SLI-ESI benefit relations (ISTp & ISFj)

[force my hand]

A relation of benefit, quoting wikisocion for context:

Benefit, or request, is an asymmetric relation in which the type with the higher status is called the benefactor (or request transmitter) and the type with the lower status is called the beneficiary (or request recipient). There is usually some kind of initial attraction going on, though not always mutual (the beneficiary will usually admire the benefactor's abilities from a distance), but after a while the benefactor realizes that he is supporting the beneficiary without receiving anything in return, and starts to criticize the beneficiary for not holding up his end of the relationship (and so issues a "request"). Meanwhile the beneficiary is irritated that the benefactor feels he has the right to interfere in and try to mold the beneficiary's behavior. If too close a distance is maintained both parties will ultimately feel unfulfilled.

Any insight into possibly-unique situations that might arise from SLI-ESI? I'm having trouble thinking of any beyond the typical give-and-take of normal social interaction.

[force my hand]

Probably involves Te, and the ISFj finding the ISTp admirable for all his skills with it.

At least in the case I'm thinking of, simplistic Ne - strangely enough - seems to be appreciated the most (superficially, at least, with respect to the response I get). In a small, related way, this agrees with another statement from the wiki:

ESIs are often amused by, and attracted to, demonstrations of the intense use of by others if at least tangentially connected to ideas that might have some practical use ( ); but they are repelled by it if used in such a way as to excessively contextualize ethics to the point of irrelevancy.

Quite frankly, I don't really understand it.

[force my hand]

That wiki quote re: Ne is accurate for me.

But I think ESIs and SLIs get along better than the relation of benefit would suggest because they don't ime tend to get very close and SLIs tend to imo be rather patient and not prone to trying to tell someone else how to be. So the benefit issues don't really come up. There does seem to remain a kind of distance though, even among long-time friends. That's only my opinion though, from my own limited experience.

I'm almost wondering, all things being equal, that given the nature of Fi for both types, a sort of goodwilled truce/respect develops.

[Expat]

I wrote that quote on for ESIs in the wiki.

The kinds of that ESIs don't seem to like or value are (1) those connected to , like in the discussions between the IEE Andrew Sullivan and the ESI Christopher Hitchens, which I think ESIs see as basically "missing the point" of their own ; and (2) when becomes a quagmire of "what if" and "what could go wrong" scenarios - "neutralizing" so to speak.

However, ESIs do seem to appreciate it when is connected to as in "hey this would be a better way of doing this" or "if only we could do that, we'd make a lot of money" etc etc. Not only I had already gotten this impression from Diana, this is also confirmed by how the ESI Queen Noor described her interactions with Ted Turner, who I think is ILE. She enjoyed his outflow of ideas for achieving things and making money, even as many of them were clearly unrealistic.

Regarding SLI-ESI relationships, I know very well an example of a SLI guy and his ESI sister. They have a warm relationship, and indeed as a sort of "quiet distance".

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I've tended to get on with ESI's personally. In regards to Te, one that I got on best with seemed to appreciate my practical approach to situations and my particular way of reasoning. Wether that's somewhat Te related (probably) or just thinking i'm some sort of ok person-probably a bit of both no doubt.

[discojoe]

The only problem I've had with my ISTp dad is when I say something harsh, (like when I said my evil aunt deserved to be killed) and he's put off by the lack of Ne, so then I get a bunch of Te/Ne prattle about how I'm wrong.

[Blaze]

asymetrical relation in a number of ways.

SLI has some Te for the ESI, but in not enough of a dose. so ESI finds SLI pleasant, although there's not enough Te. not enough=try to get some more, so ESI is attracted to SLI.

on the other hand ESI has Fi but in too high of a dose; for SLI it's overkill. the Fi bombards the hidden agenda of the SLI.

then there's no Ne for SLI at all, since it's the ESI polr. there's a little Ni for ESI, but it's coming from the role function of SLI, so again, there's like a lack of a full dose, but yet it's there in a tantalizing enough amount, which keeps ESI interested. SLI gives pretty effortlessly, since these functions come from his conscious and basically define who he is.

but i don't see how SLI gets much out of this at all or really how any benefactor in relations of benefit for that matter, gets much out of the relation. hence the asymetry.

[force my hand]

Thanks for the responses guys. I'll try to reply to all in the future once I've had the chance to think a bit, but this in particular caught my eye:

on the other hand ESI has Fi but in too high of a dose; for SLI it's overkill. the Fi bombards the hidden agenda of the SLI.

Personally, it seems that what I crave with respect to Fi is a lot more light and superficial than how the ESI wields it. It's like I don't get what I expect, and what I do receive (in my mind) would be better presented in Te terms. So it's like I don't fully value it.

[ashlesha]

how is a relationship with an esi and an sli likely to play out, theoretically?

(I'm just bored and curious if the responses will reflect my own experience. just for kicks, but you can consider it a skill challenge if it pleases you.)

[InvisibleJim]

So many socionics assumptions about individual preferences that don't make any sense when considering communication style

[ashlesha]

@NobleFool - hit and miss, with more miss than hit. but i wasn't expecting anybody to actually respond, so thanks.

[fairylights]

Hmm, let me see. Well, I know one SLI and while I respect him and his beliefs quite a lot on an abstract level, we end up butting heads in reality.

I feel like he thinks I'm a little heedless and childish. Thinks I'm too thoughtless and peremptory and possibly a little too crude.
I respect his measured attitude to life but find it irksome to operate the same way. I also believe he thinks I overreact to unimportant things.

For my part, he doesn't have enough energy for my liking. If someone wants to supervise me or set me right, they need to have a little more oomph and sparkle to their personality, otherwise I just feel deflated and bored. I'm no Speedy Gonzalez myself, but his pace is too slow even for my liking. I can feel the energy leaking away and I don't like having to second guess myself in reaction to spoken or implicit condescension.

[Absurd]

Theoretically the same way intertype relations predict(?)

In practice, taking into account numerous factors, it may play out differently. It's no longer a sterile environment nor lab. One thing is known - when theory doesn't meet practice, somebody may be wrong.

[blackburry]

I dated an SLI years ago.Also my brother is SLI.


I respect both of them for their strengths. They are both mechanically inclined- both can build anything from scratch or fix anything, it was very cool to watch.
Both let things roll off their back (supposedly.. or from the outside it looked as such, though really they would just hold it all until they exploded).
Both liked to be nudged in the right direction but not explicitly told what to do.
Both get annoyed easily but hide it well (except when they explode on you).
Both really went with the flow on most things.
When they would complain it would seem almost out of nowhere.. like they would complain about things that happened weeks ago...

Both love heart felt conversations. Both thought I should be more... bubbly and carefree.
Both would say really rude things to me out of nowhere and with zero prodding on my part.
Both were extremely awkward to waitstaff and/or would overcompensate and try to be friendly but it would come off creepy.
Both were very cheap.


anywho. the guy and I became acquaintances and haven't spoken in.. like three years or so. and my brother is my brother so I'll be there for him regardless.

but overall, our interactions are pretty boring. we give each other unsolicited advice. It's fun to do things with my brother once in a while and I like him to teach me things.
He's really good with my dog and I'm pretty sure that my dog loves him more than me.

[fairylights]

but overall, our interactions are pretty boring. we give each other unsolicited advice.

Yeah, this is true for me as well.

On the whole, I get bored and annoyed with that one SLI I described (and a couple of other suspected SLIs) but feel like it's MY fault, which makes me feel even more annoyed.

[ashlesha]

On the whole, I get bored and annoyed with that one SLI I described (and a couple of other suspected SLIs) but feel like it's MY fault, which makes me feel even more annoyed.

ding ding ding

[yeves]

song about an ESI - SLI benefit pair

[carrina]

how is a relationship with an esi and an sli likely to play out, theoretically?

(I'm just bored and curious if the responses will reflect my own experience. just for kicks, but you can consider it a skill challenge if it pleases you.)

I was I'm one for a few years I admired him for a long time. Sli proposed a close friendship. We fell in love. I tried to remain phsycologically distant due to my paranoia of his strong dislikes. He persued me hard. Always there was distance. Tons of good sex. I moved in got pregnant. I held respect for him always. He always treated me low priority. We began to dislike eachother. He grew more and more bitter towards me. We finally ended it on good terms. Are still good friends. He persues me when I evade him. When we're too close he is majorly put off by me. He foolishly still persues me no matter how much I try to remind him that we don't really like eachother enough to be in a long term relationship. We go back and forth like this. Were great friends and have tons of goodwill towards eachother.

[silke]

An example of ESI-SLI benefit relations (him as ESI-Fi, her as SLI-Si).

He is trying to protect her from making poor choices and associating with 'bad' in his view people (Gamma -Fi), while she thinks that he is overdoing it, trying to fix problems that aren't there, pressuring and undermining her. At the same time, he feels like he is the only one who sees all the 'lies' and the problems in her relationships (-Fi), but that she doesn't hear him and isn't fully supportive of him (whatever the beneficiary says, the benefactor only hears a part of it).

To draw attention to these problems in his relatioship, he tries to intensify and shake things up. While his immediacy and vigilance makes sense for the Se-valuing ESI-LIE dyad, it makes little sense to his SLI fiance who wants him to quit it.

This is classical benefit relations where the beneficiary sees the issues benefactor has on their hidden agenda, attempts to help, but overdoes it (ESI leading -Fi has too strong of an effect for SLI Fi HA) while being heard only part way, which leaves both the benefactor and beneficiary exasperated with each other in a relationship.

"Should I Marry My Controlling, Alienating, Jealous Fiancé?"