood: measles,
Scarlet fevers;
Cleopatra for most masquerades, gold sandals, broken home.
Convinced Gould’s late last recording of the Goldberg Variations
Was put down just for her. Unusual coalition of early deaths.
Early middle deaths as well. Believed, despite all evidence,
In afterlife, looked hopelessly for corroborating evidence of   such.
Wisteria, extreme.
There was always the murmur, you remember, about going home.

[Aylen]

He is pretty.

[Aylen]

I am thinking sx/sp 458 (in that order).

Bury all your secrets in my skin
Come away with innocence, and leave me with my sins
The air around me still feels like a cage
And love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...

So if you love me, let me go.
And run away before I know.
My heart is just too dark to care.
I can't destroy what isn't there.
Deliver me into my fate -
If I'm alone I cannot hate
I don't deserve to have you...

My smile was taken long ago
If I can change I hope I never know

I still press your letters to my lips
And cherish them in parts of me that savor every kiss
I couldn't face a life without your lights
But all of that was ripped apart when you refused to fight

So save your breath, I will not hear.
I think I made it very clear.
You couldn't hate enough to love.
Is that supposed to be enough?
I only wish you weren't my friend.
Then I could hurt you in the end.
I never claimed to be a saint...

Ooh, my own was banished long ago
It took the death of hope to let you go

So break yourself against my stones
And spit your pity in my soul
You never needed any help
You sold me out to save yourself
And I won't listen to your shame
You ran away - you're all the same
Angels lie to keep control...

Ooh, my love was punished long ago
If you still care, don't ever let me know
If you still care, don't ever let me know...

[silke]

4w3 sp/sx (Kathryn Mannix) - quite representative of the 4/8 axis of life and death

[Chae]

[Chae]

Four meets six like

[Chae]

[silke]

Brett Anderson from Suede - 4w5 SEI-Fe (so/sx?)








Karen McDougal - 4w5 so/sx (SEI-Fe?)

[PrettySavage]

Karen McDougal - 4w5 so/sx (SEI-Fe?)

Why is she a 4w5?

[maniac]

Attachment 13036

also just a universal truth (i think)

[silke]

this is kind of interesting discussion on the differences between 9 and 4:


"One way to do this (4 vs 9), imo, is to crank up (in abstract space) some of the pure fixated qualities and their specific 'problems'.

E.g.: 4s can hate/despise better than any other type. 'Better', meaning in a focused/lasering articulated way. 9s who mistype as 4s will usually recoil, to some degree, at that idea -- the idea that 4s, as a type, are the masters of targeted personal hate aimed at specific individuals, although 4-hate can (and often does) include general hatred for humanity or other groups, etc.

In roughly the same zone as hate (the general topic of Anger), 9s, in interior space, are much more 'nonverbal' in their anger. Anger, when it (finally) arises in a significant way, is flush through the body and calls out for physical manifestation in a way that's fairly foreign to 4.

iow, 9 anger is 'dumb' and brutish in the sense that it (unconsciously) fantasizes some form of physical annhilation of the other, per the Gut Center. -- 4 anger/hate is generally 'smart' and has a higher vibration, higher center of gravity, up in head/heart space.

4s are 'granulating' their emotions, to some degree, meaning there's a Head/Heart ping pong that has a sharpening quality to it; it fine-tunes the wording/vocabulary of feelings, it 'anunciates' clearly, compared to the Gut grunts.
4 chooses specific poisons, particular venoms. And the 4 inner dynamic amplifies feelings, because negative discriminating thinking (the nextdoor magnetic neighbor 5) naturally stokes the flames of negative feeling.

And, per the above, 4s really have no (or minimal) superego messages dictating that hate is 'bad/wrong.' In fact, again, the tendency is to amplify hate (internally) in plenty of instances. This is a big difference -- 9s have much more superego messaging saying that certain feelings are bad/wrong and ought to not even be felt internally.

So, one thing that happens in enneagram forums is that people who are 9s who have mistyped as 4s will say this post (yes, this very post) is me saying 'bad things' about 4s. But now that I've mentioned that, they'll come up with some other workaround. Stubborn. If this (description of an aspect of type 4) sounds *too* negative, too morally/ethically bad and wrong, you may not be a 4.
4s generally see the hatred thing is just a plain simple fact of who they are, kind of nonchalant about it."


"It's amazing (and I've said this before) that when someone accurately describes the type 4 structure in terms of the self-created negativity, focus on frustration, and tendency to feel pointed hatred, that everyone flips out. 4's can be loving and compassionate people just like everyone else when they are healthy. But there is absolutely nothing in the type 4 structure that says "hatred is wrong, keep it positive." There is nothing about 4's that would make them strive for positivity or compassion. Can they be? Sure, just like anyone. But they TAKE NO MORAL ISSUE with expressing negativity or hatred, if anything they enjoy it. It's part of being a Reactive type to say "Hey everyone, there's shit you're all pretending you can't smell!" If you react so negatively to the idea of 4's being comfortable in the space of hatred, you may not be a core 4, and that's completely okay. Do you think Marilyn Manson goes home after his concerts and thinks, "Maybe I shouldn't have screamed about how god is dead and cut myself on stage...I'll be a little more compassionate next time." Reactive types want to hand you your bullshit on a plate, and the more reactive types you have in your tritype, the stronger this gets. It is a superego response to say "I'm a 4 but my negativity is bad." That goes against the 4 ego structure completely. And excuse me for getting too "real," signed this 478."


"Part of being a 4 is not noticing that your reactions have any particular negative effect. If you notice that they do, that might be fine with you since truth is being spoken. Other people can have their negative reactions to your negativity -- so what? 4s are comfortable situations charged with emotions and might not notice themselves being disruptive.

Same goes for seeing the hate aspect of 4 as a dark element -- to 4s, hate & overall negativity is a kind of neutral state: it just is what it is. The nature of fixation is that it repeats and repeats, it doesn't wake up to itself, even when we're deeply immersed in enneagram wisdom and have been working on or looking at this stuff for many years."

[Pallas]

[strrrng]

The entire album is pretty 4-themed but this song embodies it best imo.

[Guillaine]

When Gregor Samsa woke up one morning from unsettling dreams, he found himself changed in his bed into a monstrous vermin.

The Metamorphosis, Kafka line 1.

[Adam Strange]

When Gregor Samsa woke up one morning from unsettling dreams, he found himself changed in his bed into a monstrous vermin.

The Metamorphosis, Kafka line 1.

A really bad hair day.

[Guillaine]

[niffer]

*E4 intensifies*

[ooo]

[lynn]

4w3 sx/sp

[Olimpia]

[Olimpia]

This thread has been filled with 3 fixed people for some reason lately.

Like Enrique... he is 3 fix af.

[Guillaine]

[Guillaine]

i have been thinking about what being a four is for me and about deprivation and how a lot of my issues revolve around it and it is caught up with being a four and always longing for things, pushing them away (depriving myself) then attaching to the emptiness and longing (deprivation). I am trying to work on not doing this and the more I try the more I see how effectively I do it. I came across this article, which rang true. of course the shame is related as the deprivation prbably started with my parents and the shame I felt from wanting love was their projection becasue they were not capable of being vulnerable, couldn't be bothered or as a means f control so then I attach to the shame, their shame. So to escape it I am trying to embrace my needs as valid.

https://tinybuddha.com/blog/9-ways-y...d-fulfillment/

[SaveYourself]

[khullencher]

I never cared for dogs, they smell bad no matter what you do to them... lol...

I mean seriously.. wet dog or generic poop smell or pee in the alleyway? wet dog is like 1.3x as bad

[lynn]

4w5

[lemontrees]

>.< The low level pain is just a backdrop to life.

If you think about it, all of the enneagram types are picking up on something "real." So there's no real reason to not propel yourself through life noticing what's "missing." It's not good to overdo it, to treat yourself or others with contempt, to downgrades things that might be good. But some other types sort of gloss over the cracks, the suffering and the wrongdoings. Seeing the broken and finding redemptive beauty in it can be taken to an extreme, for sure (like amping up your emotions all the time when nothing that bad is happening...), but just as a thread you notice sometimes, when you are walking down the street or in your room, when you talk to someone or when you read the news...when you try to fix something and just can't, it's just a slight thread of pain that runs through everything. It is not the only aspect of living but it is always there. Feels like a sort of "openness" to me, sometimes. Maybe compassion. >.<

[Dauphin]

"The Death of Chatterton"
(Thomas Chatterton: IEI-Ni 4w3 sx/sp?)

[lynn]

4w5

[ashlesha]

[lynn]

[Tenebris]

I am the rare and fabulous ILI-Te 4w3/5

God help you all.

But seriously, I hate being a 4 and its made typing myself a nightmare. I had a good expert friend of mine type me extensively and in detail. So I do not doubt I am a 4, and its complimented well with 8&5 in my tritype. The darkest triad, and the seeming walking contradiction. It makes 100% sense to me though.

[Dauphin]

I am the rare and fabulous ILI-Te 4w3/5

God help you all.

But seriously, I hate being a 4 and its made typing myself a nightmare. I had a good expert friend of mine type me extensively and in detail. So I do not doubt I am a 4, and its complimented well with 8&5 in my tritype. The darkest triad, and the seeming walking contradiction. It makes 100% sense to me though.

I felt some disgust when I realized I was an sx 4... because everyone else on the internet types themselves as sx 4.

[Tenebris]

I felt some disgust when I realized I was an sx 4... because everyone else on the internet types themselves as sx 4.

I thought I was sp/sx but intensity isnt just an sx thing. Its a 4 thing, and I lacked the other factors of sx that are kinda important. So sp/so for me.

I get a lot of shit for being a 4, but since I am self aware. That 4 behavior is tempered withing me and channeled into artistic pursuits and psychological analysis of others. So don't feel too bad. Any facet is useful, but you have to learn how.

[yeves]

[Dauphin]

Now THIS is 4 music:

[silke]

4 so/sx

[Neokortex]

The nature of fixation is that it repeats and repeats, it doesn't wake up to itself, even when we're deeply immersed in enneagram wisdom and have been working on or looking at this stuff for many years."

Urghhh. That's some heavy.... heavy... void of karmic darkness. Oh my gaawwwd!
Erhm, so anyways, where are you guys meet/join up to plot for blowing up the whole world?

4 so/sx

wut???
LOL. DDDDD

[Skepsis]

[Dauphin]

If I had to think of a society whose values most matched with sx 4 it would probably be the Aztecs.
Death, blood, violence, etc. are common obsessions of sx 4s, so it would make the most sense that the society based around ritualized violence would be the most sx 4.