INFj temper tantrums

[Beautiful sky]

It's absolutely essential that an EII throw temper tantrums. This is a specific social development to tackle which aspect of LSE?

I know the answer. I just want to know if you know any EII other than myself who throws them. Please share thanks.

[echan]

They're too "boring" otherwise?

WHY DA FUCK JUST DOESN'T ANYONE NOTICE I'M INFJ ANEWAY SUBTYPE WHEN I AM COSPLAYING AS THIS TYPE AND THAT TYPE.......

ESPECIALLY AGGRESSORS RAWR

-.-t

[echan]

They're too "boring" otherwise?

WHY DA FUCK JUST DOESN'T ANYONE NOTICE I'M INFJ ANEWAY SUBTYPE WHEN I AM COSPLAYING AS THIS TYPE AND THAT TYPE.......

ESPECIALLY AGGRESSORS RAWR

-.-t

SOMEONE NOTICE ME

EVEN IF THEH'RE

ESTP?
ENTP?
SIGH....................... Y DA FUK AM I SURROUNDED BY SO MANY.................
ENTJS......
ISFJS..........
INFJS FIMO SUBTYPE...................
BIONICGOAT WHO'S MIA...........................
ENFPS FIMO SUBTYPE WHO'S ALWAYS BITCHIN AT ME
AND KATIYARO FIMO SUBTYPE WHO'S ALWAYS BITCHIN AT ME FOR DISAPPEARING ON HER AND BEING UNFAITHFUL..........................
AND TOYOYARO ISTJ SUBTYPE WHO'S ACTUALLY JUST LIKE ME........
LAIK........ DOES MAKE THAT INTO AN AGGRESORSR THEN?
OR AM I A VICTIM OF A GRAND COSMIC JOKE FROM ALMIGHTY GOD?
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................
ESPECIALLY FIMO SUBTYPE JUST STOP THE BITCHIN ALREADY WILL YA.........

OH.
ESPECIALLY"" MELITSA.
THANKS FOR NOT BITCHIN AT ME EVER IN FRONT OF ME.

o

[Words]

It's absolutely essential that an EII throw temper tantrums. This is a specific social development to tackle which aspect of LSE?

I know the answer. I just want to know if you know any EII other than myself who throws them. Please share thanks.

Hrrrrr

So that the LSE goes: fuck this shit, and leaves?

[golden]

I'm a bundle of turbulent emotions, personally, so I understand the tantrum state.

But equanimity is a widely desirable trait. Tantruming is not. If over-the-top emotional scenes happen to provoke negative physiological reactions in your partner, you run the risk of corroding the relationship.

There are ways to convey high emotional distress that don't involve losing control of yourself. Have an agreement with him on how to handle upsets. If the agreement is that he doesn't mind withstanding tantrums, you're all good. If not, you can convey the same level of emotional distress differently. He'll still receive your Fi correction. Because of the agreement, he will know that a conflict would have been a tantrum, but because you love him you are handling it in a way he can accept.

Btw, this takes practice.

[Iris]

I'm a bundle of turbulent emotions, personally, so I understand the tantrum state.

But equanimity is a widely desirable trait. Tantruming is not. If over-the-top emotional scenes happen to provoke negative physiological reactions in your partner, you run the risk of corroding the relationship.

There are ways to convey high emotional distress that don't involve losing control of yourself. Have an agreement with him on how to handle upsets. If the agreement is that he doesn't mind withstanding tantrums, you're all good. If not, you can convey the same level of emotional distress differently. He'll still receive your Fi correction. Because of the agreement, he will know that a conflict would have been a tantrum, but because you love him you are handling it in a way he can accept.

Btw, this takes practice.

Well said.

[Beautiful sky]

They're too "boring" otherwise?

WHY DA FUCK JUST DOESN'T ANYONE NOTICE I'M INFJ ANEWAY SUBTYPE WHEN I AM COSPLAYING AS THIS TYPE AND THAT TYPE.......

ESPECIALLY AGGRESSORS RAWR

-.-t

You are INFJ?

[Beautiful sky]

Hrrrrr

So that the LSE goes: fuck this shit, and leaves?

Well it seems to me that it's a last resort thing but LSE receive it well. Ok this is how it works. LSE go on a rant, a chain of throwing out a series of insults or attacks that completely block out how these judgements are received or how they make the other person feel. In this moment they need a clear visual throw of fit in order to stop and realize that what they are saying is enough and it's crossed boundaries. I've done this before and it's passified the environment bring it down to a calm and collected state without further emotional highs lows or judgements thrown at each other. Does this make sense? I'll try to recall the spacific example

[Waster]

LSE-Te isn't easy to live with.

[kopyk]

yet another dumbfuck thread attributing to socionics (scamionics) what rly should be explained using other typologies, in this case NPA theory, where narcissism relates to tantrum-throwng. http://www.npatheory.com/ socionics = illegitimate, unproven, completely ungrounded, parasitic spotlight-hogger.

[Beautiful sky]

I'm a bundle of turbulent emotions, personally, so I understand the tantrum state.

But equanimity is a widely desirable trait. Tantruming is not. If over-the-top emotional scenes happen to provoke negative physiological reactions in your partner, you run the risk of corroding the relationship.

There are ways to convey high emotional distress that don't involve losing control of yourself. Have an agreement with him on how to handle upsets. If the agreement is that he doesn't mind withstanding tantrums, you're all good. If not, you can convey the same level of emotional distress differently. He'll still receive your Fi correction. Because of the agreement, he will know that a conflict would have been a tantrum, but because you love him you are handling it in a way he can accept.

Btw, this takes practice.

The tantrum isn't to provoke a negative state

[Beautiful sky]

LSE-Te isn't easy to live with.

No they are not because the more Te the more control and more watching and criticism. But you have to learn to talk to them about what they are doing wrong that causes such difficult to live with conditions.

[Waster]

No they are not because the more Te the nore control and more watching and criticism. But you have to learn to talk to them about what they are doing wrong that causes suvh difficult to live with conditions.

I went to my brothers work once and was shocked at how coldly he was treating his coworker. I impulsively told him this was unacceptable and how he should be speaking to her; in retrospect I was surprised to see how receptive he was to such advice: he listened attentively.

[Beautiful sky]

I went to my brothers work once and was shocked at how coldly he was treating his coworker. I impulsively told him this was unacceptable and how he should be speaking to her; in retrospect I was surprised to see how receptive he was to such advice. He listened attentively.

The common response I get is "I'm just logical and I say what I watch" to which I've said "yes, but while you were doing it i gave a clear sign that it was too much which was ignored." And then I get an appology and we move on.

[echan]

You are INFJ?

Yes, I am an INFj ANeway subtype

[Eliza Thomason]

@Galen I disagree. I am not a yeller. I know other women who also are not yellers. @Maritsa, my EII sis-in-law throws serious "tantrums" from time-to-time and its for the reason you gave. She does it when she has had enough of her SLE-conflictor husband's insensitivity, because, as you say, he

"completely blocks out how these judgments are received or how they make the other person feel. In this moment they need a clear visual throw of fit in order to stop and realize that what they are saying is enough and it's crossed boundaries."

Yes, that's just why she does it. Perhaps because she has been patient through his rants at her and his numerous offenses and insensitivities, and she eventually feels its time to be heard, and she makes completely sure she is heard! I don't know if she would call it a tantrum, but she starts yelling, and yelling, at an intense level and she gets out all of her extreme offense at what was said. It can come from a seemingly small slight of his, too. Also because he habitually demonstrates more concern for "what the neighbors think" or, if out, what any strangers nearby might think, than for what she thinks, she takes advantage of his preoccupation with the opinion of others over her and will holler loud enough for the neighbors to hear and/or follow him, hollering, outside, or, if outside and away-from-home among strangers she will let it rip there, too, drawing unwanted attention to him with "What did you say? Don't tell me to hush!" Oh boy. But they are conflicters and rub each other wrong often and I think its pretty darn good they can keep it together. She is super polite and respectful almost all the time but when she yells (not often at all!) watch out!

She is from the Carribean and has this calm about her almost all the time. (Except when she is hollering!) My ex and her husband are brothers, and both men could be difficult/selfish, I particularly took notice of her very different way of dealing with their difficulties. I did not holler; I internalized my frustration after years of trying all the communication stuff that never worked with him. But her way seemed to let out the steam, to help her go back to her calm life quicker. While I instead might stay with an inner knot of anxiety for a long time because of troubles. (Well, that was long ago and not at all like my marraige now! )

[Galen]

ffs that's not me Eliza
@William

[Pookie]

Tantrum like bratty newborn? Or tantrum, like bottle of rage that doesnt express itself well?

[Skepsis]

yet another dumbfuck thread attributing to socionics (scamionics) what rly should be explained using other typologies, in this case NPA theory, where narcissism relates to tantrum-throwng. http://www.npatheory.com/ socionics = illegitimate, unproven, completely ungrounded, parasitic spotlight-hogger.

Interesting. It seems most logical to me that a persons personality is the results of how a person's genetics interacts with its environment and not because of pseudoscientific cognitive functions and an even more unscientific collective consciousness.

[Words]

I've had an LSE yelling insults at me, I just stood my ground and said no, he later apologised to me and didn't fuck with me again.

I'm not convinced the yelling will achieve anything but create a cyclic argumentative relationship: but some people like this.

[echan]

I am a DOH........t

[Eliza Thomason]

ffs that's not me Eliza
@William

Oh, sorry Galen -- he looks like your identical (in his portrait only!).

[Beautiful sky]

@Galen I disagree. I am not a yeller. I know other women who also are not yellers. @Maritsa, my EII sis-in-law throws serious "tantrums" from time-to-time and its for the reason you gave. She does it when she has had enough of her SLE-conflictor husband's insensitivity, because, as you say, he Yes, that's just why she does it. Perhaps because she has been patient through his rants at her and his numerous offenses and insensitivities, and she eventually feels its time to be heard, and she makes completely sure she is heard! I don't know if she would call it a tantrum, but she starts yelling, and yelling, at an intense level and she gets out all of her extreme offense at what was said. It can come from a seemingly small slight of his, too. Also because he habitually demonstrates more concern for "what the neighbors think" or, if out, what any strangers nearby might think, than for what she thinks, she takes advantage of his preoccupation with the opinion of others over her and will holler loud enough for the neighbors to hear and/or follow him, hollering, outside, or, if outside and away-from-home among strangers she will let it rip there, too, drawing unwanted attention to him with "What did you say? Don't tell me to hush!" Oh boy. But they are conflicters and rub each other wrong often and I think its pretty darn good they can keep it together. She is super polite and respectful almost all the time but when she yells (not often at all!) watch out!

She is from the Carribean and has this calm about her almost all the time. (Except when she is hollering!) My ex and her husband are brothers, and both men could be difficult/selfish, I particularly took notice of her very different way of dealing with their difficulties. I did not holler; I internalized my frustration after years of trying all the communication stuff that never worked with him. But her way seemed to let out the steam, to help her go back to her calm life quicker. While I instead might stay with an inner knot of anxiety for a long time because of troubles. (Well, that was long ago and not at all like my marraige now! )

I have a close enough example. So my bf was invited to thanksgiving dinner at my place and 14 others including my parents and friends. After the party he went off about all the things that watched, my actions, behaviors, all the external stuff and he also mentioned something about me not having worn shoes (everyone else haf so somehow I did not conform to the standard). By that point I thought it had been enough of his being on one. Being on one referrs to nonstop pointing. I took the couch pillow and I threw it on the couch saying, "That's enough! This is my home and if I don't wear shoes in it that is only to get people to feel at home! I don't need to listen to anymore judgements." He stopped and said "I know babe, people like you because of xyz just every once in a while do what I like. " I told him that I would think about it

[kopyk]

It's not proven in the sense that it's recognized by science, academia, etc. However, it's far more empirically, physiologically & genetically grounded than socionics will ever be, cuz socionics is a crystal clear scam, easily eclipsed by other theories like MOTIV (which is also superior to MBTI, btw). Another of NPA's strengths over socionics is it being far simpler & to the point. It has its roots in Karen Horney's writings, which have stood the test of time better then Jung's crackpottery. Horney's stuff is easier to relate to newer, accepted psychology like Oldham styles (e.g. solitary goes under "resignation solution") & thus by extension personality disorders... one way or another, nothing wrong with giving other theories some time in the spotlight, considering how this forum is absolutely swamped in enneagram & socionics, despite those being only 2 theories out of dozens...

[Aylen]

Tantrum like bratty newborn? Or tantrum, like bottle of rage that doesnt express itself well?

Mine usually go something like this:




At least in mind...

[you should never ask for a divorce]

[Eliza Thomason]

I have a close enough example. So my bf was invited to thanksgiving dinner at my place and 14 others including my parents and friends. After the party he went off about all the things that watched, my actions, behaviors, all the external stuff and he also mentioned something about me not having worn shoes (everyone else had so somehow I did not conform to the standard). By that point I thought it had been enough of his being on one. Being "on one" refers to nonstop pointing. I took the couch pillow and I threw it on the couch saying, "That's enough! This is my home and if I don't wear shoes in it that is only to get people to feel at home! I don't need to listen to anymore judgements." He stopped and said "I know babe, people like you because of xyz just every once in a while do what I like. " I told him that I would think about it

Well, my dh calls it into question when I am wearing shoes... He is convinced barefoot is better... Thanks for explaining "on one". I sort of could guess. My new sis-in-law here called it "riding" when my husbands daughter was constantly calling out her little girl at dinner. It was bothering me too and I should have said something. I hate to interfere with a parent though. But I should have said something. So I was glad when my sis-in-law did, asking, "why do you ride her like that?"

Its good that you stood up to him, in a healthy relationship you should be able to do that, take your stands with each other and its all okay. It doesn't sound like an argument that really stressed you out so that's good. I have to say, I am not seeing LSE those things he said. I cannot imagine my LSE brother ever, ever going on about how his girlfriend or his wife's behavior after a get-together, her actions or what she said, did or wore. I can imagine him brushing off anyone who tried to make a point about something like that. He just wouldn't want to focus on that. He would focus on having a good time at the party, on the positive, and only have positive, not critical things to say, afterward. He is uncomplicated socially. He focuses on making sure its good for everyone, having enough beer, good food, fireworks, what have you - that is his focus. Good food includes trying a new recipe, a new way to cook his the meat, maybe he bought a smoker and tried it out for this occasion. The beer he made himself, etc. Making sure there is enough for everyone and everyone is greeted. There just isn't time to focus on picking at anyone's behaviors.

Not that that is wrong - everyone is different. Different folks, different focus. But I keep finding myself reason to question: is your guy is really LSE? I am not seeing the main markers that say LSE to me, and I see things, like above, that don't seem LSE at all. Please tell me if you mind my changing the subject from your original topic to "is your guy really LSE". I'll stop if you want! But its been on my mind!

Its not a bad thing if he is not. It would be not so great if he is a Conflicter because the course that follows is just not good. I am not seeing/hearing things that remind me of SLE so i am relieved for that, for you. But did you ever think: what if he is not LSE after all? Because, I don't know, I don't think we are ALL destined to be with our Dual which is only one of 16 types of relations. Yes, Duality has a comfort level that's so nice but there is comfort with other types, too. If your future is marrying and being a parent, then what you really need is not someone who relates perfectly with you, but someone who is unselfish and willing to be all-in, side-by-side with you doing the hard work of parenting. That's when character and shared values matters more than anything, including type.

I can think of a lot of really, really good marriages I know of people who are NOT Duals. My parents (Benefit) and my brother (Superego) and another brother (Illusionary) and my brother in law (Semi-Duality) are some examples of long term marriage that are really,good and really strong and both are happy. My sis-in-law is really doing pretty good in her Conflicter marriage (EII/SLE), with a LOT of effort and some suffering, and also is another friend of mine in a Conflicter marraige (ESE/ILI) - I don't recommend knowingly going into a Conflicter marraige - one would have to be prepared for some great difficulties, but, both couples are raising children who are very very glad to have an intact family and home; it a priority for them. Its been really really hard, but I think God gives them extra graces, I really do.

I really like something Gulenko quoted in his discussion on Conflicters: marry a Dual and you will be happy and marry a Conflicter and you will become a philosopher. I really think we all need some of both, and we get a mix of both in the various relationship types, some requiring a much bigger dose of philosophy than others. But if you don't have a need for "philosophy" in your marriage then you often get it in other areas of your life. In your family of origin, in the workplace, in adverse circumstances in your life.

I did not know anything about Socionics when falling in love with either my first or my current husband. So I wonder what its like here, if you know abut Duality, that only-one-in-16 types of relationships, and you were lookign for that in a potential spouse. It really seems better not to seek that. Because you might miss a really good thing waiting for something that maybe was never meant for you to have. And it seems it woudl be much harder, much crueler, if you got serious with someone who is supposed to be your Dual, and in fact is your conflicter, and the relationship took its natural course of conflict, when you were sure this was never supposed to happen, it is more upsetting. It would be easier not to have any such expectation, and when the conflict starts the only thought is, "Can I live like this?"

So did you ever think, what if LSE boyfriend turns out to not be a LSE? Woudl that be okay? I hope it would. If you can stand up to each other in conflicts like you seem to be doing as described above, and coming to understanding after, and not having hard feelings, and if you truly desire being together and you have shared values and hopes and dreams, and there is willingness to commit to do the work to make it work, then it really should be fine if he is not. I do think so. Do you?

[Eliza Thomason]

@zap, I think its a matter a preference, not one being more right than another. They are like varying illuminations of reality. NPA is interesting and I don't see anything wrong with it. I remember Karen Horney's writings being big in the art therapy department at college. I personally like Socionics better than any of the various theories particularly because of Model A as it makes so much sense to me, and of course there is the relationship types - no other theory has that, and it really answers Qs about various relationships in my life that not other theory can.

[Words]

Mine usually go something like this:




At least in mind...

[you should never ask for a divorce]

This has simply been a misunderstanding.

I didn't say I'd be late, I said I'd be there for eight :colleges:

[Words]

Mine usually go something like this:




At least in mind...

[you should never ask for a divorce]

This has simply been a misunderstanding.

I didn't say I'd be late, I said I'd be there for eight

[Beautiful sky]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you claiming that NPA theory is a proven theory?

BTW, I agree that tantrums are not to be explained through Socionics, and that in adults such things are manifestations of immature behavior, though not necessarily narcissistic.

It is spacifically stated in the EII descriptoon wth? It's not immature especially when faced with Te that ignores people' feelings

[Beautiful sky]

Some descriptions are simply wrong, especially those that focus on the more neurotic or pathological manifestations of the types.

That kind of attitude is only when people simply want to ignore them

[golden]

What you described up there doesn't really sound like a tantrum to me, if it was as brief as you made it sound. A tantrum is more like a prolonged fit of rage.

But on the forum I've seen you sustain very emotional arguing for a good long while.

[willekeurig]

And don't give me any of this sexist garbage, I know many women who will agree that women tend to vent more than men.

Ahh, so it's impossible for women to have misogynistic beliefs? A bit like it's impossible for a homosexual to be a homophobic fucktwat congressman?

[Airman]

The following just happened:

I only slept 3 hours last night. I went to sleep by 3AM and got up full of energy by 6AM. Then I began to feel very tired by 9-10AM but still unable to sleep as of now (3:15PM here).

The EII who had a short relationship with me phoned me yesterday night. I was busy doing business in a hotel downtown, around 8PM when she called me. Still I asked for their pardon, got off from the table and talked to her for eight minutes. She wanted to see me desperately. I told her we could see each other today. I said I'd phone her back by 9PM but the meeting went until 9:30 and I got home by 10PM. So I didn't phone her because I was exhausted. Still I couldn't sleep.

Today she calls me and says 'ok what time do we meet?' and I say 'look I didn't sleep this night, I slept 3 hours only so I have to rest. You know my feelings for you, but I'm very much unable to have some conversation I'm feeling too tired.' She says 'ok' and ends the call. Then she comes with messages using caps lock like NEVER TALK TO ME AGAIN!!!! WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM????? very very sharp words directed at me.

I have observed EII females often have this sort of quasi-psychotic episode when their will is not satisfied. Is it because of a very childish ego-centered personality or is it due to something else?


edit: right now she just said I'm a retard and I'm useless and said 'get off from my life' then blocked me on messages. LOL what the f--- is this? I see sometimes EIIs are completely insane.

[marooned]

maybe it's that you didn't do what you said you would do. at first, perhaps she was trying to understand your point of view and why you didn't do what you said you would, and then after the last conversation, she put all the pieces together and decided that you were just messing with her, or obviously don't really care, or are not interested, or are not very respectful or understanding of how going back on your word affects her. obviously she wanted to see you more than you wanted to see her, and so she was probably disappointed, and then upset about it. if she's one of your bench girls, she might be tired of it. or perhaps this is a "heated disagreement" and she's awaiting a bold demonstration from you that would prove these things wrong, which sadly, it could end up where she deludes herself that a not-so-bold demonstration is bold enough, doesn't end her association with you, and so the cycle continues.

[Beautiful sky]

Rage is the very last resort to something that is trying to be communicated and that's not going through or having an effect. It's usually silence first as a means of communication of dissapproval or dissatisfaction

[lemontrees]

The following just happened:

I only slept 3 hours last night. I went to sleep by 3AM and got up full of energy by 6AM. Then I began to feel very tired by 9-10AM but still unable to sleep as of now (3:15PM here).

The EII who had a short relationship with me phoned me yesterday night. I was busy doing business in a hotel downtown, around 8PM when she called me. Still I asked for their pardon, got off from the table and talked to her for eight minutes. She wanted to see me desperately. I told her we could see each other today. I said I'd phone her back by 9PM but the meeting went until 9:30 and I got home by 10PM. So I didn't phone her because I was exhausted. Still I couldn't sleep.

Today she calls me and says 'ok what time do we meet?' and I say 'look I didn't sleep this night, I slept 3 hours only so I have to rest. You know my feelings for you, but I'm very much unable to have some conversation I'm feeling too tired.' She says 'ok' and ends the call. Then she comes with messages using caps lock like NEVER TALK TO ME AGAIN!!!! WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM????? very very sharp words directed at me.

I have observed EII females often have this sort of quasi-psychotic episode when their will is not satisfied. Is it because of a very childish ego-centered personality or is it due to something else?


edit: right now she just said I'm a retard and I'm useless and said 'get off from my life' then blocked me on messages. LOL what the f--- is this? I see sometimes EIIs are completely insane.

lol

sometimes this situation can be solved by texting "hey sorry i'm super tired b/c of these meetings, but i'm thinking of you and will call you soon."

also: sounds like she doesn't trust you, and you're not sure how much of yourself to invest in her. seems to be a back and forth.

[Pookie]

Yeah eiis do have thinly veiled anger issues. But that sounds overdramatic, which eii arent typically. So yeah id say she has some issues. Whenever theres rage spewing that is far overproportionate from the cause, its beca u se of one issue or another.

[Beautiful sky]

lol

sometimes this situation can be solved by texting "hey sorry i'm super tired b/c of these meetings, but i'm thinking of you and will call you soon."

also: sounds like she doesn't trust you, and you're not sure how much of yourself to invest in her. seems to be a back and forth.

I wanna marry you

[Airman]

Ok to everything said here, but Pookie had a good point in noticing that. Actually she has issues with her father, who's also LSE but an E8, he owns a german school here and he's very strict towards her. Perhaps I wonder, she feels so connected to me because I remind her of her father, something like having a good relationship with me would seem for her like she had a better relationship with her father. I've met him personally and I'm sure he's LSE E8. And they have issues most of the time. He forces her into a sort of slave labor at his school, pays her little, is a wealthy man but keeps her under his total dominance. I don't like him particularly. It seems to me she's projecting her relationship with her father in me. A tiny thing was enough for her to burst in anger and perhaps feel really sad. But the thing is I really like her and I told her that. Let's see what happens. Often EII females tend to have a very spoiled-girl attitude in relationships, they want a man who does everything and thinks about everything for them. They're often not very independent women, they need the man as a safe haven, but their need is as a safe haven from everything, maybe even life itself. And she couldn't understand that because I was so tired I didn't want to meet her and sound/be disappointing or boring or seem uninterested in her. I want the best. But then she couldn't understand this and also probably due to a lack of Si she didn't get that for me feeling okay physically and mentally is my top priority otherwise I can't do anything properly.

And plus. She was very very unpolite towards me today. I think she might have just tossed away a great opportunity. Unless she comes to talk to me and apologizes, I won't go after her. I think a little more respect here would be necessary even if she wanted to tell me to fuck off, she didn't have to repeat harsh words and swearings so much as she did. Unfortunately unbalanced people sometimes throw their anger at some random person and I happened to be the target. Perhaps due to resembling her father.