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Thread: Guides for dual pairs: the capture and taming of LSEs/ESTjs

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    Default Guides for dual pairs: the capture and taming of LSEs/ESTjs

    Phase 1.) Be there, and be yourself

    Phase 2.) ?

    Phase 3.) Success



    Helpful Joy is helpful.



    Edited for update: See post #13 and #22.
    Last edited by Joy; 11-20-2014 at 07:35 PM. Reason: update
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    Seriously though, I do have some input to offer. I'll mentally brainstorm this a bit and post later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Phase 1.) Be there, and be yourself

    Phase 2.) ?

    Phase 3.) Success



    Helpful Joy is helpful.
    they always looked pretty tame to me already, are you sure you don't want to write a "how to set your LSE on fire and have eternal orgasms" guide instead?

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    if only

    As for being tamed (not tame), I could name a few exes who would disagree.
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    Actually, you're right. I need a new title.
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    chairpersonality Holon's Avatar
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    "LSE fly fishing for homebound EIIs: everything you ever wanted to know but were too afraid to ask."

    scribbles in the dark

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    lol fly fishing. "Oh! I got one!"

    I do want to keep the same format though. "Guides for dual pairs: the ________ and ________ of LSEs"
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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    The seduction and undressing of LSEs.
    <_<

    not where I was going with that
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    chairpersonality Holon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    lol fly fishing. "Oh! I got one!"

    I do want to keep the same format though. "Guides for dual pairs: the ________ and ________ of LSEs"
    Horse before the carriage. How are EIIs meant to do any kind of ______ to LSEs if they don't leave the house?

    scribbles in the dark

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    DISCLAIMER: I may possibly be the worst LSE in the world to write this post. Seriously, I suck. :-/ I'm going to give it a shot anyways though. My list is less organized than @silke's, and obviously what I'm writing here is from my perspective alone and therefore based on pretty limited experiences. Feel free to offer feedback so I can add info and/or make the list more accurate.


    -LSEs love giving practical advice, so don't hesitate to use them as a resource. If they do not know the answer, they can usually find it or in the very least direct you to a good place to get information. It's great fun, especially when the information or advice they give you turns out to be helpful.

    -Don't feel like you need to make small talk to get to know an LSE. Just jump right into the heavy stuff. (This applies to Deltas in general.)

    -The LSE will be happy to initiate, but they're more likely to do so if they're getting a “green light” from you. The green light does not need to be a big sweeping gesture or bold statement, but it does need to be free of mixed signals. Subtlety is fine, but that whole push/pull thing that some types are fond of is not. And whatever you do, do not flat out state that you're not interested in the LSE (unless it's true, of course) as this will ensure that nothing will ever happen between you and him/her.

    -If there's a situation you that you feel apprehensive about, feel free to communicate this to the LSE. They find it endearing. They will probably try to help out however they can, even if it's just suggesting alternative solutions or offering encouragement (however dry).

    -Expect the LSE may be at least somewhat unsure about how they feel and/or how deeply they feel it. Even when they're sure about what they want they will have worries about how things will turn out since they don't know for sure what they will continue to want it in the future.

    -Keep in mind that LSEs are inherently insecure and possibly even paranoid about Fi. They worry a fair amount that they're being somehow inappropriate or infringing on others (especially kind and gentle people). If they voice any of these concerns, sincere reassurance is greatly appreciated. If they are indeed crossing some kind of boundary, just them them know and they'll likely stop immediately.

    -Sometimes LSEs can snap at people out of frustration, offer sharper than necessary criticism, raise his/her voice, use a harsh tone, or say otherwise insensitive things. And sometimes EIIs can pout about this for DAYS. LSEs hate that! Don't let that stop you (or make you try to hide how upset you are) though as this is a pretty effective way to prevent such things from happening in the future. LSEs do not want to be a dick. They seriously don't even realize they're doing it, and they're not just doing it to you. This is one of the reasons that LSEs appreciate that EIIs are sensitive. It helps them learn to temper the way they communicate, and as a result they learn to avoid upsetting others as much, too. (To be clear for all who read this, the aforementioned “pouting” is the EII being genuinely upset. This behavior is not at all manipulative or punitive, which is precisely why it's so effective.)

    -If the problem isn't what the LSE is saying but instead what he/she is doing, maybe consider doing what my husband has always done: When I behave badly, he responds by being even nicer to me than usual (in his case that generally means doing stuff for me). My response is typically to feel guilty and think, “He doesn't deserve this,” and I correct my behavior.

    -If the LSE in question has a lot of emotional baggage from past experiences, then an extra degree of patience will be necessary. I suppose that's true for everyone but still think it's worth mentioning here.

    -Sex advice in this topic is completely unnecessary because LSEs handle that on an individual basis when the time comes. They're not shy about giving directions.

    -LSEs are terrified of hurting people but have no idea how to avoid it! Maybe you have some idea how to handle this. We sure as hell don't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holon View Post
    Horse before the carriage. How are EIIs meant to do any kind of ______ to LSEs if they don't leave the house?
    Go buy food. Then do it again. Then go do some other stuff. Being out and about will feel more natural the more you do it.
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    Oh yeah. I can't really change the title. Oh well.
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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post

    -LSEs are terrified of hurting people but have no idea how to avoid it! Maybe you have some idea how to handle this. We sure as hell don't.
    I'm confused. Isn't this like stereotypical Fi-POLR?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    I'm confused. Isn't this like stereotypical Fi-POLR?
    Fi polr and fi dual seeking are both 1D Fi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Fi polr and fi dual seeking are both 1D Fi.
    so wherein would the difference rest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    I'm confused. Isn't this like stereotypical Fi-POLR?
    It's probably even worse for Te dominants types because Fi is valued.

    I sent messages to a bunch of Delta rationals asking for feedback and have received some already. I'll post about that later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    so wherein would the difference rest?
    Okay, so I guess I do have some idea how this is at least partially resolved. The main difference is that for LxEs this insecurity is resolved through their hidden agenda and Fi (and Ni for LSEs, believe it or not) versus xLEs for whom this insecurity is resolved through... Ti and Fe? idk, ask one of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absvrd View Post
    Sounds liek something UDP would wrote. As a matter of fact and if my memory serves me right, he wrote a guide on "how to shower" or something, so I thought at first that this is an UDP reincarnation thread and Joy doesn't know how to take a shower.
    I've written a how to shower thread, too.
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    A few points suggested by an EII who got back to me about this:

    -LSEs are drawn to kindness and humility. I didn't even think to mention these traits because it's such an important thing (kindness especially) that in my head it was a given. I don't think I've ever known an EII who isn't those things though. She also mentioned empathy and consideration. I'll add trustworthiness while we're on the subject of unspoken absolute necessities.

    -If you do get practical advice from an LSE, they really like it if you promptly follow through on it and then let them know how it turned out. This is definitely true, but I purposely left it out because I didn't want to be all, "Do what I say as soon as practical and then report back to me!" about it. That kind of advice is given in a "take it or leave it" spirit, so LSEs don't get upset if you don't follow through. However, doing so definitely gives the LSE a warm and fuzzy feeling (though it's unlikely you'd know it by looking at them).

    -She also mentioned that LSEs can seem aloof so you have to gently coax them into a comfort zone with you and encourage them to vent by assuring them you're always there to listen. I'm not sure I would have put it quite this way, but it's also definitely true. This goes back to the thing about getting into heavy subjects with Deltas, but it goes a step beyond that. There's typical heavy stuff... and then there's the heavy stuff they aren't generally willing to talk to people about. LSEs have a difficult time knowing what they feel and why (especially about the bad stuff), and putting it into words helps them process it. If you can make an LSE feel comfortable talking to you about THAT heavy stuff then you've just made yourself indispensable. LSEs often don't recognize their need for catharsis, feel awkward talking about things that touch on deep (possibly unrealized) emotions, and generally assume that most people only want to hear so much (if any) of their shit. If you're asking questions that seem hard for them to answer but they try anyways and then come out with something deeply personal, you're on the right track.


    We talked about what I mean by needing patience to deal with LSEs. I told her I'd try to figure out what I was attempting to say there and get back to her. I'm still thinking about it, but I can say it's very much related to LSEs crappy Fi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    If the problem isn't what the LSE is saying but instead what he/she is doing, maybe consider doing what my husband has always done: When I behave badly, he responds by being even nicer to me than usual (in his case that generally means doing stuff for me). My response is typically to feel guilty and think, “He doesn't deserve this,” and I correct my behavior.
    For the record, since making this post I have talked to my husband about this, and he said that he didn't realize he was doing this. He wasn't even sure what I was talking about. I'm quite certain that it happens though!
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    What a hilarious title. I want some hunting analogy to go along with it, what kind of animal is LSE?

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    Did you change your type? For some reason I'm remembering you as ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryoka14 View Post
    Did you change your type? For some reason I'm remembering you as ILE
    Back in 2005 and 2006 I thought I was ILE.

    Quote Originally Posted by maithili View Post
    What a hilarious title. I want some hunting analogy to go along with it, what kind of animal is LSE?
    Good question!
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    I'm not offering advice. I have LSE. They are the booooooomb

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