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Thread: Can Fi-base be nihilistic?

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    suedehead's Avatar
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    Default Is this too nihilistic for Fi-base?

    I've reached a point where I've become kind of ego-focused, in the sense that I tend to think more about the realistic consequence of my actions, and feel less guilty about small interpersonal things that I only I seem to notice and aren't that big of a deal. I think part of it is a result of taking a job that gave me a dose of reality that I wasn't used to before. At some point I just became too busy and angry about certain ways that I've allowed people to treat me to really care. I don't know if this is a permanent thing, or even healthy, but I'm still curious.

    I'm still aware of my reactions to people, but at this point it feels more like an angry "fuck you" feeling as opposed to something more....I don't know, noble or abstracted? Like with Fi, I picture going out of their way to justify a judgment that they have, or prove that it all comes from a purely ethical place, whereas with me, it feels more immediate or self-evident?..and I don't feel like other people really have to agree with me or even view at as a justified reaction? I'm not sure what I'm getting at, but I've even wondered if I'm just some strange Fi-PoLR, or even Fi-demonstrative. I feel more free to react to people and different situations how I want to as long it stays in my head now, as opposed to thinking that I have to filter it all the time. Maybe this is just natural, and it only feels more pronounced because I used to make myself feel really bad about it. I don't have any pretenses about being exceptionally moral.
    Last edited by suedehead; 11-10-2014 at 01:00 AM.

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    I mean, I don't go out of my way to think negative things about people who don't deserve it, but I just don't bother judging my thoughts in that way anymore. If my mind happens to go there, it's whatever, I probably don't mean it.

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    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    Can you give a few examples?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    Can you give a few examples?
    I can't think of specific examples because I don't think it shows in my external behavior that much. It just feels like an attitude shift - placing less restrictions on thoughts that I would've viewed as wrong, like something aggressive, morbid, selfish or dick-ish that's just a heat-in-the-moment thing, irrelevant or isn't that serious. And as a whole, it makes me feel less...strict or guilty about things that I don't have to be. I'm only feels like a big deal out of it because I used to have a weird, repressive relationship with those sort of thoughts.
    Last edited by suedehead; 11-10-2014 at 01:57 AM.

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    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    I think aggressive, morbid, dick-ish thoughts. Esp when I'm driving, "OMFG I WANT A BAZOOKA, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY YOU WASTE OF SPACE FUCKING PIECES OF SHIT" esp when someone cuts me off aggressively. I just rarely act on them. because well, I'm not that evil and because I dont want to end up in prison. (mostly the prison thing).

    I don't think thinking shitty thoughts makes anyone a bad person- you're just...growing up kid. Repressing thoughts/feelings does nothing. Better to feel 'em, deal with 'em, and eventually you won't feel so angry. It's probably the act of having repressed a lot of yourself for quite a while that you finally feel some...type of rebellious edge. the past few years I've had a "fuck the world" mindset...and I'm starting to grow out of it. It was largely futile but it was something I needed to go through
    (I grew up in a very repressed religious family who were largely hypocritical about upholding people to impossible standards and yet were extremely laxed in their views upon themselves... so I repressed ..for decades).

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    Suedehead, how does this perspective/attitude development relate to being nihilistic, do you mean in the loose sense of the word, not caring for how others/yourself think and feel to the way you react?

    At about 21-25 I went through a very similar phase in my life. I actually became steadily more aggressive, more assertive, more confident and more insecure at the same time. I cared less and less about how people thought about me, or even what I thought about them. For instance, I, to my astonishment, could easily tear down some bank teller if a mistake was made, or snap at a bi-law officer for ticketing my truck. This extended into my personal life as well, where I realized I could walk all over people, and that I was absolutely alright with that. I have to agree with blackburry here: when I read your OP, I immediately came to the conclusion that you might possibly be going through a phase of growth that is at this point inevitable and might last for several years. For whatever reasons, you are finding your voice. Real people are authentic not necessarily kind. The only piece of advice I think would be fair and even remotely helpful, is that you need to trust everything inside yourself. Trust that what is happening should be happening and that it couldn't be any other way. The relative, pragmatic parts of life are frustrating, difficult, nihilistic, unkind, empty and mundane. As a young adult you might be seeing that for the very first time (idk).

    Trust that your reactions are okay, even the petty childish ones. Go all out. Authenticity of your personal truths must to be experienced.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    The Reclusive Philosopher Phantom Shadow's Avatar
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    How are any of these things you all described nihilism? My understanding of nihilism is that the person believes everything is pointless, meaningless, and arbitrary, so you don't care about anything and you do what you want. They would be dispassionate, emotionless, apathetic, and indifferent to everything.
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    In a way, it's kind of sad to think that I don't strive for it anymore, but it feels genuine. As opposed to having people that feel free to treat me however they want talk about how sweet I supposedly am out of no conscious will of my own. This isn't the direction I expected the thread to go in, and I'm not sure I care about how this relates back to Socionics anymore, but your posts really help me put all this into perspective, which is perhaps what I was really looking for. Thank you. @blackburry @wacey
    Last edited by suedehead; 11-10-2014 at 02:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suedehead View Post
    I've reached a point where I've become kind of ego-focused, in the sense that I tend to think more about the realistic consequence of my actions, and feel less guilty about small interpersonal things that I only I seem to notice and aren't that big of a deal. I think part of it is a result of taking a job that gave me a dose of reality that I wasn't used to before. At some point I just became too busy and angry about certain ways that I've allowed people to treat me to really care. I don't know if this is a permanent thing, or even healthy, but I'm still curious.

    I'm still aware of my reactions to people, but at this point it feels more like an angry "fuck you" feeling as opposed to something more....I don't know, noble or abstracted? Like with Fi, I picture going out of their way to justify a judgment that they have, or prove that it all comes from a purely ethical place, whereas with me, it feels more immediate or self-evident?..and I don't feel like other people really have to agree with me or even view at as a justified reaction? I'm not sure what I'm getting at, but I've even wondered if I'm just some strange Fi-PoLR, or even Fi-demonstrative. I feel more free to react to people and different situations how I want to as long it stays in my head now, as opposed to thinking that I have to filter it all the time. Maybe this is just natural, and it only feels more pronounced because I used to make myself feel really bad about it. I don't have any pretenses about being exceptionally moral.

    I can't think of specific examples because I don't think it shows in my external behavior that much. It just feels like an attitude shift - placing less restrictions on thoughts that I would've viewed as wrong, like something aggressive, morbid, selfish or dick-ish that's just a heat-in-the-moment thing, irrelevant or isn't that serious. And as a whole, it makes me feel less...strict or guilty about things that I don't have to be. I'm only feels like a big deal out of it because I used to have a weird, repressive relationship with those sort of thoughts.
    It sounds like you're starting to integrate some of your suggestive function i.e. the stuff you're describing is Te temporarily grabbing a hold of your perception normally ordered by Fi. That sort of disinhibition and non-caring impersonal attitude you've described I get the impression that Te dominants occupy it almost all of the time. This process is normal, though rough and disorienting at times, and goes smoother if you can learn from someone who has a more nuanced way to deal with these kinds of perceptions i.e. someone who can help you formulate any 'twisted' or 'dickish' thoughts into something more adequate and effective, in other words, expand on your own evaluations.

    There's no translated socionics material that would go into depth describing how people experience their suggestive function, but in MBTI this is called being "in the grip of inferior [fxn]". These people report the same kind of disinhibition and heightening of aggression and criticality as what you're noticing of yourself.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...rior-Functions

    Inferior Te: Being out of character can be temporarily enjoyable when inhibitions are lessened, freeing up energy to explore unfamiliar but intriguing parts of oneself. Introverted Feeling types sometimes report becoming more sociable and outgoing. This is particularly true for male ISFPs and INFPs in their early twenties and somewhat less so for older males of these types. Women generally do not report this kind of lowering of inhibitions, perhaps because any such “positive” expression is likely to be eradicated by the negative expressions of anger and criticality that are the hallmarks of inferior Extraverted Thinking. Women may find these inferior function expressions to be more unacceptable than do men. However, over time the characteristic tolerance, flexibility, and quiet caring of Introverted Feeling types diminishes as the energy available to their dominant Introverted Feeling dwindles. “I lose my concern for harmony, my connection with my inner values,” said an INFP. An ISFP said he “searches for conflict and forgets about others' feelings.” ISFPs may also lose access to their auxiliary Sensing function. “I react quickly without finding out any facts,” said one. INFPs may similarly lose sight of their auxiliary Intuition. One INFP said that she “cannot process information, thoughts, or ideas” and becomes “focused on detail, making elaborate plans that are unnecessary.” Initially, INFPs and ISFPs may control their urge to blurt out hostile thoughts by engaging in destructive fantasies directed at just about anyone available. Alternatively, they may employ biting sarcasm and cynicism. As these tactics fail, the negative Extraverted Thinking of their inferior function becomes manifested in judgments of incompetence, aggressive criticism, and precipitous action.

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    Oh yeah, its all good, no worries!
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by suedehead
    Like with Fi, I picture going out of their way to justify a judgment that they have, or prove that it all comes from a purely ethical place, whereas with me, it feels more immediate or self-evident?
    Something about this rings of head type vs gut type. The more head energy goes into ethical issues, the more it doesn't feel immediate and instinctual. The gut triad is very oriented to the "intelligence" sorting out purely what experiences they want to have and not. Move over to head types e.g. E6 and you get more of a spiraling into oneself constantly when trying to justify things.

    It's less to me about whether you make ethical judgments and respond in an ethics-centered way, because there are various approaches to ethics in terms of how an ethical attitude is considered justifiable by different schools of people.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Shadow View Post
    How are any of these things you all described nihilism? My understanding of nihilism is that the person believes everything is pointless, meaningless, and arbitrary, so you don't care about anything and you do what you want. They would be dispassionate, emotionless, apathetic, and indifferent to everything.
    Then....I'm not nihilistic and I would imagine those apt for apathy would or could be however sonce no human being is devoid of emotion I am not sure that anyone could be or any type
    . Maybe for brief moments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Then....I'm not nihilistic and I would imagine those apt for apathy would or could be however sonce no human being is devoid of emotion I am not sure that anyone could be or any type
    . Maybe for brief moments.

    Nihilism
    noun

    the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless.
    synonyms: skepticism, negativity, cynicism, pessimism

    Philosophy
    extreme skepticism maintaining that nothing in the world has a real existence.

    Historical
    the doctrine of an extreme Russian revolutionary party circa 1900, which found nothing to approve of in the established social order



    Its like an extreme form of atheism; I assume only someone who is in an unhealthy emotional state, is negativist, and/or has weak Fi would adopt this philosophy.
    MBTI: INTJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Shadow View Post
    Its like an extreme form of atheism; I assume only someone who is in an unhealthy emotional state, is negativist, and/or has weak Fi would adopt this philosophy.
    You might be on to something with the negativist thing, but, honestly, I doubt the adoption of nihilism requires anything more than someone being led to that conclusion. Whatever one reasons they will most likely believe whether they want to or not, and I don't think Fi is a function that irrationally (or rationally) tries to find hope-- that's more of a general human desperation. Maybe types such as ILEs and SLEs could grow disparaged over their inability to connect with people and thus feel hopeless and depressed, but that's obviously different than an adoption of the actual philosophy of nihilism.

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