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    Default Me stuff and enneagram

    Hi. The stackings threads mainly leave me perplexed and stalemated. Do I relate to any of that shit?

    So I would appreciate some help on me me me and enneagram, from those of you into e-gram.

    I've shied away from typing myself sx/sp or sp/sx -- in part out of a contrarian impulse. I especially avoid notions of sx/sp, because of the tendency for people to type themselves that way as if were a point of pride.

    As in look at me, I'm so intense 'n' stuff. Burn . . .

    I'm aware of social dynamics. That could simply be Fe.

    I've actually been described as intense. That could be attributable to god knows what.

    So how can I determine my stacking? I think I'm E6, btw.

    I rarely begin a thread, so don't ignore this one.
    Last edited by golden; 10-24-2014 at 01:10 AM.

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    IF YOU WANT TO BE SX/SP, WE WILL NEED YOU TO BE MORE INTENSE !!!!


    Sorry, couldn't help myself


    Total shoot in the dark, but you seem syn-flow to me, so sp/so or sx/sp, leaning to the first, only by impression in shoutbox .


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    I think instinctual stackings is one of the fuzzier areas of enneagram, which is saying a lot since it's fuzzy by itself. Roughly speaking, I'd use the guideline sx=instinct of attraction/connectedness (connection does NOT have to be to people), so=instinct corresponding to social adaptation (so this, if anything, is the "people" instinct), and sp=preserving yourself.

    My general comments are that a lot of stuff that seems to be attributed to head types sounds sp (and a lot of stuff attributed to gut types too), a lot of stuff attributed to heart types sounds so or sx, and so on.

    So it kind of really depends what you want to determine. Half of that E5 stuff and "feeling overwhelemed by the outside" honestly doesn't sound too incongruent with a general self-preservation need though perhaps the manner of preservation in that case does sound head-typey. Preserving oneself can be about wellness. It can also be about simply preserving the ego-structure from collapse - so for instance for a E8 this could be simply maintaining their sense of distance from fear.

    What I'd say is roughly as one way of seeing things is that instinctual impulses are things we respond to via the different centers (instinctual would be direct, mind/heart other ways).
    So the sx-head instinct is interesting because you get a center focused on fear and aversion, and inhibition, except pursuing the sexual drive, which is unmistakably related to attraction (going towards fiercely vs moving away from or inhibiting sounds contradictory and is). Possibly this is why the center type E6 sx was called a countertype. With E7, if you notice, the effect tends to be to intensify their falling asleep to their aversion, through a frantic search for the ultimate point of attraction that is generally doomed to never be satisfied. With E5, it is also quite odd because of their unrelatedness to that which is outside them. I could see this as a very self-submerged attraction which intensifies the attraction through separation of the self from outside quantities.
    E6 sx is often shown as the sx instinct in direct conflict with aversion, hence a simultaneous need for the attraction values to be fulfilled and the points of aversion to be addressed somehow (that is, directly negated). This is why this often is portrayed as the counterphobic 6, although I think it better not to assume any special traits (like daredevil). There would be a tendency to reject the dominant emotion (fear) in some way directly though. This is a subtle thing because it's not E8 - the reasons for rejection are different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    Total shoot in the dark, but you seem syn-flow to me, so sp/so or sx/sp, leaning to the first, only by impression in shoutbox .
    I'm still not deeply sure what is meant by syn-flow, tbh. I'm reading about enneagram for the first time in a while.

    In general with typology, I need person-to-person information and examples to infuse some life into it. But in case this is relevant: I can be misanthropic when it comes to humanity at large, and generous and protective when it comes to people I care about individually. I really want to care about ppl individually, and I follow that impulse when it arises. Syn-? Contra-?

    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    Preserving oneself can be about wellness. It can also be about simply preserving the ego-structure from collapse - so for instance for a E8 this could be simply maintaining their sense of distance from fear.
    There is a way in which I'm extremely self-preserving, and that is emotionally / psychologically. I will push and pull in my important relationships in order to find ways to feel safe. To my detriment, because by driving a loved person into a place of uncertainty, I increase the likelihood it will all go to shit.

    I've made massive life decisions out of a wish to feel secure. Bad and stupid ones, often. Not sure if that is related to sp. Or 6? Or NTR.
    Last edited by golden; 10-23-2014 at 10:06 PM.

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    You don't seem sx-first. Sp-first may be a good fit. I wouldn't use being described as intense as an sx-first thingy (especially if you're Beta ), same way I wouldn't think someone is social if they are sociable especially since social firsts can be very shy, anti-social and misanthropic.

    To determine stacking or rather, the dominant instinct, you could try thinking of what really makes you behave unhealthy or triggers your type's fixation. Or think of what you make yourself a hero or victim in. Gauge your strongest positive and negative reactions and stuff, pinpointing what domain it lies in best. For secondary, maybe think of which you are most comfortable dealing with but don't find as important to satisfy than the dominant and for the weakest, what sort of urks you and what you're a bit insecure and pessimistic about but also procrastinate or not crazy about pertaining to.

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    you speak pretty confidently about people & trends concerning people re: geography, where people are coming from emotionally, etc. in a non-projective, open kind of way. i'm not sure where the line is between the social instinct and other factors like Fe when it comes to this stuff. but i think you are not SO-last. other than that, i'm not sure. none of the instincts strike me as a blind or weak spot for you.

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    I've made massive life decisions out of a wish to feel secure. Bad and stupid ones, often. Not sure if that is related to sp. Or 6? Or NTR.
    Well there's no consistency in enneagram really due to this author saying this and that author saying that; this could be E6 - it definitely is in the common tests you find online.

    The way I prefer most is that instincts tell you roughly what your impulse is to need in a primitive form - together with the passions, this defines your basic drive. The instincts are sort of basic impulses telling us towards what we act. The passions on the other hand are like variations of basic emotional tones - you can think of the fear triad as a negative tone, the instinctual one as a neutral tone, and the image triad as the positive one. One seeks to address negative impacts to the ego structure, the other seeks to bring significance to the ego (notice how E4 gets close to the fear triad, so the negative tone defines how they see through their positive tone in part - they focus on the lack of significance). There are then blends of these at the crosspoints between triads.
    Notice that these tones are more how you filter things, not what you seek out, which is pursued through the filter but isn't equal to it, and is more equal to the object of your instinctual impulse. For instance, a social 6 may seek out to get rid of all threats to a group it wants to belong to.

    If you discuss your instinct/enneatype interplay maybe?

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    Try thinking of each instinct as a set of impulses or inclinations. Every person experiences some of the impulses from each set, but not every impulse is followed by a type. Basically, which of the following impulses do you have? Which is the fundamental one(s), the one that must be followed before any other can be? Which of the impulses occupies the majority of your energy, thoughts, efforts, etc?

    Which of the following are you inclined to do? (Feel free to reword or add on.)

    Nesting & Nurturing (the desire to ensure not only that we survive, but that those who carry our genes survive and prosper, and that we have the resources necessary to ensure that survival.)
    Inclination to...
    * Ensure that my family's and my fundamental survival needs are met.
    * Preserve, store, and hoard supplies, knowledge, and traditions, passing them down, ensuring the survival from generation to generation.
    * Ensure that my family and I are safe and secure,
    * Ensure my family and I have health. Monitor for potential illness or threats to our health.
    * Ensure the resources and circumstances my family and I need to survive, (and thrive?)
    * Ensure my family and I have comfort. Seek chairs, clothing, temperatures etc that are "just right" (ala Goldilocks)
    * Talk about my home, my health, my comfort, and/or my physical and financial security.


    Navigating Our Social Environment (The desire to effectively navigate our social group/tribe so we can survive or thrive as a member of a social species.)
    Inclination to . . .
    * Observe the behavior of others in the group to better understand human nature,
    * Compare and contrast people, behaviors, and choices.
    * Talk about other people - who is doing what with whom and why;
    * Observe the behavior of others in the group to learn who I can trust and who I can't, (Reputation)
    * Manage my own reputation. Improve my chances of being trusted by others, thereby remaining an accepted member of the group.
    * Know who is allied with whom, and who is not. Who is in a relationship with whom, and the nature of that relationship.
    * Know how these alliances/relationships can be built/influenced/broken.
    * Build and maintain alliances and Reciprocal relationships- a social support network of give and take, mutual support


    Attracting & Transmitting (The desire to demonstrate our reproductive fitness (which increases the statistical likelihood of passing on our genes and other information).)
    Inclination to . . .
    * Seek stimulation. This pushes us into interacting with our world, increasing our chances of meeting other potential carriers/transmitters.
    * Express my beliefs, values, ideas interests, and/or world views. (Serves to a) make others carriers of that information, and b) attract the attention of a desirable mate.)
    * Talk about myself - my accomplishments, my relationships, my possessions, and/or my activities.
    * Talk about sex.
    * Attract attention to myself through my appearance, my charm, my possessions, and/or my skills. (This improves our chances of having sex, of transmitting ideas etc, and helps us survive (child getting attention from adults.)
    * To mate, transmit my genes



    Example:
     

    1. Fundamental: (Nothing past this point if this isn't met.)
    * Ensure that my family's and my fundamental survival needs are met. (Food, water, shelter, energy power, communications, transportation, safety). {sp}

    2. Primary: (Occupies the majority of my energy.)
    * Seek stimulation. {sx}
    * Gather and store supplies and knowledge that support interests and skills/knowledge type of stimulation seeking. {sx & sp}
    * Gather and store supplies and knowledge to support pursuits of safety, nutrition, fitness, mental health, etc. {sx & sp}
    * Seek chairs, clothing, temperatures etc that are "just right" (ala Goldilocks) (especially for spine health) {sp}
    * Ensure that my family and I are safe and secure. {sp}

    3. Secondary: (Usually when bored or looking for passive stimulation.)
    * Talk about my activities, interests. {sx}
    * Observe the behavior of others to better understand human nature. {so}
    * Compare and contrast people, behaviors, and choices. {so}
    * Share my understandings about all the above. {sx}



    So, which are your top inclinations?
    Last edited by anndelise; 10-24-2014 at 03:06 PM.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    For Gelden I could only have in mind Sp/so>So/sp>So/sx. She usually doesn't get too personal (sharing super-private feelings, preferences or other psychic phenomena) which kind of eliminates So last. So last has a form of egotism that is easy to notice even online ... most of what she says is well-placed in a social configuration and smooth. She has something like a bird's eye view on people (not a focus on a few as if "from inside") and she seems kind of structured and individualistic rather than chaotic. I don't see the so/sx impulse to move around in circles so as to bond with many in a warm and quasi-intimate way too often. I would go for Sp/so... I recall how she said "modern" is anything that feels meaningful/good to her in the poetry thread. I can see that as sp first. (awareness of the trends, but a form of independence from them ...)

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    I prefer not to create long posts, but I'm going to multiquote and try to wrap this up somewhat.

    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    If you discuss your instinct/enneatype interplay maybe?
    You discussed the disparate treatments of enneagram, thanks for acknowledging that. It takes time to reach one's own conclusions about typologies when sources overlap but disagree. I'm not there yet.

    If I could accurately assess instinct / enneatype interplay for myself, I probably wouldn't need to make this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
     

    Nesting & Nurturing (the desire to ensure not only that we survive, but that those who carry our genes survive and prosper, and that we have the resources necessary to ensure that survival.)
    Inclination to...
    * Ensure that my family's and my fundamental survival needs are met.
    * Preserve, store, and hoard supplies, knowledge, and traditions, passing them down, ensuring the survival from generation to generation.
    * Ensure that my family and I are safe and secure,
    * Ensure my family and I have health. Monitor for potential illness or threats to our health.
    * Ensure the resources and circumstances my family and I need to survive, (and thrive?)
    * Ensure my family and I have comfort. Seek chairs, clothing, temperatures etc that are "just right" (ala Goldilocks)
    * Talk about my home, my health, my comfort, and/or my physical and financial security.


    Navigating Our Social Environment (The desire to effectively navigate our social group/tribe so we can survive or thrive as a member of a social species.)
    Inclination to . . .
    * Observe the behavior of others in the group to better understand human nature,
    * Compare and contrast people, behaviors, and choices.
    * Talk about other people - who is doing what with whom and why;
    * Observe the behavior of others in the group to learn who I can trust and who I can't, (Reputation)
    * Manage my own reputation. Improve my chances of being trusted by others, thereby remaining an accepted member of the group.
    * Know who is allied with whom, and who is not. Who is in a relationship with whom, and the nature of that relationship.
    * Know how these alliances/relationships can be built/influenced/broken.
    * Build and maintain alliances and Reciprocal relationships- a social support network of give and take, mutual support


    Attracting & Transmitting (The desire to demonstrate our reproductive fitness (which increases the statistical likelihood of passing on our genes and other information).)
    Inclination to . . .
    * Seek stimulation. This pushes us into interacting with our world, increasing our chances of meeting other potential carriers/transmitters.
    * Express my beliefs, values, ideas interests, and/or world views. (Serves to a) make others carriers of that information, and b) attract the attention of a desirable mate.)
    * Talk about myself - my accomplishments, my relationships, my possessions, and/or my activities.
    * Talk about sex.
    * Attract attention to myself through my appearance, my charm, my possessions, and/or my skills. (This improves our chances of having sex, of transmitting ideas etc, and helps us survive (child getting attention from adults.)
    * To mate, transmit my genes
    What interests me in your descriptions (and your own relationship to them) is this: I could very well be Sp first, but only with the proviso that I don't manifest it as usually indicated, nor as you describe for yourself.

    The biggest match is my sensitivity to the environment, nation/state/city/neighborhood/home/room. That is, I wilt in the "wrong" place. At the personal level, I care hugely about my home environment from the standpoint of design and flow. I don't see comfort as a big squishy chair, but as good, appropriate, livable design, creating a place where everyone's needs are anticipated and met.

    Similar for clothing, food, I want everyone to be taken care of. I feel it's my responsibility. I see problems and solutions in these areas while other people don't.

    However, I am not great with carrying out massive amounts of cleaning, cooking is not high on my list of priorities (I try to do it well when I do it). I'm not great with money, I'm middle ground on safety concerns. I DON'T usually want to be out in nature.

    I actually have struggled in this whole area, most of my life, but it's very important to me, so I expend most of my energy here, I think, simply because it's hard. That could be Sp first even if I feel inadequacies here.

    What you describe as So . . . these are things I largely take for granted. I feel that it's a resource rather than a struggle. I began to develop some social mastery according to my own preferences by my early teens. My goal was to create a buffer between myself and dumb, nasty people (sorry if that sounds judgy, but it's realistic ime). To be in a position where they could not reach me but I was free to watch the whole charade play out and understand our world from a, well, safe position.

    Sx I also take for granted in a way. I cannot seem to live without a partner. I do enjoy deeply bonding with a partner. Sex per se matters to me very much. I do seek out intense, stimulating experiences. But I'm easily overstimulated, I can get threatened if I feel I can't "breathe" in my relationships, and my ultimate motivation may be toward building a secure world with another person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agni View Post
    For Gelden I could only have in mind Sp/so>So/sp>So/sx. She usually doesn't get too personal (sharing super-private feelings, preferences or other psychic phenomena) which kind of eliminates So last. So last has a form of egotism that is easy to notice even online ... most of what she says is well-placed in a social configuration and smooth. She has something like a bird's eye view on people (not a focus on a few as if "from inside") and she seems kind of structured and individualistic rather than chaotic. I don't see the so/sx impulse to move around in circles so as to bond with many in a warm and quasi-intimate way too often. I would go for Sp/so... I recall how she said "modern" is anything that feels meaningful/good to her in the poetry thread. I can see that as sp first. (awareness of the trends, but a form of independence from them ...)
    I think Sp/so is strongly possible. I also don't see how I could be So last. That said, some of the stock descriptions of this stacking (along with So/sp) actually repel me, and some information on Sp is impossible for me to relate to.

    I don't think I'm shiny enough for So/sx or vice versa. I can certainly circulate socially, but I'm probably heavier and more purposeful in the doing than that stacking implies.

    If we can assume that the stackings will manifest in a variety of ways and I'm not a health-nut farmer wannabe who hoards stuff and waves flags, then Sp/so will work for me barring further information or insight.

    Thanks to everyone who has given me their input, it's very helpful.
    Last edited by golden; 10-24-2014 at 06:34 PM.

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    what do you feel most constantly anxious about?
    There was no place that destruction did not touch...At best it made everything feel flooded, urgent, while pushing towards decay and exposing the imminent failure of managing to maintain a form at all. Inside this was the kernel of wholeness. She could be broken down into a small, granular piece, a bit of debris jostling against other bits of debris, and in that friction there was some sense of having a boundary or a presence, and that thing-ness of the self, reduced to a basic instinctive sensation, was an almost-nothing feeling that, in its small hard knot of a numb halo, made it clear to her that you were here, you were now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    what do you feel most constantly anxious about?
    Sp things.

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    oh ps not sure if this is helpful but if you think you're type 6 here are the instinct descriptions

    http://personalitycafe.com/type-6-fo...stackings.html
    There was no place that destruction did not touch...At best it made everything feel flooded, urgent, while pushing towards decay and exposing the imminent failure of managing to maintain a form at all. Inside this was the kernel of wholeness. She could be broken down into a small, granular piece, a bit of debris jostling against other bits of debris, and in that friction there was some sense of having a boundary or a presence, and that thing-ness of the self, reduced to a basic instinctive sensation, was an almost-nothing feeling that, in its small hard knot of a numb halo, made it clear to her that you were here, you were now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    oh ps not sure if this is helpful but if you think you're type 6 here are the instinct descriptions

    http://personalitycafe.com/type-6-fo...stackings.html
    Thanks. Sp/so works well enough, but so do some of the other descriptions, which is why I created this thread. It's not so much that I'm more complex than anyone else, it's more that I have a lot of blind spots and problems, but they seem scattershot across the instincts.

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    If I could accurately assess
    I meant just tell your thoughts (not necessarily conclusive), if you feel up to it, and I might comment on what I see.

    For what it's worth, I'll just try to post my general thoughts on the instincts (part of this is selfish motivation, to simply understand them better myself).

    I'd say the rough division between sp and the other instincts is that sp is really about the sustenance needs of the general psychological structure of the person. Somehow I find that sp has become code for physical needs, which I really don't think is the point - enneagram isn't something I use as a physical theory. It's really psychological ultimately to me. The psychological structure of a person is of course something which interacts with the physical structure: everyone feels psychologically threatened at a different point, and lack of physical wellness becomes interpreted as a psychological threat at some point.
    I really think of sp as preserving one's psychological structure from collapse.
    Whereas the other two tend to be more relation oriented - though the relatedness may be to inanimate objects.

    In a manner of speaking sx over sp actually is prioritizing attraction values over preservation. sx/sp is not what you'd call a stable psyche usually, because sx-dominant prioritizes attraction values severely enough to compromise preservation. This means that threats to psychological stability and preservation will often be entertained in pursuit of the object of attraction or rather the stability will be seen as necessarily linked to pursuit of these. It renders the significance of one's psyche to attract and be attracted (again, could be experienced with inanimate objects). I suppose stereotype-wise, some mad-scientists would fit this.
    Whereas so-instinct prioritized over preservation skirts the lines, needing the position within the social structure to the point where you find it harder to define your self-preservation needs.
    I'd say the dominant/secondary should be thought of as the secondary is greatly needed, but its needs get seen through the eyes of the dominant all too often, and thus corrupted.

    An unhealthy individual could probably operate outside of his/her natural instinctual balance, and this could cause great stress.

    If you meet most standard 6 descriptions, sp/so sounds like them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    I meant just tell your thoughts (not necessarily conclusive), if you feel up to it, and I might comment on what I see.

    ... I'd say the rough division between sp and the other instincts is that sp is really about the sustenance needs of the general psychological structure of the person. Somehow I find that sp has become code for physical needs, which I really don't think is the point ... I really think of sp as preserving one's psychological structure from collapse.
    Whereas the other two tend to be more relation oriented - though the relatedness may be to inanimate objects.
    The bolded resonates for me. Whatever I pursue physically, or however I shift or shape my environment, is about trying to find relief. I'm an extremely anxious person, though I'm not sure how much of this other people see. Anxiety threatens to burn out my system, my wiring. It can literally make me sick.

    So I look outside for resources and regulation. This can be people, places, objects.

    Chaos and ugliness . . . I can tolerate these to the degree that they are unintentional or the result of something worthwhile. I expect them to be temporary conditions. That makes me sound fucking prim.

    In a manner of speaking sx over sp actually is prioritizing attraction values over preservation. sx/sp is not what you'd call a stable psyche usually, because sx-dominant prioritizes attraction values severely enough to compromise preservation. This means that threats to psychological stability and preservation will often be entertained in pursuit of the object of attraction or rather the stability will be seen as necessarily linked to pursuit of these. It renders the significance of one's psyche to attract and be attracted (again, could be experienced with inanimate objects). I suppose stereotype-wise, some mad-scientists would fit this.
    There've been times when I skirted the edge of what you describe here. But ultimately I don't put attraction first, because I doubt that I could survive if I led my life that way. And by this I mean, survive emotionally and psychologically. For example, I turned down a marriage proposal in my 20s from a guy I loved because he was a rock 'n' roll person who chased women and I didn't trust that he'd be reliable or even physically there for me rather than out on tour. He was an exciting vacillator, and my thought was, "Staying with him would destroy me."

    Whereas so-instinct prioritized over preservation skirts the lines, needing the position within the social structure to the point where you find it harder to define your self-preservation needs.
    That does not resonate with me. My position within a social structure is unimportant to me, except insofar as I want to position myself to critically assess society. And again, that seems to serve a feeling of security, of wishing not to be manipulated because I'm blinded and immersed in social structures. It's about keeping my integrity. I proceed socially according to my own views, and sometimes it's a strength, sometimes a weakness; it positions me at times to help other people.

    I don't let society define me, except of course it DOES, but I don't give a shit.

    I'd say the dominant/secondary should be thought of as the secondary is greatly needed, but its needs get seen through the eyes of the dominant all too often, and thus corrupted.

    An unhealthy individual could probably operate outside of his/her natural instinctual balance, and this could cause great stress.

    If you meet most standard 6 descriptions, sp/so sounds like them.
    Could you say something more about this last, bolded statement? I'm not sure I understand it.

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    The last bolded statement just means that most descriptions end up being uneven - they are attempting to convey a portrait of an abstract type, which is hard to do without illustrating it through these instinctual impulses. The formation of alliance + the need for security obsession seems to portray E6's sp/so orientations more.

    This makes sense though because in some sense sx is hardest to portray in E6. E6 is one of the most fearful, inhibited types, and the instinct of attraction seems so antithetical in some ways to it that sx winds up being Naranjo's countertype. It almost ends up being portrayed as a killer of the inhibitors rather than a true type fulfilling attraction values. If one goes with his viewpoint, this is why sx 6 is attributed "strength and beauty" I think. Strength to kill the inhibitors, and beauty as the natural search for attraction - sometimes these two being fused together, namely finding beauty in strength (which of course anyone can do, but it takes on a certain meaning to a type so fixated on fear, as if the meaning of beauty is free-ing up oneself from what one is averse to as the very source of all ability to feel attraction/intimate connection).

    I don't let society define me, except of course it DOES, but I don't give a shit.
    Just an addition - I'd say some of the most creative, egocentric so-dominants end up being the ones who won't let society define them, but are so aware of how society affects them that they feel the need to define society, manipulate it to suit their needs.

    I actually find the so-dominant E6's very interesting in this capacity. I think some of the "counterphobic" 6 types that people often see are not really the best way of seeing sx-6 notwithstanding the association often drawn given aggression is often one way of trying to feel strength as above. Rather, the aggressive so-6 types often are so in the domain of usurping authority in social structures and things like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    I meant just tell your thoughts (not necessarily conclusive), if you feel up to it, and I might comment on what I see.

    For what it's worth, I'll just try to post my general thoughts on the instincts (part of this is selfish motivation, to simply understand them better myself).

    I'd say the rough division between sp and the other instincts is that sp is really about the sustenance needs of the general psychological structure of the person. Somehow I find that sp has become code for physical needs, which I really don't think is the point - enneagram isn't something I use as a physical theory. It's really psychological ultimately to me. The psychological structure of a person is of course something which interacts with the physical structure: everyone feels psychologically threatened at a different point, and lack of physical wellness becomes interpreted as a psychological threat at some point.
    I really think of sp as preserving one's psychological structure from collapse.
    Whereas the other two tend to be more relation oriented - though the relatedness may be to inanimate objects.

    In a manner of speaking sx over sp actually is prioritizing attraction values over preservation. sx/sp is not what you'd call a stable psyche usually, because sx-dominant prioritizes attraction values severely enough to compromise preservation. This means that threats to psychological stability and preservation will often be entertained in pursuit of the object of attraction or rather the stability will be seen as necessarily linked to pursuit of these. It renders the significance of one's psyche to attract and be attracted (again, could be experienced with inanimate objects). I suppose stereotype-wise, some mad-scientists would fit this.
    Whereas so-instinct prioritized over preservation skirts the lines, needing the position within the social structure to the point where you find it harder to define your self-preservation needs.
    I'd say the dominant/secondary should be thought of as the secondary is greatly needed, but its needs get seen through the eyes of the dominant all too often, and thus corrupted.

    An unhealthy individual could probably operate outside of his/her natural instinctual balance, and this could cause great stress.

    If you meet most standard 6 descriptions, sp/so sounds like them.
    I disagree. Sp support has a pride with survival. In so/sp it's the "preservation" of the community (values, traditions, social strata etc.), while in sx/sp it's either an inner core of the self (such as a calling for instance) or the relationship deemed the most stimulating and thus meeting the vitality and intensity needs of this stack. Yes, sx/sp will do stuff such as leaving everything&moving to another country with a loved one, disregarding social shit (conventions) in their "attraction" to something (person, activity, passion, hobby etc.), but you seem to ignore the fact that sx/sp represents stability gained through a form of "management" of the sx. It's not sx/so with "no barriers attached". Sx/so self-destructs more due to sp last and their search for intensity is more volatile and chaotic. Let's just say that compared to sp first this stack can have much more to struggle against for self-preservation if they don't want to follow any sx drive that may arise. For such reasons people of this stack can be quite conflicted (as a random example : picture someone with obvious polygamous tendencies who wants to stay in one relationship only).
    Last edited by Amber; 10-25-2014 at 03:27 PM.

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    Hm. I think when I was younger most anyone who knew me would have been hard-pressed to describe me as Sp first, bc I was strikingly poor at taking care of myself and my home. and instead pursuing arts, learning, and relationships. My life was turbulent and out of control as a result.

    My whole world has been drastically rearranged in the last few years bc I was married ten years (to So/sp in my estimation) and there was no way to connect with him in a deep or electric way, but I held on as long as I could for my son, otherwise I'd have hurled myself into the unknown early on.

    I also used to talk very openly about my life, my feelings, my experiences and relationships, but on this forum I am guarded now, because I developed PTSD and don't trust people now and don't want to get involved in altercations that will be triggering to me. I also was semi-stalked online by still another ex who knows I come here.
    Last edited by golden; 10-25-2014 at 04:02 PM.

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    Offtopic: the more i learn about you, the more i wish I had gotten to know you before recently.

    Ontopic: i've read a few times testers saying that if you're older, to answer for when you were younger. (Mid20s-early 30s, or so.) but I think we go through enough life events that while our core self might be more like we were in mid20-30, we'd still be heavily influenced by current events. Especially when raising children for 18+years, or going through a bad marriage, etc. I guess I don't take a static approach to enneagram, since it's supposedly about fixations which can change according to events experinced.
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    Sp/so is a better approximation than other stackings imo though not a perfect fit. A lot of good reasons have already been provided above so I won't go into them, it will only be a repeat. I'll only add that I've noticed some emphasized physical references in your posts once in a while, which hinted at sp-first.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    Hm. I think when I was younger most anyone who knew me would have been hard-pressed to describe me as Sp first, bc I was strikingly poor at taking care of myself and my home. and instead pursuing arts, learning, and relationships. My life was turbulent and out of control as a result.
    It is strange but a few sp/so people that I've met are actually not very good at taking care of themselves. I've previously ascribed it to the rigid and internalized form of the primary stacking that seems to express itself as a hidden need rather than a skill or an aptitude.

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    I think you're not an E6 maybe more of a head/intellectual type less ultra focused than scapegrace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agni
    but you seem to ignore the fact that sx/sp represents stability gained through a form of "management" of the sx.
    Are you suggesting a different use of the word "stability" or truly suggesting a different meaning from my organization of the three instincts? The only stability I'm talking of here is synonymous with preserving the ego-structure from collapse.
    I don't disagree that each instinct represents a core impulse that shows up in one's core needs, and that managing it is crucial.

    But that's like saying you need to satiate your dominant instinct "to survive" and saying you can't associate sp with "survival"? (since then you'd be "ignoring" that other instincts are also needed for "survival" so to speak..and that in a sense satisfying the social instinct and winning security in the hands of society/the establishment represents its own effort at "survival")

    Basically the core of my point is to view self-preservation as self-preservation rather than physical preservation, and while all instincts are basic and show up in some capacity, priority of the instinct of attraction, which seeks objects, contents, mental activities, or whatever for attraction, is simply a different priority from preservation of the ego-structure from collapse. It's true that neglect of one's dominant instinct may make itself felt in an overall psychical unhealth, which can affect all other areas too.

    Also obviously the extent to which preservation is active and all that is dependent on the person - one sp-last and sx-dom may actually sp more successfully in a practical example than someone else who is a supposed sp/so/sx or whatever.
    Overall unhealth/health is important in whether the imbalance of instincts leads to true neglect, but as far as explaining the prototype, I think it's pretty fair to say sx/sp represents a low priority on preservation (if you really want, we can add the adverb "comparably", but I think that should be clear without even adding it in all typological contexts).

    When we speak of a sx-dominant who still preserves successfully, I'd call that a sx-dominant with healthy sp, rather than a sx-dominant who is somehow managing completely through satisfying the dominant instinct itself.
    Rather, I think realistically, all the instincts are so basic that a neglect of any is likely to lead to problems quite quickly in at least a large number of cases.

    If you want an example of this, since you are familiar with Jung, this (precisely, saying sx/sp "lacks" the stability of preservation) is like saying Ne-dominants and irrational types "lack judgment largely" -- sure there can be irrational types with fairly good judgment, but the prototype of Ne-dominant is of someone who largely prioritizes chasing possibilities and subliminally perceived contents over judgment, and neglects judgment to add priority to their dominant paradigm of operation.
    Rather than saying Ne itself can exercise good judgment, I'd just say the secondary functions can be active enough in healthy cases to produce good enough judgment for the given type.
    Last edited by chemical; 10-25-2014 at 11:55 PM.

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    Basically I'm at a loss as to what you are framing differently (Agni) to be honest. I agree the word "preservation" can be used for community values, and can be associated with so, and "stability" can be used in other contexts, but am not getting a sense of how in the particular context I used these words, they amount to a meaning much or at all different from anything you said.

    If part of your meaning is to contrast sx/sp with sx/so well I'll say my example wasn't addressing so really, or the specific position of so, and it was addressing only the difference between sx and sp priority at large (so sx/so/sp and sx/sp/so weren't part of my contrast). It's more like what's a sx-dom vs a sp-dom like.

    If you're saying sx/sp can represent a "combined" drive of sx management leading to a sense of sp-wellness, I'd say that can be true and can be untrue. How autonomous the secondary instinct is and how much it directly interplays with the dominant's fulfillment is not something I'd set in stone, in that I really don't view your instinctual subtype as a combination of two instincts, more like a relative positioning of all three in some order (one instant of which could be when the two stronger ones combine/interplay and the last is neglected) - the only thing I'd feel is acceptable to say in general is that sp being prioritized lower than sx relatively leads to what I described as a prototype - the degree to which all those statements holds is subject to many other things obviously.
    I'd further caution against saying sx/sp represents such a combination of sp-fulfillment through management of sx, because I'd say that what I wrote in my post right above is the more generally holding thing, because there's no reason this isn't true for sx/so/sp also -- sp wellness is always affected by a sense of fulfilling the basic needs of preservation, which can have to do with either sx or so or both.
    So much as you say sx/sp can represent stability gained through fulfillment/management of sx, I can say sx/so/sp can represent stability gained through fulfillment/management of sx/so for instance...buuut! I'd say actually that it's quite clearly false that someone with instinct priority sx/sp/so is in general having sx acting in a way that management of it leads to any kind of sp-stability...if there were a guarantee of that, I'd say sp is dominant, since sp's paradigm is held as a necessary one for sx's operation.
    I'd say a balanced psyche may have it so the two interplay reasonably well together.

    The correct context in which to read my statements is the Ne-dom example I gave. (Hoping this helps.) And for what it's worth, it didn't mean to apply any more to sx/sp/so than to sx/so/sp - rather, it was a general statement about sx/sp due to sx being prioritized over sp, and an analogous statement can be made for sx/so/sp.

    Alright. That about covers every point of view I can see your post taking, and hope it addresses all questions you may have.
    Last edited by chemical; 10-26-2014 at 12:41 AM.

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    Weird, I had thought for sure you were ILI. Maybe IEI, I don't even know.

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    So searching around, reading as many descriptions as I can find, there's little I relate to in any information on Sp/so. We also have an "all things Sp/so" thread and I don't relate to the images and information there -- rather, it ranges from unengaging to extremely offputting.

    It's all like looking at and reading about alien life forms.

    Perhaps I'm egotistical and just want to be something more "interesting," so I'm misperceiving what I find. Or perhaps as Silke said, there just won't be a perfect fit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    So searching around, reading as many descriptions as I can find, there's little I relate to in any information on Sp/so. We also have an "all things Sp/so" thread and I don't relate to the images and information there -- rather, it ranges from unengaging to extremely offputting.

    It's all like looking at and reading about alien life forms.

    Perhaps I'm egotistical and just want to be something more "interesting," so I'm misperceiving what I find. Or perhaps as Silke said, there just won't be a perfect fit.
    But I would be terribly surprised to hear you identify with pics, ideas, and personality traits in the Sx threads...because you have much more awareness of "social" stuff and even many of the pics you posted in your "??" thread seem sp/so. Of course it's possible that you don't fit in one stack perfectly and I guess nobody is trying to shove you into one. But maybe you resonate with something in this article: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tual-Stackings

    Personally I place you in the strong So range of sp/so or in the strong sp range of so/sp.
    e.g. "so/sp formal (strong sp) - pulls from sp/sx for a more self contained style. soc while still primary, is muted; can seem critical and more impersonal than the other ranges. a usual focus on topics, issues, and responsibilities affecting specific levels of society. usually well connected, but in informal settings may let others do most of the talking. can seem self pres at first glance.
    role: the pundit, the judge, the commentator"
    sp/so weakside (strong soc) - draws from so/sx to produce what is overall a lighter, friendlier, and more humor employing style within self pres (though funny through conscious effort and without much irony, unlike strongsiders who are relatively less aware of how they're perceived). can seem more sociable than many so/sp's, and better embodying of a common touch. a notable degree of social consciousness tempers their more private security seeking instinct, so not surprisingly weaksiders can seem soc first, often with a certain generous or self sacrificial quality.
    role: the self deprecator, the sidekick, the philanthropist
    Last edited by Amber; 10-26-2014 at 06:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agni View Post
    But I would be terribly surprised to hear you identify with pics, ideas, and personality traits in the Sx threads...because you have much more awareness of "social" stuff and even many of the pics you posted in your "??" thread seem sp/so. Of course it's possible that you don't fit in one stack perfectly and I guess nobody is trying to shove you into one. But maybe you resonate with something in this article: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tual-Stackings

    Personally I place you in the strong So range of sp/so or in the strong sp range of so/sp.
    e.g. "so/sp formal (strong sp) - pulls from sp/sx for a more self contained style. soc while still primary, is muted; can seem critical and more impersonal than the other ranges. a usual focus on topics, issues, and responsibilities affecting specific levels of society. usually well connected, but in informal settings may let others do most of the talking. can seem self pres at first glance.
    role: the pundit, the judge, the commentator"
    sp/so weakside (strong soc) - draws from so/sx to produce what is overall a lighter, friendlier, and more humor employing style within self pres (though funny through conscious effort and without much irony, unlike strongsiders who are relatively less aware of how they're perceived). can seem more sociable than many so/sp's, and better embodying of a common touch. a notable degree of social consciousness tempers their more private security seeking instinct, so not surprisingly weaksiders can seem soc first, often with a certain generous or self sacrificial quality.
    role: the self deprecator, the sidekick, the philanthropist
    I find the stackings threads and descriptions frustrating because some of the Sx imagery and information does resonate with me. The Sp/so and So/sp mostly do not. Not at all.

    This doesn't mean I can't follow the logic behind an Sp/so typing, only that it's irritating to see that I don't fit well anywhere in this "system" and that common conceptions of the type I might likely be turn me off and bore me.

    This may be due to pejorative or even ignorant views of Sp/so and So/sp coming from ppl who favor the Sx instinct. For example, I despise the person whose interests I represented in the So/sp thread, but otoh that person's likes at first seemed a bit cute to me, if stuffy. Later I saw that following those leanings too far reached a kind of smug, grand amorality that touches the zone of evil.

    But it seems that any stacking, carried by a shitty person, can turn rotten.

    The Sx/sp stuff here and in descriptions seems at worst self-indulgent -- the Sp/sx thread I rather like, some of it is beautiful, although I don't think it represents me. Some of the Sx/so and So/sx represents my interests and social roles and relationships, but as I said, it seems like those stackings point to someone more glittery in terms of a personality.

    Probably, as you and Silke wrote, there's just no very good fit. I think the things in my own thread definitely could be how Sp/so looks from my point of view.

    But what other ppl ascribe to it, no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    I find the stackings threads and descriptions frustrating because some of the Sx imagery and information does resonate with me. The Sp/so and So/sp mostly do not. Not at all.

    This doesn't mean I can't follow the logic behind an Sp/so typing, only that it's irritating to see that I don't fit well anywhere in this "system" and that common conceptions of the type I might likely be turn me off and bore me.

    This may be due to pejorative or even ignorant views of Sp/so and So/sp coming from ppl who favor the Sx instinct. For example, I despise the person whose interests I represented in the So/sp thread, but otoh that person's likes at first seemed a bit cute to me, if stuffy. Later I saw that following those leanings too far reached a kind of smug, grand amorality that touches the zone of evil.

    But it seems that any stacking, carried by a shitty person, can turn rotten.

    The Sx/sp stuff here and in descriptions seems at worst self-indulgent -- the Sp/sx thread I rather like, some of it is beautiful, although I don't think it represents me. Some of the Sx/so and So/sx represents my interests and social roles and relationships, but as I said, it seems like those stackings point to someone more glittery in terms of a personality.

    Probably, as you and Silke wrote, there's just no very good fit. I think the things in my own thread definitely could be how Sp/so looks from my point of view.

    But what other ppl ascribe to it, no.
    well, most people contributing to the so/sp and sp/so Ennea threads were Sx first, so of course they are going to emphasize the more boring and dry sides of the stackings. But I bet for some folks Sx first is basically about getting laid -- as you could see in the thread in question ... I think it was a sp/sx user who kept claiming such a thing through the pics they posted (given a contra-flow orientation).

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    Just for the record Golden, I have a really good friend (basically family) who is so/sp and he's not boring or dry at all. Sometimes he can even come across as sx/so in a certain way.... not sure how to explain. Here's a thread I made on him a couple of years ago.

    FTR I have him typed as EIE-Fe E3 so/p (seems to have balanced wings)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agni View Post
    well, most people contributing to the so/sp and sp/so Ennea threads were Sx first, so of course they are going to emphasize the more boring and dry sides of the stackings. But I bet for some folks Sx first is basically about getting laid -- as you could see in the thread in question ... I think it was a sp/sx user who kept claiming such a thing through the pics they posted (given a contra-flow orientation).
    Trading in stereotypes is often what typology devolves to, I suppose. Oversimplification makes things easier ... in the short term, anyway.

    A few years ago, I'd stake that 3/4 of the ppl on this forum typed themselves Sx-first. The proportions still seem off. It seems like only some of the Deltas, as a rule, are happily willing to admit they might not be witches and vampires.

    But if Sx is popularly taken to mean sex and dramaz, it's understandable to avoid an Sx-last typing, since most ppl don't want to be seen as unsexy etc.

    Eventually I'll be able to think more independently abt enneagram if I choose to learn more. Threads like this help, even if it's unpleasant to try on oddly shaped shoes.
    Last edited by golden; 10-27-2014 at 05:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epheme View Post
    Just for the record Golden, I have a really good friend (basically family) who is so/sp and he's not boring or dry at all. Sometimes he can even come across as sx/so in a certain way.... not sure how to explain. Here's a thread I made on him a couple of years ago.

    FTR I have him typed as EIE-Fe E3 so/p (seems to have balanced wings)
    I even have a LSE 3w2 sp/so friend and she's not dry or boring at all when it comes to interactions, She's funny and engaging, otherwise I would never be friends with her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    I even have a LSE 3w2 sp/so friend and she's not dry or boring at all when it comes to interactions, She's funny and engaging, otherwise I would never be friends with her.
    Word.

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    BUT ARE THEY SEXY

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    BUT ARE THEY SEXY
    my father (sp/so) is (still) quite impressive for women. He hardly does anything to be sexy, but he's always been considered handsome and manly in a grounding and reassuring way (not overly feisty and aggressive). However he's curious (attentive) about how women see him, if they like him etc. Or at least *I* can easily perceive that as a Sx first, he's actually not obvious. He avoids talking any kind of romance or sexuality. I think someone said in a thread that Sx last can be appealing through their appearance of indifference and non-transparence (strong silent type - "is there a heart in there?")

    If you check boards with folks to assist in stack VI, you can notice that some ARE sexy. DiCaprio (sp/so) is. Adriana Lima (so/sp) is. not sure about Putin lol...but the stack is mainly about energy and priorities. e.g. my father would have never conceived getting a divorce if he had fallen for someone else. He would have easily ignored the attraction (he doesn't need intensity to feel alive). For him relationships are mainly about commitment and mutual support.

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    my ESE so/sp friend attracts men like flies that she has to swat away

    she's very vivacious and girly (and also prone to hookups- sx =/= sex), but you can see a kind of unsureness in the sx-arena. like an unwillingness to talk about something too personal, or sexual, and she considers obsessive romantic behavior unhealthy. we will have conversations where she (in my opinion) hasn't said anything too uncomfortable or revealing, but she'll apologize for being tmi.
    Last edited by lemontrees; 10-27-2014 at 02:40 AM.
    There was no place that destruction did not touch...At best it made everything feel flooded, urgent, while pushing towards decay and exposing the imminent failure of managing to maintain a form at all. Inside this was the kernel of wholeness. She could be broken down into a small, granular piece, a bit of debris jostling against other bits of debris, and in that friction there was some sense of having a boundary or a presence, and that thing-ness of the self, reduced to a basic instinctive sensation, was an almost-nothing feeling that, in its small hard knot of a numb halo, made it clear to her that you were here, you were now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    BUT ARE THEY SEXY
    Tbh, sexy wouldn't be the first word I would use to describe my friend, but it's not her stacking, it's her personally. To me she is boring only in a way she lives her life (she is very responsible, stable, security oriented, risk averse - but that is strictly from my pov, because we're polar opposites) and not in a way she is in social settings.

    I'm sure no one would call her boring (she's super extroverted, adapts to people in conversations seamlessly and has an awesome sense of humor (idk how that happened lol). She's always on, while I can be pretty asocial sometimes, so I'm sure people would describe me as more boring/less intense than her in these situations. But it's also true that there's no provocativeness in her or any exhibitionism to her persona and I know she prefers if I keep at more "save" topics and go with the flow. But she hangs out with a bunch of crazy IEE's, so she's used to weirdness and has loosened up through the years.

    Considering people here typing themselves sx first often....you have to take into account that people on t16t are often more eccentric and exhibitionist than people irl, so this gives the deceiving impression of this being a normal standard of behavior. There are millions of sx last people out there, much much more than sx firsts, so that's not abnormal at all. Many of them are sexy as well. I'm not just saying this to make you feel better - people can be sexy just standing and not trying at all, or not even thinking about it.

    Also another example...I have a EIE-Ni mum, who is the most confusing person to type ever, which is ridiculous since I know her best out of all people. It took me over a year to even type her as EIE, which I now find laughable (it might be cause she's E3 though - which also took me a decade to figure out). Her stackings are all messed up - it feels like they're all very strong, it just depends from which angle you look at them or in what mood she is. She VI's as sx first and is a very passionate person, but on the other hand also very guarded and strong on sp. And her so is also very substantial. I can't even decide for sure whether she's contra or syn flow - there are strong arguments for both, but I think she's contra-flow. And to be even worse, she's very changeable - it's like her priorities shift dramatically. I'm starting to think she's some sort of "matured" sx/so. Just nothing makes perfect sense. So I think I might understand where your confusion lies

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    my ESE so/sp friend attracts men like flies that she has to swat away

    she's very vivacious and girly (and also prone to hookups- sx =/= sex), but you can see a kind of unsureness in the sx-arena. like an unwillingness to talk about something too personal, or sexual, and she considers obsessive romantic behavior unhealthy. we will have conversations where she (in my opinion) hasn't said anything too uncomfortable or revealing, but she'll apologize for being tmi.
    I think any ExFx chick is a guy magnet, no matter the stacking (unless she's extremely unattractive)

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    I'm okay with the Sp/so typing but still would like to discuss how I see some of your comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agni View Post
    ... He hardly does anything to be sexy ... He avoids talking any kind of romance or sexuality. I think someone said in a thread that Sx last can be appealing through their appearance of indifference and non-transparence (strong silent type - "is there a heart in there?")

    ... my father would have never conceived getting a divorce if he had fallen for someone else. He would have easily ignored the attraction (he doesn't need intensity to feel alive). For him relationships are mainly about commitment and mutual support.
    I can identify with the not-doing-things-to-be-sexy stuff, because I find overtly sexy behavior cartoonish at times. If I were pressed on this topic, I'd tend to say the sexiest thing is to let people wonder.

    When I'm told I'm sexy, it is more like, huh, really? It kind of amuses me.

    My sexuality is not for just anyone. I don't want to be an indifferent slob, or deliberately unsexy, it's more about my own dignity and my boundaries, and being in control.

    However: it would be fair to say that I have given up stability in favor of intense connection. More than once. I used to think I was Sp-last because of this.

    If you wanna find Sp in those Sx-looking developments, okay, I could frame it like so:

    I think the safest, most stable relationship in my life must have a foundation of intense bonding and amazing sex, because without that, what am I supposed to commit to? An idea? An economic bargain? Feh.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    ... like an unwillingness to talk about something too personal, or sexual, and she considers obsessive romantic behavior unhealthy. we will have conversations where she (in my opinion) hasn't said anything too uncomfortable or revealing, but she'll apologize for being tmi.
    With my closest friends I can discuss my personal / sex life in extreme detail. I value frank and clear information about relationships, love, sexuality. I appreciate having friends who are open about these topics. I don't know how to have a true friendship without a lot of disclosure and openness. But I will hold some things in reserve, yeah.

    Some of my friends who get into addictions and obsessions, I listen to them, I care about them, but I sometimes find their mindset really repetitious. They kind of revel in things that can't be resolved except through firm decision making, which they won't do because it would unplug them from a socket they like being stuck in. They'll literally ask me to be a voice of reason, but they aren't really interested in following reason, so lol. It's cute.

    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    ... she is very responsible, stable, security oriented, risk averse ...
    I don't feel responsible, stable, but I can recognize some people see me that way. I try to be that for other people. I'm not great at being that for me. I am risk-averse in some ways, and then sometimes I will take a huge risk that makes ppl I know say, wow. *shrug* Probably it's more like big, punctuated, calculated risk taking.

    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    Considering people here typing themselves sx first often....you have to take into account that people on t16t are often more eccentric and exhibitionist than people irl, so this gives the deceiving impression of this being a normal standard of behavior...
    Hm. I don't think people here are really extra eccentric and exhibitionist. I sometimes just think they want to be those things. A lot of people here are young, also, and exploring and unsettled. It all looks familiar to me. As people become more "boring," they can become more interesting in a way. It's been a relief to find that out.

    Perhaps I'm wrong and we are all incredibly interesting and exceptional here.

    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    ... Also another example...I have a EIE-Ni mum, who is the most confusing person to type ever...
    I think EIE-Ni is probably just confusing to type sometimes. Your description of your mom makes total sense to me.
    Last edited by golden; 10-27-2014 at 05:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    I'm okay with the Sp/so typing but still would like to discuss how I see some of your comments.



    I can identify with the not-doing-things-to-be-sexy stuff, because I find overtly sexy behavior cartoonish at times. If I were pressed on this topic, I'd tend to say the sexiest thing is to let people wonder.

    When I'm told I'm sexy, it is more like, huh, really? It kind of amuses me.

    My sexuality is not for just anyone. I don't want to be an indifferent slob, or deliberately unsexy, it's more about my own dignity and my boundaries, and being in control.

    However: it would be fair to say that I have given up stability in favor of intense connection. More than once. I used to think I was Sp-last because of this.

    If you wanna find Sp in those Sx-looking developments, okay, I could frame it like so:

    I think the safest, most stable relationship in my life must have a foundation of intense bonding and amazing sex, because without that, what am I supposed to commit to? An idea? An economic bargain? Feh.

    The bolded sounds a bit like Sx last contra-flow to be honest.

    I have the impression that you dislike the idea of sp/so or so/sp and are looking for signs that you may be something else ...but what? you are definitely not So last, as everyone here seems to agree. And sx/so finds sexy displaying their cleavage, moving their ass to lure you and batting some bedroom eyelashes. Their point of pride is making lots of folks find them sexy, not maintaining boundaries and dignity. They know quite well when they are sexy and why, also how to turn up the volume, if needed.

    I wonder if you don't feel the need to disprove the consensus here because of some contra-flow quality. No idea. Maybe you are so/sx.
    Last edited by Amber; 10-27-2014 at 06:29 PM.

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