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Thread: craftsmanship

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    Default craftsmanship

    So, this is kind of a crappy question if I'm going to be honest.

    What type is most predisposed to physical craftsmanship- the type you see on etsy, where something hand-made is made for a purpose, but also very artistically? The reason I ask is because my "craftsmanship" tends to be limited to pointless little items, random carvings, drawings, and whatever strikes my momentary interest. Creating practical items steals a bit of the "magic" away.

    What function is most involved in this sort of practical, yet artistic, creation? Or even just practical creation. Does this type get the "thrill" of the act of creation even though they are creating something relatively boring?

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    Si possibly. A lot of Delta STs are oftentimes into physical craftsmanship though I've never seen one with an artistic bent but that doesn't mean they couldn't be into that. Alpha SFs might be more into artistic crafting.

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    Delta ST

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    I agree with delta ST, in particular SLI. Think Ron Swanson on Parks and Recreation.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Thanks for the responses. What is it about delta STs that this sort of thing is likely to be rewarding for them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    Thanks for the responses. What is it about delta STs that this sort of thing is likely to be rewarding for them?
    Si: Doing a hands-on, artistic activity and creating something aesthetically pleasing.
    Te: Making something that has a practical purpose.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Martha Stewart!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIIbrarian View Post
    Si: Doing a hands-on, artistic activity and creating something aesthetically pleasing.
    Te: Making something that has a practical purpose.
    Ok, now on the flipside of this. What is responsible for spending inordinately long amounts of time doing fruitless work, designing little aesthetic trinkets that will ultimately have no practical use? The motivation is unknown.

    Si in the void?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    Ok, now on the flipside of this. What is responsible for spending inordinately long amounts of time doing fruitless work, designing little aesthetic trinkets that will ultimately have no practical use? The motivation is unknown.

    Si in the void?
    That would be alpha SF. They devalue Te.
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    Any industry has conflicting types in it. It's silly to think only one quadra or club deals with an entire field of talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by LIIbrarian View Post
    Si: Doing a hands-on, artistic activity and creating something aesthetically pleasing.
    Te: Making something that has a practical purpose.
    Thank you for supplying the newcomer with some stereotypes. But that's not what ouronis asked for.

    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    What type is most predisposed to physical craftsmanship- the type you see on etsy, where something hand-made is made for a purpose, but also very artistically? The reason I ask is because my "craftsmanship" tends to be limited to pointless little items, random carvings, drawings, and whatever strikes my momentary interest. Creating practical items steals a bit of the "magic" away.

    What function is most involved in this sort of practical, yet artistic, creation? Or even just practical creation. Does this type get the "thrill" of the act of creation even though they are creating something relatively boring?
    I think ESE women like etsy. Decorative, hand-made, cutsey, overpriced things that have a uniqueness that people want to show others... I think EIEs would like stuff like that, too, and they're Si-PoLRs. I know of some EIE craftsmen; one makes numerous decorative outdoor crafts and functional mechanical things such as a boat and a classic car...and he also tends a large flower garden daily. Many Delta STs don't occupy themselves in such a way. My SLI mom does the occasional craft, but in this her conflictor surpasses her. Another SLI I know is not good with his hands and would prefer to read chemistry books and set things on fire than to make practical things; he's not a practical person.

    I love to create practical items, but what I knit is more streamlined. I've made very basic ceramic boxes and glazed (painted) them with detailed designs, though the design itself is purely functional. My ceramics instructor was SLI and very good at it. But I'm sure an IEI could be a good sculptor too. And my grandma, who I learned some knitting from and who has made attractive purses and quilts, is IEE. The woman who used to run the graphic arts shop in town I typed as LIE, and come Christmas she would make a load of decorations to sell, like painted pinecones tied with ribbons.

    I think every type can create utilitarian artwork, but the designs they use would have some of their personality, just as poetry styles differ between types.

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    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
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    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post

    Thank you for supplying the newcomer with some stereotypes. But that's not what ouronis asked for.
    I wasn't trying to stereotype. I was just stating why craftsmanship might be appealing to delta STs in terms of cognitive functions. I know there's variation within a type and that types other than delta STs can be fine craftsmen/craftswomen.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    I concur with the sentiment that it doesn't always apply to Delta ST's. My hobbies and interests have a literature bent, with quite a lot of computer related items.

    Although I can see why people would associate it with us based on the cognative functions, but logical conclusions don't always translate to the real world. For instance: I'm quite useless at a lot of practical 'maintainence' matters perhaps due to the abundance of Te in my household and lack of interest on the other.

    It actually annoys me a bit to see examples of 'SLIs' typed purely because they're in a video disassembling/assembling something and not speaking much.
    Last edited by Waster; 12-16-2014 at 10:19 AM.





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    I thought immediately of SLI when I saw the title. And I'd agree, types especially with . I wouldn't type yourself by this though.
    Last edited by Olly From Wally World; 12-16-2014 at 10:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Any industry has conflicting types in it. It's silly to think only one quadra or club deals with an entire field of talent.



    Thank you for supplying the newcomer with some stereotypes. But that's not what ouronis asked for.



    I think ESE women like etsy. Decorative, hand-made, cutsey, overpriced things that have a uniqueness that people want to show others... I think EIEs would like stuff like that, too, and they're Si-PoLRs. I know of some EIE craftsmen; one makes numerous decorative outdoor crafts and functional mechanical things such as a boat and a classic car...and he also tends a large flower garden daily. Many Delta STs don't occupy themselves in such a way. My SLI mom does the occasional craft, but in this her conflictor surpasses her. Another SLI I know is not good with his hands and would prefer to read chemistry books and set things on fire than to make practical things; he's not a practical person.

    I love to create practical items, but what I knit is more streamlined. I've made very basic ceramic boxes and glazed (painted) them with detailed designs, though the design itself is purely functional. My ceramics instructor was SLI and very good at it. But I'm sure an IEI could be a good sculptor too. And my grandma, who I learned some knitting from and who has made attractive purses and quilts, is IEE. The woman who used to run the graphic arts shop in town I typed as LIE, and come Christmas she would make a load of decorations to sell, like painted pinecones tied with ribbons.

    I think every type can create utilitarian artwork, but the designs they use would have some of their personality, just as poetry styles differ between types.
    Perhaps I'm asking the wrong person, since you are ignoring Ti, but via what features of personality, socionics,etc. do you assert these cutoffs to be made? For example, many people would say that socionics is predictive in the way that the first sentence of this post is "since you are ignoring Ti," but you seem to deal with it on a different level, like being outside of the predictive aspects is the norm, and any stereotypical behavior are merely accidents of semantically similar aspects of people vs descriptions/models of people.

    I'm reaching for the mental difference I am seeing in your writing, so feel free to correct me with what you see to be the actual rush of what's going on.

    I guess more directly, the point I'm making is, if every type can create utilitarian artwork, why would they? Is the "fun" or the "thrill" of creation consistent? Should this be a major difference between people of the same type, what general activities they find creatively stimulating?

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    I guess it depends on what you're building. For instance, I built me one of these once:
    Attachment 4835

    It took years of salvaging scraps; roadkill, leftover meatloaf, beard shavings, and the highly unlikely occurrence of lightening striking my house, but eventually with enough grit I was able to create a masterpiece. It all began when my wife wanted a dish washer for Christmas, and I was sick of doing them myself, so why not just build my own, right? Why not demonstrate my love? She loved it! It turned out (after reminding it that it owed me for instilling it with frickin' life) that it could do a whole host of cool shit, like bake cookies, prune the hedges, and eat the neighbors' cats. It even made ornaments for our Christmas tree, which oddly enough had bows made of whiskers tied to them. It all went well until it started demanding pay and health insurance. I told it, "Hey, I gave you life you s.o.b., you ought to be a bit more grateful!" The story didn't end very well. It sort ended somewhere between a Greek Tragedy, a B-flick, and some famous 19th century novel.

    Moral of the story is that cat's are the devil and that crafting living things is probably best left to the Titans.

    I don't know what has gotten into me tonight.

    I think SEI and SLIs have the advantage when it comes to craftmanship and artistic ability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmers View Post
    I guess it depends on what you're building. For instance, I built me one of these once:
    Attachment 4835

    It took years of salvaging scraps; roadkill, leftover meatloaf, beard shavings, and the highly unlikely occurrence of lightening striking my house, but eventually with enough grit I was able to create a masterpiece. It all began when my wife wanted a dish washer for Christmas, and I was sick of doing them myself, so why not just build my own, right? Why not demonstrate my love? She loved it! It turned out (after reminding it that it owed me for instilling it with frickin' life) that it could do a whole host of cool shit, like bake cookies, prune the hedges, and eat the neighbors' cats. It even made ornaments for our Christmas tree, which oddly enough had bows made of whiskers tied to them. It all went well until it started demanding pay and health insurance. I told it, "Hey, I gave you life you s.o.b., you ought to be a bit more grateful!" The story didn't end very well. It sort ended somewhere between a Greek Tragedy, a B-flick, and some famous 19th century novel.

    Moral of the story is that cat's are the devil and that crafting living things is probably best left to the Titans.

    I don't know what has gotten into me tonight.

    I think SEI and SLIs have the advantage when it comes to craftmanship and artistic ability.
    Hmm, so then, Si doms are Titans? This brings a whole new perspective to the Greek battle for the heavens.

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    In some ways I think SLIs fall into this craftsmen mould just because they are the best tool for the job. I mean, you don't use a philips screw driver to do a job that requires a flat head screw driver.

    Confused? Don't be. Craftsmen SLI are the ultimate connoisseurs of sensations and because they are ego blocked with extroverted thinking, they can't help but think in terms of whats working for them, how things work, what works the best, what can be afforded, how it can be afforded, what is simplest, why its the simplest, what's the latest, what is convenient, what would make them comfortable, how would working make them comfortable, what is timeless ect.

    Because they are irrational, their projects start out small and grow in scale and scope, BUT only when they feel like it.........

    The Project

    Lets say male SLI decides, "hmm, I think I need an office because I want to put my office stuff somewhere". So they putts around the outside of the house looking at the walls and decide on building an expansion off the back patio. Then they go inside and fall in front of the television and they forget about all about the office.

    Later, while shopping at the strip mall, they take a stroll over to the Home Depot. Not really a planned visit, but not really not planned either. Their subconscious lead them here. Irrationals after all move with their inner tides. In the store, they make a mental note of the cost of lumber, thinking about it for a minute while they continue to walk around, and knowing how much cash is in the bank account, they decide on purchasing the necessary lumber. So they do. Just like that.

    When they get home, the begin tearing down the walls of their house. They had done this a few times before at a friends house, they basically remember how to do it, how hard could it be? Of course, they wouldn't openly doubt themselves like other sociotypes might to the point of terminating the project, being an extroverted thinking ego they are perfectly confident they know what they are doing (do they actually? Not necessarily, here comes the irrational strategist once again, they will deal with the problems as they arrive, why worry needlessly?) With half the outside house walls demolished and 8:00 pm in the evening, they decide to call it quits. They are hungry and tired and the wall can wait. And so it does, for two and a half weeks......

    Their work becomes more stressful and the office expansion project, which is their own thing, can wait. One warm Saturday morning they get the desire to begin working on it again, maybe it was the coffee they had, maybe it was the newspaper full of office supply adds they read, or the nice sleep the night before, who knows? SLI rhythms are a complete and utter mystery to those that live around them, although a preceptive IEE dual will come up for a million reasons for the both of them. When asked why they are working on the office today a SLI, with a slight brusk yet simplistic superiority will shrug and curtly say "I don't know, because I feel like it". Indeed.

    And so the new house office is built "brick by brick". SLI with that contact extroverted thinking function will assemble the new office from the floor to the carpet to the walls and dry wall to the windows to the electricity to the office desk. With that vortical cognition, SLI visualizes the ends results be piecing together the materials, textures, colours inside his mind and moves to make the image reality. For instance, an office desk was tailored made to fit the custom ordered leather office chair they purchased from ebay a month before, the one that you could sit in forever.

    So the office project is completed, six months later. It was the perfect use of week end time. Did you really think SLI would work on it from dusk till dawn every day until it was completed? Of course the office completion was the goal, and goals are quietly accomplished by SLI, yet the path getting there is not straight and well defined. And not only was their extroverted thinking stretching its wings, working on a home project allowed them to move at their own pace: close friends could visit, snacks could be had whenever, maybe beer?

    The Results

    In this way, the irrational SLI tinkers about his or her little goals. Some build offices on their homes. I wrote this as a semi-piece of fiction by the way. The parameters of the story, however, are the same for all SLI I have known in my life. Others do what SLIs do that makes them happy and satisfied. These introverts dance to the beat of their own drums, an absolute requirement for fulfulment. Yet they all become "craftsmen" in their perspective fields of interest simply because they amalgamate information and actually apply this information. Much like the technical sciences are applied science, meaning practised, SLI who end up practising their crafts might become highly skilled.

    This makes them indispensable to their intra-personal circle. Maybe as irrationals and introverts, other people don't notice how skilled a little SLI has grown? Until something breaks. Thank -god in those moments for the helpful little caregiver SLI, all that hard work building his own home office paid off because now he knows how to dry wall your own, or at least give you some advice on it....heavily prompted for the details of course!

    Just as a real life craftsmen, the SLI might become crotchety and a know-it-all in their golden years with their advice that borders on the blunt and pedantic. How common sense can a person grow to become, you might think? In the case of the realist SLI, very common sense. Essentially they mean well, a guy can trust years of fruitful labour the craftmen has collected. Who can blame a person whose sense of personal identity and self worth partly stems from their ability to be useful to others by knowing what works and how it works while simultaneously living according to their own rhymes?

    Craftsmen SLI don't start out as craftsmen, but just like a real life master crafts person (you're welcome feminazis), SLI build on experiences overtime. Apprentices soon become the master.

    SLI
    is the perfect blueprint to build a master crafts person: you've got one part introverted sensor with impeccable sensing abilities, extroverted logic that remembers usefulness/not usefulness, a carefree attitude that solves problems as they arrive, a strategist that notices details, an irrational that moves according to rhythms individually defined, a positivist that creates from neutral spaces rather then detracts from them, an asker that makes them seemingly fluid conversationalists as well as garners of useful facts. These are useful personal skills as a trades person, shame they are so goddamn introverted. As an obstinate individual who freely manipulates his resources without psychological baggage, a person who will builds on resources he/she doesn't posses in order to accomplish his/her goals, and as objectivist types who do not emotionally separate work from non-work, they might actually be enjoying themselves whilst working on personal projects, perhaps not even seeing what they are doing as work at all? They are results types who quickly get to the heart of the matter doing several tasks at once. Who has not heard their undisguised and frank statements "why are you doing it that way - it doesn't work that way"? Finally, as logician of the extroverted variety they think about what is right and wrong and freely and gladly absorb information of the useful type for themselves, after all if it is supposed to work a certain way then it should work a certain way.

    Their environment is an extension of themselves, anything that is of value to their outer world is of value to themselves. Knowledge about their environments is freely absorbed into their psyches. Not only is this information freely absorbed, it is also freely, quietly and without fuss, manipulated to suit their needs.

    In my opinion these are a few reasons SLI are known as the craftsmen. Because their minds make them the best tools to earn that title.
    Last edited by wacey; 12-19-2014 at 12:16 AM.
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    I appreciate well made things. I even seek them out. I tried knitting and crocheting in my teens but I totally sucked at it and my instructor let me know how bad I sucked at it. I hope the appreciation of fine craftsmanship will not change my type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    In some ways I think SLIs fall into this craftsmen mould just because they are the best tool for the job. I mean, you don't use a philips screw driver to do a job that requires a flat head screw driver.

    Confused? Don't be. Craftsmen SLI are the ultimate connoisseurs of sensations and because they are ego blocked with extroverted thinking, they can't help but think in terms of whats working for them, how things work, what works the best, what can be afforded, how it can be afforded, what is simplest, why its the simplest, what's the latest, what is convenient, what would make them comfortable, how would working make them comfortable, what is timeless ect.

    Because they are irrational, their projects start out small and grow in scale and scope, BUT only when they feel like it.........

    The Project

    Lets say male SLI decides, "hmm, I think I need an office because I want to put my office stuff somewhere". So they kind of putts around the outside of the house looking at the walls and decide on building an expansion off the back patio. Then they go inside and fall in front of the television and they forget about all about the office.

    Later, while shopping at the strip mall, they take a stroll over to the Home Depot. Not really planned visit, but not really not planned either. Irrationals after all move with their inner tides. In the store, they make a mental note of the cost of lumber, thinking about it for a minute while they continue to walk around, and knowing how much cash is in the bank account, they decide on purchasing the necessary lumber. So they do. Just like that.

    When they get home, the begin tearing down the walls of their house. They had done this a few times before at a friends house, they basically remember how to do it, how hard could it be? Of course, they wouldn't openly doubt themselves like other sociotypes might to the point of terminating the project, being an extroverted thinking ego they are perfectly confident they know what they are doing (do they actually? Not necessarily, here comes the irrational strategist once again, they will deal with the problems as they arrive, why worry needlessly?) With half the outside house walls demolished and 8:00 pm in the evening, they decide to call it quits. They are hungry and tired and the wall can wait. And so it does, for two and a half weeks......

    Their work becomes more stressful and the office expansion project, which is their own thing, can wait. One warm Saturday morning they get the desire to begin working on it again, maybe it was the coffee they had, maybe it was the newspaper full of office supply adds they read, or the nice sleep the night before, who knows? SLI rhythms are a complete and utter mystery to those that live around them, although a preceptive IEE dual will come up for a million reasons for the both of them. When asked why they are working on the office today a SLI, with a slight brusk yet simplistic superiority will shrug and curtly say "I don't know, because I feel like it". Indeed.

    And so the new house office is built "brick by brick". SLI with that contact extroverted thinking function will assemble the new office from the floor to the carpet to the walls and dry wall to the windows to the electricity to the office desk. With that vortical cognition, SLI visualizes the ends results be piecing together the materials, textures, colours inside his mind and moves to make the image reality. For instance, an office desk was tailored made to fit the custom ordered leather office chair they purchased from ebay a month before, the one that you could sit in forever.

    So the office project is completed, six months later. It was the perfect use of week end time. Did you really think SLI would work on it from dusk till dawn every day until it was completed? Of course the office completion was the goal, and goals are quietly accomplished by SLI, yet the path getting there is not straight and well defined. And not only was their extroverted thinking stretching its wings, working on a home project allowed them to move at their own pace: close friends could visit, snacks could be had whenever, maybe beer?

    The Results

    In this way, the irrational SLI tinkers about his or her little goals. Some build offices on their homes. I wrote this as a semi-piece of fiction by the way. The parameters of the story, however, are the same for all SLI I have known in my life. Others do what SLIs do that makes them happy and satisfied. These introverts dance to the beat of their own drums, an absolute requirement for fulfulment. Yet they all become "craftsmen" in their perspective fields of interest simply because they amalgamate information and actually apply this information. Much like the technical sciences are applied science, meaning practised, SLI who end up practising their crafts might become highly skilled.

    This makes them indispensable to their intra-personal circle. Maybe as irrationals and introverts, other people don't notice how skilled a little SLI has grown? Until something breaks. Thank -god in those moments for the helpful little caregiver SLI, all that hard work building his own home office paid off because now he knows how to dry wall your own, or at least give you some advice on it....heavily prompted for the details of course!

    Just as a real life craftsmen, the SLI might become crotchety and a know-it-all in their golden years with their advice that borders on the blunt and pedantic. How common sense can a person grow to become you might think? In the case of the SLI, very common sense. Essentially they mean well, a guy can trust years of fruitful labour the craftmen has collected. Who can blame a person whose sense of personal identity and self worth partly stems from their ability to be useful to others by knowing what works and how it works while simultaneously living according to their own rhymes?

    Craftsmen SLI don't start out as craftsmen, but just like a real life master crafts person (you're welcome feminazis), SLI build on experiences overtime. Apprentices soon become the master.

    SLI
    is the perfect blueprint to build a master crafts person: you've got one part introverted sensor with impeccable sensing abilities, extroverted logic that remembers usefulness/not usefulness, a carefree attitude that solves problems as they arrive, a strategist that notices details, an irrational that moves according to rhythms individually defined, a positivist that creates from neutral spaces rather then detracts from them, an asker that makes them seemingly fluid conversationalists as well as garners of useful facts. Useful personal skills as a trades person, shame they are so goddamn introverted. As an obstinate individual who freely manipulates his resources without psychological baggage, a person who will builds on resources he/she doesn't posses in order to accomplish his/her goals, and as objectivist types who do not emotionally separate work from non-work, they might actually be enjoying themselves whilst working on personal projects, perhaps not even seeing what they are doing as work at all? Finally, as logician of the extroverted variety they think about what is right and wrong and freely and gladly absorb information of the useful variety to themselves.

    Their environment is an extension of themselves, anything that is of value to their outer world is of value to themselves. Knowledge about their environments is freely absorbed into their psyches. Not only is this information freely absorbed, it is also freely, quietly and without fuss, manipulated to suit their needs.

    In my opinion these are a few reasons SLI are known as the craftsmen. Because their minds make them the best tools to earn that title.
    *High five*

    (After seeking for an appropriate way to express my opinion on your piece, this is what I settled on. No but really. This was really good. I definitely know this sort of person and your reasoning is clear. Do you offer a subscription? I'll pay you 5.99 a month if you do one of these every month. I'm sure by now you can see why I was thinking I should have just said High Five and left it at that.)

  20. #20
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
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    o/\o high five right back at you!
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

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    Olly From Wally World's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I appreciate well made things. I even seek them out. I tried knitting and crocheting in my teens but I totally sucked at it and my instructor let me know how bad I sucked at it. I hope the appreciation of fine craftsmanship will not change my type.
    Of course it does, you must now be IEE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olly From Wally World View Post
    Of course it does, you must now be IEE.
    Socionics is the ultimate mind fuck.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olly From Wally World View Post
    Of course it does, you must now be IEE.
    Is, "can't knit to save her life" and "likes silky soft sheets and well made clothes" in the type description?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmers View Post
    Socionics is the ultimate mind fuck.
    They don't call it "jell" for nothing.


    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Is, "can't knit to save her life" and "likes silky soft sheets and well made clothes" in the type description?



    They don't call it "jell" for nothing.

    It's like duality without all that friction.

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    Olly From Wally World's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Is, "can't knit to save her life" and "likes silky soft sheets and well made clothes" in the type description?



    They don't call it "jell" for nothing.

    Maybe although that may have been in the EII description because @Director Abbie is the knit-wit here. Will EIIs still dualize with a non-knitting LSE? :'(

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olly From Wally World View Post
    Maybe although that may have been in the EII description because @Director Abbie is the knit-wit here. Will EIIs still dualize with a non-knitting LSE? :'(
    You may want to ask your recently claimed dual the same question.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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