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Thread: Deciding on Static vs. Dynamic

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    Default Deciding on Static vs. Dynamic

    jezus is the cruel sausage...
    Last edited by consentingadult; 04-13-2015 at 11:34 PM.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    The structure looks static. Stand alone sentences that dont need the surrounding sentences to make context.

    Good writing though.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    First, I want to say that I felt bad while analyzing this writing and what might have been underlying it as it was being written. It was well written, and enjoyable to read. It didn't deserve to be broken apart and disected. I felt like i might have been intruding on a personal experience. Please consentingadult, if you feel that I misunderstood something in it, feel free to correct me. And as usualy, take the following with a grain of salt.

     

    * The narrow winding road –uphill- to the cemetery of Atuona is quite a challenge for a flatlander like me.
    - dynamic in the sense of describing movement of the road
    - dynamic in the interaction between you and the road...
    - but also static in being a property/structure description.
    - either Te or Se for the road description
    - possibly Si for "quite a challenge for a flatlander like me". It's hinting at physical reactions and a changing internal state as the flatlander attempts to walk up the hill via the road.


    * 15 minutes earlier I walked out of the airconditioned bank building and was punched in the face by a crushing heat at 100 percent humidity.
    - a scene/episode jump from the road to outside the bank.
    - the time frame suggests possible dynamic thoughts, but also possibly episodic. More likely episodic in that it jumps backwards and looks at either a different scene, or a different angle of the same scene.
    - describes the change between temps, and the effects of the temp change on you (Si)


    * But I had to get up there, this was the chance of a lifetime1 .
    - I'm thinking Ni's internal reaction to external potentiality. It's not the object of focus that has potential, but the projected experience/interaction between you and what might be up there
    - also a hint of Fi, an emotional connection between you and what's up the hill


    * It is a small cemetery, messy, like is to be expected of a small village on an island in the South Pacific. Hardly any structure or order. It’s almost like they said “just drop him over here” before starting to dig. Many graves with a simple cross, not that many with a tombstone.
    - total static, focus is on describing the properties of the cemetery, even if it has a hints of the dynamic (just drop him over there before starting to dig)


    * It was as a student that I first got acquainted with the music of Jacques Brel2; a roommate played it to us.
    - A jump to a different episode/time, but still a hint of dynamic i think


    * It was quite the kind of music that fitted our lifestyle, which was, at the time, quite burgundy: extensive cooking each evening, dinners lasted for hours, we philosophized about almost everything, often till late at night or even early in the morning.
    - lots of episode jumps meshed into a general description. Scenes of cooking, dinners filled with discussions.
    - a combo of Te with Fi, and/or Fe


    * Brel’s music always instilled a feeling of pain in me. A pain caused by the realization that that which should have been, can never be reached
    - includes Ni...internal reaction of pain (either Fe or Fi) caused by the realization of a lost potentiality
    - unsure if the pain of the music is Fi, or Fe, could be Fe's how objects are interacting on an emotional level...you and the music interacting. However, could also indicate the emotional orientation (Fi) you have towards the music. But there's also a sense of always have always will.


    * Long ago I had a dream about an imaginary covered shopping street somewhere in De Pijp3, a side street of the Albert Cuyp4 or running parallel to it. Somewhere you have to turn the corner and then you are there, but it is easy to pass it by unnoticed. A street too, that few have discovered, but where you feel you are so very much at ease that you find inner peace.
    - 3rd paragraph and we have another jump in scenes/episodes.
    - the paragraph describes the structure and properties of the dream street (static)
    - the last sentence is Si, because it hints at an internal change that occurs when one finds and strolls along this special street. From stress/tense to ease/peace. Could be Fe, but seems more Si to me. You would know better though.


    * I had that dream only once, since then I have dreamt many times that I went looking for that street, but always in vain.
    - another jump, but the jumps are pretty well connected. It seems like you can immerse yourself into a memory/scene, and then jump out of it, move to another one, and immerse yourself into that one, jump out, and repeat. I like reading that style of description. Quite flexible mentally. I associate this with N/S base. I still have to study more on VS cog style, but your writing is definitely not DA/CD. I'm thinking HP or VS or a flexible mix of the two.


    * Until last week. I was walking about town with another blogger and accidentally ran into the street. But she didn’t experience the street the way I did, she had other troubles on her mind, busy and preoccupied as she always is.
    - the first sentence is difficult to tell if dynamic or static.
    - the second sentence jumps to her, and her orientations (Fi)


    * Still, it can not be a coincidence that I have found the street again with her. I have been pondering for over a week now what this dream means. And if I will be able to find the street again without her.
    - i'm thinking Ni here. 'Pondering what the dream means' seems to be attending to your internal reactions to the dream, and to projecting into a future potential.


    * That kind of pain, the fear –the knowledge?- of never finding my destination. The pain of being out-of-synch with other people.
    -
    - i think Ni with Fe, and some underlying Fi.


    * Brel’s grave does have a tombstone. A few people have left a memory there, but it is not a grave like that of Jim Morrison or Jimi Hendrix. This island is too far off the beaten path, it is too difficult to get there.
    - properties of some different graves
    - properties of the island


    * It’s also way too hot; at such moments you’d rather retreat into yourself, in the cold, wearing a warm coat and a shawl around your neck, blowing your nose.
    - a combination of properties and Si's internal reactions to senses. But it's imagined sensory stimuli, and primarily symbolic, so probably more likely to be more Ni than Si.


    * It is, however, quiet, and that helps thinking over things about yourself.
    - property, but also with hint of interaction


    * Brel lived for a few years on this island. Did he find the peace he was looking for? Acquiescence, perhaps? And who were the loved ones he left behind? Do they come all the way to Atuona for consolation? Ne me quitte pas.
    - Some Te due to the interest in what the he and his loved ones are doing or did.
    - and either Fe or Fi in considering the emotional connections/interactions between them and the island/grave.
    - and some possible Si for the peace.


    * We do not want to be abandoned, but almost carelessly we do it ourselves and leave the ones that love us behind. Looking for Atuona…
    - Primarily Ni, with a strong consideration for affect (Fe/Fi)


    ----
    In summary,
    Overall i get the feeling that this piece of writing was a combination of HP and VS.
    Because it is a descriptive piece, that might influence a higher HP feel. (This brings up an interesting bias to consider when asking for a piece of writing, since I had specified a descriptive piece.)

    There was no conditionals, or considerations of opposing sides/angles like one would expect in a heavy HP or DA piece. Overall it wasn't so much building up a picture of the scene for the reader, but of ruminating on internal reactions. But a large part of the writing was referring to dreams, and that might influence that feel.

    I would not consider typing someone based on this piece. At least not in terms of static/dynamic. The most I might type in this context would be N/S base (most likely N) with strong Fe/Fi. So IEx.

    The static/dynamic site says:
    People's expressions usually contain a mixture of both static and dynamic constructions. This proportion can be related to types roughly in the following way:
    Static: Ji-Ixxj > Ji-Exxp > Pe-Ixxj > Pe-Exxp || Pi-Ixxp < Pi-Exxj < Je-Ixxp < Je-Exxj ynamic
    Which means P base would be the most mixed. And for P subtypes, I would suggest not to really bother trying to, there are other reinin dichotomies that would likely be more obvious and less difficult to analyze.

    In final, please be gentle in your critique. This was difficult to analyze, and I've now a raging headache. But I figured trying this was worth the effort. Thank you for sharing this piece.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    If you can summarise the text in the OP please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Well, how does one summarize a poem or a proze poem? Let me give it a try:

    Life's a bitch and then you die.
    That sounds static

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    It's dynamic -- Ni + Fe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    @anndelise: I have no critique, most of the things that I do understand make sense, socionics-wise. Only, I have no clue what VS, HP DA/CD means. Where can I find more info about that?
    Eh, you won't like it due to it being based off the static/dynamic, positivist/negativist, and result/process dichotomies. http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Victor-Gulenko

    It goes into how each ring of supervision shares a similar way of thinking.
    Holographic-Panoramic (NeFiSeTiNe) gains understanding through approaching something from different angles, seeing it in different ways.
    Causal-Deterministic (SeFiNeTiSe) gains understanding through a linear cause-effect type approach.
    Dialectic-Algorithmic (FeNiTeSiFe) gains understanding through an if-then conditionals type approach.
    Vortical-Synergetic (FeSiTeNiFe) gains understanding through some kind of chaotic synergetic kaleidoscope type approach. I'm still trying to understand that one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Eh, you won't like it due to it being based off the static/dynamic, positivist/negativist, and result/process dichotomies. http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Victor-Gulenko

    It goes into how each ring of supervision shares a similar way of thinking.
    Holographic-Panoramic (NeFiSeTiNe) gains understanding through approaching something from different angles, seeing it in different ways.
    Causal-Deterministic (SeFiNeTiSe) gains understanding through a linear cause-effect type approach.
    Dialectic-Algorithmic (FeNiTeSiFe) gains understanding through an if-then conditionals type approach.
    Vortical-Synergetic (FeSiTeNiFe) gains understanding through some kind of chaotic synergetic kaleidoscope type approach. I'm still trying to understand that one.
    Greatly appreciate this, I believe D-A solidifies my typing.

    To contribute something useful, I have heard that VS's kaleidoscope acts in such a fashion that it pulls any information they can get their hands on (including already known information) to the forefront of the problem (why it's called vortex, the information surrounding anything having to do with the problem is sucked into the center where it can be focused on).

    To contribute something useful to this specific thread, I believe @consentingadult's passage is indeed dynamic as others have already pointed out.
    Have a different opinion on my type? Message me or tell me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Would that have implications for my type, or can I basically still be a static type that happens to be using dynamic IE for a change?
    There are a few things to consider:

    1. Is your story a valid way to type static/dynamic
    2. Is static/dynamic valid

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Would that have implications for my type, or can I basically still be a static type that happens to be using dynamic IE for a change?
    I think it might depend on the specific type of dynamic that is apparent in the passage. I mainly picked out that the passage was dynamic because most of the details were collected in reference to their effects on you and the surrounding environment. "Crushing heat", for instance, would signal the physical affect of the environment on you, , as the sensory phenomena as it is described here can not be separated from the self and still have the same application. Throughout your writing, I noticed more than , suggesting that maybe you were indulging weaker in your Super-Id rather than actually being a different sociotype because of the details.

    Someone pointed out that "But I had to get up there, this was the chance of a lifetime" seemed like , but I'm skeptical of that. I would conjecture that you are treating the experience as separate from the self, that there is object potential in reaching your destination. There is something promising.
    Have a different opinion on my type? Message me or tell me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    So far I have considered Reinin dichotomies Forer Effect. But if there are people capable of translating these dichotomies into plain English that leave no room ambivalence or random interpretation, I'm willing to listen. E.g. the problem with the Gulenko link provided by Anndelise, is that this article is all theory and doesn't translate into practice. At least, I don't see how these theoretical constructs relate to real people.
    I think static/dynamic is one of the better ones but the issue is that although they are dichotomies, they are so abstract that they are mostly useless for typing.

    Also you could create 1000's of dichotomies if you wished to, there's no clear logic from what I can see why Reinin only made the number he did.

    Basically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Indeed. It's just what the average tourist would do if they had visited the same island.
    The average tourist may not use the same perspective (may use different perception elements) as their motivation, however. Those motivated by might want to reach the cemetery just to experience the profound effect the place will have on them. Those motivated by might want to reach the cemetery because it might be an opportunity (object potential) such as improving their understanding of the culture or history of the location.

    Also, for one of your posts above in response to someone else. Dynamic-Static appears more realistic when you realize that Dynamics track effects and make sense of them to be able to affect situations themselves and that Statics track features and make sense of them to categorize them and build models themselves.

    An ESI, for instance, uses the perception of static features (objects; this person, this action, this behavior, this organization) to organize it into a web-like value system. "I like these people, I dislike these people, I think this behavior is rude, I think this behavior is kind", etc.

    An LIE, for instance, uses the perception of dynamic effects occurring in a situation (the movement, the exchange, the general processes occurring, etc.) to allow them insight into how to affect the situations to their advantage or desires. "I can influence this exchange by taking this action", "I can change the way things are run now by implementing this strategy", etc.

    I, too, am generally wary of the Reinen dichotomies, but I believe that Static-Dynamic is a very plausible one.
    Have a different opinion on my type? Message me or tell me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    That sounds static
    In fact the first part is Static, the second is Dynamic: hence its impact, the swift swap of Rings.
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Also you could create 1000's of dichotomies if you wished to, there's no clear logic from what I can see why Reinin only made the number he did.
    The Reinin dichotomies are essentially the power set of the original 4 dichotomies.* Basically, any group of one, two, three or four of the original Jungian traits can be "combined" to yield a new trait, for a total of 15 traits (4 original + 11 "new" traits). These 15 traits have a number of interesting properties and are the basis for all small groupings used in Socionics, such as quadras, cognitive styles etc.

    For example, the Aristocratic / Democratic trait can be conceived as a combination of the Intuitive / Sensing and Ethical / Logical traits. If you change one of those two traits but leave the other intact, you also change the Aristocratic / Democratic trait. If you change one or both of the other Jungian traits but leave those two intact, then the Aristocratic / Democratic trait doesn't change.

    *minus the hypothetical "null dichotomy" which is useless for typology.

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