Enneagram Type 8 IEEs/ENFps

[Cerelict]

A lot of Enneagram/Soc combinations are reported rare and I'm interested in what they'd look like. Along with the E1, the E8, as I've heard, is one of the rarer Enneagrams among IEEs.
Give me your opinion on what they'd be like, IRL examples if you have any.
EII examples will also do.

[Galen]

Give me your opinion on what they'd be like, IRL examples if you have any.

I can't because they don't exist

[chemical]

E8 tends to be correlated in this system to extraverted perceiving. Here is one source that thinks enneagram 8 has to do with leading extraverted intuition: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/Ty...p#.VEdq0RZ4jIU

Depending on viewpoint, a lot of people consider the base/dominant role to be paramount and the secondary to be less so, so wouldn't care as much for the difference between IEE and ILE.

You'll find what types people believe "exist" or not depends on their preferred viewpoint of the enneagram (of which there are many).

[Radio]

IMO,

1 9 5 4 = greater probability of being introverted types*
3 2 8 7 = greater probability of being extroverted types**

6 = ambiverted, every type equally

and social styles,

IXFx = very unlikely to be 2 3 5 7 8 (i.e. 1 4 6 9)**
IXTx = very unlikely to be 2 3 4 7 8 (i.e. 1 5 6 9)
EXFx = very unlikely to be 1 4 5 8 9 (i.e. 2 3 6 7)*
EXTx = very unlikely to be 1 2 4 5 9 (i.e. 3 6 7 8)*

--

* exception being ILE/IEE = E9/E4 or LSE = E1
** exception being SEI = E3

[Eliza Thomason]

A lot of Enneagram/Soc combinations are reported rare and I'm interested in what they'd look like. Along with the E1, the E8, as I've heard, is one of the rarer Enneagrams among IEEs.
Give me your opinion on what they'd be like, IRL examples if you have any.
EII examples will also do.

I don't know any IEE 8s. I am E1 IEE, and it seems normal to me. The trouble with calling these combos rare is that many IEEs are self-typed, and mistyped.

[Galen]

EXFx = very unlikely to be 1 4 5 8 9 (i.e. 2 3 6 7)*

ESE 1s definitely exist, my family is full of them
SEE 8s aren't that uncommon either

[Eliza Thomason]

Here are some IEE tells I do not see among some of the self-typed IEEs here. It seems many here, including those who consider themselves competent in Socionics typing, overlook these IEE "tells" because they confirm IEE self-typings here of those who so not display these strong NeFi traits:

"Never ask an ENFp to describe him or herself. Do you have a couple of days? What you will end up with is a vast collection of interesting contradictions."

"They love to give their opinion on any and all subject they find interesting. A funny twist is that if you listen long enough they will probably contradict all the things that they spoke so strongly about giving a completely different point of view. The ENFp is aware of the contradiction, but knows that there are many ways to view a subject and do not like to cancel out an opposing view too strongly. They do not like these contradictions pointed out to them in a critical manner."

"ENFps are very sensitive to other people. They love to win hearts and create harmony between themselves and others. This is not always accomplished, but the to a great extent an ENFp will maintain good relations with as many people as possible."

"until ENFps learns to create healthy boundaries between themselves and others he or she will exhaust himself or herself, running around trying to be everywhere and please everyone. This trait of wanting to please everyone and guilt in turning down request is a life long battle. ENFp simply cannot completely be unaware of others needs and desires."

"IEE, like no other, is discerning in the logic of human relations, especially acutely he sees the causes and motivations that create complications and conflicts in intimate relationships and friendships..."

"Knows how to encourage and inspire people, generously gives compliments, enthusiastically describes future activities and prospects. Offers multiple solutions for addressing the same problem."

"Light and kind in communication. With his sincerity and warmth inspires trust... Seeks to manage the feelings of others. "

"IEE concerns with and seeks to manage the time expenditures of those around him. He does not tolerate people who don't act effectively or take away precious time. At the same time, often he poorly manages his own time and is prone to tardiness. When explaining or telling others about something, he follows his own tangents and associations, cannot relay information in a brief compact form, because of this doesn't always fit into the allotted time."

"IEE knows how to take the initiative and inspire people to action. But when his desire is lost, he tries to find other people who will drive the project to completion without his direct involvement."

"In communication, he is emotional, independent, and somewhat naive."

And IEEs are Aristocratic, not Democratic.
IEEs are Result, not Process.

[chemical]

Just to collect some instances of discord between presentations of types, here's examples:

Radio writes this

6 = ambiverted, every type equally

, which is not at all unfounded or an uncommon viewpoint. Nevertheless, here's some stuff from Naranjo. On distinguishing E6 and E9, he writes

One difference here is that of introversive-extraversive characteristic....Also, while E VI, together with E V, is the most inner directed, E IX is the most pure expression of tradition-directedness.

Similar quotes exist discussing the difference between E6/E3 and E6/E8.

So my personal suggestion is to just use the systems however they work well to describe you. It's more important to come up with good (albeit subjective) reasons for things in my view at least than to strive for accuracy by a standard, if that standard is fluid even to the major authors.

[Eliza Thomason]

You do not see these traits in some of the IEEs here, because most of the traits above are not so much related to Socionics as they are related to particular forms of narcissism. The more pathological versions of IEEs so to say.

Nope, these are IEE traits. Yes, there are 16 types so to some types IEE traits will always seem too much of something and not enough of another. So different from certain other types! IEE will hit on some people's areas of avoidance. We all have types that seem that way to us.

Re: narcissism: reference to support your statements, please? It does not sound like you know what narcissism is.

[golden]

An IEE 8 is a 2 disintegrating to 8.

Run.

[FoxOnStilts]

** exception being SEI = E3

SEI 3? ._. That's weird and something I never really thought of before. I can't really think of any reason that it couldn't work, but if someone came in typing themselves as that, I would squint and tilt my head because of how unlikely it would be.

Which is the same reaction I would have to an IEE 8.

[Cerelict]

Nope, these are IEE traits. Yes, there are 16 types so to some types IEE traits will always seem too much of something and not enough of another. So different from certain other types! IEE will hit on some people's areas of avoidance. We all have types that seem that way to us.

Re: narcissism: reference to support your statements, please? It does not sound like you know what narcissism is.

You do not see these traits in some of the IEEs here, because most of the traits above are not so much related to Socionics as they are related to particular forms of narcissism. The more pathological versions of IEEs so to say.

BTW, do you recognize yourself in these descriptions?

It doesn't sound like narcissism. It sounds like a circlejerky special snowflake description that portrays an unrealistically self-sacrificing doormat. There aren't enough people alive who act that way that could fill up the whole population of one type.

A lot of the IEEs I've met were very Enneagram 4-like and took life very seriously. Another group is the "mad genius" archetype, appearing shallow but a cerebral fire within.
There are Enneagram 2 IEEs, but they usually come out when they're more matured and tend to slink away from the limelight in their earlier years.
And there are the 6s.
In my opinion it's actually the E7s that are rare. They're easy to spot. About the most colorful people on the planet.


But really I don't see how an IEE 8 is impossible. Aren't SLE 8s often very loud, open, good at getting attention, childlike at times but inapproachably serious at others? A lot of the things I hear applied to IEEs seem to apply to SLEs in slightly different ways. Just combine an E4 IEE and E7 IEE and you've got an E8 IEE.

E8 tends to be correlated in this system to extraverted perceiving. Here is one source that thinks enneagram 8 has to do with leading extraverted intuition: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/Ty...p#.VEdq0RZ4jIU

Depending on viewpoint, a lot of people consider the base/dominant role to be paramount and the secondary to be less so, so wouldn't care as much for the difference between IEE and ILE.

You'll find what types people believe "exist" or not depends on their preferred viewpoint of the enneagram (of which there are many).

"....Eights tend to become egocentric. They get carried away by the momentum of their egos...."
"Eights are usually very sensitive as children...."
"When it does, Eights will intentionally take on challenges which confront this fear directly."
"In healthy Eights, we see the big-hearted, jovial disposition which reflects an Eight’s natural feelings state, but as they succumb to their fears, they begin to believe that they cannot afford to let others get close to them."

Something isn't right here. Aren't Eights "self-forgetting?"
And a lot of the last two quotes sounds more like a Six.
The second listed passage doesn't seem quite right either.

[anndelise]

It's annoying when a wanna-be IEE picks and chooses their desired descriptions to represent all IEE while ignoring the other descriptions that either don't fit the wanna-be, or she considers them too negative to include.

Here's a few from the same resources as those used above.
Topaz's description of IEE: http://personalitycafe.com/socionics...socionics.html
Gulenko's description of IEE: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ile-by-Gulenko


In the spirit of this thread, I have bolded parts that might relate to for/against E8.


"Don’t be fooled entirely by an ENFP’s interest in you, though. ENFPs are genuinely interested in people, but are also very interested in patterns of social behavior. ENFPs are a social scientist. They don’t need formulas and charts to be keep track of their findings. Information on the motivations and needs of people are constantly being added to the interior laboratory of ideas. ENFPs will often uses themselves as a crucible to determine the value and weight of others inner world. They will subtly test their subjects with questions and actions designed almost subconsciously to provoke a response. The split nature of the ENFP is to be involved and at the same time uninvolved, observing their ‘subject’ not unlike protozoa under a microscope."

"Therefore it is best to tactfully suppress conflict and keep things smooth. This does not mean that they always are nice to everyone. At times they may challenge and provoke, ignore or act contrary if that is what is needed to master a relationship. They are very creative in their approach to others and will change their behavior to draw people in or keep them at a distance."

"(Re Ne) it is possible to collect multiple perspectives, concepts, ideas, and beliefs in order to register into a readily available databank their entirety and the various conscious considerations concerning them as they stand in the abstract theoretical world and in order to derive a global picture of them."

"Ne also maintains an active neutral stance on all of the whole of its inputs, even if the whole of the input of one core belief, concept, or idea, conflicts with any of the other core beliefs, concepts, or ideas it remains non-biased and registers them all as equals."

"so long as new beliefs emerge and there remains something to be considered, out with the old and in with the new! Loyalty to a strong qualified belief system will never interest an ENFp!"

"Since the ENFp type thrives in a world of abstract and non-concrete theoretical principles, it may be rendered difficult for this type to collect multiple physical sensations from the eyes, ears, nose, taste and touch in order to register into a readily available databank their entirety and the various conscious considerations concerning them. In result of this inability, expected behaviors should include a lack of motive concerning physical activities, lack of discipline, inability to control aggressive tendencies with unexpected outburst or extreme passivity and non-aggressive, pushing others without good reason or not pushing hard enough when needed, sluggishness and irresponsibility, lack of willpower and initiative, breaking down when put under pressure, shutting down during stressful situations, or inability to push talents and abilities."

"Mobilizes and becomes active in extreme situations. Provides resistance to and repels unjustified attacks."

"IEE has an excellent intuition for people. He adeptly assesses motivation of others from disparate phrases, intonation, facial expressions, and peculiarities of behavior. Easily guesses what another person is striving for. Learns quickly, for he is able to grasp the main points of the issue."

"In extreme situations, IEE mobilizes and acts quite resolutely and decisively. Provides a rebuff and resistance to any types of encroachment and invasions. He will respond to any dictatorial and coercive attempts and retaliate with force."

"When he gets involved in arguments, IEE will actively and sometimes aggressively assert his opinions and views. Suffers from irritability and edginess. For this reason often has trouble with building up bodily tension."

"His internal state and mood are dependent upon the nature of work that he has to do. If it's not interesting or seems useless, then his mood drops. For this reason, IEE is not prone to performing regular upkeep and maintenance of his living quarters."

"For Advisor, it is important to monitor the ongoing development of the situation."

"Discerning in the talents and abilities of others, perceptive of their implicit motives as well as character flaws."

"In extreme conditions becomes mobilized and gives a volitional rebuff."

[chemical]

Well Cubozoan - there is no right/wrong to me in the enneagram, only ways of seeing it and ways that appeal to my needs of describing myself vs not.

No doubt an enneagram institute page isn't going to show the same as all the other enneagram sources, but bottom line is it's there.

At the end of the day all you really know about how the types are organized is that it has something to do with these great sins, like avarice, lust, and so forth, and how they are interpreted varies. For example, envy has a common meaning, yet frequently the way it is described with enneagram 4, it may be far from recognizable as what we usually know to be that term.

The stuff that sounds like 6 to you is actually very likely the enneagram institute's version of E8's integration point to E2. Understood that some people attribute that to 6 "insecurity" but at the end of the day you find that splitting common defense mechanisms into a neat spectrum is only going to go so far in terms of preserving symmetry and distinctions among types unless you sort of deliberately impose some kind of structure, and then you have to ask how meaningful your imposing really is - that is your own subjective decision of course, which I leave you to.

[silke]

Jonathan Koppenhaver - the Ne subtype 8w7
type 8 is omnipresent among the socionics extraverted types afaik but doesn't exist among the introverts (iow no EII 8s) the closest introverts get is 9w8

[chemical]

Yeah as much as I think to some extent it's all subjective. any EP as E8 really does not surprise me. I think a very inward 8 would go more against the traditional concept - if you do the Naranjo thing especially, but even most portrayals are extraverted.

[Radio]

SEI 3? ._. That's weird and something I never really thought of before. I can't really think of any reason that it couldn't work, but if someone came in typing themselves as that, I would squint and tilt my head because of how unlikely it would be.

IME, yeah, it is a weird subset of SEIs. there's the normal stereotype of E4 / E9 SEIs... and then there's E3 SEIs, who are very image-focused, social, outgoing, energetic, and competitive, and come across almost as extroverts. i typed SEI E3 friend SEE for a while even. i wish i could think of celebrity examples or something to communicate what i mean.

[Waster]

I'm sure there's some tritype 8 IEEs.

[Cerelict]

I'm sure there's some tritype 8 IEEs.

No, man, don't just let us know you're there and then walk away. Write more words. Tell us anything remotely connected to the subject that you might have observed.

[Waster]

No, man, don't just let us know you're there and then walk away. Write more words. Tell us anything remotely connected to the subject that you might have observed.

That would be difficult, as I don't have anything else to really contribute. On this subject I've mentioned before that I've known very few IEEs throughout my life up to present, so I can't provide any additional analysis from first hand experience. What I can only say is that I see no reason logically why a tritype 8 IEE shouldn't exist, indeed, in some of the descriptions I've read, particularly Ne subtypes, is that they 'show disrespect to authorities' which sounds type 8 leaning potentially.

On a general level I see no reason to change my laconic writing style; indeed I quite enjoy it. It's my natural way of communicating and provides the jist of what I want to say without wasting time. If you read my post history most of it is trivial light hearted comments which don't require additional input anyway. If someone wants more substance from one of my posts I'm not averse to providing that if prompted or I feel so inclined.

[Cerelict]

That would be difficult, as I don't have anything else to really contribute. On this subject I've mentioned before that I've known very few IEEs throughout my life up to present, so I can't provide any additional analysis from first hand experience. What I can only say is that I see no reason logically why a tritype 8 IEE shouldn't exist, indeed, in some of the descriptions I've read, particularly Ne subtypes, is that they 'show disrespect to authorities' which sounds type 8 leaning potentially.

On a general level I see no reason to change my laconic writing style; indeed I quite enjoy it. It's my natural way of communicating and provides the jist of what I want to say without wasting time. If you read my post history most of it is trivial light hearted comments which don't require additional imput anyway. If someone wants more substance from one of my posts I'm not averse to providing that if prompted or I feel so inclined.

It's at least good the you've got a plan. Thanks for the input.

[Beautiful sky]

Idk

[Cerelict]

Idk

Then why bother saying anything at all?

[Waster]

Then why bother saying anything at all?

Post count.

[Beautiful sky]

Then why bother saying anything at all?

So that you know that I'm paying attention and thinking about it

[Cerelict]

It's annoying when a wanna-be IEE picks and chooses their desired descriptions to represent all IEE while ignoring the other descriptions that either don't fit the wanna-be, or she considers them too negative to include.

Here's a few from the same resources as those used above.
Topaz's description of IEE: http://personalitycafe.com/socionics...socionics.html
Gulenko's description of IEE: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ile-by-Gulenko


In the spirit of this thread, I have bolded parts that might relate to for/against E8.


"Don’t be fooled entirely by an ENFP’s interest in you, though. ENFPs are genuinely interested in people, but are also very interested in patterns of social behavior. ENFPs are a social scientist. They don’t need formulas and charts to be keep track of their findings. Information on the motivations and needs of people are constantly being added to the interior laboratory of ideas. ENFPs will often uses themselves as a crucible to determine the value and weight of others inner world. They will subtly test their subjects with questions and actions designed almost subconsciously to provoke a response. The split nature of the ENFP is to be involved and at the same time uninvolved, observing their ‘subject’ not unlike protozoa under a microscope."

"Therefore it is best to tactfully suppress conflict and keep things smooth. This does not mean that they always are nice to everyone. At times they may challenge and provoke, ignore or act contrary if that is what is needed to master a relationship. They are very creative in their approach to others and will change their behavior to draw people in or keep them at a distance."

"(Re Ne) it is possible to collect multiple perspectives, concepts, ideas, and beliefs in order to register into a readily available databank their entirety and the various conscious considerations concerning them as they stand in the abstract theoretical world and in order to derive a global picture of them."

"Ne also maintains an active neutral stance on all of the whole of its inputs, even if the whole of the input of one core belief, concept, or idea, conflicts with any of the other core beliefs, concepts, or ideas it remains non-biased and registers them all as equals."

"so long as new beliefs emerge and there remains something to be considered, out with the old and in with the new! Loyalty to a strong qualified belief system will never interest an ENFp!"

"Since the ENFp type thrives in a world of abstract and non-concrete theoretical principles, it may be rendered difficult for this type to collect multiple physical sensations from the eyes, ears, nose, taste and touch in order to register into a readily available databank their entirety and the various conscious considerations concerning them. In result of this inability, expected behaviors should include a lack of motive concerning physical activities, lack of discipline, inability to control aggressive tendencies with unexpected outburst or extreme passivity and non-aggressive, pushing others without good reason or not pushing hard enough when needed, sluggishness and irresponsibility, lack of willpower and initiative, breaking down when put under pressure, shutting down during stressful situations, or inability to push talents and abilities."

"Mobilizes and becomes active in extreme situations. Provides resistance to and repels unjustified attacks."

"IEE has an excellent intuition for people. He adeptly assesses motivation of others from disparate phrases, intonation, facial expressions, and peculiarities of behavior. Easily guesses what another person is striving for. Learns quickly, for he is able to grasp the main points of the issue."

"In extreme situations, IEE mobilizes and acts quite resolutely and decisively. Provides a rebuff and resistance to any types of encroachment and invasions. He will respond to any dictatorial and coercive attempts and retaliate with force."

"When he gets involved in arguments, IEE will actively and sometimes aggressively assert his opinions and views. Suffers from irritability and edginess. For this reason often has trouble with building up bodily tension."

"His internal state and mood are dependent upon the nature of work that he has to do. If it's not interesting or seems useless, then his mood drops. For this reason, IEE is not prone to performing regular upkeep and maintenance of his living quarters."

"For Advisor, it is important to monitor the ongoing development of the situation."

"Discerning in the talents and abilities of others, perceptive of their implicit motives as well as character flaws."

"In extreme conditions becomes mobilized and gives a volitional rebuff."

Wow, the bolded stuff is really telling. Makes more sense than half the stuff you see written about these types, yet no one ever says it.
I'm tired of seeing all this "I love everyone so much, I would smile as I was brutally murdered because I'm making the killer happy, I'm so lovey and perfect OMGOMGOMGOMG" bullshit that so-called IEEs write about themselves and fill up these whole forums with. No one in the real world acts this way.

Though, the "lack of self control and motivation" seems very un-8 like. And 8s, unlike the personality you described, tend to suppress all emotion besides instinctive anger, although IEE is introverted...
Maybe the IEEs are more of a technical, nerdy type and less the hyperactive geeks we think of them as.

[anndelise]

Wow, the bolded stuff is really telling. Makes more sense than half the stuff you see written about these types, yet no one ever says it.
I'm tired of seeing all this "I love everyone so much, I would smile as I was brutally murdered because I'm making the killer happy, I'm so lovey and perfect OMGOMGOMGOMG" bullshit that so-called IEEs write about themselves and fill up these whole forums with. No one in the real world acts this way.

Though, the "lack of self control and motivation" seems very un-8 like. And 8s, unlike the personality you described, tend to suppress all emotion besides instinctive anger, although IEE is introverted...
Maybe the IEEs are more of a technical, nerdy type and less the hyperactive geeks we think of them as.

The majority of the bolded is IEE's Se role. That's why it's related to extreme (stressful) circumstances and why it's so uncontrolled. It's the point where a line has been crossed and they're fighting back, reestablishing their boundaries, needs, and wants. But lacking the finesse of those more familiar.

While I don't think it really fits e8, I suppose there might be an e8 IEE who has learned to control that aspect of themselves somewhat, or to set up circumstances that would support it beneficially somehow. But I think it more likely to fit a 7w8 rather than a true 8.

[Cerelict]

I think BulletsAndDoves is an IEE 8, he seems to be able to "mind-meld" and I get the impression that he keeps a much closer eye on people than others of his Soc type.

[Olly From Wally World]

Truck as an 8?

[Froody Blue Gem]

IEEs have super ego block access to se in some doses, to take action and be forceful (not the whole picture of who they are but in certain situations.) It revolves around willpower and stubbornness. It is more or less short lived but it's high enough access that it can be visible, and se + te access could make one relate to 8. 8's basic motivation/fear is not wanting to be controlled, and I see IEEs at least having the capacity to relating to this. Which is where it could connect to having an 8.

IEE is an extroverted type, 8 has some correlation with an E preference so I see it at least as more likely than EII 8 or IEI 8. Still a rare combo, but not impossible. This shouldn't limit someone from exploring it if it did match in some way. Though again, ne-fi and 8 alone don't quite match without context or looking at the other functions, other aspects of the individual, etc.

[NAWTEASE]

ENTP could be very well misidentified as ENFP Enneagram 8.

[Lord Pixel]

I don't think E8 IEE is too rare, but E1 probably doesn't exist lol. E8 IEE is probably uber authentic, everywhere they go they speak their opinion unapologetically and always let you know who they really are, unapologetically.