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Thread: Mum ENFp Mother in law ESFp

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    Default Mum ENFp Mother in law ESFp

    Hi all,

    First of all - hi to all of you who remember me because I haven't been here for a while. During that time I became a happy mum .
    I'm asking for some help ...
    I have some problem with dealing with pressure that my ESFp mother in law is putting on me. She's a very good person. She's willing to help, talk, she loves my baby and is very nice.
    Still... I sometimes feel that I hate her. I'm really ashamed of that and I don't know what to do with this. How to deal with that. I quess it has a lot to do with her being Se type. I don't know how to react. When my baby was small she would just take her from my hands and play with her, leaving my alone. The baby didn't enjoy that either - she wanted to be with her mum - but still she would try to keep her. My heart was nearly breaking but I can't react in such situations, I don't know what to do. I know most mothers would appreciate that - but I don't. I was on the verge of crying when she just took her and went to the other house to show to her neighbours. Every time we are on the phone she says something that I perceive as pushiness - even though she is REALLy nice.
    I'm trembling before Christmas eve.
    What should I do? Can I say something that would be nice and make her understand that I don't want her to behave in such a way? Or how can I deal with it internally so that I don't feel such pain?
    She's so much different that my ESFj mother - I can't even image her doing so. My mum is playful, sensitive to other people and would NEVER do anything like that - she would instantly notice my uneasiness.

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    Have you talked about this with your husband? If so, what was his response?
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Yes, I did, we even had a quarrel because of that. He doesn't understand it. He thinks I should be grateful for having time for myself and that I'm very difficult because I can't just be quiet for a few days they want to spend with her. He's LSE - just for the record. I quess he doesn't want to be part of the conflict. I'm afraid that one day they when she retires she will just live with us - she says she would love to be wth her granddaughter and when I think about it I want to run away and finish the relationship.

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    Atm I can't really offer much in terms of how to deal with that. I wasn't with the dad when my daughter was a baby. And there were court orders for visitations. She would scream "help me...mommie....help me" when he would take her, and there was absolutely nothing I could do, but sit there and listen to her screaming for help from me while he'd take her away for a weekend. He wouldn't even bother trying to make the transition easier for her.

    How old is your baby?
    How often do they come over to see her?
    How often do they take her away? And for how long do they take her?
    Do they ask you first or just show up? Do they spend any time helping the baby feel comfortable with them before taking her?
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Oh anndelise I feel so sorry for you - it must have been really tough for you and for her, I can't even imagine. What does the situation look like now? How did it change?
    My baby is almost 10 months old - she can't speak but she recognizes me well. And now she's going through separation anxiety period - she wants to be with me all the time.
    I'm exaggerating it has probably something to do with my self-issues but I can't control it. I really don't want to feel what I feel.
    They live far away 400 km from her so they are here once a month. The problem escalated for me when we were on holidays together. They would come to our house at 8 o'clock when I was taking a shower and play with her or carry her around without asking me. It was like I was holding her and the grandmother would come and take her saying: I'll take her and go to the garden. I didn't know how to oppose.aShe also doesn't really play with her she just "holds her". And she seems angry when I want to take my baby to calm her down when she starts crying. Maybe it's nothing but my heart was really breaking I felt like crying. First time when I said it to my partner he tried to react, he said to his mother: I'll take her but then his father opposed saying: "mum wants to hold her herself".
    We were all in a garden and she would just say: I'll take her to show to the neighbour.
    Another problem is that I'm totally exhausted and whenever she's with us she follows me around even when I'm breastfeeding.
    I feel so stupid. Maybe I'm overattached to my baby but it's my baby... I cosleep with her and I spend with her every moment. It is a shock when somebody comes and just takes her without asking.

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    Well, one problem is transitioning. Perhaps explain to them that you want your child to feel safe in her environment, that it's not going to suddenly change on her or she won't be at the whims of other people, and to feel like she has a choice in how her environment treats her. They could help encourage this by giving the baby a chance to get to know them and to connect with them BEFORE they pick her up or take her away from where she's feeling safe. So that this way she starts building up emotional memories of safety with them, rather than of submission to the whims of others. (It's important that you use positive sounding words in relation to them, and negative sounding words in relation to "others". It'd be easier for them to recognize that desire for her sense of confidence and safety as it pertains to others who might hurt her, but it would be harder for them to see themselves as an "other" that might be hurting her.)

    So maybe remind them that it's been a month since she saw them, and that as a baby she doesn't have that long enough of a memory to immediately recognize them as one of the safe people. Then suggest that they play with her where she is when they arrive, so she can build up safe feelings with them. And then when she initiates moving towards them, or a desire to be picked up by them, THEN they can. And that this will help her develop confidence.

    (This would have the added benefit of helping you transition as well. Of helping you see your daughter making friends, developing relationships, expanding her world, by HER choice, and less like she's being yanked away from you each time.)
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Oh, btw, regarding my situation. Eventually, as she got bigger, she had enough mass where he couldn't do that without manhandling her. So he had to wait until she was ready, and coax her more to accept him and to be willing to go. And then as she began understanding language more and was more familiar with him, it was easier to get her prepped and excited to go to see him before it was time.
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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    If you have an LSE husband you're in deep poopy because he would hate conflict and negativity in relations as this is his suggestive function. Keep the peace and ignore her go about it as though you can't hear her and do your own thing quietly. Take lessons from ESI on ignoring people around you and why the hell didn't you marry an SLI? y

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ver View Post
    I sometimes feel that I hate her. I'm really ashamed of that and I don't know what to do with this. How to deal with that. I quess it has a lot to do with her being Se type. I don't know how to react.
    hoho. I ended up embracing the feeling. I think you should make situation comfortable for yourself to avoid that. Feeling trampled over is not sustainable.
    The ESFp is not going to change, but might change relationship to you and behavior around you and the kid. Your house, your child, you are the captain of handling the child (or however it is balanced between you and your husband, anyone else is not in the picture anyway) and your mental/emotional health is important not only as a self value but as one the child will depend on the most.
    Of course you shouldn't be over -protective, -possessive and neurotic but you totally have the right to make the grandparents walk on the eggshells in your house, and shouldn't care if they think of you us such.

    Consider me rooting for you in taming or befriending or however you are going to go about it the beast.

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    Se tries to territorialize everything they occupy. Say it nicely. Like, " hey, I really appreciate your attention and concern however I (emphasize "I") feel very uncomfortable when you do X"

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Atm I can't really offer much in terms of how to deal with that. I wasn't with the dad when my daughter was a baby. And there were court orders for visitations. She would scream "help me...mommie....help me" when he would take her, and there was absolutely nothing I could do, but sit there and listen to her screaming for help from me while he'd take her away for a weekend. He wouldn't even bother trying to make the transition easier for her...
    Oh, Ann, I am SO sorry. That tears me up. I get furious at courts who would take a baby from their mother for visitation when baby is bonded to Mom! Let there be supervised visitation with Mom available if that's what the Moms says is needed. Seriously! Its such a serious wound to a soul to interrupt their early bond with Mom!
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ver View Post
    My baby is almost 10 months old - she can't speak but she recognizes me well. And now she's going through separation anxiety period - she wants to be with me all the time.
    I'm exaggerating it has probably something to do with my self-issues but I can't control it. I really don't want to feel what I feel.
    They live far away 400 km from her so they are here once a month. The problem escalated for me when we were on holidays together. They would come to our house at 8 o'clock when I was taking a shower and play with her or carry her around without asking me. It was like I was holding her and the grandmother would come and take her saying: I'll take her and go to the garden. I didn't know how to oppose. She also doesn't really play with her she just "holds her". And she seems angry when I want to take my baby to calm her down when she starts crying. Maybe it's nothing but my heart was really breaking I felt like crying. First time when I said it to my partner he tried to react, he said to his mother: I'll take her but then his father opposed saying: "mum wants to hold her herself".
    We were all in a garden and she would just say: I'll take her to show to the neighbour.
    Another problem is that I'm totally exhausted and whenever she's with us she follows me around even when I'm breastfeeding.
    I feel so stupid. Maybe I'm overattached to my baby but it's my baby... I cosleep with her and I spend with her every moment. It is a shock when somebody comes and just takes her without asking.
    Dearest mom-Ver - your mother instincts are a precious gift. You are the Mom, only you have them, your wants for the baby's comfort mean more than anyone else s! Don't you forget that! Learn to be a real unapologetic Mama Bear! You will find that people tolerate it just fine. You will be doing also what you believe is best for your baby.

    Are you in Le Leche League? Even one meeting or two will help, and if you cannot make a meeting, someone will talk to you on the phone. They were such a help to me. They can help you with these boundary issues.

    Also Dr.and Martha Sears Baby Book had lots of confidence building advice that helped me. Also I have a hard time making boundaries and my Mom in law was SEE. I did not see her often, but SEEs can be real boundary pushers.

    But I have found this is true. As bold as SEE can be pushing boundaries, they can handle your boundaries! You just have to say them. You also have to allow them to have a negative feelign reaction to them. "Well I never!" "I was only trying to help!" "Why are you so picky!" "You are going to spoil that baby!") (Answers to the last two are, "Yes, I know" and "I'm the Mom and I will mother him as I see fit.") Le Leche League Moms will give you lots of answers. But know this, your SEE mother in law is very nice and if you don't make boundaries you will never get to enjoy her as the nice person she is. Once you make boundaries you will find she in fact can keep them. After her feeling-reaction (which she is entitled to) she will be fine with your boundaries, and you will be able to enjoy her company.

    And as to your LSE husband:
    "Yes, I did, we even had a quarrel because of that. He doesn't understand it. He thinks I should be grateful for having time for myself and that I'm very difficult because I can't just be quiet for a few days they want to spend with her. He's LSE - just for the record. I guess he doesn't want to be part of the conflict...."
    Well that's not a good response but marraige is learning to live with each other and parenting makes for lots more learning opportunities. Better you take charge of your baby and telling people what your boundaries are concerning her. You can consult with your LSE husband for your feelings and to get his understanding instead of for a solution to a problem he can't totally get -- he is not feeling the distress you feel when the baby cries. So, first of all take charge and be Mama Bear and tell others what your boundaries are. "When the baby cries and wants Mom, she GETS Mom!" You decide how long she can be held and if/when she can leave your sight. They might bulk at first but everyone will get used to it! You will see! The first time you stand up for yourself it will be hardest, but it will get easier and easier each time til you wonder what the problem ever was.


    I followed Sears attachment parenting and my 10th month old was attached at the hip (and breast) constantly. Co-slept too. People thought he'd be a Mama's boy because he was far more attached and demanding for Mom than other babies his age. But when he was a toddler he began to be more independent than any else's toddlers and he has always been a very independent kid. (18 now!). Your daughter wants you because she needs you. When they get their attachment needs met when they need them when they are babies, they won't need to cling so much when they are toddlers and they will be independent kids. Because their deepest needs got met when they had them. So you keep listening to your Mom-instinct. It won't steer you wrong.

    You do have to get stronger with boundaries but you will feel empowered when you find it works!

    I also have to say the kind of help a Mom of an infant needs is for someone to make dinner or put in a wash or do some shopping so she can hold/nurse/love her baby without feeling pressure of so much to do. Its not "help" to sit and cuddle a baby while the Mom slaves away at the daily endless necessary menial work. Its self-indulgence! So if anyone tells you they want to help - tell them what there is to do: dishes, laundry, "I'd LOVE it! Thanks so much!"

    ... I'm afraid that one day they when she retires she will just live with us - she says she would love to be with her granddaughter and when I think about it I want to run away and finish the relationship.
    The relationship will be much better when you make boundaries and you learn she is fine with respecting them. Be as firm as you have to and you will find that SEE is actually quite adaptable and won't hold a grudge for long (maybe just a little while!). As to having another adult in the house in a young marraige with young children - I think that woudl make anyone shudder. Don't feel bad, its not personal to say, "I could never share my home. I enjoy visits, within limits, but I could never share my home." (You can always change your mind if circumstances called for it!).

    So guard your home and your mothering. You have the most important job in the world!
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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    .
    .


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    To Martisa - I don't know why I didn't marry an..SLI - probably because I fell in love with my LSE but I wasn't aware of his type when I did. But activity is one of the best relationships anyway. If I were INFj I would have it even harder with his mum
    to Esaman - thank you for rooting me. I decided I will kindly tell her that I don't feel well when she takes from me - I hope I'll have enough power.
    Consentingadult - we are not married so we cannot divorce. But believe me split up sometimes comes to my mind, this relationship changed so much since I got pregnant... but I hope it'll be better. Yesterday I tried to talk to him about it once again, it was much better although not perfect. He told me that I'm behaving as if I was preparing for a war and for him the upcoming Christmas Eve is just the time to relax.
    To Eliza Thomason - thank you so much. You put so much faith in me I'm so grateful. I managed to talk with my partner and I felt there's some strength filling me in. I learned what Le Leche League is and I will buy the book you talked about. Congratulations about bringing up your child - to be honest this is something I naturally believe in - that if you give to a baby a lot of love and fulfil their needs they will be more independent and happy in the future.
    Being a mother is a very responsible role and you gave me confidence that I'm doing the things in a right way.
    I'v never thought that the response I get would help me so much.

    Thank you all.

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    I have some problem with dealing with pressure that my ESFp mother in law is putting on me. She's a very good person.


    Tantalize her and she'll be tamed.

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    Oh interesting situation, tell us how it works out and I hope it works out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    This is hilarious, especially coming from a self-proclaimed EII. This is definitely going in the quotes hall of fame.
    Only with regards to relationship entanglements and trouble. .not only only but close

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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    Welcome back, Ver!



    Set boundaries. That's my 2-word answer for what you need to do.

    This helps clear up some of my questions above, but my advice still stands. You need to have them ASK for permission to hold YOUR BABY, rather than just TAKING THE BABY away. They have much less legal rights as the grandparents than you as the mother.
    Thank you William for devoting your time to try to get me activated. I really really really really appreciate that. This is something that I need and it's difficult to act without it. I don't have much time now but I will try to answer all of your questions in the evening.
    It feels so great to have somebody stand up for your rights .

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    This is what I have been thinking all along. That's to say, it isn't your MIL who is the problem, it is your 'husband', who doesn't stand up for you. A true LSE is amongst those types that will defend those people that can't defend themselves. But in your case, your LSE doesn't side with you. So the least you should do is not set boundaries with your MIL (at first), it's to set boundaries with your 'husband' and make clear to him what you expect of him. And that some things are not negotiable.
    Believe me even the best of LSE will not be a man and stand up against others for their SO believing or saying that people should handle their own personal problems. ..sad as this is. So what do you do about someone who just doesn't care to care. You either grow some balls or you gotta handle it quietly to try and keep the peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    How do you know he doesn't care? He could also be under control of his mother. I don't know what the English word is for such a man, in Dutch we call it a moederskindje (mother's child or mother's boy). That's also where the risk is in this process: if Ver sets boundaries with her MIL, the MIL might try to win her son over to her side, and things will get more complicated. For Ver one thing is of highest importance: who does her 'husband' team up with, with her or her MIL?
    In English it's"mamma's boy"

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    OK, so let's start from the very beginning.

    Just saying, but I also find it weird that she felt a need to 'show off' the baby to neighbors. What, as a status symbol? Wtf. Is this her first grandchild or something? Why the hell should she care for gaining favor and respect from neighbors anyway? This lady may have some weird self-identity issues and/or a low self-esteem. Not going to say she *definitely* does because of that, it's just 1 incident, and maybe she was just very proud, but it's something to look out for.
    It is her first grandchild and she's a primary school teacher so it's some kind of ambition for her that she has good relationship with the baby. Moreover, I'm pretty sure she has some issues (maybe she feels guilty/afraid) because her own children didn't visit their grandmother and her mother-in-law, who used to live one km from them. And my LSE even once called the grandfather MR ;). She's afraid they will be "grandparents from the picture". In general they don't keep in youch with any family members.

    Multiple things I want to address in this post: First, if you want to get your husband on your side, start calling the shots and making demands as the woman. Start holding off on sex lol. See how he responds.
    William, it's funny ! :) That's a good tip but not in our situation - a small baby changes everything. He works a lot and we don't even have time for sex. Moreover, if that does happen we fear that she'll wake up and I'll have to go to her :). If I did hold off on sex he might not even notice ;).

    Third, I feel out of place somewhat suggesting this, but have you considered you may be taking this extra personally if this is your first child and only child so far? I've heard of mothers who have been insanely overprotective with their 1st kids --- then a little less with their 2nd --- then even less with their 3rd ---- and by their 4th kid, they're practically begging people to take them off of their hands for a bit so they can have more time to themselves. Now ---- this said, don't let this feel like it should lessen your emotions or love for your child. If it IS your only child, and you STILL don't want your mother-in-law doing what she wants without permission, then YES - by all means take a stand. It could still prove a point and set boundaries, if you continue to have more children in the future.
    it's definitely not out of place. My ISTp friend - also a mother - doesn't understand this either (but I talked with her about it only briefly). She said she would be really grateful if somebody took her children... different mothers, different attitudes. But I guess she would have no problem saying no when she didn't feel like sb taking away her children.



    Thank you all for "setting the boundaries" phrase. I think this is what I need to do and only I can do it. We'll see what the situation will look like at Christmas.
    Last edited by Ver; 12-06-2014 at 02:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    This is what I have been thinking all along. That's to say, it isn't your MIL who is the problem, it is your 'husband', who doesn't stand up for you. A true LSE is amongst those types that will defend those people that can't defend themselves. But in your case, your LSE doesn't side with you. So the least you should do is not set boundaries with your MIL (at first), it's to set boundaries with your 'husband' and make clear to him what you expect of him. And that some things are not negotiable.
    You are right - it's more painful that he doesn't understand. But I also feel that it's not fair to say that. He ignores that problem because he doesn't understand it and it's really making me sad, annoyed etc.
    My LSE can stand up for me and he does. When I was pregnant and walking the dogs in the morning I was attacked by a guy who started calling my names. I got really afraid and called him immediately. He jumped out of bed (he was sleeping) and was there really quickly. That's kind of funny when I recall it c ause the guy started running away after he saw I was calling him. When my LSE appered (OMG with our expensive kitchen knife wrapped in a flowery paper) I didn't feel like chasing the guy. But he was angry and wanted to find him. Once he realized the situation wasn't as serious as he had expected he left the knife to me and caught that guy and told him to appologize to me. The guy said "no" so he pushed him against the wall, I didn't see that but he did nothing bad to him. This guy was much smaller and weaker (but still a stupid jerk). It felt great - he behaved like my hero. Not only did he stand up for me but he also saved that guy - he didn't even punch him. He proved to me that he's not aggressive but will not let anyone hurt me.
    Last edited by Ver; 12-06-2014 at 03:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    How do you know he doesn't care? He could also be under control of his mother. I don't know what the English word is for such a man, in Dutch we call it a moederskindje (mother's child or mother's boy). That's also where the risk is in this process: if Ver sets boundaries with her MIL, the MIL might try to win her son over to her side, and things will get more complicated. For Ver one thing is of highest importance: who does her 'husband' team up with, with her or her MIL?
    Hm, I wouldn't say he's mother's boy - at least not to great extent. I know what I'm talking about because my father is - and it's really painful. My LSE can oppose to his mum but I guess he just doesn't know how to solve the problem he doesn't see... and he's a very conflict avoidant person. Even with me he prefers to keep quiet and wait than to talk and solve the issue.

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    You're being a pussy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    You're being a pussy.
    Will you elaborate on that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ver View Post
    Will you elaborate on that?
    It's the kid's grandmother. She's a fucking primary school teacher. She's just trying to bond with her grandchild. It's not abnormal. Do you have the same reaction when your mother tries to old your baby?

    She *needs* to be held by other people. It's part of raising a well socialized child. Get over it. Do the right thing for your kid, let her bond with her grandparents and let other people interact with her so that she doesn't freak the hell out on her first day of pre school.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    It's the kid's grandmother. She's a fucking primary school teacher. She's just trying to bond with her grandchild. It's not abnormal. Do you have the same reaction when your mother tries to old your baby?

    She *needs* to be held by other people. It's part of raising a well socialized child. Get over it. Do the right thing for your kid, let her bond with her grandparents and let other people interact with her so that she doesn't freak the hell out on her first day of pre school.
    You are attacking me. Maybe you should read the whole thread to understand what I was writing about because it definitely wasn't about preventing her from holding the baby.
    And when it comes to my mother - if she does sth I don't like I have no problems telling her, that's the difference. Another thing is (and my partner agreed with me on that) is that I can't imagine my mother approaching my partner and, without saying a word, taking the child from his hands and going to another room with her.
    When it comes to bonding - on that level a child needs mostly mother. Of course she appreciates other interactions a lot - she's a really playful child - but she needs to see her mother is around. IT is normal. Believe me - me and my younger sister are really close with our entire big family. I don't know many people who have such close contact with their grandparents as I did and still do. And my sister, until she was about 4, was afraid of almost everyone approaching her. She pretended that she didn't see her aunt whenever she tried to talk to her. She was hiding when she saw her uncle because she was afraid of his moustache.
    Last edited by Ver; 12-06-2014 at 02:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ver View Post
    You are attacking me. Maybe you should read the whole thread to understand what I was writing about because it definitely wasn't about preventing her from holding the baby.
    Yup. You're a pussy. Maybe your hormones are still out of whack -- it can take a while for them to normalize after pregnancy -- but you're being phenomnally over sensitive.

    I did read the entire thread. And you know what? It makes you look psychotic. There is nothing offensive of abnormal about your mother in law's behavior. It looks like she's trying to take a normal, active role in her grand child's life, and that's something to be thankful for, not bitch about. Please explain to me just exactly what is wrong with a woman holding her grandchild while her mother is in the shower? What is wrong with a grandmother taking a child from its mother's arms? It's not like she's plucking the babe off your tit. It's completely normal. And you know what? If you have a fucking problem with it /tell her/ you're a grown ass woman.

    You're fucking insane. Your mother in law wants to be a good grand mother to her grand child and you're pondering getting a divorce from the father of your child because of it. The only weird behavior evidenced in this thread is your own. Get a grip. You seem to have some sort of postpartum related problem. See a counselor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    Yup. You're a pussy. Maybe your hormones are still out of whack -- it can take a while for them to normalize after pregnancy -- but you're being phenomnally over sensitive.

    I did read the entire thread. And you know what? It makes you look psychotic. There is nothing offensive of abnormal about your mother in law's behavior. It looks like she's trying to take a normal, active role in her grand child's life, and that's something to be thankful for, not bitch about. Please explain to me just exactly what is wrong with a woman holding her grandchild while her mother is in the shower? What is wrong with a grandmother taking a child from its mother's arms? It's not like she's plucking the babe off your tit. It's completely normal. And you know what? If you have a fucking problem with it /tell her/ you're a grown ass woman.

    You're fucking insane. Your mother in law wants to be a good grand mother to her grand child and you're pondering getting a divorce from the father of your child because of it. The only weird behavior evidenced in this thread is your own. Get a grip. You seem to have some sort of postpartum related problem. See a counselor.
    I appreciate your opinion... but what do you want to achieve by saying that? If I am oversensitive, which is probably true, do you think you'll help? Or do you want to make me feel worse.

    Do you have children?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ver View Post
    I appreciate your opinion... but what do you want to achieve by saying that? If I am oversensitive, which is probably true, do you think you'll help? Or do you want to make me feel worse.

    Do you have children?

    Umm... Someone has to tell you that you're being totally irrational. Evidently your husband and everyone on this forum are too nice to tell you.

    No, I don't have children. And that's not even remotely relevant. We're talking about a child spending time with her grandmother who, as primary school teacher and mother herself, has a lot of experience with small children.
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    In my first post I asked how to deal with my feelings. Thank you for being so honest but... I would never say sth like this to a person who has these kind of issues. I've never hurt my MIL nor have I said anything to make her feel bad. Moreover. even when she was taking the baby away I didn't stop her from doing that. When she visits us, I clean the house and I prepare food for them. I buy them gifts and whenever she asks me to do sth for her, I do it.
    IDK but if I'm oversensitive, you are a very insensitive person. Maybe you don't realize but it's the internet, you never know who is on the other side. Maybe this person is really suffering form depression and, after one or two posts like this, will commit suicide. Of course I'm not going to but please bear this in mind.
    To clarify:
    She's primary school director - not teacher - that's my mistake.
    It's very relevant if you have children or not. Everyone tells you that but you understand only when your own children are born: everything changes. They way you look at the world, your relationship, everything.
    This is one of the reasons I decided not to post here before. On one hand some people are wonderful, they want to cheer you up and bring peace. There's so much warmth.
    But there are others who just want to let their aggression out and they don't care about the people they don't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ver View Post
    In my first post I asked how to deal with my feelings. Thank you for being so honest but... I would never say sth like this to a person who has these kind of issues. I've never hurt my MIL nor have I said anything to make her feel bad. Moreover. even when she was taking the baby away I didn't stop her from doing that. When she visits us, I clean the house and I prepare food for them. I buy them gifts and whenever she asks me to do sth for her, I do it.
    IDK but if I'm oversensitive, you are a very insensitive person. Maybe you don't realize but it's the internet, you never know who is on the other side. Maybe this person is really suffering form depression and, after one or two posts like this, will commit suicide. Of course I'm not going to but please bear this in mind.
    To clarify:
    She's primary school director - not teacher - that's my mistake.
    It's very relevant if you have children or not. Everyone tells you that but you understand only when your own children are born: everything changes. They way you look at the world, your relationship, everything.
    This is one of the reasons I decided not to post here before. On one hand some people are wonderful, they want to cheer you up and bring peace. There's so much warmth.
    But there are others who just want to let their aggression out and they don't care about the people they don't know.
    Your primary question was how to deal with "the situation" and there is no situation, at least not with your mother in law. I'm telling you that the problem in this equation is you. If you genuinely feel the way you are describing about your mother in law paying attention to your child you have something going on -- probably chemically, and you need to see a doctor. Your feelings aren't normal. You need to talk to someone objective to help you understand this and cope with it.

    I'm glad you're nice to your mother in law. From everything you say it looks like she's nice to you and your daughter as well. Awesome. That means you just have to deal with feeling insecure about her role on your baby's life. Also: if she's the director of a primary school I assume she has at least a masters or equivalent in education or child development. I'm sure she does just fine with the baby.

    I'm not trying to be mean to you. I'm just being honest. Your feelings don't seem normal at all. If you really feel uncomfortable with your mother in law sit her down and have a heart to heart like an adult. You'll get a clearer sense of her intentions and an opportunity to tell her your concerns. It will also give you a chance to think about what your concerns really are. But seriously, see a doctor.

    My language was too harsh. There isn't anything to be ashamed of, or really anything for me to be critical of, and I wasn't actually trying to. My language can be very blunt sometimes, and I was genuinely freaked out by your lack of objectivity. Weird shit happens to hormones during pregnancy and as a consequence, emotions postpartum.

    For what it's worth I absolutely don't think having children would change my perspective on this situation. That's a blindingly silly argument. I realize that strong emotions are involved in raising children.
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    Would it be at all possible for you to (mentally) schedule in some 'baby holding time' for your MIL in a way that would be helpful for you? What I mean is, every time you go out to lunch, ask her if she would like to hold the baby while you eat, and then give her the baby. She will learn that she will be able to hold the baby without needing to grab her at every opportunity, so might relax a little. You can also use your MIL's willingness to help while you run errands or do chores (ahahaha, yeah, IEE + chores, ahem). Or at the very least, be able to enjoy a meal sans baby in your lap.

    Also, it's totally okay to tell her how you feel when she takes the baby from you without asking. Just say, "MIL, I understand that you love Baby very much, and it's really lovely to see that you want to hold her a lot and give me a break. However, I have to admit that I feel quite uncomfortable when you take her from me without asking. I'm really happy for you to hold her, but I really want you to ask me first. Would that be okay? *big smile*" And then reward MIL for the first few times she asks by giving bub to her without much fuss. Also, if you don't like her taking the baby next door, you need to let her know.

    This kind of thing can be smoothed over as long as you don't let it build to a level where you can't stand it anymore. And if bub is upset from separation anxiety when MIL takes her, then it's okay to take her back... let MIL know it's separation anxiety, and it's a phase that will be over soon, but in the meantime, bub just wants to be with you.

    And also, I found with my MIL, asking her for help or advice in areas where she is really capable will allow her to demonstrate her prowess, and make her feel valued. Sometimes it's a way to take back control (for yourself)--she will always be pushy, but you can dictate the direction in which she pushes to areas where she will be helpful rather than annoying. So ask her for advice! Respond with nods and smiles and non-committal "Oh really? How interesting! So that's the way you did it." Ask her about her past. Let her wax on about her accomplishments.

    And finally, I know it's unimaginable now, but there will come a day when MIL will appear like a heavenly angel on beams of light when she comes to give you a break from the baby. At that stage your baby will more likely resemble a toddler, your house will resemble a junk yard and your mind will resemble a plate of scrambled eggs. Trust me, I did not think the day would come, but I love how my toddler loves his grandma, and I love how she plays with him, and I love how I get a blessed, blessed break from it all! (And I love my son to bits!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    Your primary question was how to deal with "the situation" and there is no situation, at least not with your mother in law. I'm telling you that the problem in this equation is you.
    I disagree. If someone kept coming over while you were working on your laptop, and kept taking it away without asking, I'm guessing you would be at least a little put off. OP doesn't have a problem with giving the baby to the MIL, she is unhappy because MIL is not exercising the basic human decency of asking first before she takes something away. I think that perspective is worth considering before suggesting that OP is suffering from a mental disturbance.

    Back to Ver: As an aside, I just had a read upthread and much prefer the way Eliza Thomason phrases her requests.. be punch-direct... ESFps speak that language and can take it. So if she goes to take the baby off you without asking, look her in her eyes and say, "Could you please just ask first or check with me next time you want the baby? Thanks." If she ignores your request, I suggest taking her handbag without asking next time she comes over, and taking her lipstick because you want to 'show it to a friend'.
    Last edited by Misty; 12-06-2014 at 11:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty View Post
    I disagree. If someone kept coming over while you were working on your laptop, and kept taking it away without asking, I'm guessing you would be at least a little put off. OP doesn't have a problem with giving the baby to the MIL, she is unhappy because MIL is not exercising the basic human decency of asking first before she takes something away. I think that perspective is worth considering before suggesting that OP is suffering from a mental disturbance.

    Back to Ver: As an aside, I just had a read upthread and much prefer the way Eliza Thomason phrases her requests.. be punch-direct... ESFps speak that language and can take it. So if she goes to take the baby off you without asking, look her in her eyes and say, "Could you please just ask first next time you want the baby? Thanks." If she ignores your request, I suggest taking her handbag without asking next time she comes over, and taking her lipstick because you want to 'show it to a friend'.
    A laptop is an inanimate object. And one does not /work/ on a child. Not really an apt comparison. It's also very difficult to simply snatch a child from someone's arms. It has to involve some degree of giving. I doubt the mother in law is pulling the baby out of her arms. If Ver doesn't want to hand the kid over she should simply speak up. And frankly, she doesn't seem too keen on letting the mother in law hold the baby, given that she gets upset when she holds it when she isn't even present.
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    Yeah, I knew the laptop wasn't the best example, but I don't know anything about you except that you're likely on this forum through a laptop (or possibly mobile phone?). So for a better example: if Ver's MIL came over and snatched your velociraptor from your loving Jesus arms, you might be pissed off about it, but then again, you might be okay with it, being Jesus and all. Anyway, the point was more that it's okay and normal to feel pissed off when someone just grabs (or even attempts to grab) something without asking... and then keeps doing it over and over. Most of us would nip that in the bud with a frosty glare or an, "Excuse me, what do you think you're doing?", but I figure that Ver, possibly due to past experiences, doesn't know that's an option. So yeah, I'm saying it's okay for Ver to feel as she does, and I also agree that Ver's best option is to simply speak up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    I think you're way off base, but I'm putting in the effort to type out a detailed response to at least explain my perspective in hopes it will make sense:

    From this first part I quoted, I got the impression from Ver that the problem was her mother-in-law taking the child away without asking for permission or anything first. It has nothing to do with issues with letting others hold the child. I got the impression she lets others hold the child, but she doesn't like it when the child is taken from her without her knowing about it, or having asked permission first.



    A lot of things are wrong. Taking a child from a mother against her own will is horrible. It's not just in humans but common among the animal kingdom for mothers/father to protect newborn children at all costs, even from other family members who unwarrantedly approach the child.

    For example, check out this video where other chimps try to take the babies away from the mother unasked for, and how much effort the mother puts into fleeing, even getting hit herself, in order to try to protect her babies:



    That's an extreme example where they are being attacked. But consider how much love even other species can have for newborns in this video, where a doberman protects a baby from another dog, even when there's no threat of danger:



    And I could find other examples but I hope you get the point. Being protective of her child and not wanting someone to simply take her baby without asking is a valid feeling and demand.



    First, if the mother-in-law was really trying to be a good grandmother, she would at least ask to hold the baby before just taking it away. It's good she wants to spend time with the baby, but she's being incredibly disrespectful towards the mother's boundaries. Taking a child away while the mother is in the shower, to show to the neighbors, creates a scary situation for no reason. The mother comes out of the shower to find her child missing with no clue where they are.

    Second, not sure where you came to the conclusion that Ver was considering a divorce. It was suggested by consentingadult and I suggested it, but nowhere really did I see Ver acknowledge that she was really considering it.

    Third, it's quite a stretch to suggest seeing a counselor to someone or call them a "pussy", simply because you don't understand or relate to their feelings or situation.



    Actually, I think it's incredibly relevant that you don't have children yourself. You're making the accusation against a mother that she's "fucking insane" because her love for her child is too much in your eyes, when you have never personally had that bond with your own child. You never had the love for your own child overwhelm you to a point where you care for everything about them and very little about yourself. You have never had the scare to know what it's like to find your child, your beloved baby, is suddenly missing, and you have no clue where they are.

    All of these feelings are incredibly relevant and human. And you dare suggest to Ver that she sees a counselor because she's insane? I find that appalling. You are operating way outside of your element, Scapegrace, without much credibility as a mother yourself.

    Just because you don't truly understand someone else's perspective, does not mean that the other person is a "pussy" or "insane" or "out of whack" or "oversensitive". You should really think twice before judging and making assumptions about someone going through an experience that you've never personally dealt with before.



    As I've explained, there is nothing wrong with her feelings. Even if there were, the manner in which you decided to put down someone else's feelings is rather questionable. And when is it really good to tell someone what they're FEELING is wrong?

    Don't make me link more animal videos. I can link a lot more of them!



    Lol. This is just so naive it's laughable. When people have their 1st-born child, it always changes them. Often in ways they didn't expect. You're an idiot for not just judging someone in something you have absolutely no experience in, but actually putting them down and trying to make them feel bad enough emotionally so they go see a 'counselor' or 'doctor'. That's vicious, cynical, and above all retarded.
    a.) She is not a doberman or a bonobo. She is a fucking grown ass human woman, and she does not have to hand the kid over. She can simply say "NOT RIGHT NOW." What is she? A fucking eight year old child too scared to speak up for herself? The grandmother is not PRYING the kid out of her hands. She's getting pissed about the grandmother HOLDING THE CHILD WHILE SHE'S OTHERWISE OCCUPIED IN THE SHOWER, OR CLEANING HER HOUSE. There is no excuse for that. It's controlling, neurotic, and unhealthy.

    b.) How should the grandmother know that Ver is neurotic about having her baby held? Having relatives take your kid and pay attention to it is completely common place. I myself have taken infant and toddler cousins from their parents without asking and have yet to see any of them get upset, because they're not fucking insane. It's generally a non verbal exchange that involves me walking up to said relatives and putting my arms out to for the baby and them handing it over. AND GUESS WHAT? SOMETIMES THEY SAY "NOT RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE BLAH BLAH BLAH" LIKE FUCKING ADULTS. And then I hold the baby later because I'm also an adult and that's how adult human beings function.

    c.) I'm making the "divorce assumption" because she's the one who said this: "split up sometimes comes to my mind, this relationship changed so much since I got pregnant... but I hope it'll be better."

    d.) You're a pansy ass bitch. That's basically all I have to say to your BUT UR NOT A MOMMY SPIEL. You're a fucking weirdo with a pregnant woman fetish and you're overly emotionally involved in this conversation.

    e.) I'm suggesting she see a counselor because postpartum mood disorders affect 50% of women. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and if you're having such a huge emotional crisis about someone holding your baby without asking you need to be concerned that you might be experiencing PPMD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    a.) She is not a doberman or a bonobo. She is a fucking grown ass human woman, and she does not have to hand the kid over. She can simply say "NOT RIGHT NOW." What is she? A fucking eight year old child too scared to speak up for herself? The grandmother is not PRYING the kid out of her hands. She's getting pissed about the grandmother HOLDING THE CHILD WHILE SHE'S OTHERWISE OCCUPIED IN THE SHOWER, OR CLEANING HER HOUSE. There is no excuse for that. It's controlling, neurotic, and unhealthy.

    b.) How should the grandmother know that Ver is neurotic about having her baby held? Having relatives take your kid and pay attention to it is completely common place. I myself have taken infant and toddler cousins from their parents without asking and have yet to see any of them get upset, because they're not fucking insane. It's generally a non verbal exchange that involves me walking up to said relatives and putting my arms out to for the baby and them handing it over. AND GUESS WHAT? SOMETIMES THEY SAY "NOT RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE BLAH BLAH BLAH" LIKE FUCKING ADULTS. And then I hold the baby later because I'm also an adult and that's how adult human beings function.

    c.) I'm making the "divorce assumption" because she's the one who said this: "split up sometimes comes to my mind, this relationship changed so much since I got pregnant... but I hope it'll be better."

    d.) You're a pansy ass bitch. That's basically all I have to say to your BUT UR NOT A MOMMY SPIEL. You're a fucking weirdo with a pregnant woman fetish and you're overly emotionally involved in this conversation.

    e.) I'm suggesting she see a counselor because postpartum mood disorders affect 50% of women. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and if you're having such a huge emotional crisis about someone holding your baby without asking you need to be concerned that you might be experiencing PPMD.
    So you do have a brain ...
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

  38. #38
    darya's Avatar
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    Thanks for educating us on animal behaviour and mother's holy love William

    I fail to see a problem with the mother in law's behaviour. She sounds loving, caring and like she enjoys helping you with your kid. There are worse things I can think off. And hating her for this? Wow. You can always raise a voice when you don't like your kid taken away from you - like a grown-up.

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    Tell her not to take her without asking. You don't have to be a martyr.

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    Ok, I wanted to add that I do understand how it can be annoying if she's following you around all the time, but that's just what old people do. She's just so excited about the kid, most of grandmas are like that. And be very happy she aint one of the evil mothers in law, they're more common than not. Set boundaries politely but firmly and you won't have this problem any more.

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