EIIs-INFjs how do you discipline children?

[dbmmama]

any EIIs out there with kids? if so, how do you discipline your children, what methods, what way of saying it or consequences or lecturing or limits or what?

[redbaron]

My mother is EII. She's a good mom. Had it pretty easy with two easy kids. My brother and I were non-rebellious, cautious, etc. She was always clearly the one in charge of the discipline and child-rearing in the household since my SEI father was an only child (the reasoning goes that since he never watched his parents deal with siblings, how could he possibly know what to do?). My mom was the middle child of five. Anyway, she wasn't super strict but definitely had ideas in her mind about how things should be and wasn't shy about enforcing those. Whether it was about little things like getting my ears pierced (for some reason she decided I couldn't get them pierced until I turned 13 years old. I have no idea why but it was like a law in the Bible or something with her and I had to abide by that) or something bigger when I was older such as not being allowed to ride on my boyfriend's motorcycle--her decisions were sometimes random but I knew that she thought they were for my own good. She was very consistent and fairly non-emotional when carrying out consequences (such as spanking, when we were little) or whatever. On the few occasions that we were disrespectful of her, her feelings were very hurt and she would cry. I wouldn't say she lectured but she did talk a LOT about her own experiences when there was some issue or problem and she'd try to relate her experiences to our own and explain unendingly why something was right or wrong. I got the impression that although she said I could be anything I wanted to be in life, she actually in her heart of hearts wanted me to be just like her. LOL But maybe lots of moms are that way. Now that I'm a mom and "just like her" I find her giving me advice on child-rearing (but carefully, only if I ask or if it's clear that there's a problem) as if her way is the only way and if I would just do it the way she did it, I'd have no problems. I think over the years, she's realized that her methods don't always work on every kid. But anyway. I digress.

[dbmmama]

My mother is EII. She's a good mom. Had it pretty easy with two easy kids. My brother and I were non-rebellious, cautious, etc. She was always clearly the one in charge of the discipline and child-rearing in the household since my SEI father was an only child (the reasoning goes that since he never watched his parents deal with siblings, how could he possibly know what to do?). My mom was the middle child of five. Anyway, she wasn't super strict but definitely had ideas in her mind about how things should be and wasn't shy about enforcing those. Whether it was about little things like getting my ears pierced (for some reason she decided I couldn't get them pierced until I turned 13 years old. I have no idea why but it was like a law in the Bible or something with her and I had to abide by that) or something bigger when I was older such as not being allowed to ride on my boyfriend's motorcycle--her decisions were sometimes random but I knew that she thought they were for my own good. She was very consistent and fairly non-emotional when carrying out consequences (such as spanking, when we were little) or whatever. On the few occasions that we were disrespectful of her, her feelings were very hurt and she would cry. I wouldn't say she lectured but she did talk a LOT about her own experiences when there was some issue or problem and she'd try to relate her experiences to our own and explain unendingly why something was right or wrong. I got the impression that although she said I could be anything I wanted to be in life, she actually in her heart of hearts wanted me to be just like her. LOL But maybe lots of moms are that way. Now that I'm a mom and "just like her" I find her giving me advice on child-rearing (but carefully, only if I ask or if it's clear that there's a problem) as if her way is the only way and if I would just do it the way she did it, I'd have no problems. I think over the years, she's realized that her methods don't always work on every kid. But anyway. I digress.

thanks, well, now you've freaked me out because that sounds like ME and i was trying to solidify my mil's type.

[dbmmama]

thanks, well, now you've freaked me out because that sounds like ME and i was trying to solidify my mil's type.

shit, and at the same time my mil too. only thing about her is that she NEVER followed through on any consequences with her kids, they were definitely the ones in control, as much as she lectured them. they still got away with whatever they wanted to. not that i'm strict, i'm not very strict. but if it's something that i deem as a rule, i have a good reason and it will be followed.

would an Fe be more "talk" and an Fi more about enforcing?

[redbaron]

shit, and at the same time my mil too. only thing about her is that she NEVER followed through on any consequences with her kids, they were definitely the ones in control, as much as she lectured them. they still got away with whatever they wanted to. not that i'm strict, i'm not very strict. but if it's something that i deem as a rule, i have a good reason and it will be followed.

would an Fe be more "talk" and an Fi more about enforcing?

I dunno. Both could be either. and it's all muddled under the heading of "Mother". I think that in that role, many people act differently than their initial instinct, based on how they were raised or how they think they ought to be. So it can be really hard to tell.

I'm creative and I don't talk very much in the same way that my mother talked to us. I'm more about creating a positive atmosphere and less about telling my kids specific things about the way things are and how they ought to act. I mean, unless they ask me specifically. I probably do a lot less deliberate teaching and allow them to explore more on their own than my mother did. I would be a very loose homeschooler. In fact, I don't think homeschooling would be that good for my kids because I'm not very structured. My mom could have done it pretty well I think even though she's not terribly organized.

[dbmmama]

I dunno. Both could be either. and it's all muddled under the heading of "Mother". I think that in that role, many people act differently than their initial instinct, based on how they were raised or how they think they ought to be. So it can be really hard to tell.

I'm creative and I don't talk very much in the same way that my mother talked to us. I'm more about creating a positive atmosphere and less about telling my kids specific things about the way things are and how they ought to act. I mean, unless they ask me specifically. I probably do a lot less deliberate teaching and allow them to explore more on their own than my mother did. I would be a very loose homeschooler. In fact, I don't think homeschooling would be that good for my kids because I'm not very structured. My mom could have done it pretty well I think even though she's not terribly organized.

now WE do sound alike. i do homeschool my kids very loosely but i have faith that it is all working out just as it's suppose to. i follow my inner knowings of what to do with them.

my mil was a teacher, in THAT stuff she was strict, what they learned what EXACTLY what SHE thought they should learn, no less at all. but it backfired for my hubby, he now hates learning new things because of her "making" him for so long. everything was a "lesson." never a breather for him so he hid in books and music.

[redbaron]

now WE do sound alike. i do homeschool my kids very loosely but i have faith that it is all working out just as it's suppose to. i follow my inner knowings of what to do with them.

my mil was a teacher, in THAT stuff she was strict, what they learned what EXACTLY what SHE thought they should learn, no less at all. but it backfired for my hubby, he now hates learning new things because of her "making" him for so long. everything was a "lesson." never a breather for him so he hid in books and music.

See, I think you could be IEI. I feel like I see in you and you have plenty of creative also in other threads on the board.

As for your mil, another way to think about her is through intertype relations. How did she get along with her husband (do you know his type)? and what type is your husband/her son? She could be EII. There are lots of EII teachers. My mom was a teacher also and I know at least one, probably two other EII teachers.

I like to hide in books and music even now

[dbmmama]

See, I think you could be IEI. I feel like I see in you and you have plenty of creative also in other threads on the board.

As for your mil, another way to think about her is through intertype relations. How did she get along with her husband (do you know his type)? and what type is your husband/her son? She could be EII. There are lots of EII teachers. My mom was a teacher also and I know at least one, probably two other EII teachers.

I like to hide in books and music even now

i'm trying to figure everybody out.

my minde and hellothere remind me of my mil. a certain naive energy, especially minde, that my mil has. especially the thread where someone was telling minde that she needs to be careful to not expect her students to be her duels. and that is what my mil does, she expects them to be Te and Si. she wishes she became a doctor, but her parents expected a teacher and so, she went with their expectations not her own dreams. never even considered it really.

as far as me, i'm thinking SEE right now. too much Se going on for it to not be in ego. and gamma values seem right too. i'm trying to see if my hubby is iei or ili. but am leaning toward ili.

for me too, i don't and never did hide in books or music. i never cared for fiction. i'm a nonfiction person. and only as an adult. i express through music and play and dancing and moving and doing....... i've always wanted to bring my "dreamworld" INTO physical reality, to manifest it.

[redbaron]

i'm trying to figure everybody out.

my minde and hellothere remind me of my mil. a certain naive energy, especially minde, that my mil has. especially the thread where someone was telling minde that she needs to be careful to not expect her students to be her duels. and that is what my mil does, she expects them to be Te and Si. she wishes she became a doctor, but her parents expected a teacher and so, she went with their expectations not her own dreams. never even considered it really.

as far as me, i'm thinking SEE right now. too much Se going on for it to not be in ego. and gamma values seem right too. i'm trying to see if my hubby is iei or ili. but am leaning toward ili.

for me too, i don't and never did hide in books or music. i never cared for fiction. i'm a nonfiction person. and only as an adult. i express through music and play and dancing and moving and doing....... i've always wanted to bring my "dreamworld" INTO physical reality, to manifest it.

Oh okay. SEE/ILI duality? That's cool. And as for the EII thing, I think expectations might be a theme for them somehow. I know that for my mother, her own parents' expectations played a huge role in her decisions and she had certain expectations for us that she assumed we would take into consideration. My mom puts other's expectations always ahead of her own dreams or desires. Always.

[Minde]

I don't have my own children so I haven't really raised any, but I have worked with kids quite a bit, even acting as a sort of temporary surrogate mother from time to time.

I have learned (and already always knew, I think) that most "discipline" problems, as in punishment, can be avoided with good communication and planning ahead. For example, it's the end of the day and the kids are getting antsy. If you don't plan ahead, things could go rather bad. But, if you think about the kids' needs - even just basic, like food and access to a bathroom - then you start to see where the problems originate and act to head them off before they start. If you look at it as "the kids are getting antsy because they're hungry and tired and bored" instead of "the kids are evil brats" then life really goes so much better. You can then prepare a meal, find activities, and provide a place and time to rest. I have found that planning and thinking like that really helps keep the trouble to a minimum.

As far as rules go... Well, first of all, they have to have good reasons and make sense. Second, I make rules only if I see I need them. For example, say I have some kids I'm responsible for and I also am working on a project like, say, a painting. As opposed to starting out with a harsh, "Don't touch my stuff! And especially don't draw with my pencils on that paper!" which not only starts out with negative expectations (which kids tend to live up, or down, to) but also gives them ideas of trouble they can make, I start by showing them what I'm doing, explaining the project and tools and why I do what I do. I might say something like, "Here's the set of pencils I use to do my sketches. I have them right here so they're handy when I have an idea. It can be really frustrating when they're not there when I need them. And over here is this really special paper I got on sale last week. Usually it's [x amount of dollars], so it's pretty expensive and I want to be really careful with it. It would be really sad if it all got ruined, wouldn't it?" I might ask questions about what they think and answer any that they had, too. The idea is to build rapport and give them the same information that I have, to show them my perspective. If they look like they don't get it right away, I might specifically add something like, "If you want to use any of my stuff here, come and ask me. I might say no, but I might say yes, too. Just make sure you get my permission either way." Generally speaking, that approach works well and I don't have too many problems.

There are a few times, though, when kids make bad decisions. In that case, I start out by talking with them, finding out the reasons they had for their decisions. Sometimes their reasons are somewhat legitimate. Other times they're not and then I figure out what the appropriate consequence is. Often I'll figure it out with the kid, agreeing on what's a fair recompense for the crime committed.

A lot of this is age dependent, too. Younger kids tend to need more definite guidelines, while I like giving older ones more freedom and responsibility. My philosophy in that is start out with lots of freedom and only restrict it when they show they can't be responsible with it. And when I do restrict, make sure they understand where I'm coming from and why I'm doing what I'm doing.

With kids - or anyone, really - it's amazing sometimes to see what can happen when I treat them with confidence and liking right from the start. If you can show that you care about them and think that they're capable, they often find that they can go further than even they thought they could. Love, encouragement, positive reinforcement - all go a long way in working well with kids.


I'm pretty sure once I have kids of my own, though, some of my views and understanding will likely change. I know that it's one thing to simply work a lot with kids and another to be their parent.

[UDP]

Someone's going to be a great mother.

[dbmmama]

I don't have my own children so I haven't really raised any, but I have worked with kids quite a bit, even acting as a sort of temporary surrogate mother from time to time.

I have learned (and already always knew, I think) that most "discipline" problems, as in punishment, can be avoided with good communication and planning ahead. For example, it's the end of the day and the kids are getting antsy. If you don't plan ahead, things could go rather bad. But, if you think about the kids' needs - even just basic, like food and access to a bathroom - then you start to see where the problems originate and act to head them off before they start. If you look at it as "the kids are getting antsy because they're hungry and tired and bored" instead of "the kids are evil brats" then life really goes so much better. You can then prepare a meal, find activities, and provide a place and time to rest. I have found that planning and thinking like that really helps keep the trouble to a minimum.

As far as rules go... Well, first of all, they have to have good reasons and make sense. Second, I make rules only if I see I need them. For example, say I have some kids I'm responsible for and I also am working on a project like, say, a painting. As opposed to starting out with a harsh, "Don't touch my stuff! And especially don't draw with my pencils on that paper!" which not only starts out with negative expectations (which kids tend to live up, or down, to) but also gives them ideas of trouble they can make, I start by showing them what I'm doing, explaining the project and tools and why I do what I do. I might say something like, "Here's the set of pencils I use to do my sketches. I have them right here so they're handy when I have an idea. It can be really frustrating when they're not there when I need them. And over here is this really special paper I got on sale last week. Usually it's [x amount of dollars], so it's pretty expensive and I want to be really careful with it. It would be really sad if it all got ruined, wouldn't it?" I might ask questions about what they think and answer any that they had, too. The idea is to build rapport and give them the same information that I have, to show them my perspective. If they look like they don't get it right away, I might specifically add something like, "If you want to use any of my stuff here, come and ask me. I might say no, but I might say yes, too. Just make sure you get my permission either way." Generally speaking, that approach works well and I don't have too many problems.

There are a few times, though, when kids make bad decisions. In that case, I start out by talking with them, finding out the reasons they had for their decisions. Sometimes their reasons are somewhat legitimate. Other times they're not and then I figure out what the appropriate consequence is. Often I'll figure it out with the kid, agreeing on what's a fair recompense for the crime committed.

A lot of this is age dependent, too. Younger kids tend to need more definite guidelines, while I like giving older ones more freedom and responsibility. My philosophy in that is start out with lots of freedom and only restrict it when they show they can't be responsible with it. And when I do restrict, make sure they understand where I'm coming from and why I'm doing what I'm doing.

With kids - or anyone, really - it's amazing sometimes to see what can happen when I treat them with confidence and liking right from the start. If you can show that you care about them and think that they're capable, they often find that they can go further than even they thought they could. Love, encouragement, positive reinforcement - all go a long way in working well with kids.


I'm pretty sure once I have kids of my own, though, some of my views and understanding will likely change. I know that it's one thing to simply work a lot with kids and another to be their parent.

now WE sound alike!! whoa!!!! do you REALLY do what you said here or is it what you believe? because i know my mil TALKS and believes in this way but her actions don't DO this, her actions are not this down to earth. i don't TALK like this, i talk "dreamier" but this is what i DO.

[dbmmama]

now WE sound alike!! whoa!!!! do you REALLY do what you said here or is it what you believe? because i know my mil TALKS and believes in this way but her actions don't DO this, her actions are not this down to earth. i don't TALK like this, i talk "dreamier" but this is what i DO.

really!!! the only place i differ is in saying someone made a "bad" decision. i don't think there are bad decisions, only decisions that come with their natural consequences. and it is the child's decision to make them or not and to live with the consequence that goes along with them.

i don't believe in putting those judgments on kids because it's the only way, i believe, that helps them to think for themselves what is right and wrong for them as they grow up. it is not MY place to say what is right or wrong for another.

[Minde]

now WE sound alike!! whoa!!!! do you REALLY do what you said here or is it what you believe? because i know my mil TALKS and believes in this way but her actions don't DO this, her actions are not this down to earth. i don't TALK like this, i talk "dreamier" but this is what i DO.

I don't know how to answer that. I was talking from my experience, from what I've learned through trial and error and discussion with others who also have experience.

It's kind of like asking, "Are you a liar?" Or "Are you deluded?" Neither "yes" or "no" can answer that question adequately. You'd have to see me in action and get information from outside sources to know for sure. Would you like a reference of some kind?

I will say this, though - while I think it's a good idea to plan ahead and think about the kids' needs, I'm not always the best at implementation. For example, unless they're a certain type of kid, I'm not good at being an entertainer. There are some kinds of kids that I connect with less easily than others. I'm not an excellent cook. I can also tend to freeze up when there's lots of pressure and lots of decisions to be made. I don't always take the time to really get to know the kids I work with. And so on. I do have my weaknesses and faults.

really!!! the only place i differ is in saying someone made a "bad" decision. i don't think there are bad decisions, only decisions that come with their natural consequences. and it is the child's decision to make them or not and to live with the consequence that goes along with them.

i don't believe in putting those judgments on kids because it's the only way, i believe, that helps them to think for themselves what is right and wrong for them as they grow up. it is not MY place to say what is right or wrong for another.

Bad decision, poor decision - *shrug* - it's something that you don't want to repeat. Like taking my pencils and scribbling all over my expensive paper. It's wrong to deface or destroy another's property without their permission. It's also wrong to murder someone. Etc. Those are "bad" decisions. I think sometimes these principles need to be established in the child before they experience them. So, I'm not adverse to explaining to a child what and why I think something is wrong. Especially the why part, though.

[dbmmama]

I don't know how to answer that. I was talking from my experience, from what I've learned through trial and error and discussion with others who also have experience.

It's kind of like asking, "Are you a liar?" Or "Are you deluded?" Neither "yes" or "no" can answer that question adequately. You'd have to see me in action and get information from outside sources to know for sure. Would you like a reference of some kind?

I will say this, though - while I think it's a good idea to plan ahead and think about the kids' needs, I'm not always the best at implementation. For example, unless they're a certain type of kid, I'm not good at being an entertainer. There are some kinds of kids that I connect with less easily than others. I'm not an excellent cook. I can also tend to freeze up when there's lots of pressure and lots of decisions to be made. I don't always take the time to really get to know the kids I work with. And so on. I do have my weaknesses and faults.


Bad decision, poor decision - *shrug* - it's something that you don't want to repeat. Like taking my pencils and scribbling all over my expensive paper. It's wrong to deface or destroy another's property without their permission. It's also wrong to murder someone. Etc. Those are "bad" decisions. I think sometimes these principles need to be established in the child before they experience them. So, I'm not adverse to explaining to a child what and why I think something is wrong. Especially the why part, though.

yes, ok, i get it.

i guess it goes to how well you know yourself. i know that how i write and speak online is different than what i do. it's just how i am. i know that.

do you know what i mean about someone who proclaims to know so much about kids but doesn't actually implement it? or could that be you? sorry...you said you aren't good with implementation.

i'm good with the understanding kids needs AND i implement everything you said in your first post. i walk my talk in that regard. that's why i have taught parenting classes and others found me their "guru". i don't just talk about it, i live it.

well we all have our weaknesses and faults...

the whole decision thing, i try to take "judgment" out of it. i know that there is always a REASON that kids behave the way they do, even if it's what we consider as bad. they may actually WANT to destroy your paper. the question then becomes WHY?

if we don't ask why, the behavior will continue in more progressively destructive ways. but when we look at what is going on beyond the actual behavior, we can give the child what they actually needed. maybe the child really likes your paper or wants your attention or is having trouble at home with a sibling and doesn't know another way to deal with it, etc.........then if we fill THOSE needs within the child, the "bad" behavior stops automatically.

i've worked with children myself for 23 years as well as having 4 of my own. and even though i am a HUGE fan of theory of child development, psychology, parenting, etc...i implement what i learn. my mil has studied the same stuff as I but isn't good at implementing it.

more later, gotta go

[Minde]

yes, ok, i get it.

i guess it goes to how well you know yourself. i know that how i write and speak online is different than what i do. it's just how i am. i know that.

do you know what i mean about someone who proclaims to know so much about kids but doesn't actually implement it? or could that be you? sorry...you said you aren't good with implementation.

i'm good with the understanding kids needs AND i implement everything you said in your first post. i walk my talk in that regard. that's why i have taught parenting classes and others found me their "guru". i don't just talk about it, i live it.

well we all have our weaknesses and faults...

the whole decision thing, i try to take "judgment" out of it. i know that there is always a REASON that kids behave the way they do, even if it's what we consider as bad. they may actually WANT to destroy your paper. the question then becomes WHY?

if we don't ask why, the behavior will continue in more progressively destructive ways. but when we look at what is going on beyond the actual behavior, we can give the child what they actually needed. maybe the child really likes your paper or wants your attention or is having trouble at home with a sibling and doesn't know another way to deal with it, etc.........then if we fill THOSE needs within the child, the "bad" behavior stops automatically.

i've worked with children myself for 23 years as well as having 4 of my own. and even though i am a HUGE fan of theory of child development, psychology, parenting, etc...i implement what i learn. my mil has studied the same stuff as I but isn't good at implementing it.

more later, gotta go

You... didn't really understand me. I get what you're saying and even agree with the vast majority of what you profess, but I think you're jumping to erroneous conclusions about me. (I find that a little insulting, actually.) But, oh, well. It's not that big a deal, I guess. I don't really have the time at the moment to get into a super long clarifying discussion, so we might have to leave it at that.

[dbmmama]

You... didn't really understand me. I get what you're saying and even agree with the vast majority of what you profess, but I think you're jumping to erroneous conclusions about me. (I find that a little insulting, actually.) But, oh, well. It's not that big a deal, I guess. I don't really have the time at the moment to get into a super long clarifying discussion, so we might have to leave it at that.

i think this kind of conversation would be better in person. sorry i didn't understand you here and i really didn't mean to be insulting, i just talk out my thoughts to clarify for myself my understanding, it's not personal, sorry.

i think we think more alike than this conversation warrants.

[yeves]

My EII cousin has two kids, one 6 year old and the other will be turning 3 very soon. I noticed that she finds it stressful to keep things organized around their apartment. She will attempt to organize her space but later throws her hands in the air and gives up on it. However, any amount of disorder still bothers and niggles her even when she tries to ignore it (Si hidden agenda?). She tries to teach her older daughter to help with the housework - put her toys back into the boxes when she's done playing, carry her cup and dirty plate to the kitchen when she is done with it, even wash some of the dishes and help her do the laundry. I asked her whether she thinks it's too early to ask this of a child, these are the only years that she will have to play and be carefree. She said that it's never too early to teach kids how to take care of themselves, that it will be harder when she's a teenager. While rationally I agree with her I continue feeling like she is pushing a part of household work onto her eldest child.

[Beautiful sky]

I explain to them what their actions are and how the affect others and what they can expect to happen given their choices. I'm not the best at getting unruly kids to stop being aggressive and mean. I'm not aggressive and forceful.

[Skepsis]

I'n a SAHM to 3 kids under seven. One is on the autism spectrum. It's easy to say how one could be as a parent, but then you become one...I have a hard time. I have a hard time keeping up with the mess. Sometimes I keep up with it, sometimes I let the dishes pile up, the laundry becomes a mountain, there are toys on the floor, and I about have a nervous breakdown because I can't stand the mess! I tell everyone they have to give me a few days notice before they come over or I will not open the door. I will not let anyone witness the chaos! Sometimes I feel like a failure as a parent. I usually find myself picking up their toys because I ask them to, they won't do it, and I don't feel like fighting with them over it. I'm bad at sticking with schedules, I'm a terrible disciplinarian and my 5 year old talks back to me and I am just am like, you've got to be kidding me??? My SLI husband tells them to do something, they do it. I tell them to do something, and I usually have to tell them ten times and threaten to call their daddy. My husband says they can sense I'm full of crap when I threaten them and I don't follow through with disciplinary actions. Evidently I don't have a commanding presence. Leaving the house is difficult. The grocery store is a level of hell where I have lost my wits and self respect. I bribe, I make up tall tales, I act overly excited to get them to listen to me. It works sometimes. People tell me I'm a good mom, and compared to some I'm not bad, but I could use some improvements. I think I'm overwhelmed because I do everything myself and never get a break. I hate asking people to help me with my own kids. I need a super nanny. I probably belong on that tv show. I love them and they love me. They're great. The best thing in life. But I feel in over my head sometimes. But it'll be alright . I'm going to go eat a chocolate bar in the dark closet now, so I don't have to share.

My life: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5893294

I used to have much more trouble with discipline, but I've really stepped up to the plate here. It wasn't easy and it is always unnatural for me to assert myself to such an extent, but they really need someone in their life to guide them. I finally had enough with their behavior. I didn't understand it, couldn't relate to it. I was a quiet easy going kid and I am best at dealing with other quiet, easy going children. My children are way more outgoing and assertive than I ever was and I cannot relate to their constant need for attention.

Then it dawned on me that they could very well be that way because of how I was. Because I was so passive and because I didn't leave a very strong impression on them, or have a commanding attention, I actually encouraged behavior that is the opposite of what I would've liked. I would ignore the beginning signs of a behavior coming on because I didn't want to deal with it and then the full behavior would come head on and it was overwhelming for me. I would get temper tantrums in the store, in front of guests, their play friends, etc. They weren't going to bed when they needed to, not helping with clean up, watching too much television and playing too many video games. It was out of control. Then I finally said enough and they aren't happy because I changed my approach, but it is working.

If we go to the store, I tell them that if they behave they will be rewarded. Sometimes, it is a treat they can pick out at the store, or it is something special we will do when we get home. If they act up, not only will they not get the treat, but they will loose a privilege at home. It is the latter that really, really works. I let them know that it is a privilege to be able to watch their television show or play a game on the Wii. If they can't be considerate, kind, or respectful, they will lose what they like. Basically it is, "I will considerate to you if you will be considerate to me."

Another struggle I had with both of my girls was when it was time for me to take them to daycare on my way to work. Each did it around the same age too, like three. They would either take their shoes and socks off, or their coat, or both, in defiance of having to leave the house. It was very frustrating and they would cry and make a big dramatic scene. Finally, I decided that they will go as is. I would just pick them up and carry them to the car. They did not expect this. One day it was really cold out and I carried my youngest out to the car without socks, shoes, or a coat. That was the last time she ever did that to me. It felt so bad having to do it, but I couldn't let them behave like that any longer.