The Dawn Of The Dead (Extended Questionnaire v3.0, for fun)

[DEAD]

Since I'm bored and am probably becoming ill with the flu (I have the symptoms and have treated them accordingly) and kinda hopped out and dehydrated at the moment, and have nothing else to do, let's play a game. You answer me according to the kinda stuff I answer/note about myself. Pretty straightfoward, really.

I am doing this mainly for fun. I want to read and challenge/reply to your responses. Here we go:

DEAD's (actual) Extended Questionnaire v3.0

What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?

I do myself. Kidding, but that was tempting as hell to put there. I know that the "do" for a living means a "job" but it should be made more clear for Non-English speakers. But jokes aside, I do nothing career wise, at the moment. Am unemployed, atm. I plan to volunteer somewhere, though, once a week.


What else do you do on a daily basis? What are your interests and hobbies? Why do you do them?

I like to write stories, create music, fix up computers/macs and when the weather is good, exercise outdoors.

I write stories because I am a creative person, and I see it as an outlet for my frustrations in everyday life. I make music because my brain is naturally wired towards that, as a musician (I have a Music degree). I used to study it a few years back. I fix up pcs/macs because it's a challenge, and something fun to do. It's a useful skill to learn, if they break down and saves a lot of money.

I obviously exercise to keep my circulation flowing, and my mood good. For all the health benefits, and it gets me out of the house.

I used to go to the gym, but am trying to get back into going. The gym I used to go to was five miles away and it had a lot of expensive equipment, but the membership was worth the money. I also got some advice/tips from the personal trainers there, for free, which was also a bonus.


What are your values, and why?

I don't know. I always usually bullshit this part, if I'm being honest. But if I had to guess (not sure), they'd be something along the lines of just make sense, and don't bullshit me. I want people to be clear and make sense so I can move on with things, and I want them to be honest for the same reason. Don't like beating around the bush at all. Get to the point.

I'm generally not good at keepign subjective values and morals in check. I don't care about them much cause I have a short term memory and they get in the way of making things work, usually. Having some dignity and integrity and standing up for yourself is one thing (they don't count as values to me, just general things that people tend to have for survival), but when it interferes in things negatively and stubbonrly, it ain't good to have.

You need to be independent of your mind's values, and just do the things that make sense sometimes. Be that hypocrite, or just don't say that you have any to be a hypocrite with in the first place. Values can be ammos too, in the wrong circumstances and fuel more fires that it's worth.

Describe your relationships with family and friends. What do you like and dislike about them?

With my family: generally, aight. We talk sometimes, and it's cool. Nothing outta the ordinary.

But sometimes I get told off by them for being "rude" (Gamma LIE Dad) when I'm just speaking my mind, and he's like:



and I'm like "obviously not, cause why else would I be asking in the first place?"

I dislike how overbearing my Dad is with his "morals" and his need to have an opinion that most people don't give a crap about on everything. And how my Mom is a bit of a rabblerouser for no reason and scatterbrained at times (she is ESE, for reference).

My parents can be kind and relax at times, which is nice. My Dad tries to give good advice at times, which is good to have.

I don't talk to many of my friends much, now that we have grown up and moved on. When we do meet up, it's good. Lots of laughing and jokes. Conversation. But I don't really make many friends, or care about it in general. It's pretty tiring, trying to keep up with everyone at times.


What do you look for in friends? In romantic relationships?

No idea, don't look for them much if I am being honest. If it slaps me in the face and it happens, then they like me. I don't care fr romantic relationships because I don't want the commitment or to be bogged down by the other person.


What conflicts have you encountered recently with other people? Why did they happen? Which kinds seem to happen on a regular basis?

Just mostly my family disagreements. Mostly just disagreement on our opinions, and it happens because people are conflicted by nature and think that their opinions are more important because of a false sense of hierarchy they have created that doesn't translate into reality. There is a sort of "power struggle" in the house, but when that doesn't go on, everything is chill. I like being left alone. I like doing any own thing.


What are your strengths? What do people like about you? What do you like about yourself?

I am good at solving problems, and fixing things. I am reliable when I put my mind to it. I can cheer people up under the right circumstances (in groups, loosened up). I dunno, I don't really think about what I like about myself, or dislike about myself. I don't see that an important thing to do


What are your weaknesses? What criticism do you often face from others? What do you dislike about yourself?

I can be confrontational, anti-social and say 'the wrong' things in social situations. Can be harsh and brash at times, not think about what I say.


In what areas of life can you manage well on your own? In what areas of your life would you like help?

Most of it, just doing what I want now. I am very content without much interference, but I guess I could do with planning/timing help at times. I blame that on my ADHD brain.


What things do you dislike doing? What things do you enjoy more than others?

The usual things; chores, looking after people, and getting up early. My body isn't programmed to get up early, looking after people is too much effort, especially in terms of bonding and chores are boring. I get easily distracted when I do that.


What goals, aspirations, or plans do you have for the future, and why?

I dunno, to not die? And to either write a screenplay, a novel or make a music album. I want to do that because I want to unleash my 'story planning' thoughts into a piece of creative art. It's better to have it be something useful than a bunch of thoughts mulling around forever.


What kinds of things do you do to manage and/or beautify your environment (your room, your house, etc.)?

I tidy it. I make sure everything serves a purpose, and isn't taking up space for the sake of it. I don't care much for decorations at all. I am quite minimalist, and I want less clutter in my environment. I might occasionally use a diffuser in the summer, but that's it.


If you won the lottery and didn't have to work anymore, what would you do?

How much are we talking about here? More than a million? Two? I'd divide that money up over 40 years, and keep to the budget and not overspend, and keep on the low. And invest it into things that were proven to work. Not a lot of things, though. And I would also have some money saved up, just incase. I think that's sensible. I don't wanna be an idiot who blows it on everything. They always end up regretting it.


What traits do you find endearing that others might dislike? What traits are considered positive/neutral by others but tend to annoy you?

People who are self-sufficient, and loners. And they don't annoy other people--okay that's pretty impossible--I like honest people who speak their mind, and they don't beat behind the bush.

I don't like overly nice, tame people, who have no opinions of themselves. I don't like the artificial "deltard" SJW veneer over things. I don't like the non-offensive way of things. If people were honest, things would be a lot better. Hiding ain't gonna do anything. Constant affirmation doesn't fix the problems.


How do you behave around strangers?

I don't xD Kidding. Just myself. Aloof. Usually ignore most people. Occasionally say hi if someone else does. I don't care about strangers, they don't care about me.


How do you react to conflict? What do you do if somebody insults or attacks you?

If people actually attack and insult me, I will stand up for myself. I will defend myself, and sort things out. If it's a stupid passing comment, I don't care. Waste of time caring about it, if you're never gonna see them again. You gotta judge the situation properly, you know?


Would you ever be interested in starting a business? Why or why not? What role would you play in it? What kind of business would it be?

If it happened, I would want an independent production company (publishing, music or screenplay). I would be the owner, and I would be able to be in control of everything. I could let my vision be original, without interferance. It would be a small company, so I could manage it.


How do you dress or manage your appearance?

I just wear whatever clothes are comfortable. Practical. Don't care about looking flashy, if my pants are too tight. I wear hoodies, jeans and jackets in the winter, and t-shirts, jeans and sweaters in spring/autumn, usually t-shirts, shorts in summer. And when I need to go out, I usually wear a shirt, and dress shoes and jeans/something more fancy. I just wear what I need to wear, and cut my hair and wash whenever I need to, as I go along life.


Do you like kids? Why or why not?

After an hour, no. Too much responsibility looking after them, too noisy. Too energetic. Kids are okay in very small doses. They can be entertaining, but I would never have any of my own.


In what situations or times in your life did you feel most fulfilled, and why?

I felt fulfilled when I ... I dunno to be honest. I have never had one of those before.


How do you feel about attention? Do you seek it out?

If it happens, it happens. If not, I don't care.


How do you approach responsibility? What do you tend to expect of others?

I approach it with the end aim in mind, and I expect that we both hold up our ends, and do our jobs properly. We have to do that in order to make things successful. If someone doesn't hold up their end, I will let them know about it.


If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what approach would you take, and why?

I don't want kids, I am childfree. I am not gonna answer that question, it's hypothetical and never gonna happen.

Your friend bursts into tears. What do you do? How does it make you feel?
None of my friends ever cry, around me anyway. I dunno what I'd do. But I guess you want me to be hypothetical and test my empathy again. Since this is a situation that might actually happen, I will engage. I would remain calm, ask them what was up and try and practically solve their problem, somehow. I'm not good at comforting people, to be honest.

What is your biggest accomplishment?
The time that I won an Easter Hamper, aged eight. Kidding, when I graduated my Music course. I had achieved something.

What was (or is) your high school experience like?

Honestly? It was boring. I didn't go a lot. I just got on with things when I went. Hung around with some people. Got through it, and I didn't really care about it much. The aim was to just get the grades you needed to move on.

Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
Yeah, back in 2014/2015, I was in a major rut. I had to clear my mind, and think about what the problem was, and solve it because I was under a lot of stress at the time. I was bedridden for about a month or two, and sleeping a lot. I had hallucinations, and an upset stomach caused by extreme stress. I fought through the problem and got back on track.


What is something you regret?
Not sure. I don't really dwell on the past or have many regrets.


Who do you admire, and why?
I don't admire anyone, and I don't want anyone to admire me. People are dissappointing when you look up to them.

What's been on your mind? Has anything been worrying or concerning you? What problems have you encountered lately?

Nothing of note, to be honest. Things have been running well, as of now.

What are your spiritual or religious beliefs and why do you hold them?
I think that a God makes sense in the natural heirarchy of things, and that a higher maker exists. But then you have the question, where did God come from. And if God doesn't exist, how was the universe set into motion? It's a never ending cycle. There are a lot of questions, and you just have to look for the proof, rationalize things yourself and see what makes sense.

What are your political beliefs, and why? How much do you care about politics?

I don't care about politics much because they are both two sides of the same coin. Controlled opposition. It doesn't matter what you believe, or who you vote for, but nothing gets done. It is fun to debate, occasionally, though and break down the arguments from both sides, but I don't care about having political beliefs.

What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job?

Solo, alone. Less noise, a place to concentrate. Independent, self sufficiency. Doing your own thing.

What is or was your favorite school subject and why?
French because I enjoyed learing about languages, and ICT because I enjoyed learning about how to work computer hardware, and optimise it.

What is one common misconception that people have about life? Explain why it is wrong.

I don't know.

Where did you go on your most recent vacation? What did you do there? How did you like it and why?
Northern Spain, Catalonia.

It was very pleasant (the temperatures were around 26-31c which is about 86-91F), and our hotel was situated near a beach. It had easy access to other towns therough the nearby, which I explored, as well as Barcelona and the Nou Camp stadium. We also went to Reus to see the Gaudi museum, and shopping in the four storie mall in Tarragona.
I liked it because we actually did things, and didn't spend time laying on the beach all day. Which is pointless to me. You go to explore, and see things on vacation.

Talk about a significant event from your life.
When I was five, I dove into the middle of a pool and almost drowned. My Dad dove in and rescued me. I haven't done that since. I realised that the pool has depth perception. And that there were three feet, and twelve feet depths that go up as you swim in depth, and I went in at the six feet end, and not the three feet one.


How do you see other people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.

People are people, sheeple, led by propaganda and ideologies from the higher ups. People believe them because of mass hysteria. They don't question things and the agenda spreads. It causes division, and when people are divided, then can be conquered easily (divide and rule). The whole concept of the "internet social media phenonmenon" is a problem, when everyone is hooked on the main social media networks (TikTok, Reddit, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter etc.)and their algorhythms feeding people dopamine, and these ideologies. Apparently, the top tech people don't let their kids on social media. But again, they can afford to organize their lives to the point where they don't need to be on social media.
What do you do if you're not getting what you want? What approach do you use?

Keep trying, and trying, and eventually it works. I use good, convincing reasoning, and persuasion tactics. It's all about using your willpower to sway the situation to yur advantage, in such a way that it doesn't backfire.

Are you comfortable taking leadership roles? In what areas? Why or why not?
If I wanna take them, yeah. If it's about managing a project and not people, yeah sure. People managing is difficult, but possible in groups, BUT managing their needs is very difficult for me. Someone else can do that, not my realm. Anything else, I would have no issue doing it. I like getting things done and sorting them out, and fixing them. And being in control of the situation.

How often do you get angry? What kinds of things make you angry?
Less than before, but still regularly. People being inconsistent, people bullshitting and wasting time. People being overly illogical, loud and annoying for no reason. People panicking for no reason. Incompetence, too.

What is one unusual trait or ability you possess? What makes you special?

Is this a beauty pageant interview or something? I don't know. I don't think about that.

What is your sense of humor like? Do you joke around a lot?

Yeah, I joke around a lot [when I'm in the mood]. If you don't laugh your way through life, you'll cry.


What were you like as a child? How have you changed since then?

I was smaller. Nah, okay for real. I was more introverted, studious and a lot more into academic things. I am less introverted, but still like my own company, I am less studious, more assertive and into more technological based topics, as of late.

What is the best thing that happened to you during the past week?
Two things: I got the house to myself on Sunday and Monday. It was very relaxing, and solitary. Freeing. And I went out and got a free meal from my grandparents at a Chinese buffet on Thursday. We went on a drive, and it was very nice. The food was good, and so was the coffee/sea air.

What is the worst thing that happened to you during the past week?

Starting to become sick? I think that I am getting the flu, like I said, and also have developed a sort of adverse reaction to the oregano oil antibiotic that I am taking. I also have a sore gut. But if it stops the flu from progressing, I will accept that.

What is the purpose of life? What do you find personally meaningful in life?
To live it? To interact with the world, do things, explore and no one makes it out alive anyway. I find that going on long walks, and talking to God at times is meaningful, but we also have to create our own meaning in life. Life has no meaning, if you don't go and search for it. Find your calling, whatever too.

What is the most interesting place you have been, and why?

Good question. Probably down a rollercoaster in Disneyland Paris, it felt like being born when it went down the dark tunnel. I was upside down and everything. It was so weird. But interesting. Then, it went up high, and down low. It was crazy. Most unique and exhilarating experience of my life. Enjoyed it a lot. It was one of those Space Mountain coasters, or something.

-----

Man, this was long. I lost interest a couple of times doing it, but here we go. I managed to answer the questions as best as I can. This is my first time doing the full version of this particular questionnaire and wanted to give it a shot.

[nifl]

video

[DEAD]

video

I will post a video when you post one of yourself, wearing a bikini and confirm that it's you. Lead by example and show us VI working by posting a video. As far as I am concerned, you're just looking to collect a databaseof videos without our consent.

[DEAD]

I'm suprized that no one has any opinions, or wants to actually refine their typing skills.

[nifl]

I'm suprized that no one has any opinions, or wants to actually refine their typing skills.

needs better material

[DEAD]

needs better material

Are you just salty cause people agreed with me in the other thread and you ran out of alts to defend yourself with?

[DEAD]

Anyone with actual, real information?

[nifl]

Anyone with actual, real information?

F seems more likely

[Expansion]

There is not enough representatives of type to hook into you DEAD, here active at 16T.

It's a dead forum when comparing it to the yesteryear of time, where there was enough info. given by members when you could at least take 2 types away from it.

Sometimes it is awful when i look at some typings where the thread starter is given SF in sure true colors, but given time you and everyone else is light years away from it in hindsight. The bullseye was a mirage.

Some here might be waiting for a catalyst to chime in too, so don't feel bad if it looks cold.

It looks cold.

I've given you my feelings on it in other places, and with that stripe, others (EII, etc) have given their feelings on it too. You know what type i'm referencing.

[DEAD]

F seems more likely

Sol (I know this is your alt account or one of your cronies), you probably didn't even read the thread properly, and you have also admitted to not knowing English well in the past. Visual Identifying someone from a video isn't going to tell you or anyone how people process information. That is a seperate theory called Vultology. Even in Socionics, it's nowhere near the whole theory. It's just a collection of snapshots that are collected over time of Slavic people that look similar based off their systematic typings. It's trying to find a correlation, and it fails based on that alone.

Someone who's high doesn't have "Ni eyes", they're just stoned. Being stoned doesn't make someone Ni ego just because their eyes are glazed/zoned out.

If people just watch videos, and don't pick up on anything else, they aren't even taking in the information to type someone properly if they just observe their body. You have no clue how/why someone does something without knowing the answers to the questions, and how they process the functions. I don't care who it is, but magically observing someone yields no results without figuring out how that face processes information, through the answers.

There is not enough representatives of type to hook into you DEAD, here active at 16T.

It's a dead forum when comparing it to the yesteryear of time, where there was enough info. given by members when you could at least take 2 types away from it.

Sometimes it is awful when i look at some typings where the thread starter is given SF in sure true colors, but given time you and everyone else is light years away from it in hindsight. The bullseye was a mirage.

Some here might be waiting for a catalyst to chime in too, so don't feel bad if it looks cold.

It looks cold.

I've given you my feelings on it in other places, and with that stripe, others (EII, etc) have given their feelings on it too. You know what type i'm referencing.

Yeah, this forum used to be a lot more active before Discord, and even Discord is dying off now. People generally come and go soon because they don't stick around and learn the theory because they're too busy with their lives, or don't understand/get it.

Yeah, but what has true colors got to do with anything, in general? A personality type, at the end of the day in Socionics is just an indicator of information metabollism. It's not the end all and be all, or something that is your actual "personality" or "identity". It's just a label that describes how you process information within the system.

I also don't get how or why people make their type their identity at all, and latch onto it and try play out the stereotypes for it. It defeats the purpose of the system, and typing people. The only reason there are stereotypes is cause people take the hypothetical descriptions/profiles as gospel, without even thinking about them. And most of them aren't properly translated, and lose their essence in English. They're archaic.

It's all a guide at the end of the day, on how people process information. Feelings aren't facts, and opinions can sometimes be useful but they aren't the end all and be all. I want some opinions, and something to argue/discuss. I made this thread so that we could discuss things and argue them, tbh.

[khaki]

Since you referred to your daddy four times with a capital D which indicates being someone subconsciously seeking the kinky Se experience, I'd say you're an IEI. The bizarre way you're trying to merge with your master in your imagination by emulating a dom larp in your writing is just further evidence. Sorry, just kidding. Based on how you answered most of these questions, you seem ST and you're probably not Delta, lol. The issue here is that many types in the proper mood could answer in this fashion. Forming an image of the type of person you may be by going through your past posts on your profile would be superior to relying on this questionnaire but doing that from scratch is a bit too much effort.

[DEAD]

Since you referred to your daddy four times with a capital D which indicates being someone subconsciously seeking the kinky Se experience, I'd say you're an IEI. The bizarre way you're trying to merge with your master in your imagination by emulating a dom larp in your writing is just further evidence. Sorry, just kidding. Based on how you answered most of these questions, you seem ST and you're probably not Delta, lol. The issue here is that many types in the proper mood could answer in this fashion. Forming an image of the type of person you may be by going through your past posts on your profile would be superior to relying on this questionnaire but doing that from scratch is a bit too much effort.

Lol, I know you're kidding. Ironically, some people actually aren't kidding about things like that.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But again, the questions are also biased toward the thought processes of whoever made it (I think hotelambush is an LII, right?). Making questionnaires is hard because you have your own bias and understanding of how the functions work, but also have to make it universal enough that it covers all areas of the IME in such a way that seems equal. As for the mood, it depends. Each questionnaire is going to be slightly different, and it can be hard to consistently answer them, regardless of type because they aren't all created equally.

And going back through my past posts might be difficult cause I was a bit of a troll, and my brain hadn't developed back in 2014, when I was eighteen. I also took a long break because I was busy with life, and another break because I wasn't in the proper frame of mind, due to stress. Now, I am much better because I have rested and recalibrated my mind. Yes, there are patterns and people can be more consistent than others, but posts on a forum aren't always the best way to do that. And it is a lot of effort to sift out and find the certain patterns/consistencies when someone has more than 250 posts.

Could you figure out someone's evolution over time? Sure, but that would take too much effort, realistically. People are busy, and want to do things with their lives outside of Socionics that are more important to do, and they lose interest. It's a normal thing to happen.

[Expansion]

There is not enough representatives of type to hook into you DEAD, here active at 16T.

It's a dead forum when comparing it to the yesteryear of time, where there was enough info. given by members when you could at least take 2 types away from it.

Sometimes it is awful when i look at some typings where the thread starter is given SF in sure true colors, but given time you and everyone else is light years away from it in hindsight. The bullseye was a mirage.

Some here might be waiting for a catalyst to chime in too, so don't feel bad if it looks cold.

It looks cold.

I've given you my feelings on it in other places, and with that stripe, others (EII, etc) have given their feelings on it too. You know what type i'm referencing.

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1345494

[ChaosConductor6669]

[DEAD]

https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/58768-What-do-ethical-functions-feel-like?p=1345494&viewfull=1#post1345494

(Yep that gif is me right now after formatting and writing this respone and cause it's like 6am. The link was there originally, and it's staying there)

Okay, so this is what you posted me (the exact definition/link):

Strati's SEE Fi

Despite having relatively strong ethical orientation, despite the fact that "ethics of relations" is SEE's strong creative function, it cannot be said so that SEE's ethical relations develop easily and smoothly.

To SEE generally nothing comes easily, because he always and everywhere has to conquer. SEE's problem is that he frequently conquers that which no one else has claimed or disputed. Moreover, he has a habit of conquering that which already rightfully belongs to him.

I was reading this document and it seems like it lines up somewhat with the theory of charges within the SCS Charge System (yes, I am aware that it’s a very theoretical concept, but interesting nonetheless). It’s useful to this conversation so what, so that’s why I am using it in this context. According to the theory (inspired by Gulenko, Model A and Yin-Yang Symbolism) there are eight Evolutionary Types, and eight Involutionary types. They have different static and Dynamic charges with a + or - value.


SEE is one of the Evolutionary types and it has “Se+” and “Fi+”.





Se+ seems like the part of conquering, expanding. To bring something towards the center of attention, make it visible. SEE seems like it’s an expansive type, and that would be useful for conquering things. Bringing them too light. Making them visible. The hunter and the prey.









Especially the Fi + “to bring others into one’s territory" (yeah that's huge 'cause this dumb website won't let me attach more than two images per post..)

The whole SEE conquering theme reminds me of this song:



“I want to make you my woman, so I can wrap you in my flow full of pleasure
and I'm going to tear you away so that you are mine nothing more
and I'm not going to leave you until I can conquer every territory of your skin
now I'm going to wrap you up, you're going to be mine again and you won't be able to escape”

(Yes, the whole theme of the music video as well ties in with the lyrics).

And this song is the reverse of the conquering theme, SEE heartbreak:



Translation: https://www.allthelyrics.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=33821

Anyway, let’s move on to the second part of the description:

It seems: what prevents the SEE from simply and naturally receiving his natural attractiveness, charm, ease and freedom in making contact? But in this lies the problem - a constant and general acknowledgement of these qualities is needed to the SEE. Additionally, he needs proof that his superiority has been acknowledged, proof of his unquestionable influence. It is precisely in pursuit of these proofs that the SEE tends to lose all of his "majestic" qualities. Sometimes an impression arises that he is asking for compliments, either by force or by inappropriately "pulling" attention to himself, becoming too engrossed in self-love.

[…]

In short it looks like adapting to wishes of a target when it is creative.

^ Basically like this.

1. That “needs assurance” definitely sounds like low Ni, which obviously makes sense since they are Se base (and Se-Ni dualise together).
2. Forcefully looking for compliments sounds like an Se-Fe Demo-Fo creative feedback loop. I never actually forcefully ask for compliments, or inappropriately draw attention to myself (or peacock at all) in that way. I usually sit alone, and don’t talk to people much or put on an extravagant show, until I am comfortable. I’m actually quite stoic, IRL, until I warm up to groups, but I can give a recent, bad example of that feedback loop going south is Jojo Siwa’s latest publicity stunt and the backlash that came with that. A more positive one would be, say, a cocky man flirting in the bar, and getting a woman’s attention and getting the intended result with her (e.g. bonking in the bathroom).
3. I notice another contradiction to me being SEE, that “adapting to the wishes of a target” to lure them in to be conquered. I never really do that, or know what people want/need emotionally from that perspective. I get that the descriptions are/can be overblown, but I’m not good at remembering special, sentimental occasions. I barely even remember my own birthday, and am not good at buying gifts. I just tend to give people money, if I even do that, so they can buy whatever the hell they want.

I also looked at some of the examples in the thread and the post that you sent me to specifically.

Furthermore, in the thread, according to user Raver (IEE), this is what they said about Fe and Fi:

Fi is about your personal ethics that have almost nothing to do with the outside world, but your own deep rooted unique morals developed from within that you will valiantly and stubbornly defend because of moral reasons rather than logical reasons.

Fe is about understanding the emotional minefield and unwritten rules social environments have and learning how to navigate around them successfully. It is also about understanding the general mood and beliefs that specific social environments consist of.

So in my case I try to use my demonstrative 4D Fe to express my creative 3D Fi ideas that may possibly conflict with other people's Fe and/or Fi values due to being developed internally rather than externally IMO.

Yes, this sounds like a good example of xEE (I know that Raver is talking about things here from the Ne perspective), but the general principle is the same of how 3D Fi and 4D Fe works in conjunction with one another. In the case of an SEE, following this example, they would “use” their 4D Fe to express their relational desires/values onto the environment. I guess this is why they’d probably make good “pick-up coaches” , “relationship expert” or “bartenders” or a job that requires something social.

Ashlesia (ESI) said:

Fi: A relatable example is when you look at a painting and develop a feeling either in favor of it or against it. You could do it immediately, viscerally and primitively. Or you could take into account how much work went into it or how creative it is and stuff like that, which might take time and research. But in the end, do you like it or hate it? Having it as a base function is like having that emotionally based discernment with respect to everything (and everyone! that's what gets the focus, even if it could be towards ideas, which is kinda important.) And being constantly aware of that and tending to act based upon it.

From ooo (fi-valuer afaik):

Fi: filtering the world through your inner feelings, supported by one's personal previous experiences in case of Se (ESI) or by one's ideas of possibilities in case of Ne (EII). reason why ESI are called traditionalists and EII humanitarians. goal of Fi is infusing the objective world of Te with passion.

From RebelOnDeck (aka I/O):

Ethical is an unfortunate labelling of observations of relative rationalization so shouldn't "feel" like anything; all types feel and can behave ethically. Relative rationalization compares A with B to determine the higher value, which implies needing a value system that has been developed through upbringing, education and experience. Values can change which means that outcomes from this type of rationalization also change. Making decisions based on relative values is very subjective - different from T-rationalization which deals in absolutes, meaning A plus B equals C; for T-types to get a different answer, direct input has to change because rationalization is absolute - but absolute doesn't imply that outcomes are any more correct......

I know that is Fi base, but I would reckon that an SEE would still have a strong sense of “likes” and “dislikes”; a good understanding of self, and the emotions that drive them, and filtering the world through their experiences (Se first) and inner feelings (second). I prefer to have a logical sense of the world, and of things making sense, rather than trust my inner feelings. I’ve always been a bit of a skeptic (when it comes to bullshit), and try to call it out. Nothing “wrong” with using feelings to help you make decisions and make sense of things, but I couldn’t do that. I need the data, and I need to form my own opinions from it (which I am sure that high Fi types do as well), but the opinions need to make sense rationally/have the data back it up.

I know that the feelings aren’t “gut feelings” or careless, but the concept of someone seeing the world through relations, and values and using them to judge things primarily Is hard for me to wrap my head around. Obviously ethical types can be rational, but being rational through values and data and opinions is not how I work.


This is how Aushra defined Fi, in translated terms:

Description of Fi from "Dual Nature of Man" by A. Augusta
White (introverted) ethics

This is the subjective relationship between two carriers of potential or kinetic energy that shows the level of attraction (or repulsion) between one object or subject and another object or subject. Thanks to this IM element a person feels which objects attract him and which repel him. You might say that this perceptual element conveys information about objects' need or lack of need of each other and about the presence or absence of mutual or one-way needs.

Such an individual perceives information about this facet of objective reality the individual perceives as a need for certain objects that satisfy physical wishes/desires, psychological or spiritual desires, and a need for other people — in other words, a person's wishes/desires and interests that are directed toward animate and inanimate objects. This includes feelings of like and dislike, love and hatred, the desire to obtain some thing/object, etc., and greed or the absense of greed. The higher feelings of this kind can be called ethical, because relationships between people's needs are mainly regulated by ethical normals.

When this perceptual element is in the leading position, the individual possesses the innate ability to perceive and evaluate wishes/desires — both his own and others'. He always knows who wants what from whom. He is able to set his awareness of subjective reality and his wishes in opposition to those of others. He has the ability to mould and perfect both his own and others' wishes. He possesses both the ability to provide himself with necessary relationships with others and confidence in his capacity to influence other people. His correct perception of human needs allows him to avoid risky collisions when satisfying his own needs. This engenders the ability to manipulate people's attachments, and the ability and desire to influence people's ethical feelings and bring these feelings closer to societal ideals.

Basically like this song:



And according to the theory, this is how it is applied within “Fi creatives”:

Dimitry Golihov says:

Fi as creative function in SEE (ESFp; Napoleon) and IEE (ENFp; Huxley)
He is frequently conveying to others his attitude towards them. Uses his own attitude towards someone to manipulate them.

Aims to give his evaluation to everything that surrounds him, judges what is 'good' and what is 'bad'. Sometimes he can change his sympathies and antipathies several times a day, very amorous and inconstant in this respect. Looks for a place where others would be interested in his views on any issue. Thus he may find his vocation as artistic director, since in this sphere his judgement is often accepted and valued. As a manager or leader his approach remains the same, however, acceptance of his judgement here will be lower.

He himself refers to his evaluations as "work in progress", something mundane, commonplace to him: first he praises someone, then scolds them, then praises them again. Not being in a position to do this, it looks inadequate, so often this serves as incentive for him to achieve such a position, and thus quietly "sell" his products for which there is small demand in society. Usually none at all, because those who are critical of everyone often no one likes.

He is frequently perceived as someone who has arrived with "his own charter in a foreign land". He immediately begins to look and evaluate everything: "this is good, but that is poor" "I like this, but not that". He is interested in conflict situations, and can even provoke them since then he will have a job: to assess. These people often win the sympathies of others by participating in their problems: they are aware and interested in them, they can adjust to another person to better get in touch. Therefore, they often make for good politicians. Their advantage is the ability to play on requests of the voters, to know what they want. Their relations are rarely reliable - "today I like you, tomorrow you're not in favor, and day after I like you again".

Even their hate can easily one day turn into love. For them feelings is alike an interesting game. They know price to everything, so can make for good evaluators and tasters. Seldom they leave a member of opposite sex without their assessment. Their assessments can sometimes sound like moralizing, but there is no consistency to their judgements. Sometimes the situation requires that they adapt their valuation to "opinions of others." In such cases they may put it into more acceptable formulation, for example "it is said that ...". If you try to specify who is saying that, it turns out that he has merely used the phrase about public opinion to cunningly hide his own opinion.

Creative function

The creative function is also called the function of implementation, implementing, realizing, or second function. This function describes the primary mode of application of the base function. If the base function forms the core of the individual's personal quests and interests ("What's in it for me?", "What do I want to be?"), the creative function describes his main instrument for interacting with the rest of society ("How do I make contact with other people?"). For extroverts this means creating a context for people to interact within, and for introverts — creating a product worthy of being included in interaction.

People use their creative function less than their base function and attach less personal significance to it, although due to the nature of blocked functions it is usually used in tandem with the base function. In their value system, their creative function activities seem less personally significant than their base function activities.

When other people try to make this function the main criterion for everything, light irritation can arise, and the person may try to "correct" the other person's emphasis by presenting a perspective from his base function and suggesting that this is more important. Also, when other people express problems having to do with this information aspect, the person quickly takes interest and tries to present solutions — but always through his own base function.

For instance, an SEE will try to help other people solve their Fi related problems (relationships and understanding between people) through a Se perspective (making sure you know what you want and are trying to achieve it; understanding the territorial aspect of interaction; recognizing the obvious "dumb things" that people are doing that are ruining the relationship). When people get to use their creative function to help others' problems, they feel needed and fulfilled and begin to live more fully. Likewise, criticism in this area is more sensitive and unpleasant than in the base function.

Use of the creative function — while frequent and effortless — seems to turn on and off. One moment the person may seem highly interested in this aspect, and the next — totally indifferent. This may jar people for whom this aspect of reality is of more supreme importance and who expect more consistent attention and effort in this area. A good example of this is one's interaction with their mirror partner; each person's leading function is subject to the other's creativity function, so even though both partners do share similar worldviews, they are apt to 'correct' or add on to the other's rigid and finalized points.

The creative is like a deck of cards. It’s used easily in conjunction with your base function. I understand the function of Fi and how it manifests and can give examples of it manifesting, but I don’t see a lot of that usage in my own psyche. I’m not good at all at knowing the dynamics of relationships or analysing those. I’m not good at giving my thorough opinion on other people, and analysing their characters and saying what I like/dislike about them. I don’t tend to get close to them at all. It’s something that’s either unvalued, or something that’s hidden under the micropenis of the psyche, and is 2D/1D, and doesn’t come out at all.

It’s a very rusty function for me to use.

Contrast that to Fi PoLR:

Fi as Vulnerable Function (SLE, ILE)The individual does not normally pay attention to the nuances of interpersonal relationships; he is either overly suspicious or overly assuming of his relations with others when they are not clearly defined. More importance is given to these relations as they pertain to objective mutual benefit; entertaining one another and accomplishing mutual goals are seen as the main focus, rather than seeing the relationships as rewarding in and of themselves.

The individual does not expect others to be actively aware or concerned with his own personal sentiments, and so sees little reason to be concerned with those of others, unless they have direct consequences for the individual. Statements by other persons reflecting their inner feelings are not fully registered by the individual if not accompanied by external emotional expression or actions.

Suggestions that the individual may have acted unethically in the eyes of another person who has not clearly expressed disapproval are met with bafflement by the individual; those that are expressed without tact are either dismissed or reacted to aggressively.

Expressions of deep personal sentiments are awkward for the individual, whether coming from another or himself. He does not see it as his "right" to place the burden of his true emotions on another, both because he knows how uncomfortable those of others make him (even when they are positive and genuine), and because of his own awkwardness in expressing them.

I also scanned the Fi/Te PoLR threads you sent me and here are some quotes from both of them:

Mu4 (ILE) said:

Mmm for me Fi polr manifest in that I only have 2 modes of trust, one complete, the other broken. I also have abandonment issues which make it very easy for me to lose trust. I also blurt out whatever's on my mind to people I care about, it can be shocking, hurtful but it's also true. This is probably the easiest way for me to polr hit myself, these days I almost immediately regret it. I need someone who forgives me for it.

Probably the biggest thing for me is kindness and forgiveness, someone silently holding a grudge or silently wanting to hurt me is intolerable. I think Fi polr's are very fragile in relationship areas and basically need someone with patience/kindness/tolerance. AKA XEI's.

Yes, I keep people at a distance because I distrust their relations, and because I have no interest in forming them further. It kinda breaks down because I have no idea of the status of things because I can’t figure it out. So no trust.

And yeah, I blurt a lotta shit out without thinking about the consequences socially/ethically. I get told a fair amount of times that the things I say are “inappropriate”. Once when I was a kid and I went to my parents’ friend’s house, she was showing us her cards, and I said “my mom is going to rip them up” and she started crying, and I had to apologise and explain that I was only joking (yeah, I was a dickhead kid, I know, I was like nine at the time).

Yeah, I can’t be bothered with the whole grudge thing either.

RedMarquee (ILE) brought up an interesting point:

The biggest hurdle with Fi types is they have these weird expectations of things I need to do to let them know I care, or I should know how I'm treating them and why they're pissed.

Without fail, these things are always things that slip my mind always. Unless I'm told, I just continue holding what I think the relationship is unless I get polrpwnd

3 relationship states random friend, devotion and burned bridge. If someone comes to me and sincerly requests something, as long as I haven't tried to cut ties I'll try to do it. Again vocal requests lol. But I'm super kind and mountain moving if you ask.

Domr wrote:

Fi-1 is being unable to model people's character. Result is trusting the wrong people and overly dependent on Fe-2 to react to people.

Silverchris9 (IEI) (I trimmed down the fat in this quote):

[…]
Fi-polr is basically a distrust of unchanging relationships that can't be explicitly defined. Fi-polr is desperately confused by the notion that I could do something that will forever change your opinion of me, but I don't know what it is. You can't tell me explicitly what the rules are for how I can make my relationship with you work. I can do something that seems perfectly normal, something that was okay yesterday, and all of a sudden today it makes you feel some type of way. And Fi-polr is just like... huh? what? I do not understand.

[…]

Fi-polr generally just breaks down to needing some kind of external, fairly obvious sign in order to understand (and therefore in order to act upon) the status of a relationship. Also, being EP types, Fi-polrs are all about rapid, instinctual movement.

Fi is felt as an irrational, pointless constraint on that movement. If you can give them a logical, external, step-by-step reason why something should or should not be done, they're all ears. But if you have a vague sort of feeling that this isn't right or doesn't jive with you or feels wrong, and you can't provide any sort of reasoning for that feeling? Bye Felicia. Fi-polr is done with you. So yes, again, as I said, Fi-polr basically = I need an external, explicit sign in order to make sense of what action I'm supposed to take. Without that sign, I'm going to be confused and mad, because I want to do something but I can't because I can't figure out what I need to do.

Yes, exactly. I need a sign to understand things. I want to know why things are how they are. Without an actual external sign, how am I meant to know what you want? The lack of any physical indication is confusing. I don’t take the initiative at defining relationships, and tend to not commit to any of them. I find it hard to get up close and “know people” and be personal with them.

I don’t know how to make moves on people to form relations well.

This is also from an ESI-SLE Supervision interaction by Vladislav, an ESI (Fi base vs Fi PoLR interaction). You can instantly see the contrast in how they function and their programming:

the SLE can say something offensive to people without having a second thought about it, and without working out the consequences. When I explained to him this moment: see, you have offended this person now, and then later you might need their help, or this person will have an opportunity to take revenge on you, to kick you behind your back, and they will do it, too, you will then have to use up your own base of resources for digging yourself out of this situation he had such an expression on his face as if I’ve uncovered some universal truth for him.

SLEs build their own structures, they control their resources and expand their sphere of control - but the consequences of interactions of people inside of this process is something they don’t account for at all. Looking at it externally, from point of view of the “supervisor” - their “painful” function looks like this.

That also makes a lot of sense. An ESI would look at interactions a lot more, and know what to do to befriend someone. Or could analyse their general character a lot more coherently than an Fi PoLR/Role would. They have the functionality to “look into a person”/ “see through a person”. As for making structures and learning things, and improving them, that comes naturally to me.

On the other hand, the ESI and the SEE also have being “mirrors” in common with each other.

Wikisocion sums it up as:

Mirror is an intertype relation of intellectual stimulation and mutual correction. The pair shares common interests, but differ slightly in thought process and methodology.
Initially, Mirrors find plenty of things to talk about. They easily understand each other’s philosophies (and usually find that they agree) on basically all issues. They are surprised to find that the other can provide a subtly different outlook and recognize valuable things they themselves would tend to overlook.

In general, they would have a lot more in common than their supervisee SLE because of the shared Se and Fi in their Ego block. They would have a similar mindset, and similarities, and have a mutual understanding, but still have different opinions. Different ways of going about things (e.g. Se base, Fi creative/Fi creative, Se base). They usually get along, but aren’t identical types. In a way, the mirror distorts them slightly, though they still seem very similar on the surface.

When I meet an ESI, we don’t seem to have that “connection” in the ego, and don’t “click” in the same way that an SEE would. Most ESI think I’m brutish and have no ethics. They can’t detect much Fi in me, it seems. They complain about that in me (based off ESIs on the forum, and Discord). I tend to find them very rigid and moralistic, and relationship obsessed and some can’t compromise their “values” very well (when I say compromise, I mean they can’t seem to be able to rationalise the situation enough to see its benefits by loosening up their values and taking a chance on it).



___________________________________________ _____ ____________________________

But yeah, anyway, I am more certain of low dimensional Fi > Fi ego for me after breaking it down and summarising things.

There is a clear and obvious difference between the two. The Se bases have the same base, but diverge in different ways; one into the logical realm (SLE), and the other into the relation realm (SEE).

I would say that I veer more toward the logical side than the relation realm in general.

[Expansion]

Confirmed Fi PoLR.

[DEAD]

Confirmed Fi PoLR.

If you hit the PoLR, then everything else will start to fall into place, right?

[Expansion]

If you hit the PoLR, then everything else will start to fall into place, right?

Like Enneagram, fears = pain, same with any painful experience, we use bulwarks to circumvent them, so if you keep on hitting your thumb with a hammer, you find you are clumsy and in typology terms you find the functional cause.

One stands up notices pain and it signals type. Better than ITR IMO.

[Expansion]

My biggest criticism IRL is being random.

My dad used to say I'm reliable and steady, and stable, character -wise. An LSI compliment.

The problem unbeknownst to me is being random is people think you can turn on a dime, and don't like that feeling about it.

[DEAD]

Like Enneagram, fears = pain, same with any painful experience, we use bulwarks to circumvent them, so if you keep on hitting your thumb with a hammer, you find you are clumsy and in typology terms you find the functional cause.

One stands up notices pain and it signals type. Better than ITR IMO.

Yep, exactly. Then, you stop hitting your thumb with a hammer and you use another method (i.e. another function, or stop using the PoLR).

The problem with the ITR, imo, is that they are slightly misinterpreted, and sometimes idealised, like the case of the "duals". It's not the person you want, it's the useage of the functions you want from them. It's not just about going "OH IT'S AN SLE" or "OH! IT'S AN ESI!" or whatever, it's aobout what they bring functionally. If the usage is mature enough, then they can help in some degree, if not, it's just gonna not work as effectively.

[Expansion]

Well, DEAD, i'm impressed.

You logic'd your way thru this and made a legal case out of it, like a notarized document, and motivated to be completely un-biased in any outcome, looking for an alignment with the facts, and after 10 years you did it, ultimately you decided to close it.

Overall typing takes a lot of time, and with the right tools.

As i've mentioned here before on forum, i landed here a year ago, thinking sensor type and thinker type for myself, but i realized i mostly focus on peoples inner states of mind, humanistic relationships in an in- depth understanding & interest, and focus a lot on empathy in that tapestry, meaning in the end, not Fe agenda at all, which was my initial presumption.

In my type thread i wanted to make it clear that that is how i view the world, and my sig. lines at the bottom are in that statement too.

Expansion

[DEAD]

Well, DEAD, i'm impressed.

You logic'd your way thru this and made a legal case out of it, like a notarized document, and motivated to be completely un-biased in any outcome, looking for an alignment with the facts, and after 10 years you did it, ultimately you decided to close it.

Overall typing takes a lot of time, and with the right tools.

As i've mentioned here before on forum, i landed here a year ago, thinking sensor type and thinker type for myself, but i realized i mostly focus on peoples inner states of mind, humanistic relationships in an in- depth understanding & interest, and focus a lot on empathy in that tapestry, meaning in the end, not Fe agenda at all, which was my initial presumption.

In my type thread i wanted to make it clear that that is how i view the world, and my sig. lines at the bottom are in that statement too.

Expansion

I cut down the types from 16 to 8, then 8 to 4, and then 4 to 2 (like a Champions League tournament) through the process of elimination.

> Cut out all the Alpha and Delta (not on the Ne-Si valuing axis).
> Cut out all the introverts (not introverted)
> Was left with Gamma/Beta Extroverts
> Not a rational lead
> Left Se base

DEAD being SLE or SEE was/is the Laurel/Yanny of 16Types Forum.

Some people think "SLE DEAD" (Laurel) and other people think "SEE DEAD" (Yanny).

I knew that I was someone who tried to take an un-biased approach to things, and wasn't very relationship orientated but people in general make "quick snap judgements" without thinking things through.

It does take some time to really think about the system, and make sense of it and put the pieces together properly, and it also takes time to dissect it properly, too. I think that putting too much emphasis on one part of the system rigidly (e.g type descriptions, ITR, etc.) is counterintuitive. Do you have to understand the theory and how the system works? Yes, but you can also see certain flaws within it once you break it down more. I am good at solving problems, breaking things down and taking action to achieve things. I am good at understanding power dynamics, hierarchies and systems, and detecting people's weakness and know when they're overcompensating stuff. I work out strategies on how to get what I need and impliment them.

I'm not a people person really at all. Like, I couldn't focus on inner states of mine, and deep, human relationships. I'm not naturally very empathetic either. It takes me a while to understand what people are going through, if I have to understand it. I will research things, and learn from experience if I have to know something. I know what your ethics are coming from a Delta bent, but in general, I am not relationshup focused. Can I entertain people? Sure, a bit. But can I commit? No. Can I get to know pretty much all people on a higher, inimate level? Not really.

I think that SLE is the best fit, I can't see LIE and I definitely can't see me as SEE after researching things further, and discussing things, but if anyone else has anything to add, go ahead.