Some are OK some aren'tOriginally Posted by consentingadult
NTR
Question to EIEs: how do you experience SLIs? (ENFj-ISTp conflict relations)
Some are OK some aren't
NTR
Good question, i'll make a statement to say i'm agnostic.
Edit: This is actually false because the guy I thought was SLI is in fact ILI.
At first you might act serious in front of the SLI. He won't mind. He'll say nothing, you can't get something out of an SLI, not by the method the EIE is good with: his Ego funtions. If you try to use a big smile and laugher, he will crawl back on himself and will only reply short sentences like "oh yes?", "haha", "hum", while having facial expressions which demonstrate he takes you for the dumbest fuck in the world and while thinking you are the dumbest fuck in the world. On the outside he'll still be smiling and being nice, never will he ever say (when you are just the both of you) how much he despises you, he'll only do so when he has people close to him that can back him up.
The EIE, will feel frustrated, annoyed, angry. He wants things to be smooth, he'll try to work the interaction at first. He'll laugh at the sarcastic jokes of the SLI, the jokes that says he's the dumbest fuck in the world. He'll try really hard. At some point, the EIE will also despise the SLI, but only for a short time. After some time, he'll come back to the SLI and do the same things, and it can go a certain time like that.
The best for the EIE is to not try to liven up the mood with his strongest function. You never, ever, use Fe to try to make the SLI smile, he'll either take you for a shitbag or feel bad. Instead you dry the fuck out of yourself and you use only declarations that makes sens logically, that are facts and that are logically correct, that bring something factual to the interaction. You can't have fun with him. It's always distant. The more distant you are, the more appealing the interaction is. So you go closer. When you get closer you realize it's bad and it frustrates you a bit because it seemed so good for a moment.
Last edited by Mega; 01-04-2015 at 11:30 AM.
Well, if you could stop being so fucking selfish yourself, world could be better
edit: narrowminded actually
EIEs think of SLIs like a stubborn version of their dual LSI, they'll amp up the Fe when it doesn't seem to be getting a response, but this just makes the SLI dig in their heels and resist more strongly. Responses become single-word, purely factual. Long periods of tense silence. These two get along better in a group.
How I experience my relationship with the SLI at work, no sens of group, it looks like he could backstab you and then offer you flowers. They have no density, no value, their only sens of self is toward some object they decipher. Imo they have no emotional connection with anything. They could bow and be nice if it's beneficial for them, then proceed to backstab you and tell you are the worst scum on earth, to them it's normal, nothing hit them in the back of their head saying "yo mate, it's not right". And what does is superficial.
EIE. (the fucker rant that is going to happen can suck my dick btw)
You've always been EIE imho, one of the fun kind
But then i'm kinda a big fan of the SEE too so...
and i can type for shit
Different polarities. SLI is going to want to vegitate in his free time, whether thats at home by himself in front of a television, or at his best friends in front of a television. EIE feels fine with doing nothing, sometimes because this calms his worry wort Si superego especially when he needs to recharge his energy. The trouble comes when EIE realizes chillaxing in front of a TV/internet is on the schedule everyday, day in and day out for the SLI. Which wouldn't be so bad the EIE thinks, if the SLI would be a little more reactive and I don't mean the chuckles and snickers and cheshire cat smiles, even the most emotive SLI leave something to be desired for EIE.
EIE will be baffled by SLI ability to seemingly hold on to feelings for years and his ability to live off a single smile or hug or shared conversation or romance, even though EIE does the exact same thing.
When it comes to activities together things seem to work out fine while alone, although SLI will feel sensitive and oft slighted by EIE tastefully competitive remarks, very much unlike IEE jokes, whose pokes and jabs are never meant to cause harm. And why would EIE say these things? Audaciousness brings out the fun in others, a lesson perfected by IEE, but of the wrong kind with EIE.
In public, EIE will at first be totally disappointed that self-concious SLI hides in the back of the groups, perfectly content viewing the unfolding play from the bleachers.
EIE will find himself trying to draw SLI into the proceedings, if he is clever he would do this quietly and with tact, "Are you alright? It doesn't seem like you are having fun?" In which the SLI will reply with easily perceptive scorn "Yes I'm fine", I don't want to move" his tone perfectly saying: why are you even asking me?!
Eventually EIE initial disappointment will turn into disdain, he sees how inept SLI behaves when put in the spotlight. The spotlight needn't be some center stage, merely as the sole person talking in a group in the living room, or around a restaurant table. The EIE has manners, even if he feels SLI is a dead weight tag along, a wet blanket, a guy who acts above it all to cope with his insecurities, he will steer the conversation away from speech shy SLI. Next time though, SLI just won't be invited along at all.
Unfortunately SLI will notice he's not being invited out, not that he would ever advocate for his needs anyway, he will just simply sulk. The sulking will annoy EIE who needs people to advocate for their own rights, he would gladly invite SLI out if only the SLI would just say "Hey, can I tag-along?" "Of course!" exclaims EIE. The cycle repeats.
Last edited by wacey; 12-22-2014 at 07:22 AM.
SLI will at first enjoy his firm handle on life that the EIE seems to lack in abundance, finding EIE absentmindedness amusing. After all EIE is oft forgetful of pretty much everything from the keys in the house, to locking the doors, to texting back, to doing the dishes, to feeding the cat, to cleaning. Cleaning is something SLI doesn't readily do everyday, so disagreements won't fall on this front. SLI enjoys the odd culnary delight and EIE loves participating, except EIE never seems to participate enough with the preparation or even the purchasing ingredients with money? And why should he? Conserving resources is a common trait of EIE, it's interaction and expression he freely shares. SLI will feel put out, observing that he is the one who is giving more in this relationship and that is justifiably unfair. Because the opposite is true for SLI, its resources he freely shares, not daily emotional expression.
SLI will feel EIE is not pulling his weight which is all fairness for the individualist SLI he might be perfectly correct, after all EIE's dual the LSI will always let it be known when and how the EIE can help. This is because EIE needs to hear it. SLI won't ever say something to save his soul until things become so severe he pops and shouts out, "are you going to help pay for that?!"
So as time proceeds he will stop helping EIE. It will be imperceptive at first, but eventually it will become full blown denial of the EIE presence. Every soul searching straight from the source feeling EIE is having, which comes so naturally and with welcomed open arms by other sociotypes will be seen as totally pointless by SLI, who himself meets the world simply and without commotion. A flat tire? No problem think SLI, "I will just get a new one". The same will happen to the EIE, yet to cope he needs to share the story of how it happened and fit this into the overall drama that is his life. He needs to turn this tragedy into triumph and the SLI will misunderstand and become annoyed by these Shakespearean suffocating melodramatics.
Unfortunately SLI is the giving type and not partial to self-reflection. He will continue to help the EIE and for his overall detriment, EIE will never give him what he needs, fluid intituition that knows when and how to come close and pull away according to SLIs inclinations. SLI wants space whilst being close and EIE needs closeness while being close. SLI will become disheartened that EIE expects him to be more then he wants to be and what he wants to be is the steady hand that doesn't take problems heavily.
Ultimately SLI will participate by providing for his EIE friend on the practical front, after all he is a caregiver orientated towards serious ethics. At the same time he will lord his managed lifestyle over EIE, secretly thinking he is better then the EIE in most ways that matter, IE: extroverted logic.
Last edited by wacey; 12-20-2014 at 05:32 PM.
IME, not true. Might depends on enneagram (for SLI's different behavior, here giving or not).
Not backstabbing in the beta sense. Deltas don't backstab that way. They are just there for thier interests and if what you are doing is not in their interest then they will pull away and refuse to help you. This can feel like a betrayal to a EIE, yet it isn't of the same proactive flavour your post is describing.
How much they give depends on how you treat them. This sociotype gives and gives if they like you and they can remember why they like you for a looooong time. To their detriment sometimes because it can lead to being a door mat.
Wasn't for you. It was for what I was going to go through in the chatbox if someone were to bring this out in a discussion.
Often irl it's just like there is no way to connect. It's like shooting pellets at the shell of a quiet turtle, everything is automatically deflected. SLI seems a nice person, but doesn't respond in the ways I anticipate. Will say things I don't quite understand, but I don't even know how to properly phrase questions that would clarify. Will sometimes make observations that seem obvious to me. Will perhaps correct me over some assertion I've made. I may feel awkward or gauche and pull back.
Sometimes I underestimate them bc they don't draw attention to themselves. If I'm around the person regularly they can draw my respect for the restraint, precision, humility, and integrity they often appear to have, and for their feeling for physical things or problem solving or pace, things I lack. They seem able to deeply sink into a subject and swim in it. I splash around on the surfaces of things.
Last edited by golden; 12-20-2014 at 07:01 PM.
I'm not EIE but close enough. I have an SLI, 378, sx first brother in-law. He inspires me to get aggressive toward him and we never seem to agree on anything. When I get the upperhand in a disagreement he shoots me down with sexually or psychologically demeaning comments. That was my first real introduction to interacting with a male SLI in recent memory. I haven't seen him in a while but I am told he is trying to chill out on his, often politically incorrect, personal feelings and opinions on other people. I think I am trying to be diplomatic, in my word choices. I would like to experience a different interaction with an SLI irl. I don't have anyone to really compare him to.
Edit: Not all my family members have the same kind of interactions with him but all the IEI have various issues with him. He is a hate him or love him kind of guy. When I was told how kind, generous and understanding he is by other family members, I almost fell over. He just really reacts to me in a strange way. He admits an attraction to me so that is awkward. When he is being playful I actually like him and forget why he annoys me so much.378,837,738 If you are the 378, you are ambitious, innovative and protective. You want to be efficient, happy and straight-forward. You are a dynamic go-getter, focused on the prize. An expansive powerhouse, you see the big picture and a positive future with the will to make it happen. Seeking success, obstacles are seen as competitive challenges. Your life mission is to see what is possible and find innovative ways to achieve your goals. A true mover and shaker, you are happiest when you are in a position of power to manifest your vision and make things happen. You need to be doing to feel alive. You can be so expeditious, assertive and results oriented that you miss your impact on others and the deeper meaning and significance of why you are doing what you are doing.
387...assertives
You have all three Expansive Solution Enneacards (3, 7 & 8)
Naturally forward and expansive, you see yourself as assertive, self-motivated, expeditious and results oriented. Focused on action, you resist being controlled and letting your feelings get in the way of achieving your goals. When opposed, you react immediately and when necessary are not afraid to move against others to manage problems.
the sexual 378 is triple assertive and has the added jolt of the high intensity sexual energy. 378 is self assured, innovative and bold, there will be more of a focus on being strong and attractive compared to other instincts. The 379 is a bit softer and more adept at softening their presentation. We always refer to the 379 is the "cool guy" or "cool girl" tritype as they want to be trendy and cool but also blend. The 378 may be more outlandish so pays less attention to being cool and more attention to being the trailblazer.
Well if you lead with the 7 instead of 3 you will be less concerned with image and be less likely to track what others want you to be as the 7 is more concerned with following their own muse. However with the sexual subtype in charge both the 378 and the 738 will want to be alluring to potential intimates and mates and have a desire to find a mate who can handle their triple assertive energy.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Hmm, sounds very strange way of behaving for an SLI, are you sure you have him typed correctly, Aylen?
What makes me wonder when you say this:
This sounds like LSE/LSI/ILE/EIE Jurassic park hybrid behaviour. SLI respond well to diplomacy and I have never heard anyone say that an SLI needs to chill out about their personal opinions, these people are about as chill as it gets, which is partly the reason for their conflicting intertype relationship with EIE.He inspires me to get aggressive toward him and we never seem to agree on anything. When I get the upperhand in a disagreement he shoots me down with sexually or psychologically demeaning comments. That was my first real introduction to interacting with a male SLI in recent memory. I haven't seen him in a while but I am told he is trying to chill out on his, often politically incorrect, personal feelings and opinions on other people. I think I am trying to be diplomatic, in my word choices.
What about himself, or what he does annoy you so much? I'm curious to know.
Super-ego relationships are cold almost non-confrontational especially in introvert pairings as both individuals keep mostly to themselves. As irrational Ip both of you guys sync up energy wise. IEI might become frustrated that SLI doesn't have a "fast" button and SLI will purposely slow down if IEI tries to push them. Overall I would say IEI/SLI get along quite nicely if both respect each others space. I'm mostly talking to you IEI.
Last edited by wacey; 12-20-2014 at 06:43 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Don't take this negatively, but essentially you just said nothing with a paragraph.
some people can read between the lines.
Edit: Maybe this will add some clarity. SLI have normal (or abnormal) ntr human problems. Intertype relations seem to be based on psychological closeness, to a certain degree, so we did not have enough distance between us. We were forced, by circumstance to live in the same home for a period of time. He and I have very different belief systems. I have accepted a lot of the issues I had with him so if we had to be in close proximity again it might be different.
Last edited by Aylen; 12-20-2014 at 07:50 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Okay, Aylen.
That is slightly more convincing evidence. All I was looking for was something definable in intertype terms.
Not to derail the thread, but everyone's retarded in their polr function. They experience it mainly from the perspective of their Base, changing it needs to be done indirectly through the hidden agenda. So SLIs don't experience emotions in themselves, only as a subset of their sensory state (Si). Emotions for EIE are front and center, subset of nothing. SLIs can't be emotionally influenced except through Fi, they have to sense a growing personal connection to other people, only then do they start expressing emotions. Trying to influence their emotions prior to the formation of this connection will only succeed if the emotions are sensually "pleasing", in line with Si. As in soft, in tune with their bodily rhythms like hunger and tiredness. EIEs with their weak Si polr are likely to create more sensory discomfort.
I find the SLIs appreciate and respond to Fe as long as it is not overdone. I do adjust my Fe level with SLIs because I know that too much Fe makes them uncomfortable.
@consentingadult I find SLIs to be intimidatingly quiet, and then abrupt when they do speak. They are very hard for me to read if I am trying to establish a connection. I usually try to find something that we might have in common or that is of interest to them. It is nice to know that occasional randomness on my part is probably not a problem, after all, their duals are IEEs.
Once I get to know them, I usually find them very attractive. Their reticence is temporarily alluring. But if I am having having to pull information out of them 24/7, that starts getting old. I am sure it is annoying to them.
Last edited by Iris; 12-22-2014 at 01:39 AM.
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k
I don't find LSIs to be all that quiet. Their body language can look pretty quiet. Conversation ... once they know you, they can talk your ear off. They can outtalk even me! They also ime are pretty good at "connection" talk in business and in the community. They can be quiet when there's no immediate need to speak, but they appear to still be scanning the environment and look somewhat ready for action. Their gaze appears to move toward me.
SLI does not look this way to me. I can't tell what's going on with them, their gaze appears sort of like they're moving directly backward away from me and seems a bit immobile to me. They don't usually talk much to me, maybe they do to other people.
Last edited by golden; 12-22-2014 at 03:21 AM.
The cool thing is that I know a father and son who are SLI and LSI. The LSI is much more talkative, loves to explain things to people. He does not have as much range of expression as I do, but if he wants to, he will try to make faces and/or employ pauses for dramatic effect (Fe valuing.) My SLI friends don't do either very much. Their faces are very blank most of the time, whereas the LSI can look kind of hawkish. SLI speech has a softer sound, the LSI is more clipped sounding. The father and son resemble each other and have similar physical capabilities. But the SLI is very economical with his efforts and speech and is reluctant to sacrifice his comfort. The LSI will more willingly sacrifice his comfort and energies for a good cause. You can definitely see the difference between Beta and Delta with them.
The SLIs tantalize me because I can't tell what they are thinking. LSIs just come out and say it. There is less mystery with them. But the freely given information is music to my ears. There are so many moments of resonance with the LSI that the conversation takes on a fluid quality. Conversations with SLIs don't have as many moments of resonance.
Last edited by Iris; 12-22-2014 at 02:29 AM.
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k
Very good descriptions and interesting observations. My experience with these types are exactly the same. I work with a weird (but obvious) case of SLI though, who is quite jovial, animated and has a hearty laughter, so much so I typed him ESTp back then when I had no idea about the IE's. Really likable individual, but huge differences in mentality still show after spending lots of time together, so I'm pretty sure relationship would be doomed sooner or later.
@wacey Your descriptions ^ are really good. Where did you get that stuff?
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k
@Iris. Experience; applied theory; first hand experience with both types; imagination; empathy for both types; growing understanding of IE.
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