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Thread: question for sp-1st or 2nd people

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    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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    Default question for sp-1st or 2nd people

    What does sp feel like?

    I imagine it has a lot more depth than what I'm able to access.

    I want to hear all about it

    EDIT: what does it feel like when things are going well? what are the pleasurable or meaningful aspects of it?

    I'm trying to figure out what the "reward" of sp is
    Last edited by lemontrees; 11-19-2014 at 11:42 PM.
    There was no place that destruction did not touch...At best it made everything feel flooded, urgent, while pushing towards decay and exposing the imminent failure of managing to maintain a form at all. Inside this was the kernel of wholeness. She could be broken down into a small, granular piece, a bit of debris jostling against other bits of debris, and in that friction there was some sense of having a boundary or a presence, and that thing-ness of the self, reduced to a basic instinctive sensation, was an almost-nothing feeling that, in its small hard knot of a numb halo, made it clear to her that you were here, you were now.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    I'm a bit new to enneagram myself so take what i say in context with that, but in my developing understanding of the stackings, it's more that I resonate with the overall phenotype of sp/so versus the other stackings, and thus i'm not sure i'm able to distinctly separate out what is sp about myself. What's interesting to me also (sort of a side-note), is that i do relate also to some aspects of the other syn-flow stackings (so/sx and sx/sp) but truly sp/so seems to fit the best and is most comfortable to me as a descriptor of my identity. In fact, before someone pointed out sp/so to me, I had tentatively considered myself so/sx.

    In interacting with people of a variety of stackings here, some of the differences that stand out to me that might seem stacking related:

    --my thoughts tend to not gravitate to darkness; i dont like thinking about darkness and despair, much less dwelling on it. I actually kind of have an aversion to that.

    --being in charge of my own self and maintaining my own identity, while also being a positively contributing member of the community describes me well. I do get nervous though when the "community" starts trying to take over being in charge of me and my time and my choices, and i dont particularly enjoy that feeling. (this might actually be the sp-first in me). In a way that may make me seem like a "loner" sometimes, but I prefer to see it as me being a free-agent. This dynamic plays out in different ways in different situations for me, but for example, re: hanging out with friends, sometimes i will join and sometimes not, and I dont like it when i'm made to feel like i'm not being a good friend if i dont join for something, or put pressure on me to (I know some ppl who sort of do that. Idk what stacking that would represent... so/sp? not sure...)

    --I like being a responsible member of society and to be helpful towards a constructive goal (this may not be type related).

    --throwing around idle talk about poop, passing gas, privates, unless in the context of helping someone with a medical problem, just seems banal and unpleasantly vulgar to me. (may also not be stacking related, but i kind of see sx firsts or 2nds engaging that kind of talk & joking more, for some reason).

    --I'm very private about sexual matters; it's not something i choose or prefer to engage in as an open topic of conversation with people i'm not intimate with. Not here on the forum, not among my irl platonic friends, not at work. Amazingly, my boss sometimes makes references alluding to sex with her husband, or boobs, and even if i will be friendly about it, I find it highly uncomfortable and awkward when she does that. I know some people would enjoy that kind of thing though and think her to be chill and fun because of that. To clear up what seems to be a misconception about sx-lasts, though, this does not mean i'm not a sexual person... In a way, sex is too sacred of a realm for me to just casually talk/joke about it, it's almost like doing that would sort of cheapen that sacredness.

    IDk if this was helpful at all
    Last edited by Suz; 11-19-2014 at 11:24 PM. Reason: typo
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    It kind of feels like a self-attending impulse. A focus on my body...building it up, breaking it down. Touching. Boundaries. Things that are mine.
    Last edited by suedehead; 11-19-2014 at 11:43 PM.

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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if I am sp first or second. I'm a major head type, constantly worrying and looking up info, and mentally planning how to handle what if scenarios, etc. Most of that is fixated on health and wellbeing. What happens if R dies or is in an accident or we somehow split up? How would I get by? What things would I do? I kept my crappy van for years as a just in case thing, it could be my home, I knew how I could set it up for living in it. How would I cook? How would I clean? This summer I finally got rid of the van and got a car, but not before getting agreements for loans if something happens and I need to get a vehicle I could live out of.

    I also constantly check and double check if I left the stove on, locked the door, etc. I'll check multiple times, not just twice.

    I'm constantly analyzing my body, how it feels, do I need to warm up? Cool down? Adjust positions, etc. i attribute much of this to Si seeking.

    I have boxes and boxes of books and notes, and hundreds of pdfs related to physical health, nutrition, fitness, mental health, self-improvement, etc.

    Now, while I am mentally fixated on these things, I'm not a gut type. I don't actively, physically pursue the common sp materialistic or monetary related stuff. My house is disgustingly cluttered (with the above mentioned boxes of stuff). It drives me nuts. But it's a real struggle to get rid of it because I might need/want the info some day. I'm on disability, so there's not enough to set aside for savings, etc. So instead I've begun working on reducing expenses. Reducing how much electricity we use, how much money we spend on food, etc. Though I still spend on books and such, grrr.

    R, on the other hand is sp/so. He does earn good money, good investments, etc. But, he doesn't consider if the house is locked up, lights out, etc. He doesn't get cold easily, or too hot, etc. He doesn't understand my worry fixation. He doesn,t plot and plan about it all, like I do. But then, he's probably an enneagram 9. If I tell him I want something, he gets it for me...eventually.

    I would imagine that a heart fixated sp would be the ones that are fixated on decorating their home, making it comfy, fixing it up, remodel parts of it, fill it with sentimental items, develop a strong attachment to it, and be total homebodies.

    Oh, speaking of homebodies, R and I prefer spending time at home rather than go out. Neither of us is much interested in having company, though. We don't spend most our time conversing about sp matters, either. He's too much of an introvert to talk much, and I don't feel comfy letting him know just what kinds of thoughts constantly run through my head.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    EDIT: what does it feel like when things are going well? what are the pleasurable or meaningful aspects of it?

    I'm trying to figure out what the "reward" of sp is
    The benefits of sp for me would be peace/quiet, freedom, independence, comfort (both physical and spiritual).
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    EDIT: what does it feel like when things are going well? what are the pleasurable or meaningful aspects of it?

    I'm trying to figure out what the "reward" of sp is
    One thing to keep in mind is that the enneagram is about fixations, in general how we avoid the 3 Aversive Emotions.
    * Uncertainty and Fear (mind)
    * Obstacles and Frustrated wants/desires (gut)
    * Loss of attachment/support (heart)
    (I have better phrases for these three, but i can't find my notes right now)

    So for benefits of each instinct, imagine how a healthy person who has found successful ways of handling the aversive emotions might approach the sp related areas of life. Maybe...
    A person who feels confident and calm regarding sp related matters.
    A person who has released attachment to materialistic items.
    A person who is comfortable being alone with just themselves.
    A person who is self-reliant.
    A person who has a secure sense of self, and is able to assert their personal boundaries as needed, without stepping over others'.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Kill4Me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    I'm not sure if I am sp first or second. I'm a major head type, constantly worrying and looking up info, and mentally planning how to handle what if scenarios, etc. Most of that is fixated on health and wellbeing. What happens if R dies or is in an accident or we somehow split up? How would I get by? What things would I do? I kept my crappy van for years as a just in case thing, it could be my home, I knew how I could set it up for living in it. How would I cook? How would I clean? This summer I finally got rid of the van and got a car, but not before getting agreements for loans if something happens and I need to get a vehicle I could live out of.

    I also constantly check and double check if I left the stove on, locked the door, etc. I'll check multiple times, not just twice.

    I'm constantly analyzing my body, how it feels, do I need to warm up? Cool down? Adjust positions, etc. i attribute much of this to Si seeking.

    I have boxes and boxes of books and notes, and hundreds of pdfs related to physical health, nutrition, fitness, mental health, self-improvement, etc.

    Now, while I am mentally fixated on these things, I'm not a gut type. I don't actively, physically pursue the common sp materialistic or monetary related stuff. My house is disgustingly cluttered (with the above mentioned boxes of stuff). It drives me nuts. But it's a real struggle to get rid of it because I might need/want the info some day. I'm on disability, so there's not enough to set aside for savings, etc. So instead I've begun working on reducing expenses. Reducing how much electricity we use, how much money we spend on food, etc. Though I still spend on books and such, grrr.

    R, on the other hand is sp/so. He does earn good money, good investments, etc. But, he doesn't consider if the house is locked up, lights out, etc. He doesn't get cold easily, or too hot, etc. He doesn't understand my worry fixation. He doesn,t plot and plan about it all, like I do. But then, he's probably an enneagram 9. If I tell him I want something, he gets it for me...eventually.

    I would imagine that a heart fixated sp would be the ones that are fixated on decorating their home, making it comfy, fixing it up, remodel parts of it, fill it with sentimental items, develop a strong attachment to it, and be total homebodies.

    Oh, speaking of homebodies, R and I prefer spending time at home rather than go out. Neither of us is much interested in having company, though. We don't spend most our time conversing about sp matters, either. He's too much of an introvert to talk much, and I don't feel comfy letting him know just what kinds of thoughts constantly run through my head.
    you're sooooooooooooooooo SP-first...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I'm trying to figure out what the "reward" of sp is
    you got a better shot at making it to old age...I don't call that a reward, though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    you're sooooooooooooooooo SP-first...
    Or sx first. Not really sure yet. But definitely becoming more sp as i age.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Or sx first. Not really sure yet. But definitely becoming more sp as i age.
    tell me your distinction for parsing out sx first from sp-first

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    I might be sp.

    I avoid junk food, go to the gym regularly, and exercise whenever I can ( I have a nice body ).

    I have zero debt and a huge savings account.

    Not sure if that helps.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    tell me your distinction for parsing out sx first from sp-first
    If i had a method for that, i wouldnt be confused about which was first for me.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I might be sp.
    fwiw i've actually thought this for a while. not that it's important (or like you asked, or anything)

    in general i guess i'm wondering what sp actually feels like physically and spiritually. b/c when i watch people w/ sp instincts my Si picks up on it, it's a totally distinct physical energy that emanates off of them and is obvious. for all my Si i can't enter that state usually (or at least i imagine i'm not there). it's frustrating. i want someone to describe to me what it's like

    also what makes sp feel "good"? somebody describe to me the most decadent of sp-pleasures, and not just the symptoms of being an Sp person (although i'm happy to hear about that too )
    There was no place that destruction did not touch...At best it made everything feel flooded, urgent, while pushing towards decay and exposing the imminent failure of managing to maintain a form at all. Inside this was the kernel of wholeness. She could be broken down into a small, granular piece, a bit of debris jostling against other bits of debris, and in that friction there was some sense of having a boundary or a presence, and that thing-ness of the self, reduced to a basic instinctive sensation, was an almost-nothing feeling that, in its small hard knot of a numb halo, made it clear to her that you were here, you were now.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    I think I'm sx/sp

    I do sp things, eat good food and stuff to keep myself from exploding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    If i had a method for that, i wouldnt be confused about which was first for me.
    your posts contain a lot of self-exposition. that's a pretty good indicator for sp/sx > sx/sp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    your posts contain a lot of self-exposition. that's a pretty good indicator for sp/sx > sx/sp.
    Ah, but sx is also known as the transmitting instinct, and includes the displaying of self.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    fwiw i've actually thought this for a while. not that it's important (or like you asked, or anything)

    in general i guess i'm wondering what sp actually feels like physically and spiritually. b/c when i watch people w/ sp instincts my Si picks up on it, it's a totally distinct physical energy that emanates off of them and is obvious. for all my Si i can't enter that state usually (or at least i imagine i'm not there). it's frustrating. i want someone to describe to me what it's like

    also what makes sp feel "good"? somebody describe to me the most decadent of sp-pleasures, and not just the symptoms of being an Sp person (although i'm happy to hear about that too )
    I've never thought about the enneagram in much detail (seriously), but the drive I associate with my own sp stacking (assuming I'm indeed sp first or second) is tied to maximizing the feeling of bodily, financial and personal integrity. By analogy, it is making sure that the base of the structure is robust and can weather anything thrown at it.

    e.g. it feels good sitting on a pile of savings and being secure against bankruptcy, or having a healthy body and being secure against diabetes, to put it in simple but instructive terms.

    It seeps into the intellectual realm via a preoccupation with making sure my arguments are air-tight, obsessing over trivial mistakes when performing a craft and having high standards for personal workmanship, etc.

    That's the gist of it, but it's not as anal as it sounds.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    i feel very distinct from other people, i mean the physical energy. i'm always inside my skin, whether i'm pulling deeper into myself or ripping the seams. my apartment is my sanctuary and when its clean and smells nice i feel like it has fortress walls and my feet are sinking into the mud and nothing is blowing away. me, mine, in the circle. being in a crowd is nice not because of the individuals composing it but because of the waves of energy they give off and how it feels brushing my skin.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Self-pres in the secondary position feels rather like a concrete wall on all sides, and your instinct is to somehow break through it. The surface appears rigid and unyielding, but there's a lot of activity inside yearning to bust loose. Without a safe space to come out of that shell, the energy ends up stifled, internally compressed behind the prison bars. A lot of sp-secondaries can have rather withdrawn and disaffected presentations, but it often belies a much stronger modus operandi. It's like they are perpetually waiting for some opportunity to break loose from their cages and connect with the outside world.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I've never thought about the enneagram in much detail (seriously), but the drive I associate with my own sp stacking (assuming I'm indeed sp first or second) is tied to maximizing the feeling of bodily, financial and personal integrity.
    YES. i resonate with this as well. Emphasis most heavily on personal integrity, but all 3 are important to my sanity. Financially, I'm not particularly wealth-focused but, for example, paying money that i owe (bills, loans, etc) is what i see as a component of being a responsible individual and leaving such things undone weighs unpleasantly on me until i do it.

    p.s. i'd like to think that most people emphasize personal integrity though, irrespective of instinct stacking...
    Last edited by Suz; 11-20-2014 at 05:32 AM.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Ah, but sx is also known as the transmitting instinct, and includes the displaying of self.
    Your self-exposition lacks the raw, unfiltered, masochistic quality that sx/sp reveals in their moments of self-exposition.

    Focusing/Talking about self, but not transmitting with enough intensity for sx/sp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    Your self-exposition lacks the raw, unfiltered, masochistic quality that sx/sp reveals in their moments of self-exposition.

    Focusing/Talking about self, but not transmitting with enough intensity for sx/sp.
    I agree. This is one of the reasons why i had put sp/sx as my instinct type.
    However, I was most definitely a transmitter when i was younger. Enough so that aspects of that are what lead to a psyche disorder diagnosis. I believe my age (42), size, and 19 years of effort have helped balance that out so it's not so dominant anymore. (Leading to a whole other set of fixations, )

     

    I expose that which I have (mostly) already disassociated from. While it's still raw I either keep it to myself or transmit only to a trusted person who has proven themselves capable of helping me process it. Well, except my snappishness, heh.

    I still question it, though. I don't identify with most descriptions of sp/sx, and do identify with a lot of sx/sp descriptions. But if I look at the fundamental principles of the instincts, sp and sx are tightly bound together as I flip back and forth between one to the other.

    Sx usually comes to the foremost nowadays when its descriptions include pursuit of interests and seeking stimulation. Which can fit under e7 as well. (I also flip between e6 and e7. Both have aspects I identify with, and aspects I don't.)


    Thank you, Kill4Me. I had been struggling with enneagram for a few years. I'm starting to get it, but still question some things about it. It helps to access someone else's perception on where it might describe me. Especially someone who offers a reason and sample rather than just their final product. Thanks for that.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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    do any more sp people have thoughts?

    i have found this thread helpful and nice!
    There was no place that destruction did not touch...At best it made everything feel flooded, urgent, while pushing towards decay and exposing the imminent failure of managing to maintain a form at all. Inside this was the kernel of wholeness. She could be broken down into a small, granular piece, a bit of debris jostling against other bits of debris, and in that friction there was some sense of having a boundary or a presence, and that thing-ness of the self, reduced to a basic instinctive sensation, was an almost-nothing feeling that, in its small hard knot of a numb halo, made it clear to her that you were here, you were now.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    you got a better shot at making it to old age...I don't call that a reward, though
    Well, if this is how we're putting it, i dont call going out and doing wild partying, drinking, getting high, and being promiscuous until 4am every night or even once a week much of a reward either. It's exhausting and debilitating from all angles (physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual).
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    Well, if this is how we're putting it, i dont call going out and doing wild partying, drinking, getting high, and being promiscuous until 4am every night or even once a week much of a reward either. It's exhausting and debilitating from all angles (physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual).
    its a misconception that sp-firsts don't party. many do. sx-instinct's reckless/insatiableness is an altogether different animal.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    its a misconception that sp-firsts don't party. many do.
    i know, just like your statement was a misconception.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
     

    Sx usually comes to the foremost nowadays when its descriptions include pursuit of interests and seeking stimulation. Which can fit under e7 as well. (I also flip between e6 and e7. Both have aspects I identify with, and aspects I don't.)
    Just noticed that you changed your self-typing from this morning. I was actually going to respond to one of your comments this morning but was tired. I don't know you but from what you say regarding your anxiety, I figured 6 was better fit, too. 7s are head types too but their relation to anxiety differs, it seems 6s quell theirs more (maybe) through thinking about all the worse case scenarios to know the possible outcomes and ways of dealing with them. It seems like more of an anxiety about negative outcomes. With 7s, they're more positive, sometimes even getting into trouble from their tendency to not distinguish dreams from reality which can bring others down too (think of the salesman who fascinates you with a new product or something, highlighting the positives, that ends up getting you into a bind). The anxiety is more about falling into deprivation and, instead of focusing on all these negative 'what ifs', idealization keeps them preoccupied. Could be ideals, visions, adventure, plans, fantasies, the extraordinary, dreams, etc. Some aspects of E7 also seems similar to some depictions of Ne dom too though.

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    Is avoiding risk a necessary part of sp? Because I take a lot.

    How about the overriding of passions and ideals by force of serious pragmatic concerns? Does that only become a factor when the fixation is unhealthy?
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Is avoiding risk a necessary part of sp? Because I take a lot.

    How about the overriding of passions and ideals by force of serious pragmatic concerns? Does that only become a factor when the fixation is unhealthy?
    I the second instinct is "freer" when first one is taken care of. at the same time though, the second instinct can be still pretty functional while the first is crashing and burning.

    i think sp-first people, depending on their personalities, can take risks on sp for the sake of future or bigger sp-gains. or when unhealthy they can just disregard their safety period. or they might want to prove that their sp isn't totally in control of them.

    but it might be worth taking a look at what drives the risks, what it's pivoting around.

    EDIT: but you know. serious pragmatic concerns are serious pragmatic concerns. those affect everyone...
    There was no place that destruction did not touch...At best it made everything feel flooded, urgent, while pushing towards decay and exposing the imminent failure of managing to maintain a form at all. Inside this was the kernel of wholeness. She could be broken down into a small, granular piece, a bit of debris jostling against other bits of debris, and in that friction there was some sense of having a boundary or a presence, and that thing-ness of the self, reduced to a basic instinctive sensation, was an almost-nothing feeling that, in its small hard knot of a numb halo, made it clear to her that you were here, you were now.

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    I bought a 3-pack of jumbo ziploc bags and felt a mild ecstasy at unfolding them and seeing how they were the perfect affordable, space-saving solution to my seasonal storage needs. This isn't something I'd say comes naturally to me ... I've clawed and clambered every inch of the way to master basic physical / spatial issues. It's satisfying, because it's earned.

    Also earned, and maintained and renegotiated, is what I call "feeling the contours of my own being," which I guess sounds cheesy. But yeah there's a sense of containment of my energy, it feels coiled up and purposeful, like I have a secret, I might or might not share it, maybe I'll let you in, maybe not.

    Or maybe I'm just imagining all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    I bought a 3-pack of jumbo ziploc bags and felt a mild ecstasy at unfolding them and seeing how they were the perfect affordable, space-saving solution to my seasonal storage needs. This isn't something I'd say comes naturally go me ... I've clawed and clambered every inch of the way to master basic physical / spatial issues. It's satisfying, because it's earned.

    Also earned, and maintained and renegotiated, is what I call "feeling the contours of my own being," which I guess sounds cheesy. But yeah there's a sense of containment of my energy, it feels coiled up and purposeful, like I have a secret, I might or might not share it, maybe I'll let you in, maybe not.

    Or maybe I'm just imagining all that.
    this basically sounds like the best thing ever.
    There was no place that destruction did not touch...At best it made everything feel flooded, urgent, while pushing towards decay and exposing the imminent failure of managing to maintain a form at all. Inside this was the kernel of wholeness. She could be broken down into a small, granular piece, a bit of debris jostling against other bits of debris, and in that friction there was some sense of having a boundary or a presence, and that thing-ness of the self, reduced to a basic instinctive sensation, was an almost-nothing feeling that, in its small hard knot of a numb halo, made it clear to her that you were here, you were now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    this basically sounds like the best thing ever.
    It might or might not be Sp. It's definitely pleasant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olly From Wally World View Post
    Just noticed that you changed your self-typing from this morning. I was actually going to respond to one of your comments this morning but was tired. I don't know you but from what you say regarding your anxiety, I figured 6 was better fit, too. 7s are head types too but their relation to anxiety differs, it seems 6s quell theirs more (maybe) through thinking about all the worse case scenarios to know the possible outcomes and ways of dealing with them. It seems like more of an anxiety about negative outcomes. With 7s, they're more positive, sometimes even getting into trouble from their tendency to not distinguish dreams from reality which can bring others down too (think of the salesman who fascinates you with a new product or something, highlighting the positives, that ends up getting you into a bind). The anxiety is more about falling into deprivation and, instead of focusing on all these negative 'what ifs', idealization keeps them preoccupied. Could be ideals, visions, adventure, plans, fantasies, the extraordinary, dreams, etc. Some aspects of E7 also seems similar to some depictions of Ne dom too though.
    The thing though is I do tend to move from exploring one thing to exploring another, like...constantly!! Never finishing, grass is always greener, the idealisticness of a new project only to be inevitably disappointed and move on to another one. Fear of Missing Out. Anticipating the next BIG thing. THIS time it'll be awesome, I can't wait to tell R about it, or Kim. I'm so excited, THIS is what I want to do when I grow up. Yeah! Oh, hmmmm, that looks interesting too. Oh, I could do this other thing and that would be just fantastic!! My what ifs are way more optimistic, and about new potentials. I could combine this with that, throw in a little of another and yes! Recipe for goodness! It's a never ending cycle of this for me. It drives R nuts, but after 8 years he finally accepted that that was just a natural part of me that just ain't gonna change, no matter how much I try. And I'm happiest, and more fun to be with, when I don't try changing this part of me. I'm freer, more responsive, more outgoing, much less anxious, much less irritable, etc.

    Basically I am at my happiest and most natural when I'm more 7ish. And...I'm much more sx those times, too.

    It's like I cycle back and forth, round and round between 7sx and 6sp. Possibly due to being bipolar/bpd. I want to pursuie a new project, get involved with something interesting and positively stimulating, and I will...but then the sp stuff starts to kick in, house needs cleaning, stuff needs to be cleared out, maintenance needs to be done, it distracts me, pulls me away from the project I'm doing. So then I stop that pursuit and start clearing and cleaning, and then the anxieties start kicking in, and the irritableness, and I just really Really want to drop the sp stuff and get involved with something new and exciting again, feel that uplift in spirit, forget the cares of the world and the mundane. But I know if I do, I won't get the house and such taken care of. So I hold off, try to get more done, get more irritable, depressed, and anxious. And then I allow myself just a taste. Surely I can balance the two, other people do it. I let myself peek into a book, or briefly explore something new. Before I know it the day is gone, and I'm hooked again, jumping from one idea to another to another. And so the cycle continues. Grrrr.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Almost certain of sp-first for myself, and relate to a lot of what @Suz and @lungs have already said. Although I really don't mind jumping in and thinking about (not dwelling on) the "darkness and despair" that Suz mentioned in post #2; that may or may not be related to the stacking.

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    Best as I can figure:

    I want to be close to another person, but it doesn't happen. For instance, in elementary school, I kept wanting a bff, the kind I read about in books. But making that happen is like doing the "taco tongue' thing most people can do. It just doesn't happen. I did social things and had friends, but no bff.

    This might be related to sx-last or unrelated to enneagram; what do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    I am sp first and I have this realm of personal space that I have secured to keep all of the sx and sos out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roro View Post
    Almost certain of sp-first for myself, and relate to a lot of what @Suz and @lungs have already said. Although I really don't mind jumping in and thinking about (not dwelling on) the "darkness and despair" that Suz mentioned in post #2; that may or may not be related to the stacking.
    you're right i think that might be more related to sx last than to sp first. Or NTR...
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Best as I can figure:

    I want to be close to another person, but it doesn't happen. For instance, in elementary school, I kept wanting a bff, the kind I read about in books. But making that happen is like doing the "taco tongue' thing most people can do. It just doesn't happen. I did social things and had friends, but no bff.

    This might be related to sx-last or unrelated to enneagram; what do you think?
    I can do a "clover tongue", which makes me feel extra special.

    I think that this could very well be related to being sx last. It could also be related to your type as well. I know a few Te dominants and they seem to take much longer in forming friendships, especially the more intimate kind. There's a guy that I have considered a friend for well over a year, and I think he has only recently showed signs that the friendships is reciprocated. He now talks to me about more personal things and just looks less guarded. I would say he is sx last as well.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________________________
    It's interesting, as sp/sx I spent much of my time alone pursuing my own interests, but I always had a desire to have one really good friend to share some of these interests with. I would keep one best friend for years. We would share one, maybe two interests, and hanging out usually revolved around them or some related activity. Before high school, most of these hangouts were what we called "sleep overs". These happened maybe once a month, if that, but that is all the contact I really needed.

    When I feel a connection to someone, I tend to pursue them a bit to form a friendship, or allow myself to be pursued. What's important is that there is some sort of a special bond, understanding, or interest that brings us together. Too much friendship is draining though. For me, it's important to have one really good friend to let my guard down and share things with, just as long as it doesn't become a competitive or dramatic relationship. I prefer all of my relationships to be devoid of these things.
    Last edited by Chains; 11-21-2014 at 03:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    i know, just like your statement was a misconception.
    Copycat

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    I guess I like my personal space too, but I am an extrovert...I'm comfortable around most people whether I know them or not, but sometimes I want them to ignore me so I can do my own thing. I'm not sure this is type-related; I would think sp-lasts would also like personal space. But I know an sx/sp who wants to be with one other person all the time and doesn't like being around multiple people. I like balance: sometimes be "alone", sometimes be with another person, sometimes be with several.

    I think confusion is related. I am most at-ease when "alone" and most mentally lost when having extended 1-1 time with another individual. Not because I don't like them, but because I somehow don't understand the situation. Socializing with a group can be more awkward than being with one person, but it offers more options. If talking to one person gets weird, I can bring someone else into the conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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