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    Default Type this new acquaintance

    Here are some first impressions based on two or three times of interaction. I have my own thoughts, but I want to float this out there and see where your heads are at. What type does this sound like?


    Single words/terms:
    Hardworking, assertive, straightforward, logical, efficient, judgmental.

    More in-depth description:

    Works long hours and goes long periods without vacation time. He succeeds in high-pressure environments (might thrive it it, too, but can't tell yet).

    Jokes loudly and forcefully at times, more so than I'm comfortable with. And sometime he laughs at things I don't find exactly funny. Like he'll recount how somebody said something funny, or reacted in a funny way to him, and I just don't get it. That makes me feel awkward, and I don't think I respond how he'd prefer. It could be just that he's a bad story-teller, too.

    Feelings seem somewhat foreign; he is not emotionally adept or eloquent. He remarked once that one time he got on his roommate's case about household chores, left for awhile, and came back to find his roommate "a basket case," which completely surprised him. He said that was one point where he realized people have different reactions emotionally to things. (I successfully kept myself from doing this )

    He has thus developed a sort of skeptical phobia of offending people. It's partly a sort of "why are people like this? It's stupid and illogical" and a fearful feeling of not wanting to push people away or accidentally hurt them.

    He recognizes that working hard and being dedicated to greatness has its costs, including relationally. But he seems to crave relationships and friendships anyway, just doesn't know how to get it to happen. That said, he didn't seem to really accept many of my opinions and suggestions on the topic, like when I tried to explain why individuals might be making particular choices (that he disagrees with).

    One time I told him that women very often dress up to impress each other more than they do men. He gave me a doubtful look but didn't contradict me outright. Then he went on to talk about how he wished someone would write a book called, "Women, for dummies." I have no idea if my concept stuck at all.

    I've had to explain some of the things I said several times, things that seemed obvious to me. For example, that having a solid family helps prepare one for a good marriage / long-term relationship. He just kind of looked at me blankly, then said something like "Sorry, I'm a little dumb. Could you please say that again? I can't understand what you mean." I was kind of flabbergasted for a moment because why would I have to explain that? It's so obvious! How does one break down an innately natural way of thinking or doing? But I tried, using examples and analogies. He got some of the parts of the breakdown, but I'm not sure if the whole original concept got across. At least he patiently listened. That's happened a few times.

    Moral / ethical inconsistencies drive him nuts. He told a story about two of his friends, which illustrates this: A heavier weight girl, not obese but not in shape, broke up with her boyfriend because he was overweight. He developed a terrible opinion of that girl, not because of the choice per se but because she was being a hypocrite.

    He recounted at different times examples of him saying what he really thought getting him into relational trouble, which seemed mostly puzzling to him.

    He said he'd stop hanging out with anyone who'd ever done drugs (at which point I tried not to go ). Doesn't like art (can't tell yet if that's lack of proper exposure or actual dislike - I hope the former). Doesn't consider himself sharp-witted. Really good at math, though that could be practice.

    Good at physically demanding things, like sports and fitness. Considers himself a germaphobe. Reacts badly to people who invade his personal space.

    Has a lot of disdain for people who don't know what they are doing. Will plainly say he thinks people are idiots or incompetent.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    My initial thought was LSI, SLE second.

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Forgot to mention, please keep quotes of the original to a minimum ( @William ). I might edit later for the sake of anonymous anonymity. :-)
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    This person doesn't sound ESE at all. My guess is LSE or LSI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    This person doesn't sound ESE at all. My guess is LSE or LSI.
    Woah, who's the creep in your avatar?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olly From Wally World View Post
    Woah, who's the creep in your avatar?
    I have no idea, it was a drunk decision.

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    You could ask him to sit a personality test.

    I could be wrong of course but generic information doesn't necessarily compute to a psychological type, and I suspect you have as much skills as any other to be able to get an idea of his type.

    Unless of course, your perception is coloured by .... attraction .... but probably not lol

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    My guess is LSE, particularly if he's all into that "formality" bullshit.

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William
    He seems to definitely be a Sensor and he seems Fi-devaluing/Fe-valuing.
    In what ways do you see this manifesting, particularly the Fi-devaluing?


    Quote Originally Posted by Roro View Post
    My initial thought was LSI, SLE second.
    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    This person doesn't sound ESE at all. My guess is LSE or LSI.
    Any particular reasons stand out for either of you?


    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    I edited my post for you per your request.
    Thank you


    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    You could ask him to sit a personality test.

    I could be wrong of course but generic information doesn't necessarily compute to a psychological type, and I suspect you have as much skills as any other to be able to get an idea of his type.

    Unless of course, your perception is coloured by .... attraction .... but probably not lol
    I've only asked a few family members and a couple of close friends to take personality tests. He's a long way from that level.

    As I indicated in my OP, I do indeed have my own ideas, but I want to know what everyone here thinks. I enjoy learning what goes on in people's heads and how they reach conclusions. Sometimes angles I hadn't considered get brought to light.

    I assume you mean attraction in the romantic/sexual way, which is not the case here (not yet anyway - I'm cautious with my emotions). Sometimes individuals will strike me as particularly interesting, and it becomes easy for me to focus on and delve into who they are, which makes descriptions like the above easy to do. That is another form of attraction I suppose.


    I've done descriptions like this several times over the years. When/if I have time, I might switch gears here to describe my more subjective reactions to him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cubozoan
    My guess is LSE, particularly if he's all into that "formality" bullshit.
    Hm, what kind of formality do you mean?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    In what ways do you see this manifesting, particularly the Fi-devaluing?




    Any particular reasons stand out for either of you?



    Thank you



    I've only asked a few family members and a couple of close friends to take personality tests. He's a long way from that level.

    As I indicated in my OP, I do indeed have my own ideas, but I want to know what everyone here thinks. I enjoy learning what goes on in people's heads and how they reach conclusions. Sometimes angles I hadn't considered get brought to light.

    I assume you mean attraction in the romantic/sexual way, which is not the case here (not yet anyway - I'm cautious with my emotions). Sometimes individuals will strike me as particularly interesting, and it becomes easy for me to focus on and delve into who they are, which makes descriptions like the above easy to do. That is another form of attraction I suppose.


    I've done descriptions like this several times over the years. When/if I have time, I might switch gears here to describe my more subjective reactions to him.



    Hm, what kind of formality do you mean?
    I seen some of me in him fwiw haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Any particular reasons stand out for either of you?
    From just the description you've given, he seems more Se > Si valuing. Obvious keywords: thriving in high-pressure environments, straightforward. Although, as William mentioned, a SLE germaphobe seems a bit strange. But this could very well be do to other 'issues', or maybe even enneagram/stacking (1 or 3 sp?).

    Also Fe > Fi. The more I think about it, the less likely I believe SLE to be. He doesn't seem Fi-polr; has some awareness over personal issues (not wanting to offend others) and boundaries.

    The way you wrote of him steered me away from considering Delta ST. What you wrote wasn't necessarily bad, I just got vibes that you would likely be more tense than comfortable if placed in a locked room with him for several hours.

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    Could even be some very ISFj.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    @Cubozoan, you wrote a response earlier that I liked but didn't have time to respond to. What happened?


    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I seen some of me in him fwiw haha
    I can see that, too, yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Roro View Post
    From just the description you've given, he seems more Se > Si valuing. Obvious keywords: thriving in high-pressure environments, straightforward. Although, as William mentioned, a SLE germaphobe seems a bit strange. But this could very well be do to other 'issues', or maybe even enneagram/stacking (1 or 3 sp?).

    Also Fe > Fi. The more I think about it, the less likely I believe SLE to be. He doesn't seem Fi-polr; has some awareness over personal issues (not wanting to offend others) and boundaries.

    The way you wrote of him steered me away from considering Delta ST. What you wrote wasn't necessarily bad, I just got vibes that you would likely be more tense than comfortable if placed in a locked room with him for several hours.
    Awesome, thank you. This is a great segue in to my own personal reactions.

    So, obviously some of how he relates to others is to me. I don't think less of him, though, because I don't detect much if any malice. In fact, as you point out, he has paranoia about messing up. That's endearing and makes me want to help him (though he hasn't shown signs of trusting me to know what I'm talking about in that regard). Also, I'm pretty sure I do things that make other people shake their heads at me, too, haha.

    How I thus far have felt around him: safe, comfortable, sometimes puzzled, often entertained. His honest perceptions and judgments were sometimes rather hilarious to me (tried not to laugh in his face, though). Once I felt like I had to step in and solve something (directly related to the person who was invading his personal space - it was a weird situation). Sometimes I have felt as if he was waiting for me to choose a direction in terms of what to do / talk about. Since I don't know him, I can't tell if that was habit, a test, or really what he wanted.

    Sometimes he'd ask questions that I consider too personal, which would make me feel somewhat uncomfortable but I'd answer anyway to an extent (it's my habit with everybody). If I did raise up a boundary, however, he wouldn't push at it; that was nice, and also refreshing. Sometimes he's assertively done something, which I find pleasant. E.g. once he said "you should come with us" to a dinner thing some people were doing that I was too shy to invite myself to join. (that sounds silly saying it aloud here...)

    Sometimes the way he tried to tease me a few times made me uncomfortable, in that I didn't know how to respond. It feels related to how I couldn't latch on to the humor of his funny stories.

    In one sense, I'm kind of afraid that my relaxedness with regard to accepting people (despite what some on here might think of me!) plus my own plentitude of mistakes will inspire disgust and he'll push me away as a potential friend. Not to mention my lack of long-term drive. I can totally see myself failing to live up to his high standards of working hard, making practical decisions, being consistent, etc. I like that stuff, but I don't do it all the time.

    To me, his honesty is refreshing. I can ask a question and get a straight answer. It's wonderful. Though, of course, I have to be emotionally prepared to accept the answer as is, even if it isn't comfortable. Like many strong qualities, it's a double-edged sword.


    So, yeah, feelings. Mostly positive at this point. So far he seems like a worthwhile human to keep around. I'd probably survive just fine locked in a room with him for hours, especially at this point because I find him entertaining. Not sure how he'd feel about that, though.



    Awhile back I met a girl who was similarly fascinating to me, but while we're now good friends I've lost the drive to describe her. I ended up typing her EIE. That's not relevant to this discussion, but I felt like saying it.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    I see LSI or SLE but most likely LSI.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    I think this person is LSE. SLE isn't a possibility at all, I don't know where people are getting it from. He's obviously a judger. LSE's joke around a lot too, they are often kings and queens of bad office jokes that nobody else finds funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    I think this person is LSE. SLE isn't a possibility at all, I don't know where people are getting it from. He's obviously a judger. LSE's joke around a lot too, they are often kings and queens of bad office jokes that nobody else finds funny.
    Start of Fe in SLE from wikisocion, in terms of telling jokes

    SLEs find themselves unable to adequately raise an emotionally dull atmosphere, which is why they greatly appreciate another individual proficient in this function. SLEs naturally gravitate towards warm, cheerful atmospheres. If an SLE makes a social move that doesn't get the emotional response he expects, he will feel uneasy or offended e.g. if no one laughs at a joke he tells.
    Also everyone has opinions and judges that isn't J/P j/p per se

    I know you are just stating your opinion, i'm explaining how SLE can still be a possibility.

    Of course quasi-identicals can seem quite similar, at least from superficial descriptions, hence them being quasi-identicals. The joys of socionics which is why I rather leave my head in the oven....well I don't really, but hey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Start of Fe in SLE from wikisocion, in terms of telling jokes
    Both of these types can joke around and both can be serious - depends on the individual. I was just saying that it's not necessary that this person is Fe valuing if he jokes around the office. LSE are quite jovial ime and tell a lot of dirty jokes too.

    Also everyone has opinions and judges that isn't J/P j/p per se
    I'm not saying he's a j because he has opinions/judges at all.

    Of course quasi-identicals can seem quite similar, at least from superficial descriptions, hence them being quasi-identicals. The joys of socionics which is why I rather leave my head in the oven....well I don't really, but hey
    I agree that some quasi-identicals are difficult to discern, but usually you can detect Se leading quite quickly, particularly in males (not over text ofc).

    Why I don't think this person is SLE:

    He is a germaphobe

    "Not to mention my lack of long-term drive. I can totally see myself failing to live up to his high standards of working hard, making practical decisions, being consistent, etc. "

    "Moral / ethical inconsistencies drive him nuts."

    "He said he'd stop hanging out with anyone who'd ever done drugs (at which point I tried not to go )."

    SLE's have a certain pushiness to them, more aggressive stepping over boundaries than I get from this description. They're not exactly subtle people. It's difficult to imagine an EII woman be this relaxed and comfortable around a .SLE - attracted is a different story.

    And LSE's also strive in high-pressure environments and can be very straight-forward. That doesn't mean Se valuing.

    It's a different kind of straight-forwardness...SLE's are like bulldozers when they want something ("snap snap, move move" like a hurricane), LSE's have a nagging and preacher-ish feel to them (Why didn't you people do that, you work quicker next time, yada yada...) - SLE's are seriously scary in a physical energy kind of way, while you're never really scared of LSE, just annoyed by him.. LSE's also love to give you guilty conscience about things, SLE's don't give a shit - they just want things done their way and at time when they decided they should be done (they don't care what people did before or after) or they lose their shit - but never in a morally preacherish way, just as in my way or the highway. At least that was my experience with LSE and SLE bosses, and I've had quite a few.

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    My guess would be Te-LIE. Enneagram-wise he doesn't sound like the e7/e8 type covered by majority of the LIE profiles, but of superego type considering how you describe him as very hard-working and conscientious, so e1 or e6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    So, obviously some of how he relates to others is to me. I don't think less of him, though, because I don't detect much if any malice. In fact, as you point out, he has paranoia about messing up. That's endearing and makes me want to help him (though he hasn't shown signs of trusting me to know what I'm talking about in that regard). Also, I'm pretty sure I do things that make other people shake their heads at me, too, haha.

    How I thus far have felt around him: safe, comfortable, sometimes puzzled, often entertained. His honest perceptions and judgments were sometimes rather hilarious to me (tried not to laugh in his face, though). Once I felt like I had to step in and solve something (directly related to the person who was invading his personal space - it was a weird situation). Sometimes I have felt as if he was waiting for me to choose a direction in terms of what to do / talk about. Since I don't know him, I can't tell if that was habit, a test, or really what he wanted.

    Sometimes he'd ask questions that I consider too personal, which would make me feel somewhat uncomfortable but I'd answer anyway to an extent (it's my habit with everybody). If I did raise up a boundary, however, he wouldn't push at it; that was nice, and also refreshing. Sometimes he's assertively done something, which I find pleasant. E.g. once he said "you should come with us" to a dinner thing some people were doing that I was too shy to invite myself to join. (that sounds silly saying it aloud here...)

    Sometimes the way he tried to tease me a few times made me uncomfortable, in that I didn't know how to respond. It feels related to how I couldn't latch on to the humor of his funny stories.

    In one sense, I'm kind of afraid that my relaxedness with regard to accepting people (despite what some on here might think of me!) plus my own plentitude of mistakes will inspire disgust and he'll push me away as a potential friend. Not to mention my lack of long-term drive. I can totally see myself failing to live up to his high standards of working hard, making practical decisions, being consistent, etc. I like that stuff, but I don't do it all the time.

    To me, his honesty is refreshing. I can ask a question and get a straight answer. It's wonderful. Though, of course, I have to be emotionally prepared to accept the answer as is, even if it isn't comfortable. Like many strong qualities, it's a double-edged sword.


    So, yeah, feelings. Mostly positive at this point. So far he seems like a worthwhile human to keep around. I'd probably survive just fine locked in a room with him for hours, especially at this point because I find him entertaining. Not sure how he'd feel about that, though.



    Awhile back I met a girl who was similarly fascinating to me, but while we're now good friends I've lost the drive to describe her. I ended up typing her EIE. That's not relevant to this discussion, but I felt like saying it.
    A lot of this sounded like semi-duality relations: we get along great, then oops, something he says or does that feels awkward and throws the whole thing off, and you're drawn together again.
    It's also likely that you have somehow compatible enneagram and instinct layouts which makes the interaction more effortless. Like a semi-duality with a bonus.

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    What gave me a non-LIE impression is the germophobia and the "Women for dummies" thingy, traits which I typically associate with ST types. But LIE-Te doesn't sound bad either.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    delta ST 9w8 sp/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    SLE's have a certain pushiness to them, more aggressive stepping over boundaries than I get from this description. They're not exactly subtle people. It's difficult to imagine an EII woman be this relaxed and comfortable around a .SLE - attracted is a different story.
    Socionics being largely a theory of relationships, I consider my level of comfort an important factor as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    It's a different kind of straight-forwardness...SLE's are like bulldozers when they want something ("snap snap, move move" like a hurricane), LSE's have a nagging and preacher-ish feel to them (Why didn't you people do that, you work quicker next time, yada yada...) - SLE's are seriously scary in a physical energy kind of way, while you're never really scared of LSE, just annoyed by him.. LSE's also love to give you guilty conscience about things, SLE's don't give a shit - they just want things done their way and at time when they decided they should be done (they don't care what people did before or after) or they lose their shit - but never in a morally preacherish way, just as in my way or the highway. At least that was my experience with LSE and SLE bosses, and I've had quite a few.
    I worked for a SLE for years, and I relate to this. My boss was very "make it be like he wants" in a physical sense. There were times he'd actually grab me and move me where he wanted me (not harshly, just in a "here, THIS is what I want" way). It took me years to stop being very intimidated by him. While I liked him well enough as a person, I'd often find myself shaking after interactions with him. And even when I did develop confidence, it was half bluff, haha. In contrast, this guy is much more on the preachy end, for sure. I have yet to find him either intimidating in the same way or annoying, though I can easily see how he'd end up rubbing some people the wrong way.


    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    My guess would be Te-LIE. Enneagram-wise he doesn't sound like the e7/e8 type covered by majority of the LIE profiles, but of superego type considering how you describe him as very hard-working and conscientious, so e1 or e6.


    A lot of this sounded like semi-duality relations: we get along great, then oops, something he says or does that feels awkward and throws the whole thing off, and you're drawn together again.
    It's also likely that you have somehow compatible enneagram and instinct layouts which makes the interaction more effortless. Like a semi-duality with a bonus.
    Ooh, interesting points, thanks! Also, enneagram compatibility? I've been slowly learning more about e-types; do you have any resources that talk more about the type compatibilities (or un-compatibilities)?


    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    What gave me a non-LIE impression is the germophobia and the "Women for dummies" thingy, traits which I typically associate with ST types. But LIE-Te doesn't sound bad either.
    TBH, LIE-Te was my initial reaction after 5 minutes of my very first conversation with him.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIIbrarian View Post
    I see LSI or SLE but most likely LSI.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    delta ST 9w8 sp/so
    Why?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    TBH, LIE-Te was my initial reaction after 5 minutes of my very first conversation with him.
    Allright, then I guess it's a typing that makes sense. Even though I do think he sounds a bit extreme (unless he's purposefully being like that just to attract attention).
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    I don't get the impression that attracting attention is his goal, unless it's part of a different goal (e.g. getting a good job).

    And I don't particularly see him as being exactly like you, either. He's more emphatic / jovial in written communication for one thing. (Then again, my BiL who I type as SLI apparently uses millions of emoticons when texting with his wife, so... sometimes written expression can be deceiving.)

    What do you see as extreme?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    And I don't particularly see him as being exactly like you, either.
    No, I agree, he doesn't sound like me given the description. Much more active with people than I normally am. You could however argue that I'm just somewhat more .

    What do you see as extreme?
    Just going by your first description:

    - He remarked once that one time he got on his roommate's case about household chores, left for awhile, and came back to find his roommate "a basket case," which completely surprised him.

    - One time I told him that women very often dress up to impress each other more than they do men. He gave me a doubtful look but didn't contradict me outright. Then he went on to talk about how he wished someone would write a book called, "Women, for dummies." I have no idea if my concept stuck at all.

    - Considers himself a germaphobe. Reacts badly to people who invade his personal space. Has a lot of disdain for people who don't know what they are doing. Will plainly say he thinks people are idiots or incompetent.
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    Sounds like a really stupid LSE. At least, the ones im familiar with. Actually reminds me of one I know. My EII friend kind of treats him like a child

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    It's really difficult to imagine any LIE being this stupid and simple-minded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    It's really difficult to imagine any LIE being this stupid and simple-minded.
    Honestly, I would really think someone that simpleminded would be at least mildly autistic. Seems too far out to be type related, what do you think?

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    You guys are so mean. What if he has a story, a reason behind what he doesn't know or isn't good at? What if he used to be much worse, but is getting better?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Honestly, I would really think someone that simpleminded would be at least mildly autistic. Seems too far out to be type related, what do you think?
    But his others characteristics oppose the autism hypothesis. He's probably intelligent enough, just simple-minded, as in not seeing below the surface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Why?
    Among the particular things that stood out to me as LSI-like:

    Works long hours and goes long periods without vacation time. He succeeds in high-pressure environments (might thrive it it, too, but can't tell yet).

    --> Succeeding in high pressure environments and working long periods of time suggests strong valued Sounds more decisive than judicious quadra.

    Jokes loudly and forcefully at times, more so than I'm comfortable with. And sometime he laughs at things I don't find exactly funny. Like he'll recount how somebody said something funny, or reacted in a funny way to him, and I just don't get it. That makes me feel awkward, and I don't think I respond how he'd prefer. It could be just that he's a bad story-teller, too.

    --> Bad story-teller suggests weaker Fe likely. Louder and more forceful humor seems more likely with beta quadra.

    Feelings seem somewhat foreign; he is not emotionally adept or eloquent. He remarked once that one time he got on his roommate's case about household chores, left for awhile, and came back to find his roommate "a basket case," which completely surprised him. He said that was one point where he realized people have different reactions emotionally to things. (I successfully kept myself from doing this )

    --> Sounds like weak, 1D Fe.

    He has thus developed a sort of skeptical phobia of offending people. It's partly a sort of "why are people like this? It's stupid and illogical" and a fearful feeling of not wanting to push people away or accidentally hurt them.

    --> Phobia of offending people- could point to Fi role function.
    --> Analyze "why are people like this?" It's stupid and illogical- Sounds like it could be Ti base

    I've had to explain some of the things I said several times, things that seemed obvious to me. For example, that having a solid family helps prepare one for a good marriage / long-term relationship. He just kind of looked at me blankly, then said something like "Sorry, I'm a little dumb. Could you please say that again? I can't understand what you mean." I was kind of flabbergasted for a moment because why would I have to explain that? It's so obvious! How does one break down an innately natural way of thinking or doing? But I tried, using examples and analogies. He got some of the parts of the breakdown, but I'm not sure if the whole original concept got across. At least he patiently listened. That's happened a few times.

    --> Trying to make logic out of an inherently feeling sort of thing. Again logical > ethical if it wasn't obvious already. Sounds like weak N if it's a more conceptual in nature thing he isn't grasping.

    Moral / ethical inconsistencies drive him nuts. He told a story about two of his friends, which illustrates this: A heavier weight girl, not obese but not in shape, broke up with her boyfriend because he was overweight. He developed a terrible opinion of that girl, not because of the choice per se but because she was being a hypocrite.

    --> Okay, this could suggest strong, valued Fi. Or it could just be the Fi role function kicking in.

    He recounted at different times examples of him saying what he really thought getting him into relational trouble, which seemed mostly puzzling to him.

    --> Weak, unvalued Fi

    Good at physically demanding things, like sports and fitness. Considers himself a germaphobe. Reacts badly to people who invade his personal space.

    --> I see strong creative Se function here. Germaphobe- could be demonstrative Si?

    Those were some of the things that stood out to me when reading this. Also, the overall vibe seemed like an immature LSI to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Why?
    because I'm pretty sure that's his type...

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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    Lol no I just think he's LSI. This is funny to me, coming from a self-typed IEE. Calling your conflictor 'mildly autistic'. I'm guessing you don't hang around LSIs much to really hear their world views or perceptions of other people, do you?
    lol, idk, i think i'd probably steer away from someone who has a overly simplistic way of looking at people. But yeah, could be a strong bias, when Minde described him I thought "well that sounds like a thouroughly unpleasant person".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    You guys are so mean. What if he has a story, a reason behind what he doesn't know or isn't good at? What if he used to be much worse, but is getting better?
    oh... i mean, probably. There's a reason to everything, a background to anyone. I'm not saying he's a bad person, nor that you should stay away or anything. Just that such a lack of basic social skills seems out of type range to me, but as others have pointed out it could be type related too.

    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    But his others characteristics oppose the autism hypothesis. He's probably intelligent enough, just simple-minded, as in not seeing below the surface.
    hmhm, but the mild autism spectrum people like asperges can be fairly to extremely intelligent. I'm just... idk i'd say that information preference as described in socionics imho wouldn't go as far as blatantly not understanding something at all. Seems extreme is all i'm saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris;1064647[/QUOTE
    hmhm, but the mild autism spectrum people like asperges can be fairly to extremely intelligent. I'm just... idk i'd say that information preference as described in socionics imho wouldn't go as far as blatantly not understanding something at all. Seems extreme is all i'm saying.
    I know they are mostly intelligent. The guy doesn't sound autistic to me for other reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    hmhm, but the mild autism spectrum people like asperges can be fairly to extremely intelligent. I'm just... idk i'd say that information preference as described in socionics imho wouldn't go as far as blatantly not understanding something at all. Seems extreme is all i'm saying.
    I know they are mostly intelligent. The guy doesn't sound autistic to me for other reasons.[/QUOTE]

    ok cool, could be bias from my side like william said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    But his others characteristics oppose the autism hypothesis. He's probably intelligent enough, just simple-minded, as in not seeing below the surface.
    Ah, ok, not seeing below the surface. I still haven't had a ton of interaction with him, but I'd say he might have to try harder to look beyond the obvious, where it might be easier for most others.



    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    Seems like Ti-way of classifying things to the extreme. Typical Beta-style of 'you're either with us or against us', with no in-between, or understanding the different shades/complexities of people like Deltas do. Also his remarking about people having different emotional reactions to things sounds like a conscious Fi role function coming out, verbalizing something that is obvious to an EII like you.
    I didn't get a "with us or against us" vibe, but I could have just overlooked it.



    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    LSEs are generally too process-driven to care that much if they offend someone. They're too apathetic to develop a real phobia.
    Offending "people", no, they and SLIs don't seem as bothered about that. Offending individuals they like - well, they can care more and be more proactive about that. Or at least it is a worry, ime.


    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    Would be kind of weird for an LSE or SLI or perhaps any Fi-valuer to want to read a book about people's emotions in order to understand them better. Seems Ti-valuing in a way of wanting to categorize people again.
    I think I'd have to disagree with this. I frequently read books and articles on how people think, feel, and work internally. Some of my favorite classes in school had to do with psychology. In the last year alone I've grown emotionally myself, and I know I have a long way to go in that as well as in how to better interact with others. I look to all sorts of resources to help me with that, including books. In fact, right now I'm finishing a book called Just Listen, which I plan to reread.


    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    And the use of the word "dummies" seems he values people's intelligence and how quick they are to pick up on things, and it's like he feels offended if you share something he doesn't know. Regardless of type, seems like he has a lower self-image and doesn't want to be shown up by a girl. It's also like he doesn't want you to be superior to him, in an Se-valuing way. It's sort of funny where any attempt you make to share something insightful or teach him something is underhandedly dismissed.
    The "for dummies" is a reference to a whole series of books that aim to explain concepts in a particularly easy-to-digest fashion (e.g. Home Maintenance for Dummies).

    I do agree with the lower self-image. And it makes me sad because I think he could be a lot more and a lot better in his weak areas if he stopped beating himself up about them and "having negative self-talk" as they say.


    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    Again, I doubt this is Ne-valuing, or open-mindedness about the different shades of people. Seems like Beta classifying others to the extreme.
    It's something I'm going to keep watching for, when I get another chance.


    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    Signs of being a sensor in general. Territoriality around personal space is one of the direct definitions of being a sensor from the Russians, I believe.
    Unless you're also an oldest child - "stop touching my stuff!"


    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    And then, of the ST types, I wouldn't see an LSE as that paranoid of people's perceptions, and an LSE with weak ethics would be much more appreciative of your efforts to help/enlighten them in certain ways.
    Yes, I imagine a LSE would, and ones that trust me do. However, it's not always the case. I've gotten in significant fights with an LSE or two over their forceful rejection of my opinions. And many Te types seem to require trust-building before they'll take what people say to heart. Like I need to prove I know what I'm talking about. With practical things, that's pretty easy because facts are pretty straightforward. When it comes to people things, though, that's not as concrete so it can take longer and I need to wait for the right situation to present itself. Which I might not even be aware of as a situation wherein I either prove myself or fail.

    Also, when you critique a person in their weak spot, it can be painful, and Te's don't always respond well to people hurting them... Actually, make that any person...


    I'm not arguing for or against LSI at this point.




    Thanks, @LIIbrarian, that was a great breakdown.
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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    lol, idk, i think i'd probably steer away from someone who has a overly simplistic way of looking at people. But yeah, could be a strong bias, when Minde described him I thought "well that sounds like a thouroughly unpleasant person".
    It could be he sounds so unpleasant to you because I described the things that stood out to me, the things that struck me as different or odd or a strong feature. Like the (to me) humorous non-understanding of emotions. Or it could be because he actually is an unpleasant person. Either way I tend to have a tolerance for unintentional brusqueness. (Malice or not caring at all is another story.) As far as I can tell, his intentions toward myself at least has been benevolent, and I see him as such toward others, too.




    Ok, so here's a little more NTR background that might shed additional light: He's an immigrant to the US; he was raised with that goal, essentially, and he's had to work his tail off to be where he is now, which is (as far as I can tell) middle to upper middle class in America. The focus on excellence precluded many relationships, which he's just recently beginning to consider a possibility now that he's more or less "made it." It takes a LOT of focus and work to do what he's done.

    His mother was the main female influence in his life, again up until recently. Despite all the (legitimate) equality talk, women still tend to be more emotionally sophisticated then men, particularly in some cultures; it takes a balance of feminine and masculine input to make for a well-rounded individual, imo.


    I've debated this with myself, and my gut says "be careful, but go ahead," so if anyone is curious to do a VI I can PM a photo or two. Maybe a short video that I pirated as well.
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    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    I think the background description is helpful to understand some of the rougher traits in combination with an apparent stronger emotivity in text, mmmh.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I think the background description is helpful to understand some of the rougher traits in combination with an apparent stronger emotivity in text, mmmh.
    Does it alter your opinion of his type?
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