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Thread: Enneagram type 5: all things Five

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    Default Enneagram type 5: all things Five

    for quotes, pictures, music, interviews and more pertaining to type 5


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    5w4







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    Poetry is not a turning loose of emotion, but an escape from emotion; it is not the expression of personality, but an escape from personality. But, of course, only those who have personality and emotions know what it means to escape from these things.

    All significant truths are private truths. As they become public, they cease to become truths, they become facts, or at best, part of the public character, or at worst, catchwords.


    T.S. Eliot

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    If I had to find musical pieces representative for E5, I would choose something like the one below:







    I don't know why Chopin is constantly listed as the quintessential E5 musician. I find his music nauseating and soaked in emotion ...his is not a detached-cerebral and intellectualized approach to music.

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    Braque


    Last edited by Amber; 11-24-2014 at 08:09 PM.

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    Enkel Dika - Extraordinary Observer







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    E5 "integrating" to 8
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Giger is 5w4 (+sp/sx)









    Last edited by Amber; 11-25-2014 at 04:22 AM.

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    “You call me a misanthrope because I avoid society. You err; I love society. Yet in order not to hate people, I must avoid their company.”
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Smooth operator. Behavioral scientists jizz their pants when they meet five's.
    Last edited by Remiel; 01-28-2017 at 10:30 PM. Reason: typo
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ― Thucydides

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    Beware of the biting irony of a quintessential E 5 : he'll try to blind you with Grammar before sweeping you off your feet. (yes, this is intentionally non-pc)

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    I like a lot of images like the ones posted in this thread, which is probably why I got ILI on @Olga's test.

    I love Giger, now, but it was an acquired taste. <3

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    I saw this movie and it actually really disturbed and kind of scared me, at that time. Not as bad as "The Exorcist" (which I will never watch again). I have been thinking of watching it again, a lot, lately because I think I totally misunderstood it the first time, since I was viewing it from the perspective, of another belief system, I was holding to then. Maybe I will watch it tonight. Weird sync, since it has been on mind and not a movie I see posted often, anywhere.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I saw this movie and it actually really disturbed and kind of scared me, at that time.
    me too. i was in my teens when i first saw it and it horrified and scared the shit out of me. i couldn't get the images out of my mind for a while. sometimes with horror-ish films i zero in on the solid/rock-like character to carry me through the film--fishburne's character in this case, as out of all of them he defeats the fear & horror in his mind. so when i watched it again i just refocused on his character if the film was starting to get to me. listening to the commentary helped too because the kind of detached and even humorous way the director looked at the film helped put it back in perspective. now it's one of my favs.

    i also embraced the evil chaos consciousness from the other universe... i know it sounds fairly bad, but i think it was trying to communicate in the only way it could... and it even seemed to have a weird affection for dr. weir. he was its reference point to our universe, that it could draw language and concept from so as to give form to its chaos. also since weir built the ship, he's almost an um maternal figure for it. haha.

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    Event Horizon is super cozy somehow. Similar how Alien can be cozy. Of course they both scared the shit out of me when I was younger. But now in my mid 20's and with knowing where and what the scares are, the whole aesthetics, drifting through space and ship designs just have something warm to them.

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    (...) scientists claim to have uncovered the secrets of how the emotion affects the brain, paving the way for the creation of a love test. By scanning the brains of men and women who said they were in love, and comparing them with people who had fallen out of love or never been in love, researchers say they have been able to piece together the first map of the changes that occur in the brain.

    “Our study provides the first evidence of love-related alterations in the underlying architecture of the brain and the results shed new light on the mechanisms of romantic love,” said Professor Xiaochu Zhang of the University of Science and Technology of China in Hefei, who led the study, which is published in Frontiers in Human Neuroscience.
    The researchers, who showed romantic lovers photographs of their partners while scanning their brains, say that the study has demonstrated the “possibility of applying a resting-state fMRI approach” for testing for romantic love, opening the way for fMRI tests to diagnose love.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-10108781.html
    Last edited by Amber; 04-11-2015 at 02:23 AM.

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    Slavoj Zizek - 5w4 (so/sp Alpha)




    James Fallon - 5w4 (so/sp Beta)


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    Fictional Example: Dt. Robert Goren (Criminal Intent) 5w6 sp/sx (LII?) http://detectiverobertgoren.blogspot.com/2008/10/robert-goren-kimdir.html

    I always thought of him as a rather interesting character. I admit I'm going more with my impression here, after years of watching the show.

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    Reinhold Messner - 5w6 (likely a LSI-Ti)

    http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...alexander-text

    Superhumanly determined, Reinhold Messner has pursued his uncompromising vision to reach the summits of Earth's highest peaks—and beyond.

    Italian mountaineer and explorer Reinhold Messner has made a career of near-impossible climbs, and is considered one of the greatest climbers in history. On May 8, 1978, Messner completed his ascent of Mount Everest without supplemental oxygen—a feat previously thought to be impossible. Additionally, Messner has climbed all 14 of the world's peaks that measure 8,000 meters and up. Messner is also an author, politician and businessman.




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    Default Enneagram Type 5

    5 needs a thread even if there is no love for it (maybe we just don't have a lot of, if any, 5s here and everyone is fixated on their own type?).







    "Now I have studied philosophy,

    medicine and the law,

    and unfortunately, theology,

    wearily sweating, yet I stand now,

    poor fool, no wiser than I was before;

    I am called Master, even Doctor,

    and for these last ten years have led

    my students by the nose--up, down,

    crosswise and crooked. Now I see

    that we know nothing finally." - Faust


    Last edited by entelecheia; 10-29-2016 at 05:20 AM. Reason: Attempting to format it correctly

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    Just replace 'introvert' with '5'

    Introverts.jpg
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    @chips and underwear But all the 4s are uniting! Aren't 5s more socially extraverted than that? Frankly I don't believe 4s actually can unite at all.

    4 #1: My whole life I have wanted to be different from everyone else.
    4 #2: Me too!
    Group of other 4s that has gathered: *starts to panic*
    4 #1: I'm going to stop wanting to be different in order to be different from you all.
    4 #2: But that would make you like everyone else.
    4 #1: Oh no, what I can do...

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    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Since I found this thread, I'll repost my stuff from the other thread here, since I think we have too much know-it-all 5 and not enough stare-into-the-abyss 5:








    "Now I have studied philosophy,

    medicine and the law,

    and unfortunately, theology,

    wearily sweating, yet I stand now,

    poor fool, no wiser than I was before;

    I am called Master, even Doctor,

    and for these last ten years have led

    my students by the nose--up, down,

    crosswise and crooked. Now I see

    that we know nothing finally." - Faust


    I should probably also post my signature poem as well:

    625. Ode on a Grecian Urn
    THOU still unravish'd bride of quietness,
    Thou foster-child of Silence and slow Time,
    Sylvan historian, who canst thus express
    A flowery tale more sweetly than our rhyme:
    What leaf-fringed legend haunts about thy shape 5
    Of deities or mortals, or of both,
    In Tempe or the dales of Arcady?
    What men or gods are these? What maidens loth?
    What mad pursuit? What struggle to escape?
    What pipes and timbrels? What wild ecstasy? 10
    Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard
    Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;
    Not to the sensual ear, but, more endear'd,
    Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone:
    Fair youth, beneath the trees, thou canst not leave 15
    Thy song, nor ever can those trees be bare;
    Bold Lover, never, never canst thou kiss,
    Though winning near the goal—yet, do not grieve;
    She cannot fade, though thou hast not thy bliss,
    For ever wilt thou love, and she be fair! 20
    Ah, happy, happy boughs! that cannot shed
    Your leaves, nor ever bid the Spring adieu;
    And, happy melodist, unwearièd,
    For ever piping songs for ever new;
    More happy love! more happy, happy love! 25
    For ever warm and still to be enjoy'd,
    For ever panting, and for ever young;
    All breathing human passion far above,
    That leaves a heart high-sorrowful and cloy'd,
    A burning forehead, and a parching tongue. 30
    Who are these coming to the sacrifice?
    To what green altar, O mysterious priest,
    Lead'st thou that heifer lowing at the skies,
    And all her silken flanks with garlands drest?
    What little town by river or sea-shore, 35
    Or mountain-built with peaceful citadel,
    Is emptied of its folk, this pious morn?
    And, little town, thy streets for evermore
    Will silent be; and not a soul, to tell
    Why thou art desolate, can e'er return. 40
    O Attic shape! fair attitude! with brede
    Of marble men and maidens overwrought,
    With forest branches and the trodden weed;
    Thou, silent form! dost tease us out of thought
    As doth eternity: Cold Pastoral! 45
    When old age shall this generation waste,
    Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
    Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say'st,
    'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
    Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.' 50



    Well, it's a Romantic poem about truth, not about being special, so don't tell me to move it to the 4 thread I know a lot more 5w4 stuff if people try to flood this with 5w6 stuff, regardless of what my main enneatype is (I'm sure I have 5 in my tritype).

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    @Amber, if you're ever back, your video is broken and I'm curious. I think people type Chopin as E5 music because it's supposed to be "contemplative" and "introspective", but yeah, I wouldn't pick that for E5 either since it's also just gushy and has nothing to do with what E5 is supposed to be in itself. Also, not all E5s are supposed to be detached according to what I've read, it mostly depends on instincts, tritype, etc. as well. If you're focused on detachment you probably have a 9 somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verbrannte View Post
    @Amber, if you're ever back, your video is broken and I'm curious. I think people type Chopin as E5 music because it's supposed to be "contemplative" and "introspective", but yeah, I wouldn't pick that for E5 either since it's also just gushy and has nothing to do with what E5 is supposed to be in itself. Also, not all E5s are supposed to be detached according to what I've read, it mostly depends on instincts, tritype, etc. as well. If you're focused on detachment you probably have a 9 somewhere.
    I don't really agree that Chopin is "just gushy," because although it is melodically centered as with other Romantic music, it's also highly patterned. It engages in complexity for its own sake and if you consider the etudes it is technically strict as hell. People have noted these features and studied the mathematics of Chopin's work, finding fractal relations therein, for example.

    Here's something the painter Eugene Delacroix wrote in his journal about a conversation he had with Chopin:

    I asked [Chopin] what established logic in music. He helped me to understand the nature of harmony and counterpoint; so that the fugue is like pure logic in music, and to be a scientist in the fugue is to know the element of all reason and all consequence in music.… I thought how happy I would be to learn all these matters that so depress vulgar musicians. This feeling gave me an idea of the pleasure that those who deserve to be called scientists find in science. The true science is not what one ordinarily understands by this word, that is to say a part of knowledge distinct from art; no! Science viewed in this way, demonstrated by a man like Chopin, is art itself, and on the other hand art is then no longer what the vulgar believe, that is to say a sort of inspiration that comes from who knows where, that works by chance and only presents the picturesque exterior of things. It’s reason itself, ornamented by genius, but following a necessary path and governed by higher laws.
    Of course I know that the word "science" has evolved since then (1848), but these observations still portray that Chopin's obsessions did not lie with pure "self-expression."

    I'm writing this from the vantage of being a professional pianist when I was younger (until I injured my hand). The brilliant structural regularity of Chopin's work stands out compared to, say, Schumann's stuff, which comes across as quaint, truly songlike, and irregular. Or even Debussy's work; I think Debussy had such extraordinary harmonic virtuosity but from the standpoint of structural patterning seems far looser and more freely associative or sidewinding than Chopin. Very different composers, don't love to compare them, but eh.

    There may be some pianists who interpret Chopin in a gushy, self-indulgent, and sentimental way, but there's no need to do this. I rather disagree with that approach. And I find the biographical hype silly, although ofc people love a good story.
    Last edited by golden; 10-31-2016 at 12:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verbrannte View Post
    Since I found this thread, I'll repost my stuff from the other thread here, since I think we have too much know-it-all 5 and not enough stare-into-the-abyss 5:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP2SS8ggLtU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r679Hhs9Zs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7SQpjhbcws
    David Bowie has been pretty much cemented as 3w4/4w3 following this long debate about this type. Same for Jim Morrison, another likely image triader on the 3/4 axis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    David Bowie has been pretty much cemented as 3w4/4w3 following this long debate about this type. Same for Jim Morrison, another likely image triader on the 3/4 axis.
    I didn't mean the artists, I mean the songs themselves. David Bowie is probably something like 457, doesn't mean he can't make a 5 song occasionally, and I'm sure Jim Morisson is probably 458 since he's ILI and he was super into philosophy, literature, etc. He wanted to be a poet, but there's no money in that in America so he did music instead. "I'm sinking in the quicksand of my thoughts and I ain't got the power anymore" is like the most 548 song ever, and "I'm the spy in the house of love and I know... *insert everything about you*" is pretty 5 Sx. Jim Morrison is definitely not a 3 and David Bowie is most likely not a 3 because "look out you rock 'n' rollas" and all that.

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    Buddhist monks and nuns, the ultimate 5w6 archetypes.







    (^^^ this picture looks so awesome, love the serenity and composition.)













    > from United Nations for a Free Tibet: ">


















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    Quote Originally Posted by Verbrannte View Post
    I didn't mean the artists, I mean the songs themselves. David Bowie is probably something like 457, doesn't mean he can't make a 5 song occasionally, and I'm sure Jim Morisson is probably 458 since he's ILI and he was super into philosophy, literature, etc. He wanted to be a poet, but there's no money in that in America so he did music instead. "I'm sinking in the quicksand of my thoughts and I ain't got the power anymore" is like the most 548 song ever, and "I'm the spy in the house of love and I know... *insert everything about you*" is pretty 5 Sx.
    Fair enough, you should have posted the lyrics then to accompany the songs then. Using tritypes to support your typings is tricky, as you can use them to attribute virtually anything to anyone, turning the enneagram into a giant ball of absurdity. Jim Morrison has been typed as IEI and SLE on this board (link) so it's not a given that he's ILI. Those quotes combined actually sound 6-ish, both the overthinking of the problem and the spying that has tinges of paranoia and attachment triad longings. 5s usually have greater clarity of thought and self-definition.

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    this song has struck me as a 5's integration to point 8, a slumbering giant's wakening and rise to power

    Rosetta Wake


     

    Wake
    Giant o'mine
    Lift your silver tongue to the wind

    Rest your copper eyes on heavens low
    Let your inner child take you home

    Wake slumbering giant
    Melt and show remorse
    Among the gods we are
    You had it all wrong
    I'll wait, watch, wonder, and weep
    I'll scream until the sobs flow
    Until Europa swells again
    Breathe
    Breathe and the sea will teem with life
    Breathe and the land will sink into a flow
    Wake you slumbering satellite
    Wake you satellite wake
    Among gods you scream, wait, watch, and wonder
    What have you of Time?
    How many cycles?
    How many years since descending
    You're the last of your kind
    The last... 'O little prince'
    Sleep

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verbrannte View Post
    I didn't mean the artists, I mean the songs themselves. David Bowie is probably something like 457, doesn't mean he can't make a 5 song occasionally, and I'm sure Jim Morisson is probably 458 since he's ILI and he was super into philosophy, literature, etc. He wanted to be a poet, but there's no money in that in America so he did music instead. "I'm sinking in the quicksand of my thoughts and I ain't got the power anymore" is like the most 548 song ever, and "I'm the spy in the house of love and I know... *insert everything about you*" is pretty 5 Sx. Jim Morrison is definitely not a 3 and David Bowie is most likely not a 3 because "look out you rock 'n' rollas" and all that.
    Nick Cave is probably an ILI 548 but it is possible Jim could have been a 478 sx first. If you haven't read "No One Here Gets Out Alive", and have an interest in him, I recommend it. I think he was too emotionally volatile and expressive to be ILI. I don't even know any ILI core 4s. Jim could have been an IEI.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  37. #37
    silke's Avatar
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    so/sp 5



  38. #38
    𝕋𝕙𝕖 𝕊𝕥𝕠𝕝𝕖𝕟 𝕄𝕒𝕘𝕡𝕚𝕖 Theoria's Avatar
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    once upon a time was there
    an old and lonely tree
    by him folks had come and gone
    and he was standing still

    no carved names, no dance and prayers
    took his sorrows away
    he dreamed to have all lives and hearts
    and own them all his own

    children’s laughter, tears for joy
    newborn babies too
    up he swallowed birds and beasts
    to fill his lonely soul

    now that he is all alone
    the old and lonely tree
    no more song is in the wind
    and the tree is standing still



    once upon a time was there
    an old and lonely tree
    the clear and blue sky up above
    and he was standing still

    shiny snowflakes, rain in spring
    could never ease his soul
    he dreamed to have the whole wide world
    and own it all his own

    oceans and mountains, flowers in white
    the sun, the moon and stars
    even the shadows swallowed he
    to fill his empty soul

    now that he is all alone
    the old and lonely tree
    no more day or night exists
    and the tree is standing still

  39. #39
    Denn wir haben hier keine bleibende Statt entelecheia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Fair enough, you should have posted the lyrics then to accompany the songs then. Using tritypes to support your typings is tricky, as you can use them to attribute virtually anything to anyone, turning the enneagram into a giant ball of absurdity. Jim Morrison has been typed as IEI and SLE on this board (link) so it's not a given that he's ILI. Those quotes combined actually sound 6-ish, both the overthinking of the problem and the spying that has tinges of paranoia and attachment triad longings. 5s usually have greater clarity of thought and self-definition.
    "The Spy" probably, although I thought the longings were more Sx instinct, but "Quicksand" still sounds more 5-ish though because he's lost the power (5 integrates to 8). I also don't think 6s tend to be able to throw out things like:

    I'm closer to the Golden Dawn
    Immersed in Crowley's uniform
    Of imagery
    I'm living in a silent film
    Portraying Himmler's sacred realm
    Of dream reality
    I'm frightened by the total goal
    Drawing to the ragged hole
    And I ain't got the power anymore
    No I ain't got the power anymore

    I mean, they're focused on security, what time do they have for occultism? I feel like too many people are just looking at the details rather than the big picture. Also, maybe life itself is a giant ball of absurdity, and the map will also have to be to really depict the territory.

  40. #40
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