Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Relations of benefit differ so much depending on type?

  1. #1
    8 Encrustacean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    mobius strip
    TIM
    shitting razorblades
    Posts
    22
    Mentioned
    84 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Relations of benefit differ so much depending on type?

    This post has been removed.
    Last edited by Encrustacean; 12-29-2014 at 12:58 AM.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Not sure anymore if I have benefit relations, I think it's actually semidual so sorry can't share experiences on that. My brother is still LIE but that's not a romantic relationship obviously I think I've known a few ESEs very superficially and they are funny but are also just annoying a lot of the time really... LIE seems much more interesting than ESE overall.

  3. #3
    nefnaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    89
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just a small correction -- cognitive styles always correspond to duality in benefit relations. This is because benefit rings are aligned to either process or result, as with supervision rings.

    It is true that erotic attitudes, i.e. Judicious/Decisive trait will match in benefit relations with a rational benefactor, although it's not clear how much more important that is for romance than Merry/Serious trait. I've never personally dated an SLI so I can't comment from experience on which "direction" is preferable.

  4. #4
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,129
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Judicious / decisive - "youre going about this the wrong way"
    Merry / serious - "I cant believe you came to that conclusion"

    As an introverted irrational, here'smy generalization. J.D. match is better long term stability, M.S. is better for getiing attracted. Pick and choose.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

  5. #5
    . willekeurig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,512
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    From my past experiencs I'd say I prefer SEIs over ILIs for all types of relationships
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

  6. #6
    bolong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    626
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think EIEs prefer SEIs for spouses. Especially for completely non-dualized EIEs, who might find LSIs too hard and different. SEIs are so soft that it's almost like the EIE is not even being supervised.

    With EIE-SEE the SEE will sooner or later peace out. For SEE it's a matter of recognizing the imbalance and becoming aware that being a beneficiary all the time is limiting their freedom. But once they're aware it's not hard to force their way out of the Fe cocoon with Se. (I hope that didn't come off as overly simple).

    Interestingly I know a lot of EIE girls who are attracted to ILE males, but they never work out well. I'm generalizing a little shamelessly here but EIE cannot really keep ILE interested, unless ILE is a social climber and the EIE is a promising source of status. And if a Ti-creative is not that into you but stays with you, they are totally using you. In fact even a Ti-creative who is totally into you will try to use you.

  7. #7
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    7,966
    Mentioned
    568 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maithili View Post
    I think EIEs prefer SEIs for spouses. Especially for completely non-dualized EIEs, who might find LSIs too hard and different. SEIs are so soft that it's almost like the EIE is not even being supervised.

    With EIE-SEE the SEE will sooner or later peace out. For SEE it's a matter of recognizing the imbalance and becoming aware that being a beneficiary all the time is limiting their freedom. But once they're aware it's not hard to force their way out of the Fe cocoon with Se. (I hope that didn't come off as overly simple).

    Interestingly I know a lot of EIE girls who are attracted to ILE males, but they never work out well. I'm generalizing a little shamelessly here but EIE cannot really keep ILE interested, unless ILE is a social climber and the EIE is a promising source of status. And if a Ti-creative is not that into you but stays with you, they are totally using you. In fact even a Ti-creative who is totally into you will try to use you.
    I find age/levels of development has a lot to do with quality of benefit relations, with benefactor being necessarily more independent. Benefactor can give duality functions thru contact functions and beneficiary can only deploy dual functions inertly, one being POLR, benefactor has to give beneficiary distance and fulfill their requests while beneficiary cannot provide 100% return investment. This is the asymmetry of the relationship. This asymmetry is however a very powerful force and the bonding of the individuals is dependent on a lot of other factors.

    Basically from what I've read, benefactor must give distance and accept limited satisfaction in the relationship for it to work. Beneficiary need to resist the urge to usurp control. FWIW extroverted benefit relations seems more explosive and volatile.

    From my experience what you say about ILE males is true to a certain extent, but it's often the EIE that's a social climber and the ILE that is socially engaged. I think the idea of using people is fairly trivial, everyone more or less use each other at some level. Also from my observation, although in many ways romance styles make relationships easier to engage from the decisive/judicious dichotomy. Merry/Serious dichotomy is the source of emotional communication and emotional connection which becomes more important for long term relations and friendship.

  8. #8
    bolong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    626
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    I find age/levels of development has a lot to do with quality of benefit relations, with benefactor being necessarily more independent. Benefactor can give duality functions thru contact functions and beneficiary can only deploy dual functions inertly, one being POLR, benefactor has to give beneficiary distance and fulfill their requests while beneficiary cannot provide 100% return investment. This is the asymmetry of the relationship. This asymmetry is however a very powerful force and the bonding of the individuals is dependent on a lot of other factors.

    Basically from what I've read, benefactor must give distance and accept limited satisfaction in the relationship for it to work. Beneficiary need to resist the urge to usurp control. FWIW extroverted benefit relations seems more explosive and volatile.

    From my experience what you say about ILE males is true to a certain extent, but it's often the EIE that's a social climber and the ILE that is socially engaged. I think the idea of using people is fairly trivial, everyone more or less use each other at some level. Also from my observation, although in many ways romance styles make relationships easier to engage from the decisive/judicious dichotomy. Merry/Serious dichotomy is the source of emotional communication and emotional connection which becomes more important for long term relations and friendship.
    I knew this would come up, Ti-creative justifying its actions LOL

    My response was ready too: 1) Even if everyone uses everyone, Ti-creative is less adept at making the person being used feel better, which makes what they did worse. At least for the poor used person.

    2) There are, in fact, some people who do NOT use others at all, or at least try very hard not to, and repent it for a long time if it happened. And if you want to narrow it down to type, these are the IXFx, because it is more difficult for us to pretend we like someone we don't like than it is to stay with that person and try to extract some benefits (this applies to platonic relationships too).
    Last edited by bolong; 11-21-2014 at 05:20 AM.

  9. #9
    bolong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    626
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    This is good stuff - I'll keep it in mind before I make a mistake, lol

    I'd be interested to hear more about intertype relations from you, you seem to have some experience in this area..
    Are you EIE??

  10. #10
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    7,966
    Mentioned
    568 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maithili View Post
    I knew this would come up, Ti-creative justifying its actions LOL

    My response was ready too: 1) Even if everyone uses everyone, Ti-creative is less adept at making the person being used feel better, which makes what they did worse. At least for the poor used person.

    2) There are, in fact, some people who do NOT use others at all, or at least try very hard not to, and repent it for a long time if it happened. And if you want to narrow it down to type, these are the IXFx, because it is more difficult for us to pretend we like someone we don't like than it is to stay with that person and try to extract some benefits.
    IMO Ti creatives don't really care to make people feel better or particularly work at the whole Fi thing. It's sort of their way of dealing with people, they want to be recognized for other stuff not a popularity contest.

    IXFx are quite adept at using people, their duals are all extx types who are adept at business type relationships. They can't quite handle the give and take that reality presents, so they let someone else act as a agent for them in these matters. This especially goes for Ti creatives who are willing to get their hands dirty for their few friends and partners in whatever manner of questionable actions reality might require of them. Ti creative are basically attractive to various other individuals for this particular trait of theirs.

    Also a curious thing about super-ego is that XLE's are like some of the most generous types in the socion, often frivolous with their spending on loved ones and gifting extravagantly. A individual isn't just the ego, they're also the super-ego, id, super-id. At a certain level the IXFx type are the most relationship using types and often extremely demanding in a close relationship of their partner/children/etc. All functions get manifested in close relations, not merely ego.

    Socionics isn't ego, that's just the label.

  11. #11
    netflix and don't touch me Emmym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Midwest
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    286
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have to sort of agree with the ILE here, as much as I hate to say it, haha. All types use people. I would even say IXFx types use people more than most, we're just more stealthy about it, with EXFx types seeming the least stealthy about it IMO. I would even arguably say that ILEs are more harmless because they're generally pretty transparent, though not as much as SLEs. And the reactions ILEs have when you cut them off is nothing compared to the melodrama and guilt tripping IEIs and EIIs will pull out of their arsenal.

  12. #12
    bolong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    626
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    At a certain level the IXFx type are the most relationship using types and often extremely demanding in a close relationship of their partner/children/etc.
    I agree with this but

    I would even say IXFx types use people more than most, we're just more stealthy about it
    this is oversimplifying. I can make someone miserable if I have the power to affect them, and I've been hurt by them. But I'm really bad at using people. So is EII.

  13. #13
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't use people. It's immoral, sometimes can be unethical, it's rude and just stupid thing to do. Tell me how it helps cultivate and nurture relations?

  14. #14
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,520
    Mentioned
    233 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is an interesting theory that you put good thought to, Spider, and probably there is something to it. Since my exhusband was ESE, it matches. Benefactor can never really appreciate his Benefactee, so in the long run this is not good for Benefactee. I have heard it said that Benefit always ends with the Benefactor leaving for someone else. So Benefactees beware. But being romantically matched did work for a good start. I was glad I did not have anything to be bitter or messed up about in that department. Being an erotic mismatch could leave one questioning oneself after a time. Two obstinate types means someone always has to give in (that would have been me). It was very invalidating. But we had other problems that made it impossible. I was serious and he merry and he definitely thought I was too serious. He always thought I should be more involved in our church (committees, group activities) and that that was a failing of mine, and I thought I was involved enough (Fe/Fi).
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  15. #15
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    7,966
    Mentioned
    568 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    This is an interesting theory that you put good thought to, Spider, and probably there is something to it. Since my exhusband was ESE, it matches. Benefactor can never really appreciate his Benefactee, so in the long run this is not good for Benefactee. I have heard it said that Benefit always ends with the Benefactor leaving for someone else. So Benefactees beware. But being romantically matched did work for a good start. I was glad I did not have anything to be bitter or messed up about in that department. Being an erotic mismatch could leave one questioning oneself after a time. Two obstinate types means someone always has to give in (that would have been me). It was very invalidating. But we had other problems that made it impossible. I was serious and he merry and he definitely thought I was too serious. He always thought I should be more involved in our church (committees, group activities) and that that was a failing of mine, and I thought I was involved enough (Fe/Fi).
    Benefit relations have a certain quality to them that's hard to avoid and it's probably one of the top 3 relations by my assessment over all. However it's not one that leaves a lot of independence for the Benefactee and it can leave the Benefactor wanting.

    Ted Turner + Jane Fonda is the most famous and familiar of the Benefit relations I've witnessed. ILE(Ted) - EIE(Jane) is fairly familiar to me as a Atlanta resident.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-daughter.html
    http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-...sband-20122010
    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...ticle-1.334721
    http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Janes...-Divorce-Video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcTK804tGS0

    It's a interesting relationship, certainly important but probably something that defined those 10 years they were together and perhaps even the rest after. This was always a strange relationship but in hindsight of analysis, it is a rather obvious one.

    Also as a side note, Ted also happens to be in a supervision friendship with one of his oldest and best friends Jimmy Carter (EII). Another strange who would have thought it would happen friendships that makes perfect sense.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •