sx/so 5
sx/so 5
(Too ripped for the average five if you ask me wink wink)
5w6 SP/SX. Man. These people are incredible.
Who cares about the avarage?Originally Posted by Chae
(Too ripped for the average five if you ask me wink wink)
5 disintegrating into 6.
Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd
also 4.. depends on how you look at it.
https://youtu.be/LtSNzPyo0lA
This always gives a more of 5w4 sp/sx vibe, Pinocchio-P works in general have this vibe.
My face, the face of a 5, only a mother could love it.
IMG_20170417_171707.jpg
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
@Pole Hhhuuushhh you're undeniably cute
Haha thank you chae@Pole Hhhuuushhh you're undeniably cute
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
This is gold.Udith Patel:
Fives grow by recognizing that real confidence lies not simply in intellectual mastery but in putting themselves out into the world. Fives usually derive their confidence through the development of their minds, but they really need to bring balance to their psyches by developing a deeper relationship with their bodies and feelings. Growth for a Five requires allowing themselves to see how estranged they are from their actual living selves and acknowledging all of the deep needs that they have denied since early childhood. Fives actually feel things deeply, but they are extremely restrained in their ability to express their feelings. Developing trust of others, sharing what they are experiencing, and identifying with their feelings are all crucial for them to blossom fully as human beings. All of this becomes much easier when Fives are grounded in their bodies.
And this also shows how obsessing over the theory of Socionics can keep a 5 (fix or core) trapped at average to unhealthy levels... ^^'
@End, I think this advice could be helpful for you, too...
Feeling things very strongly yet being inept at expressing those feelings to others is kinda part ofbeing where/what it is for ILI's. It's enslaved to
and thus why we seem so cold. It's hard to imagine "feelings" being a driving factor behind cold, ruthless, robotic pragmatism for most people but that's what is going on. We wouldn't be so damned cold and "heartless" if we didn't feel so strongly that something *must* be done. We most likely don't like that fact but the fact is *someone* must do it and, well, that's kinda the job of the leader/introvert to do what others do not want to. It is, after all, why they chose to follow you to begin with. They all knew, subconsciously, that when shit got really fucking real you'd volunteer to be the "bastard" in the history books. Every fucking Alpha asshole conflictor'd curse your name, but your minions would remember the truth and that was enough for your
Point is yeah, I get that I really, really, focused too hard on my intellect but I say someone had to. I can "get" feelings from my dual when I meet her and I've always been pretty good with knowing what my body wants. Weakaside I've always been comfortable following my cravings in regards to food. I eat what I crave and I'm both thin and fit. Not "swole" yet but you bet your ass I'm working on that one. Gotta get strong for I fear/know that the Helicopters are upon us and that if I ain't strong enough looking...
Last edited by End; 04-27-2017 at 05:41 AM.
God, loved that game. Would highly recommend to this community of psychoanalytical nerds, y'all'd love it, especially the later levels.
Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd
Whole Cicada3301 thing is very 5, imo. From puzzle solving, cryptology, placing utmost importance to anonymousity and distrust to authority figures/wanting to keep themselves hidden, to their "sacred book" Prime Liber (Some of it has been decrypted and the website which had the pages is not working now, so here is the archive link: http://web.archive.org/web/201605281...301.org/liber/ Keep in mind that rest of the pages or website itself has no connection to Cicada3301, but it is best place to check for translated pages as forum-searching takes longer. Translation of a few pages there is same with letter-to-letter with what was shared on decoding forum.)
To quote the first message they shared on 4chan:
"Hello. We are looking for highly intelligent individuals. To find them, we have devised a test. There is a message hidden in the image. Find it, and it will lead you on the road to finding us. We look forward to meeting the few who will make it all the way through. Good luck. 3301"
A few (actually almost all decrypted) parts from Liber Primus:
I am quite fascinated by this whole thing actually, because while the linked cicada3301.org tries to make it sound like some sort of "übermensch" thing, I see it more as... something like sp/sx 5w4s reaching for similar people to themselves? Or something like that. Whatever it is, it doesn't sound like some sort of evil organization to me, and something that got blown out of proportion at some point rather than a huge world-wiping plot. Or well, who knowsWe could all use some tinfoil hats
Also, for more information on what little is known, there is a google doc from the freenode chat:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...RCgl5MXY/edit#
Or maybe not that innocent group of people as even the current wiki page seems to have some low key "followers" vibe to them, still gonna low key keep observing everything they uncover tho.
Last edited by ApeironStella; 04-29-2017 at 04:22 PM.
5/6
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I am reading this book for a translation project right now, and it is pretty much (wish-fullfilment story for/) story of a 5w4 LII with most likely his ESE wife.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...e-of-knowledge
Raven from Teen Titans. Let's see... has to control her emotions and hide everything from everyone to avoid destroying the world. Yeah, that might make a 5w4.
Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd
5s throwing shade be like
(can also apply to 3 and 1)
lol is that real
and if so where can I get some
although I guess I could get the real thing, axe, if I want it that bad
Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd
Fives are members of the Thinking Triad. Their potential problem results from the fact that they emphasize thinking over doing, becoming intensely involved with their thoughts. Fives think so much that their mental world becomes all-en-grossing, virtually to the exclusion of everything else. This is not to say that Fives do nothing at all, but that they are more at home in their minds, viewing the world from a detached vantage points, than they are in the world of action.. . . Further, they feel powerless to defend themselves against the world's many dangers: they believe they are not capable of functioning as well as others and so make it their number one priority to acquire the skills and knowledge they feel are necessary for them to be able to operate adequately in life. Their Basic Fear, of being helpless and incapable, influences their behavior in significant ways. Fives believe that their personal resources and capacities are limited, so they respond to their anxiety by downscaling their activities and needs. . . .. . . Naturally, given this orientation, Fives feel easily overwhelmed by other's needs as well, and try to avoid situations in which others will expect more from them than they feel able to give. As their fears increase, Fives begin to "shrink away" from the world and from connections with others.– Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Richard Riso, Russ HudsonThe move to Seven can be seen as an unconscious reaction to this shrinking of the Five's world, albeit in the scattered, hyperactive discharge of anxiety found in the average to unhealthy Seven. At Level 4, Fives are focusing their energies in studying, practicing, and preparing. They do not feel confident to enter the arena of life and believe that further developing their knowledge and skills will give them the protection they need to survive. Along with this, however, comes a desire for variety and a restlessness of mind characteristic of type Seven. . . . They move from one topic to another, looking for the subject that will satisfy them, for the project they can really get involved with. But in this state of restlessness, none of their pursuits are entirely satisfactory to them.
– Tom Condon. . .
As we shift from Enneagram style Four to style Five, we move out of the realm of image-matching and role-playing and enter the trio of Enneagram styles that is unconsciously grounded in fear. Unlike Twos, Threes and Fours, Fives, Sixes and Sevens are not confused about who they are or how they feel, but rather tend to unconsciously anticipate life’s dangers. They struggle with taking action, asserting their wills and comfortably wielding power.
A Five’s fears are specifically social in that Fives habitually guard against being invaded or engulfed by others. They often do this by living in a world of their own and taking refuge in a cauterized objectivity that protects them from their emotional shadows, what one Five called “a fortress of the clear and evident.” Unlike Fours, who inhabit their sensory-rich emotional imaginations, Fives are generally drier, thinkers who live in their minds more than their feelings.
Healthy Fives often have well-developed abilities to acquire and synthesize knowledge. Life long learners, they stay interested and mentally alive into old age. Fives can be perceptive, wise and objective; able to stay calm and rational when others around them are panicked or confused. At their best, they strike a balance between interacting with the world and withdrawing from it. Style Five is associated with knowledgeable competence and, sometimes, intellectual genius.
Many Fives live by the Latin motto, “Scientia Est Potentia” – “Knowledge is Power.” Healthy Fives express this actively, offering the fruits of their interests and research to the world. Teaching and writing are frequent occupations but whatever they do, healthy Fives seem to insist that their talent for learning count for something beyond itself. There is an idealistic quality to this drive that makes them willing contributors to a larger good. Fives can also be dependable, behind-the-scenes partners who avoid the limelight but who anchor and vitalize a group effort.
When healthy, Fives specialize in what the Buddhists call “non-attachment”, an attitude towards living characterized by a paradoxical mixture of compassion and detachment. Fives can play life’s games without being attached to the results. They participate fully in events and yet don’t take them personally, striving without malice and surrendering with grace. One Five described the experience of non-attachment as “just like everyday life but lived two feet off the ground.” Author Thomas Mann, himself a Five, called the experience “erotic irony” implying both earthiness and detachment.
. . .
Castles and prisons are structurally identical. Both have high walls, are surrounded by moats and tend to be located in high places difficult to reach. The main difference between them is that castles are designed to keep people out while prisons keep people in. When Fives are less healthy they live in mental fortresses that sometimes imprison them in a defensive isolation.
Defensive Fives can be explicitly antisocial and manage their fears by backing away from others. They generally fear close relationship as intimacy can lead to feeling overwhelmed, smothered or swarmed.
. . .
When Fives are less healthy their non-attachment devolves into its mundane cousin – dissociation, the state of being cut off from feelings. Dissociation usually means thinking in words and pictures but without emotion or body sensations. While we all dissociate from some aspects of our experience, Fives practice it as a general defense, often to protect themselves from overwhelm. “I’ve always had a hard time forming relationships with others,” a Five says. “To me, a relationship consists primarily of emotions, and emotions are frightening to me. I like things to be very cut-and-dry. It makes them easy to analyze and predict. But emotions are a foreign realm. I can never predict them. I have a lot of anxiety around others about what they’re feeling, so I try to stay removed and objective.”
Less healthy Fives worship gods of reason and look distantly down on their own emotions. This can translate into a superior-arrogant attitude towards others. As one Five says, “Personality traits such as withdrawing, and acting cold and aloof have caused me problems. People seem to get the impression that I’m a snob, or even worse, weird. Of course, my close friends and family know the ‘real’ me but I seem to find it hard to make new friends. Being put in a situation where there are many new faces is quite frightening and overwhelming.”
In person, Fives can seem like withdrawn observers, as if they are standing behind themselves, avoiding direct contact. A Five might have a quality of being three inches back behind his own eyes, watching you from a distance, looking at you through a pane of thick glass.
You might sense this distance and see it as a sign of self-possession or independence. What you may not know is that the Five’s removed stance is compensatory; in truth, he is hypersensitive. Like Roderick Usher, the Edgar Allen Poe character, who was so sensitive that the sound of a falling feather could drive him insane, the Five could feel vulnerable to your influence, be keenly aware of your possible expectations or needs and anticipate being powerless to resist them.
By keeping his distance and acting self-sufficient, the Five is saying a blanket “no.” An excessive boundary is compensating for a weak one. A Five novelist explains: “I protect my own tendency to be affected too much by other people’s opinions. For instance, I never discuss a work-in-progress with the people in my life, even my best friend, because I know how easily influenced I am. I’m afraid I’ll be led astray from my own instincts. So I go overboard to protect them.”
Unhealthy Fives unconsciously believe that the world is socially non-negotiable, so they passively wait for others to act instead of taking the initiative. One Five says, “It’s like I have all this specialized knowledge and I’m ready, willing and able to give it to anybody who wants it. But they have to tell me they want it. If they don’t ask me a question, then I think they’re not interested. So I keep my mouth shut.”
. . .
Deeply unhealthy Fives can become schizoid and unpredictable, as though dissociated parts of them are taking turns talking. They can project an absent, vaguely shocked aura or be pointedly antisocial. A Five could sit through a party and say nothing – and later claim that he had a good time – or maybe alienate others with nasty, sneering commentary. Some Fives can be tactless and rude, demonstrating a cold lack of sympathy and an anger that comes out through aggressive acquisitiveness, passive-aggression or snide sarcasm.
Very unhealthy Fives can retreat into a delusional self-made world, losing touch with reality, prone to hallucinations, developing weird phobias of invisible objects like germs. They might take action in a fitful, sporadic way and for strange, hard-to-understand reasons. Aggressive episodes are also possible, prompted or followed by bursts of acute paranoia.
Type 5 vs Type 1
– Claudio Naranjo, Character and Neurosis: An Integrative View. . .
If the gesture of anger is to run over, that of avarice is one of holding back and holding in. While anger expresses greed in an assertive (even though unacknowledged) way, greed in avarice manifests only through retentiveness. This is a fearful grasping, implying a fantasy that letting go would result in catastrophic depletion. Behind the hoarding impulse there is, we may say, an experience of impending impoverishment.
Yet, holding on is only half of ennea-type V psychology; the other half is giving up too easily. Because of an excessive resignation in regard to love and people, precisely, there is a compensatory clutching at oneself – which may or not manifest in a grasping onto possessions, but involves a much more generalized hold over one's inner life as well as an economy of effort and resources. The holding back and self-control of avarice is not unlike that of the anger type, yet it is accompanied by a getting stuck through clutching at the present without openness to the emerging future.
Just as it can be said of the wrathful that they are mostly unconscious of their anger and that anger is their main taboo-it may be said of the avaricious that their avarice is mostly unconscious, while consciously they may feel every gesture of possession and drawing up of boundaries as forbidden. It might be said that the avaricious is internally perfectionistic rather than critical of the outer world, but most importantly the difference between the two ennea-types [I and V] lies in the contrast between the active extroversion of the former and the introversion of the latter, (the introversion of a thinking type that avoids action).
Also ennea-type I is demanding while ennea-type V seeks to minimize his own needs and claims, and is prone to be pushed around in virtue of a compulsive obedience. Though both types are characterized by a strong super-ego, they are like cops and robbers respectively, for the former identifies more with its idealized superego-congruent self, while ennea-type V identifies with the overwhelmed and guilty sub-personality that is the object of super-egoic demands.
The polarity between pathological detachment and the attachment of holding-on echoes the polarity in ennea-type I between anger and an over-civilized compulsive virtue. Neediness in ennea-type V is deeply hidden in the psyche, behind the veil of indifference, resignation, stoic renunciation. And just as perfectionism nurtures the anger that sustains it, we may also say here that the prohibition of needs (not simply from their satisfaction but even from their recognition within the psyche) must contribute to the impoverishment of life that underlies the urge to hold on.
Ichazo's word for the fixation corresponding- to ennea- type V is "stinginess," which stands, I think, too close to "avarice" - the ruling passion or emotion. "Meanness" with its connotation of an unknowing failure to give would come closer to capturing the dominant aspect of the ennea-type V strategy in face of the world: self-distancing and the giving up of relationships. Still better, however, is to speak of being detached, withdrawn, autistic, and schizoid.
Key Traits of 5
According to Naranjo (Character and Neurosis: An Integrative View),
the key traits of the Type 5 are:
• Retentiveness
• Not GivingAs usual, it is possible to find in this character a cluster of descriptors corresponding to the dominant passion. In it, along with avarice, belong such characteristics as lack of generosity in matters of money, energy and time, and also meanness-with its implication of an insensitivity to the needs of others.
• Pathological DetachmentAlso the avoidance of commitment can be considered as an expression of not giving since it amounts to an avoidance of giving in the future. In this avoidance of commitment, however, there is also another aspect: the need of type V individuals to be completely free, unbound, unobstructed, in possession of the fullness of themselves-a trait representing a composite of avarice and an over-sensitivity to engulfment.
• Fear of engulfmentGiven the reciprocity of giving and taking in human relationships, a compulsion to not give (surely the echo of perceiving in early life that it goes against survival to give more than is received) can hardly be sustained except at the expense of relationship itself-as if the individual considered: "If the only way to hold on to the little I have is to distance myself from others and their needs or wants, that is what I will do."
An aspect of pathological detachment is the characteristic aloofness of ennea-type V; another, the quality of being a "loner," i.e., one accustomed to being solitary and who, out of resignation in regard to relating, does not feel particularly lonely. Seclusiveness is, of course, part of the broader trait of detachment, since it requires emotional detachment and repression of the need to relate, to be in isolation. The difficulty that type V individuals have in making friends may be considered also here, for an important aspect of this difficulty is the lack of motivation to relate.
• AutonomyThe fear and avoidance of being "swallowed up by others" might be a corollary of the avoidance of relationships, yet not only this, for it is also the expression of a half-conscious perception of one's own suppressed need to relate, and (as Fairbairn has emphasized) a fear of potential dependency.
• FeelinglessnessOne who cannot get to others to satisfy his desires needs to build up his resources, stocking them up, so to speak, inside his ivory tower. Closely related to autonomy and yet a trait on its own is the idealization of autonomy which reinforces the repression of desires and underlies a life philosophy much like that which Hesse puts in Siddhartha's mouth: "I can think, I can wait, I can fast."
• Postponement of ActionThough I have already alluded to a repression of needs, and mentioned the suppression of anger of ennea-type V, it seems desirable to group these descriptors along with others in a more generalized trait of feelinglessness. It has to do with the loss of awareness of feelings and even an interference with the generation of feeling, which results from the avoidance of expression and action. This characteristic makes some individuals indifferent, cold, unempathic, and apathetic.
• Sense of emptinessOne who wants to keep his intentions hidden (as the avaricious typically does) will also inhibit his activity on these grounds and develop, instead of a spontaneous movement and initiative, an excessive restraint. The characteristic trait of procrastination may be regarded as a hybrid between negativism and the avoidance of action.
• GuiltNaturally, the suppression of feelings and the avoidance of life (in the interest of avoiding feelings) constitutes the avoidance of action along with an objective impoverishment of experience. We may understand the sense of sterility, depletion, and meaninglessness that are typical of type V as the result of an objective impoverishment in the life of relatedness, feeling, and doing.
• NegativismEnnea-type V (along with type IV, at the bottom of the enneagram) is characterized by guilt proneness-even though in type IV, it is more intensely felt-"buffered" by a generalized distancing from feelings.
Guilt manifests in a vague sense of inferiority, however, in a vulnerability to intimidation, in a sense of awkwardness and self-consciousness, and, most typically, in the very characteristic hiddenness of the person. Though guilt can be understood in light of the strong superego of type V, I believe that it is also a consequence of the early implicit decision of the person to withdraw love (as a response to the lovelessness of the outer world). The cold detachment of type V may thus be regarded as an equivalent to the anger of the vindictive type VIII, who sets out to go it alone and fights for his needs in a hostile world. His moving away from people is an equivalent to moving against, as if, in the impossibility to express anger, he annihilated the other in his inner world. In embracing an attitude of loveless disregard, he thus feels a guilt that is not only comparable to that of the tough-minded bully, but more "visible" since in the bully it is defensively denied, while here it manifests as a pervasive and Kafkaesque guilt proneness.
A source trait related to the perception of the needs of others as binding, and also a form of rebellion against one's own (superegoic) demands, is that which involves, beyond an avoidance of interference or influence, a wish to subvert the perceived demands of others and of oneself. Here we can see again a factor underlying the characteristic postponement of action, for sometimes this involves a wish not to do that which is perceived as a should, a wish not to "give" something requested or expected, even when the source of the request is internal rather than societal. A manifestation of such negativism is that anything that the individual chooses to do on the basis of true desire is likely to become, once an explicit project, a "should" that evokes a loss of motivation through internal rebellion.
• Hypersensitivity
Though we have surveyed the insensitive aspect of type V, we also need to include its characteristic hypersensitivity, manifest in traits ranging from a low tolerance of pain to fear of rejection.
It is my impression that this trait is more basic ( in the sense of being psychodynamically fundamental) than that of feelinglessness and that, as Kretschmer20 has proposed, emotional dullness sets in precisely as a defense against the hypersensitive characteristic. The hypersensitive characteristic of ennea-type V involves a sense of weakness, a vulnerability and also a sensitivity in dealing with the world of objects and even persons. To the extent that the individual is not autistically disconnected from the perception of others, he is gentle, soft and harmless. Even in his dealing with the inanimate environment this is true: he does not want to disturb the way things are; he would like, so to speak, to walk without harming the grass on which he treads. Though this hypersensitive characteristic may be ascribed, together with the cognitive orientation and introversive moving away from people, to the cerebrotonic background of the type, we can also understand it as partly derived from the experience of half-conscious psychological pain: the pain of guilt, the pain of unacknowledged loneliness, the pain of emptiness. It seems to me that an individual who feels full and substantial can stand more pain than one who feels empty.
Cognitive Orientation:
Ennea-type V is not only introversive (as is implied in moving away from relationships) but also typically intellectual (as introverts generally tend to be). Through a predominantly cognitive orientation the individual may seek substitute satisfaction-as in the replacement of living through reading. Yet the symbolic replacement of life is not the only form of expression of intense thinking activity: another aspect is the preparation for life-a preparation that is intense to the extent that the individual never feels ready enough. In the elaboration of perceptions as preparation for (inhibited) action, the activity of abstraction is particularly striking, type V individuals lean towards the activity of classification and organization, and not only display a strong attraction towards the process of ordering experience, but tend to dwell in abstractions while at the same time avoiding concreteness. This avoidance of concreteness, in turn, is linked to the type's hiddenness: only the results of one's perceptions are offered to the world, not its raw material.
Related to abstraction and the organization of experience is an interest in science and a curiosity in regard to knowledge. Also the inhibition of feelings and of action, along with the emphasis of cognition gives rise to the characteristic of being a mere witness of life, a non-attached yet keen observer of it, who in this very keenness seems to be seeking to replace life through its understanding.
Enneagram sounds like some weird psychoanalytic BS this way. I also can't fathom how someone could have 3 to 6 types in this model.
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