Page 13 of 17 FirstFirst ... 391011121314151617 LastLast
Results 481 to 520 of 649

Thread: Enneagram type 4

  1. #481
    VOGUE PARIS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Neptune Valley
    TIM
    749 sp/sx
    Posts
    70
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo View Post


    Gia - a movie about SX 4.
    Obsessed with Gia Carangi, my first real crush on a girl. She is a counterphobic 6 to the bone. once you know Gia, the movie pretty much cant compare.

    Well, after all the commentary I figured I should leave a song that really emphasized what an unhealthy 4 self pres looks like. Because I like to highlight the paradox that is Sp 4. Yes, they may like to suffer quietly, and may be considered the most practical subtype but actually .. self pres 4 when even at average health, tend to teeter on edge of life by indulging in their vices. So when they say 4s inflict drama, subtypes usually just say on what aspect of life. Honestly, I think it can seem like a real Sx kind of energy but just placed onto vices instead. This is what I was taught a couple years back when dealing with the enneagram community. As for this song... it could actually go with my whole tritype as well, 479 "The gentle spirit" lolol.

    I came across this song from the movie Trainspotting, when I was my absolute worst in new york a few years back. This song helped me feel "Validated" and thus helped me get on my feet and move forward.

    I love late 70s/ 80s kind of dark synthwave more than anything so it just... was magic to me. (Scottish people so you will hear the accent) It's written by Billy Joel, so certainly has that 7 fix to it.



    I've never been closer
    I've tried to understand
    That certain feeling
    Carved by another's hand
    But it's too late to hesitate
    We can't keep on living like this
    Leave no track
    Don't look back

    All I desire
    Temptation
    Keep climbing higher and higher
    Temptation
    Adorable creatures
    Temptation
    With unacceptable features
    Temptation
    Trouble is coming
    Temptation
    It's just the high cost of loving
    Temptation
    You can take it or leave it
    Temptation
    But you'd better believe it

    You've got to make me an offer
    It cannot be ignored
    So let's head for home now
    Everything I have is yours
    Step by step and day by day
    Every second counts I can't break away
    Leave no trace
    Hide your face

    Step by step
    Day by day
    Every second counts
    I can't break away
    Keep us from temptation (x3)
    Lead us not in temptation

    Trying to find it
    Temptation
    You've got to get up behind it
    Temptation
    Put your dime in the hot slot
    Temptation
    But it's a million to one shot
    Temptation
    You think that you're right
    Temptation
    Your gonna face it tonite now
    Temptation
    Give me a breakdown
    Because it's time for a shakedown
    Temptation (x10)


    I have performed the necessary butchery. Here is the bleeding corpse.

    HENRY JAMES, AFTER A REQUEST BY THE TIMES LITERARY SUPPLEMENT TO CUT THREE LINES FROM A 5,000 WORD ARTICLE

    EIE-Ni 479 sp/sx Gentle Spirit





  2. #482
    huiheiwufhawriuhg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    North Africa
    Posts
    1,301
    Mentioned
    163 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Cut me open and you’ll find
    A brain, heart, liver, lungs
    And a knife in the spine

    It’s chilling to know that the last place you go might be where the fat lady sings
    Does it hurt? I don’t know, and where do we go?
    We don’t tease fragile minds with such things

    So sell me down the river
    First help me sell my soul
    It’s something I know I can deliver
    I think we’ve finally broke the mould

    It’s getting harder to know if I’m sane
    My issues are leaking outside of my veins
    Somebody save me or end me, I haven’t yet made up my mind

    If it leads to paranoia, boy, you might want to hit the floor
    Before exposure leads to a metamorphosis we can’t ignore
    Lost in the whisper and hung on a prayer
    If you don’t know where you’re going, any road will take you there

    So sell me down the river
    First help me sell my soul
    It’s something I know I can deliver
    I think we’ve finally broke the mould


    Will I
    Be an end
    To someone’s destiny
    Who’s to know?
    And will I
    Give right in
    To my aggression
    Who’s to know?
    Will I
    Fall apart
    All alone
    Who’s to know?
    Or will I
    Shine right through
    And lay this hate to rest
    With all of you?

    So sell me down the river (down the river)
    First help me sell my soul
    It’s something I know I can deliver
    I think we’ve finally broke the mould



  3. #483
    huiheiwufhawriuhg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    North Africa
    Posts
    1,301
    Mentioned
    163 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's weird that I have never felt proud of being different, I've never felt the need to be different and yet... I still am and I'm deeply ashamed of it and I always try to seem normal and fit myself in, the thing is... I can't. Simply doing what other people do feels like a betrayal, like I'm not my true self and even when I experience all the shame with being different, I can't help myself, but be it. It gives me terrible feelings of insecurity and self pity though, it's like, I just really wish I could be like everyone else, but for some reason I can't and that's not fair.

    I really like The Simpsons and I remember that there was a scene when Lisa became a budhist and Marge was asking her: "Why do you always need to be different? Why can't you be like everyone else?" I have that Marge voice saying this in my mind all the time.


  4. #484
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    3,978
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Olimpia i posted that here a couple of pages ago, lol

  5. #485
    Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    So/Sx Introvert
    Posts
    7,961
    Mentioned
    717 Post(s)
    Tagged
    8 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tela View Post
    @Olimpia i posted that here a couple of pages ago, lol
    Oops.
    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
    Celebs [x] Theory [x] Tumblr [x]

    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



  6. #486
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    3,978
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Oops.
    i didn't mean that you can't post it

  7. #487
    &papu silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5,077
    Mentioned
    456 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    http://www.insightfulinnovations.com...ication-styles

    Enneagram Communication Styles - Type 4
    Talk style: Breathy, lamenting, metaphorical, haughty, symbolic, specializing, discriminating.

    Energy: Fluid, flowing, poised, sensitive, intense, emotionally charged, melancholy.

    Image Statement: I am intuitive; I am deep; I am creative; I am different; I am correct. Fours want to be seen as special and creative and will exaggerate their differences to cover over feelings of being ordinary or mundane.

    Conflict Style: Haughty, condescending, emotionally explosive, detached or cold, hatefully articulate. Fours are triggered when they feel misunderstood or the sense anger or abandonment from the other person. Fours can become pointedly articulate and hateful when provoked.

    Conflict Resolution: Don’t try to have a completely rational discussion devoid of emotional content, it won’t engage them. Try to recognize their intuitive insight while still maintaining your own personal truth (4s like to tell other people what they are feeling, and they are usually onto something). Don’t let their histrionics or emotional outbursts drive you away. Take a time out if necessary so that emotions can calm down. Let them know if you’ve been hurt too and that your feelings are just as important as theirs.

  8. #488
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    3,978
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    I wasn't sure of his type before but I'm pretty sure David Bowie is a 4 after watching this


    sp 4w3, 478.. that's probably the least 4ish four so it makes sense. The most assertive and tough. He probably even has a 7w8 fix.

  9. #489
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    You can tell by the most number of thread views among all 9 types that this one is about E4. They can't help being extra I swear, I swear. Am jealous myself now, it transfers. Thanks Obama

  10. #490
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    3,978
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default



    When I grow up
    I'll be stable
    When I grow up
    I'll turn the tables


    Nowhere only down from here
    Pick me off the floor
    Take away the things I dream
    One time one place one more

    Fix me now I wish you would
    Bring me back to life
    Kiss me blind somebody should
    From hollow into
    Last edited by maniac; 02-03-2018 at 06:01 PM.

  11. #491
    Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    So/Sx Introvert
    Posts
    7,961
    Mentioned
    717 Post(s)
    Tagged
    8 Thread(s)

    Default Sexual 4

    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
    Celebs [x] Theory [x] Tumblr [x]

    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



  12. #492
    Shytan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII 4w3 Sx/sp
    Posts
    522
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Better than everyone else

    C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479

  13. #493
    Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    So/Sx Introvert
    Posts
    7,961
    Mentioned
    717 Post(s)
    Tagged
    8 Thread(s)

    Default 4w5 (extreme version)

    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
    Celebs [x] Theory [x] Tumblr [x]

    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



  14. #494
    Dauphin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    North Carolina
    TIM
    EIE
    Posts
    946
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Every 4 guy (and some 4 women) wants to be James Dean.


  15. #495
    &papu silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5,077
    Mentioned
    456 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default


  16. #496
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default


  17. #497
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    3,978
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    sp/sx 4w5 416 (or maybe some other head fix)
    love her


  18. #498
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    3,978
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    article unrelated but its a good description of an unhealthy-low average 4

    No one was too surprised when Elliott Smith - a boozy, druggy Oscar-nominated folk singer who had talked openly about killing himself - was found dead. But then the coroner's report raised a chilling new possibility: murder. By Alexis Petridis

    No one could honestly claim to be surprised when they heard Elliott Smith had committed suicide. Plenty of folky singer-songwriters have a reputation for making introspective, melancholy music, but none quite like Smith's. To some critics he was Mr Misery - a pun on Miss Misery, the song from the soundtrack of Good Will Hunting for which he was Oscar-nominated in 1998. He was the "unhappiest man in the land", a singer you didn't so much listen to as commiserate with.
    According to his friend, singer Mary Lou Lord, Smith was the heir to the tragic mantle of her former boyfriend, Kurt Cobain: he was making records for "the sad kids". His gloom was more than sulky posturing: when Smith sang about heroin addiction or alcoholism or depression, he was singing about things he had experienced first-hand.


    The cover of his second, eponymous solo album, released in 1995, features a grainy image of bodies falling from a high building. Another, 1996's Either/Or, was named after a book by Kierkegaard, in which the philosopher posited that the aesthete would eventually find himself in a state of despair. As one tribute article wryly noted, you couldn't say that Smith didn't warn you.
    That is not to say the circumstances of his death were not shocking. Last year, just before lunchtime on Tuesday, October 21, Smith apparently had an argument with his girlfriend, fellow musician Jennifer Chiba, at their home in Silverlake, Los Angeles. As the row got worse, Smith threatened to commit suicide.
    Like most of Smith's close friends, Chiba was used to him making melodramatic threats about ending his life. After all, this was a man who, when he decided to relocate from Portland to Brooklyn in the late 1990s, bade farewell to his Oregon friends by informing them that it was likely he would never see them again because he was "probably going to kill himself".
    Chiba ignored him and locked herself in the bathroom. She then heard a scream. Returning to the living room, she found Smith standing with his back to her. When he turned around, she saw a kitchen knife sticking out of his chest. Smith had stabbed himself in the heart. Despite emergency surgery, he was pronounced dead 20 minutes after arriving at hospital. He was 34 years old.
    Never lost for an opinion, Courtney Love called it "the best suicide I ever heard of". Although killing yourself in this way is uncommon - according to the LA Coroner's Office that dealt with Smith's death, less than 4% of suicides in 2001 and 2002 were due to "sharp force trauma", and most of those were wrist-slashings - it is not entirely unknown. You turn the knife sideways and plunge it between the ribs. It is an extremely painful way to die, a last resort for people so low they no longer care about themselves.
    According to some of Smith's friends, that description fits. Indeed, he may have tried to kill himself in this way before, possibly in 1997: his producer Larry Crane remembers Smith showing him "a pretty bad scar on his chest". When he moved to New York, he told another friend that he spent his nights walking along the empty subway tracks.
    But, although few rock artists had ever courted the idea of suicide so regularly and openly as Smith, the most astonishing thing about his death is an ongoing and pervasive rumour that he was, in fact, murdered.
    Most people believed Smith's depression stemmed from being abused as a child, while living with his mother and stepfather in Texas. He once told a journalist from the US magazine Spin that if he had not had music to lean on, he might have "gone after" his stepfather. Certainly, nothing seemed capable of lifting his depression.
    A former member of a hardcore punk band called Heatmiser, he was deeply suspicious of commercial success, a modicum of which came after his Oscar nomination. He performed at the awards ceremony, between Celine Dion and Michael Bolton, and his subsequent album, 1998's XO, sold 400,000 copies, but he was unimpressed: "I threw myself into it because it seemed to make my friends happy," he said. "I don't particularly like hanging out with famous folks much because their lives are too weird."
    He had become a heroin addict and a "bad alcoholic" while living in Portland, but when his friends tried to intervene he was furious. Many of the songs on XO concerned themselves with "the nerve people have to go parading around as if they know what somebody else ought to do with themselves".
    His drug problems deepened. By the time he left New York for Los Angeles at the end of 1999, he was also using crack. Rumours abounded that he was now incapable of performing, that he had forgotten his own lyrics and nodded off onstage between songs, that he had been found passed out in a toilet in a club with a needle in his arm. Neighbours in Silverlake claimed they had seen him wandering the streets with a blanket over his shoulders, muttering to himself.
    And yet, in the last year of his life, Smith was alleged to have turned things around. He claimed to have finally kicked the drugs in 2002 with the help of a treatment called neurotransmitter restoration. He was working on a new album, provisionally entitled From a Basement on a Hill. Many friends claimed his new-found optimism was the result of his year-long relationship with Jennifer Chiba, a member of a local punk band, Happy Ending, who Smith had taken under his wing, touring with them as his support act, paying their expenses and producing their debut single. The two had established a foundation for abused children, to which Smith planned to donate all the profits from his next record.
    In his final interview, with Under the Radar magazine in January 2003, Chiba was depicted sitting alongside Smith as he tinkered in his studio into the early hours of the morning, "looking over her shoulder at her boyfriend and shaking her head in loving dismay".
    His suicide was thought to be a horrifying aberration, an example of a depressive committing suicide while on the upswing. "You have more energy to act out in a destructive way than when you're just depressed," reasoned his friend and former Heatmiser bandmate, Tony Lash.
    However, within weeks of Smith's death, rumours began to emerge that painted a markedly different picture of his final months. Smith, it was alleged, had not kicked drugs at all. Nor was his relationship with Chiba as idyllic as had been suggested.
    Sean Organ, the owner of Org Records, the British label that planned to release the Happy Ending single, described the sessions as "tense". "Without wanting to speak ill of the dead, [Smith] wasn't the easiest person to work with, because of his problems," says Organ.
    "It was tense, erratic, paranoid. Band on one side, Elliot on the other, her stuck in the middle. I'd get phone calls in the morning and phone calls in the evening and the mood would be completely different: 'It's the best thing we've ever done!'; 'It's a load of rubbish and under no circumstances must you play it to anybody.'
    "It was finally finished two or three months before he died. Then he kept remixing it. One of the girls in the band broke into his studio, took the tapes and sent them to me. Then it really went off. People started yelling. I was pretty much like, 'Let's just shelve it.' Then he died. The worst thing that ever happened to the Happy Ending was Elliott getting involved, to be honest."
    A statement about Happy Ending released on the Org Records website after Smith's death compares Chiba and Smith's volatile relationship to that of Sid Vicious and Nancy Spungen. At best, that seems like unfortunate wording, given that Vicious stabbed Spungen to death in 1978.
    "That was said beforehand," says Organ. "People described them as a Sid and Nancy couple, constantly arguing, splitting up and getting back together again. I can't really comment on it because I'm in London, they were over there in LA and I've never met them. The stories that were coming back were yes, that it was a crazed, druggy Sid and Nancy situation."
    One friend, Mark Flannigan, who owned a Hollywood club where Smith regularly performed, went so far as to question whether Smith had committed suicide at all. "I don't believe the guy stabbed himself in the chest," he said. "It just doesn't add up. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else did this. He was doing drugs with lowlife scum. He was around a lot of creepy people - some very negative, dangerous people."
    Others angrily dismissed the implication that Smith had been murdered by drug dealers. "I know he was completely clean," said film-maker Steve Hanft, who directed a film about Smith called Strange Parallel. "[His death] was not about [drugs] and that's what makes me mad. He wasn't some stupid junkie on the nod."
    Nevertheless, curious postings began appearing on Elliott Smith website message boards, purporting to be from people who knew him, and claiming that Smith did not take his own life. "I just know in my heart that he did not do this," read one, allegedly written by someone who had known Smith through the studio where he worked.
    The internet is catnip to cranks and conspiracy theorists, and few areas of music attract them like a rock star's death. The claims about Elliott Smith might well have been filed alongside spurious notions that John Lennon was murdered by the CIA, or that Bob Marley had cancer injected into him by shadowy forces fearful of his power, had it not been for the results of the coroner's examination into Smith's body, published in January on The Smoking Gun, a website that specialises in what it describes as "cool, confidential, quirky documents that can't be found elsewhere on the web".
    While toxicological tests revealed that Smith was apparently clean of illegal drugs at the time of his death - only non-abusive amounts of anti-depressants and medication for attention deficit disorder were found in his system - it returned an open verdict.
    "While his history of depression is compatible with suicide," it said, "and the location and direction of the stab wounds are consistent with self-infliction, several aspects of the circumstances (as they are known at this time) are atypical of suicide and raise the possibility of homicide."
    The report said that Smith had been stabbed twice - both wounds had entered his chest cavity and one had perforated his heart. That in itself is not suspicious: gruesome as it sounds, suicides who choose to stab themselves to death frequently jab the weapon into their chest a number of times.
    Smith, however, had no "hesitation wounds" - cuts made as the victim works up the nerve to force the weapon through - and had stabbed himself through his clothing. The autopsy also found small lacerations on both his hands and under his right arm, which it described as "possible defensive wounds". It claimed that Chiba's "reported removal of the knife" from Smith and "subsequent refusal to speak with detectives" were "all of concern".
    While an apparent suicide note had been found by Chiba - written on a Post It note, it read "I'm so sorry, love, Elliott. God forgive me" - detectives concluded that "this death is possibly suspicious, however, circumstances are unclear at this time."
    Chiba had declined all interview requests in the wake of Smith's death, but on January 9, four days after The Smoking Gun published the coroner's report, she made a statement to MTV News. She claimed that she had been "physically sick" when she discovered the report was online: "I felt Elliott's privacy and dignity in being able to die were violated."
    She denied that she had refused to speak to detectives and said that although she had not been charged or questioned over the allegations, she felt she was now a suspect in the eyes of the public. "In my mind, there's no question to what happened ... I want people to know that I'm not keeping quiet because I have anything to hide. If I was a suspect, I would have heard from the investigators, for one thing. Another is that his sister and his parents and everyone else close to him knows the truth, so I'm not worried about it."
    Five days later, however, Conrad Rippy, an attorney representing Smith's mother and father and his half-sister Ashley issued a statement on their behalf, contradicting Chiba's claim that they "know the truth".
    "Elliott's family has every confidence that the ongoing investigation will determine the actual circumstances of Elliott's death," it said. "Until such time as their investigation has concluded, however, and especially in light of the recent coroner's report, neither Elliott's family nor anyone else can claim to know the truth about Elliott's death, and any statement to the contrary mischaracterises the family's position."
    In the wake of the coroner's report and the statements by Chiba and the Smith family lawyer, there has been an uncomfortable silence. For this article, interview requests to both his former British label and his US publicist went unanswered. LAPD detective James King would not comment on the coroner's report, nor on Chiba's allegation that she had not refused to speak to detectives and would say only that the investigation was "ongoing".
    None of this, however, has done anything to damp down speculation. According to Sean Organ, the Happy Ending website had to be "totally and utterly taken down" because so many people were using it to send death threats to Chiba. The band have split up.
    Over on Sweet Adeline, the Elliott Smith messageboard where the "sad kids" Mary Lou Lord described congregate, stories continue to circulate. More than one correspondent is convinced they know the truth about the death, because Smith has appeared to them in a dream and revealed all. Another suggests that diehard fans should hire US television medium John Edward in an attempt to contact Smith beyond the grave.
    In a way, you cannot really blame them for believing that Smith is trying to reach them in death: intimate, wracked with sorrow and personal details, his music certainly tried to reach people when he was alive. The website's news pages report that Smith's family will release his final album later this year. One of its tracks is called See You In Heaven.

  19. #499
    I sacrificed a goat to Zeus and I liked it
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Durmstrang School
    Posts
    2,845
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    No. I am the only 4 on the site. No one else can be like me.

  20. #500
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default


  21. #501
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default


  22. #502
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    3,978
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default


  23. #503
    Shytan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII 4w3 Sx/sp
    Posts
    522
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VOGUE PARIS View Post
    Obsessed with Gia Carangi, my first real crush on a girl. She is a counterphobic 6 to the bone. once you know Gia, the movie pretty much cant compare.

    Well, after all the commentary I figured I should leave a song that really emphasized what an unhealthy 4 self pres looks like. Because I like to highlight the paradox that is Sp 4. Yes, they may like to suffer quietly, and may be considered the most practical subtype but actually .. self pres 4 when even at average health, tend to teeter on edge of life by indulging in their vices. So when they say 4s inflict drama, subtypes usually just say on what aspect of life. Honestly, I think it can seem like a real Sx kind of energy but just placed onto vices instead. This is what I was taught a couple years back when dealing with the enneagram community. As for this song... it could actually go with my whole tritype as well, 479 "The gentle spirit" lolol.

    I came across this song from the movie Trainspotting, when I was my absolute worst in new york a few years back. This song helped me feel "Validated" and thus helped me get on my feet and move forward.

    I love late 70s/ 80s kind of dark synthwave more than anything so it just... was magic to me. (Scottish people so you will hear the accent) It's written by Billy Joel, so certainly has that 7 fix to it.



    I've never been closer
    I've tried to understand
    That certain feeling
    Carved by another's hand
    But it's too late to hesitate
    We can't keep on living like this
    Leave no track
    Don't look back

    All I desire
    Temptation
    Keep climbing higher and higher
    Temptation
    Adorable creatures
    Temptation
    With unacceptable features
    Temptation
    Trouble is coming
    Temptation
    It's just the high cost of loving
    Temptation
    You can take it or leave it
    Temptation
    But you'd better believe it

    You've got to make me an offer
    It cannot be ignored
    So let's head for home now
    Everything I have is yours
    Step by step and day by day
    Every second counts I can't break away
    Leave no trace
    Hide your face

    Step by step
    Day by day
    Every second counts
    I can't break away
    Keep us from temptation (x3)
    Lead us not in temptation

    Trying to find it
    Temptation
    You've got to get up behind it
    Temptation
    Put your dime in the hot slot
    Temptation
    But it's a million to one shot
    Temptation
    You think that you're right
    Temptation
    Your gonna face it tonite now
    Temptation
    Give me a breakdown
    Because it's time for a shakedown
    Temptation (x10)
    I heard the exact same sp 4 information on some socionics podcast,which as a whole was really informative. Explained why I don't feel as depressed as is stereotypically 4, even though I'm sp-secondary it still impacts me in a huge way. What I don't understand is what they meant by "vices ".

    C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479

  24. #504
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Tfw when all the 2s, 3s, and 7s are surrounding you as a 4


  25. #505
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default Every 4w3's life ever - Sadder days/Saturdays/Sadderdaze


  26. #506
    Stellafera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Southern USA
    TIM
    IEI-Fe
    Posts
    458
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default



    All I know is I cannot pretend
    So I'm sitting on the outside again
    Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
    Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd

  27. #507
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,347
    Mentioned
    1005 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Fine Distinctions – Fours – Tom Condon

    Subtypes

    Self-Preservation Fours

    • Self-Preservation Fours are often risk takers
    • They take chances to stir up emotional intensity, collect new experiences, play out inner dramas or learn about themselves
    • Open advocates of the passionate life
    • Social and artistic courage; the high side of this subtype brings daring
    • Healthy Fours with this subtype often feel driven to express an inner vision and find the courage and skill to bring it into the world
    • Often exceedingly practical in ways that support their creative enterprises
    • For some their home is an aesthetically soothing refuge, for others home is dank and depressing, prompting fantasies of beautiful places, a stimulant to envy
    • May have possessions they keep for a long time that are charged with symbolism and meaning
    • Environmentally sensitive react strongly to their surroundings; fussy and hard to please about new purchases
    • When less healthy, they take self-destructive risks or punish other by hurting themselves

    • Some can be reckless and openly court disaster while others merely flirt with loss
    • Sometimes the connection to One is extra strong. Fours with this subtype can harangue themselves in a Oneish way and then rebel with reckless behavior

    • Some resist the need to make a living; may hobble themselves with mystery ailments that prevent them from having a “straight job”
    • Self-Preservation Fours can be mistaken for counterphobic Sixes
    • Some Fours with this subtype struggle with their weight and body image as they relate to identity. Anorexia, overeating or obsessions about food are possible

    Intimate Fours

    • Intimate Fours love others in a deep way, and possess a sensitive, complex, poetic intelligence about matters of the heart
    • This is a highly romantic subtype, visible in the realms of romantic poetry, the troubadour tradition and popular music about love, especially in the lyrics of confessional singers

    • Often stay friends with ex-lovers
    • A focus on aesthetics; some Intimate Fours are tasteful, flashy dressers • Can harbor a fantasy of perfect union, a redemptive love that will heal the wound of being an unwanted outsider
    • Prone to jealousy and may be competitive in close relationships as well as generally; can feel like there is only so much love to go around
    • Want to be Number One in their beloved’s heart or the only person their partner has ever loved; could be jealous of their partner’s past relationships
    • A stronger connection to Two
    • May be surprised to discover that their beloved has different needs; they assume mutuality of purpose and are unprepared to negotiate
    • Also prone to professional envy and try to best others at work
    • May be unable to enjoy their successes without demeaning the achievements of others
    • Intimate Fours can resemble Eights just as romantic Intimate Eights can resemble Fours
    • Can believe that without someone to love they are nothing and life is not worth living

    • When in love, images of their partner fill the Four’s awareness and attention. The beloved is a muse, necessary to connect Fours to their own life force
    • May take no responsibility for their life until Mr. or Ms. Right comes along
    • There can be a willful immaturity to this stance, a stubborn refusal to face facts no matter what the practical costs
    • Can be love addicts who lack the memory of being loved and believe they are condemned to search the world for something or someone to fill them up
    • Some Intimate Fours act markedly seductive to stave off being rejected • May engineer rejection by picking unavailable or inappropriate people to become infatuated with
    • A few have ambiguous, confused or exaggerated sexual identities or a chronic identity crisis around their sexuality

    Social Fours

    • Healthy Social Fours are unusually independent, self-affirming and socially courageous
    • Willing to take unpopular stands, initiate innovative projects or create institutions that have humanistic or artistic purposes
    • They make good teachers especially of art, poetry, spirituality, realms of the heart and the inner life
    • Can be idealistic, drawn to social causes, with a keen sense of justice. The connection to One is especially strong with this subtype
    • May play the role of the critical outsider, dissatisfied with the norm
    • Prone to shame because they compare themselves with the “normal” world around them, for deviating from imagined group norms
    • Highly self-critical although their critical voice often belongs to someone else
    • To refute the voice’s criticisms, a Social Four may romanticize her defects or snobbishly counter-criticize the group
    • May seek status or feel driven to achieve to get revenge against those who once laughed at them
    • Cover their shame with charm

    • Social Fours with a Five wing can grow antisocial and depressed, bearing their shame in solitude, in tension to a group that they keep at a distance

    Four with a Three Wing

    • Fours with a Three wing can seem like Sevens. Can be cheerful, outgoing, with a sense of humor and style
    • May be “counter depressive,” in that they stay busy and on-task to avoid getting bogged down in melancholy
    • Healthy Fours with this wing marry art and commerce; they are both creative and effective, intuitive and ambitious
    • Generally more visual and kinesthetic and have a faster tempo of thought, speech and reaction
    • Often materialistic, can have elegant or expensive taste; could prize the rare
    • Might dress flashy – albeit in a color coordinated way – in contrast to Fours with a Five wing, who try to be socially invisible
    • Can be conscious of wearing a mask to hide their “true” deformed identity
    • Some are Three “wannabes”; they imitate Threes to pass in the “normal” world as high-functioning and well-adjusted citizens; underneath they feel like ETs
    • Can be exceptionally competitive, sometimes more so than Threes
    • Their pleasure in their own achievements may be tainted by jealousy or motivated by revenge
    • When recognized for what they accomplish, they may feel celebrated for the wrong reasons or dismiss the recognition as not enough
    • Fours with this wing can tend towards melodrama and flamboyance
    • Get lost in fraudulence, play the role of the artist or the authentic, unique one
    • Generally more conventional and less original than Fours with a Five wing
    • May have bad taste but not know it

    Four with a Five Wing

    • Fours with a Five wing are generally more introverted
    • When healthy they have a rich, complex creativity
    • Although somewhat intellectual, they have exceptional depth of feeling and insight
    • May be multi-talented in ways that they take for granted
    • Fours with this wing are often more original and idiosyncratic, unique to the point of eccentric
    • Use thinking to suppress or dissociate from their feelings
    • Often they are more auditory and kinesthetic and less consciously visual
    • They have a spiritual and aesthetic openness and may also have a marked need to pour themselves into creative or artistic pursuits
    • Try to use the strength of their minds to manage their emotional intensity
    • Some are loners who can seem enigmatic or hard to read
    • Externally reserved and internally resonant; when absorbed in a mood they can sit still and expressionless for long periods of time (hypnotic catalepsy)
    • An “open or closed” quality; after suddenly breaking hours of silence, the Four won’t stop talking
    • Fours with this wing will sometimes polarize against their own Three wing, making Threeness a shadow that they indict in others
    • Could see the world as dominated by trashy, materialistic values and pointless hyperactivity – things the Four secretly envies
    • Some are nondescript and try to be invisible. Consciously decide to venture into the world
    • Some are sedentary and, if not overweight, have no muscle tone
    • Especially prone to feeling alienated and depressed; could isolate themselves
    • More likely to argue for their limitations or prove they can’t function in the normal world
    • Might ignore practical matters or unpleasant but necessary chores, citing the strength of their feelings as an excuse
    • Can be whiny or have an air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment
    • Prone to sulking and stubborn, passive-aggressive sadness; unusually humorless
    • Can inhabit a private world of pain and loss or be morbidly in love with death
    • Might have a well-developed eye for the grotesque and the gothic

    • Like Sixes they can fear taking action; some complain of having little energy

    Four’s Connection to One

    • A healthy connection to One helps Fours locate and connect to the objective, factual world, independent of their inner feelings
    • Helps Fours balance the intensity of their feelings. They think more rationally and keep things in perspective

    • The connection to One brings discipline and diminishes a Four’s self- indulgence
    • Brings problem-solving skills and an unexpected practical streak: Fours can be talented at managing money and handling realistic details
    • Oneish Fours tend to be idealistic and work hard for what they believe in; morally courageous expressions of principle
    • Contributors rather than complainers, committed to living in and improving an imperfect world
    • When Fours are less healthy the connection to One devolves into being critical, fault finding and nit-picky
    • After the perfect union of falling in love the Four can turn critical and disapproving, focusing only on what is missing in his partner’s behavior
    • May have idealized, romantic dreams for which there are no partners or expect so much of partners that they drive them away
    Self-critical; may criticize themselves in a Oneish voice that speaks only of their Four’s flaws, reinforcing their sense of alienated difference
    • Oneish Fours can block themselves creatively or set themselves up to fail because nothing they produce is up to their own impossibly high standards
    • May criticize and tear down others, mainly out of jealousy
    • Sometimes latch onto a grandiose, obsessive Big Idea or believe they are attuned to Absolute Truth
    • Idealistic and artistic pretentiousness are possible; could feel they inhabit a lofty plane where their endeavors and aspirations can not be understood by mortals – The Great Artist Blues
    • Black and white thinking with a moral cast
    • Self-punitive and pleasure hating, fanaticism and religiosity are possible

    Four’s Connection to Two

    • Fours have a built-in connection to Two. When healthy it brings interpersonal skills and the ability to voluntarily empathize with others
    • Like Twos, Fours can float over and switch places with others and intuitively sense how they feel. The Four will then filter and interpret other people’s feelings through the Four’s own subjectivity
    • Twoish Fours can be supportive, generous “foul weather” friends who understand and accept the pain of others
    • May volunteer their services to ease suffering
    • Act upon ideals, want to make the world a better place
    • The connection to Two brings the ability to teach or mentor, especially about subjective matters. Can accurately read the nonverbal behavior of others
    • When this connection is less healthy, a Four may compulsively merge with others, especially their pain, as it unconsciously reminds the Four of their own
    • May flatter, charm and placate, hoping to mask their sense of defect
    • Twoish Fours are prone to moody instability; by turns needy and then aggressive
    • Can put great demands on their relationships and be easily disappointed • Twoish Fours may flee themselves through codependent service to others
    • The Four sense of specialness is intensified by Twoish pride
    • Loud arguments and histrionic dramas are possible
    • Psychosomatic illness and age regression (becoming younger than your years) are stronger tendencies


    Excerpted from The Dynamic Enneagram by Tom Condon
    Copyright 2009, 2013 by Thomas Condon
    Available as an ebook serial at Tom’s website http://www.thechangeworks.com

    Tom Condon has worked with the Enneagram since 1980 and with Ericksonian hypnosis and NLP since 1977. These three models are combined in his trainings to offer a useful collection of tools for changing and growing, to apply the Enneagram dynamically, as a springboard to positive change. Tom has taught over 800 workshops in the US, Europe and Asia and is the author of 50 CDs, DVDs and books on the Enneagram, NLP and Ericksonian methods. He is founder and director of The Changeworks in Bend, Oregon.

    http://www.ninepointsmagazine.org/fine-distinctions-fours-tom-condon/

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

  28. #508
    Shytan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII 4w3 Sx/sp
    Posts
    522
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Aylen Always so helpful with this kind of information! ♡ Thanks

    C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479

  29. #509
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    3,978
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    this video title

  30. #510
    &papu silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5,077
    Mentioned
    456 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    4w3 sp/sx (Kathryn Mannix) - quite representative of the 4/8 axis of life and death



    Last edited by silke; 04-20-2018 at 09:41 PM.

  31. #511
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default IEI SX/SP — Fittingly, from the album "My Dear Melancholy"


  32. #512
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Four meets six like


  33. #513
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default






  34. #514
    &papu silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5,077
    Mentioned
    456 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Brett Anderson from Suede - 4w5 SEI-Fe (so/sx?)








    Karen McDougal - 4w5 so/sx (SEI-Fe?)



    Last edited by silke; 10-22-2018 at 10:46 PM.

  35. #515
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    3,978
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    Attachment 13036

    also just a universal truth (i think)

  36. #516
    &papu silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5,077
    Mentioned
    456 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    this is kind of interesting discussion on the differences between 9 and 4:


    "One way to do this (4 vs 9), imo, is to crank up (in abstract space) some of the pure fixated qualities and their specific 'problems'.

    E.g.: 4s can hate/despise better than any other type. 'Better', meaning in a focused/lasering articulated way. 9s who mistype as 4s will usually recoil, to some degree, at that idea -- the idea that 4s, as a type, are the masters of targeted personal hate aimed at specific individuals, although 4-hate can (and often does) include general hatred for humanity or other groups, etc.

    In roughly the same zone as hate (the general topic of Anger), 9s, in interior space, are much more 'nonverbal' in their anger. Anger, when it (finally) arises in a significant way, is flush through the body and calls out for physical manifestation in a way that's fairly foreign to 4.

    iow, 9 anger is 'dumb' and brutish in the sense that it (unconsciously) fantasizes some form of physical annhilation of the other, per the Gut Center. -- 4 anger/hate is generally 'smart' and has a higher vibration, higher center of gravity, up in head/heart space.

    4s are 'granulating' their emotions, to some degree, meaning there's a Head/Heart ping pong that has a sharpening quality to it; it fine-tunes the wording/vocabulary of feelings, it 'anunciates' clearly, compared to the Gut grunts.
    4 chooses specific poisons, particular venoms. And the 4 inner dynamic amplifies feelings, because negative discriminating thinking (the nextdoor magnetic neighbor 5) naturally stokes the flames of negative feeling.

    And, per the above, 4s really have no (or minimal) superego messages dictating that hate is 'bad/wrong.' In fact, again, the tendency is to amplify hate (internally) in plenty of instances. This is a big difference -- 9s have much more superego messaging saying that certain feelings are bad/wrong and ought to not even be felt internally.

    So, one thing that happens in enneagram forums is that people who are 9s who have mistyped as 4s will say this post (yes, this very post) is me saying 'bad things' about 4s. But now that I've mentioned that, they'll come up with some other workaround. Stubborn. If this (description of an aspect of type 4) sounds *too* negative, too morally/ethically bad and wrong, you may not be a 4.
    4s generally see the hatred thing is just a plain simple fact of who they are, kind of nonchalant about it."


    "It's amazing (and I've said this before) that when someone accurately describes the type 4 structure in terms of the self-created negativity, focus on frustration, and tendency to feel pointed hatred, that everyone flips out. 4's can be loving and compassionate people just like everyone else when they are healthy. But there is absolutely nothing in the type 4 structure that says "hatred is wrong, keep it positive." There is nothing about 4's that would make them strive for positivity or compassion. Can they be? Sure, just like anyone. But they TAKE NO MORAL ISSUE with expressing negativity or hatred, if anything they enjoy it. It's part of being a Reactive type to say "Hey everyone, there's shit you're all pretending you can't smell!" If you react so negatively to the idea of 4's being comfortable in the space of hatred, you may not be a core 4, and that's completely okay. Do you think Marilyn Manson goes home after his concerts and thinks, "Maybe I shouldn't have screamed about how god is dead and cut myself on stage...I'll be a little more compassionate next time." Reactive types want to hand you your bullshit on a plate, and the more reactive types you have in your tritype, the stronger this gets. It is a superego response to say "I'm a 4 but my negativity is bad." That goes against the 4 ego structure completely. And excuse me for getting too "real," signed this 478."


    "Part of being a 4 is not noticing that your reactions have any particular negative effect. If you notice that they do, that might be fine with you since truth is being spoken. Other people can have their negative reactions to your negativity -- so what? 4s are comfortable situations charged with emotions and might not notice themselves being disruptive.

    Same goes for seeing the hate aspect of 4 as a dark element -- to 4s, hate & overall negativity is a kind of neutral state: it just is what it is. The nature of fixation is that it repeats and repeats, it doesn't wake up to itself, even when we're deeply immersed in enneagram wisdom and have been working on or looking at this stuff for many years."
    Last edited by silke; 10-22-2018 at 11:08 PM.

  37. #517
    I sacrificed a goat to Zeus and I liked it
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Durmstrang School
    Posts
    2,845
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default


  38. #518
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,347
    Mentioned
    1005 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Point Four’s Relationship to Authority

    Fours tend to ignore petty authority and to give “grand” authority an enormous amount of respect. Petty authorities—the police or the shopkeeper who makes you wait in line—are to be ignored and gotten around; but grand authority, such as kings and queens or critically acclaimed people, are to be viewed with respect. Fours tend to believe that ordinary rules and regulations do not apply to themselves. They are rebellious in the sense that they do not obey, but do so by disdainfully forgetting to take the rules and regulations seriously rather than out of a need to bring authority down. If the authority is punitive or restrictive, the Four will be likely to break all the rules of behavior and “get away with” as much as possible.

    Grand authority, on the other hand, is greatly admired, particularly if the situation supports a Four’s image of specialness and elite presentation. A Four wants to be selected for having unique abilities and to be mentored and nourished by the best people around. They become patients of world-class analysts and confidants to eccentric geniuses. There is a need to be recognized by distinguished people and to be loved by those that a Four believes are in touch with authentic depth.

    On the high side, Fours are able to sense genuine talents and qualities of feeling in others. They see through an imitative or derivative presentation. They understand the distinction between “the best,” and “the best known.” They will turn a tacky presentation into something beautiful and unique and can see extraordinary possibilities in a common business situation. They reach out to join forces with the very best people in the field.

    On the low side, Fours compete with peers for the respect of grand authority. They become spiteful if not recognized and do not like to be in a servile position or to work in an ordinary setting unless this is in the service of “my real work as an artist” or “my true calling as a mystic.”
    Elite Nonconformity

    I have a talent for escaping the ordinary. In a way I’ve made it my life task. I’ve never had a boring job in my whole life, mostly because I will embellish them to the point where they aren’t ordinary anymore. I would have a job selling books, for instance, and I would take as many as were appealing to me. Then I wasn’t a clerk anymore, I was a criminal, a much more interesting thing to be. They were always art books, useless in a way, but wonderful to take a risk for. I developed such a foolproof method that I was delighted to have a party given for me when I left, at which they presented me with a book which I had already taken home.

    A kind of amorality can develop as a Four’s self-image shifts from being a rejected outsider to being someone who stands aloof and slightly above the ordinary crowd. There is an attraction to breaking the social rules, which, following a Four’s adherence to elite standards, can get played out as kid-glove criminality, like shoplifting only white angora sweaters.

    Fours delight in “getting away with it.” They like the thrill of secret mischief and playing at the edge of scandal. There is an excitement in courting disaster, in being eccentric or difficult, and therefore getting special treatment. Being difficult also satisfies a kind of masochistic need to be revealed as that flawed and despicable child who is still unworthy of being loved. These feelings of unworthiness are coupled with an angry wish to even the score with people who appear to be getting more out of life. The coupling of masochism and anger could be encapsulated in the image of the society matron who serves a perfectly appointed dinner and lies in wait for the proper moment to announce that she is in support of a controversial cause that most of her guests despise.

    This statement was given by a San Francisco socialite who stated that she became entirely absorbed with the task of getting the best people to attend her parties, only to feel instantly turned off when their RSVP was marked “accept.”

    I cannot stand to be ignored. It brings up terrible feelings of being left out, which quickly move to hate. Being publicly humiliated makes you want to erase the shame by finding a way to get back. I either negate the importance of the people and leave, or I notice myself becoming sarcastic, and I find that underneath I’m terribly angry that attention has been taken away from me.

    It’s equally dangerous for me if a situation gets too predictable or quiet. I want to break the mood by saying something shocking, which gets my message across that I think the conversation is a bore, and is also my kind of attempt to draw out some special stranger who would instinctively recognize that I was trying to upgrade the level of a poor conversation.
    Assets

    Their lifelong familiarity with suffering makes Romantics particularly suited to working with people going through crisis or grief. They have unusual stamina for helping others go through intense emotional episodes and are willing to stick with a friend through long periods of recovery. Fours often say that by focusing on someone else’s needs, they are able to shift attention from their own.

    Mourning and abandonment are the keys in which my life is set, however, those are not depressing experiences to me. The dark moods are what interest me most and have given me a real talent for the shadows inside people’s minds. If something dramatic, or dangerous, or deeply disturbing happens, then I find myself immediately present.

    My husband has had an assistant for several years, and I’ve been cordial to her, but have never been attracted to knowing her. Suddenly her marriage dissolved when she was five months pregnant, and with that news, she has become a central figure in my mind. I am much more likely to become disturbed when life gets too predictable than I am when a disturbing event occurs.

    The search for depth of meaning often misleads a Four into the belief that lighthearted relationships are lightweight and therefore not worthy of consideration. There is a great attraction to people who are caught up in the most intense human experiences, such as birth, and death, and encounters with the dark unconscious. Fours feel far more real at those moments when life and death are close companions, because those events are so intensely demanding that their full attention is brought into the present moment. The following statement was given by an organizer for suicide hot lines.

    Happiness is incidental. Is a moth made happy by the flame? I am a counselor myself and was in analysis for years. I faithfully tried to see myself that way, but I have developed a suspicion of my insights, and an impulse to resist what other people see in me. I feel that passion holds a greater possibility, that I truly exist only at the center of my deepest feelings.

    As a counselor I’m attracted to crisis work: to battered women and people on the borders of sanity. I have started a hot line for our county and find an instant rapport on the phone with some stranger who’s out there on the edge with a revolver or a bottle of pills in his hand.


    Attractive Environments


    Fours often have two jobs: “my money job and my real job as an artist.” They are attracted to environments that require body discipline as a way of conforming to special standards. Dancer, chanteuse, magazine model. They are atelier owners, interior decorators, antique collectors, and owners of excellent secondhand stores.


    They are metaphysicians and depth psychologists; they search for a connection to higher planes of mind. They are grief counselors, feminists, animal rights activists. They are attracted to religion, ritual, and art.


    Unattractive Environments


    Unattractive environments include mundane jobs in ordinary settings. “I work in an office, but that’s not me.” Close work with people who earn more or have more. Service jobs, anonymity. A job where special talents are not seen.

    Intuitive Style

    On the neurotic side, Fours tend to exaggerate their emotional climates; however, the habit of focusing attention on a distant person and yearning for feelings of connection can also have some striking side effects. Fours say that they feel as close to someone at a distance as when that person is physically present in the room. They also believe that their own mood adjusts in order to resonate with what the absent person feels.

    Fours say that they take on other people’s emotions, that their vast experience with shifting moods allows them to match the feeling tone of other people as a way of staying connected to them. There are many recollections of Fours who wanted to be with an absent parent and who came to believe that they could sense how the parent was feeling about them at a distance. Fearing abandonment and hating to be ignored, Four children learned to internalize a felt connection to loved ones who, it was feared, might go away.

    It is as if a sensing mechanism developed within the growing child through which it was possible to match the moods of significant people as a way of staying connected and never being left behind. The intuitive task for Fours who believe that they can accurately register other people’s feelings would be to learn to tell the difference between a projection, based upon neurotic fears of abandonment, and the possibility of a genuine attunement.

    Intuitively inclined Fours often feel burdened by the habit of taking on other people’s emotions. They say that they are vulnerable to picking up pain and depression without realizing it and can go through an entire day before they realize that the mood that they are carrying may not be their own. They report that once the feeling connection is made that they cannot tell whether the mood has its source within the other or within themselves.

    On the high side of this way of paying attention, Fours can be unerringly sensitive to matching the feeling tone of clients, family members, and friends. This is far more than an idea or a hypothesis about what a friend might be feeling; it is an actual following of the fluctuations of another’s moods within one’s own body. Highly intuitive Fours can resonate with other people’s emotional state to the extent that they know when the other is available to being reasoned with or loved, or when it is safe to express negativity and to talk things out. The following statement was given by a Four who has been able to use his intuitive talent in the practice of psychiatry.

    All during my life I felt drawn to the intensity in other people. It was like I felt my own emotions spark when somebody had been moved or struck deeply or become desperate in some way. I call it my leap of the heart, and have learned to welcome it, although it first came to me in what seemed like irrational ways. Like walking into a room feeling one mood and suddenly realizing that I was feelingly different when nothing came to mind about why that should be happening to me. I could also become gripped by what I supposed was my own emotionality, only to find that someone in the clinic or the family therapy session had just had (he identical shift.

    I eventually found that my signals were sometimes projections and sometimes direct hits. I was often right on when the leap of the heart happened. At other times I was dead wrong, because I was merely confirming through my feelings what I intellectually assumed somebody was supposed to feel.
    The Original Connection to Higher Mind

    As with each of the types, the dominant neurotic preoccupation can be seen as indicating the search for a particular aspect of essence. From a purely psychological perspective, the concept of a depressed individual’s return to essence is something like the completion of grieving and a maturation into a happy life. From the point of view of a psychological/spiritual system like the Enneagram, a Four’s return to essence implies something quite different from emotional satisfaction.

    A Four’s sense of childhood loss continues onward into adult life as a background awareness that some crucial factor for happiness is missing. The original milk was lost and has been replaced with a tacky substitute. The rewards that flow from the material life do not recreate that original connection for a Four. The Romantic can have it all and know that something is missing.

    Because objective life does not produce satisfaction, there is often the sense of two realities: the objective world and the one behind the scenes. Objective reality does not hold the promise of fulfillment, yet there are indications to Fours that other realities of experience occasionally coexist with the objective world. There is the sense of a plane of existence that is beyond ordinary reality, that can be particularly sensed at the intense concordances of emotional life; at those junctures where tragedy forces an upwelling of unconscious feeling, or in affairs of the heart, where love is lost or gained. Fours report that at such moments a connection can be sensed to that which is missing; that they experience a felt connection to an eternal source of support.

    On the neurotic side, Fours are fiercely determined to hold onto the dark side of feeling. They want to remain unique and resist being remade into an ordinary happy person. On the mature side, they are quite correct in sensing that their nature’s more than merely psychological; and by their tenacious resistance to becoming adjusted to ordinary life, they remind the rest of us about that felt connection to our own higher awareness.

    A person who feels chronically deprived might first sense the connection to essence as a moment of complete belonging, moments that remind one of being held in the safety of a mother’s arms, or of the surrender of one’s being to the hope of an enduring love. This connection to what Fours would describe as “my real self” is often felt during nonverbal moments of artistic reverie, or meditation practice, or being in love, those very contacts to which Fours feel themselves habitually drawn.
    The Virtue of Equanimity (Balance)

    Envy describes a compulsive attraction to the unavailable. Fours can exert a great deal of time and energy trying to obtain something appealing only to find fault when it comes within reach. For severely fixated Fours, the desire to possess and the need to reject can arise almost simultaneously. They report being attracted to unavailable people whom they know immediately will not be good for them or to people unwilling to commit themselves to a relationship. So the dance goes on. “You move backward, I move forward. If you move forward, I dance backward.”

    Balance is the resolution of the suffering caused by being pulled to what you cannot have and repelled by what has come to hand. It is the recognition of having enough of what you really need. Like all of the higher impulses Balance is an embodiment, rather than a thought, or an idea about what it would be like to be fully satisfied. It depends upon being able to stabilize attention in the present and feeling the satisfaction of having enough.

    Embodying the virtue of equanimity begins with strengthening the capacity for self-observation to the point where one is able to recognize when attention drifts off to the past, the future, the distant, or the hard to get. Fours will experience equanimity when they are able to gently return their awareness to the present and pay attention to the bodily satisfaction that is here.
    Excerpts from: "THE ENNEAGRAM. Understanding Yourself and the Others in Your Life." by Helen Palmer

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

  39. #519

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI-N 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,869
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The entire album is pretty 4-themed but this song embodies it best imo.

    4w3-5w6-8w7

  40. #520
    Guillaine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    TIM
    IEE 4w5 sx/so
    Posts
    394
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •