(ENFp it is and ultimately, it does not matter much)
(ENFp it is and ultimately, it does not matter much)
I don't remember if you were supposed to be any specific type earlier. But how about ENFp? (Just a general impression based on your description.)
ENTj Would fit quite well with many things and even to your friendships.
But I don't know. I guess you are ENFp then. I would think ENFjs are more "negative" somehow. Then of course some parts sound ESFj or ESFp but some parts don't. Even ENTp crossed my mind.
But really your story reminded me of this picture used in socionics.com ENTj description:
But I think I won't participate in this discussion more than this so you don't have to buy new cups and plates...
I think I still get ENFp from your overall description Kim
But let's try some simple practical differences...
First thing Quadra. Do you feel like you need an higher purpose in which to "believe" in order to find your life fulfilling, or you think that it's more than enough to enjoy it day-to-day, finding new ideas, exploring the world, etc? Do you find yourself unmotivated if you don't have something in the future you can look towards?
Second thing. Do you tend to "know" how to improve the mood of a certain setting, or do you find yourself having hard time to know what to do with the mood information, and would prefer that somebody else could deal with it? For example if you go on a date which role of the two you prefer to take?
Also, do you try to go long ways in order to avoid unpleasant emotions, trying to move on without dealing with them, or do you accept them as a natural part of life to deal with necessarily in order to be able to get things done?
Oh this is actually going to be the most helpful I think. Can you easily mutitask or not? ENFjs are BAD at multi-tasking, whereas ENFps and ESTps are the best at it.
@XoX: ENTj had crossed my mind as well.
fatti non foste a viver come bruti ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza
Kim, find out your enneagram type (the actual type and which wing you are).
There has been threads about that and it seems there are reasonable correlations between socionics and enneagram. Even though not completely reliable it could help to confirm your type.
7w6 can be enfj tooOriginally Posted by XoX
fatti non foste a viver come bruti ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza
It's a renin dichtomy, process-oriented and result-oriented. Even if, it's switched, since process-oriented are generally bad at it, and result-oriented good at it. INFj Fi subtype should be okay at it, even if prefer not to, whereas Ne subtype should be really bad at it. Tell me if your observations do not match the chart, because mines until now do.Originally Posted by Diana
Uhm the charts provided by smilingeyes should suffice!
fatti non foste a viver come bruti ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza
I'd like you to be an ENFp. The only thing I noticed is that if you're annoyed by someone (because of illogical statements and/or injustice) you're quick to confront them, in a way other ENFps on this forum plus myself aren't. But that could be simply a biographical difference, nothing to do with type. What you were indignant about always seemed pretty ENFp-ish to me.
Perfect, Diana! That made me happy.Originally Posted by Diana
Yes, I would agree that I am more about people. I feel energized by people around me and I REALLY need human interaction, even if it's just working at a coffee shop rather than at home.And Kim, I think we are similar in quite a few ways, but you seem to be more people-oriented, friendlier and concerned (big-picturewise) than I am.
Phaedrus: ENFp has been the assumption all along. But Joy pointed out I might be ENFj and I have come to think that I might not be ENFp after all.
XoX:Can you elaborate?ENTj Would fit quite well with many things and even to your friendships.
Would you mind pointing out where you see these types?But I don't know. I guess you are ENFp then. I would think ENFjs are more "negative" somehow. Then of course some parts sound ESFj or ESFp but some parts don't. Even ENTp crossed my mind.
I can't see it.But really your story reminded me of this picture used in socionics.com ENTj description:
Please do. I am not set on being ENFp, actually. I am not sure if I am. So please participate. I just wanted people to not have to focus on bits and pieces and chatroom behavior, so I posted this.But I think I won't participate in this discussion more than this so you don't have to buy new cups and plates...
Currently I'm mostly going to elaborate on the friendship issue. Assuming you are ENTj the list would read...Originally Posted by Kim
My closest friends: Activity, Activity (both ethical subtypes i.e. almost duals), Look-a-Like and two I have not typed and won’t type.
Close friends: Comparative, Activity (sensory subtype), Supervisee, Supervisee, Dual, Semi-Dual, Semi-Dual, Semi-Dual, Look-a-like, Contrary
There are not too many types that fit that friend list better. ENFp would fit ok too. ENFj and ENTp not that well.
Also I could see as your hidden agenda. I mean you are eager to achieve and be "stronger". You also spoke about some problems there but seemed as if you don't really care about it (ENTj style). You seem to befastwhateveryoudo which is kind of ENTj. I remember you filling in one test on my first day in the chat and you were super fast which kind of made me think you can't be ENFp. Whereas an ENTj would probably be lighting fast in that kind of stuff.
These were the first things to jump out. There was also the travelling stories and liking children but not ready to settle down which sounds exactly like my ENTj friend, lol. Hmm..he might be ENTp too but I'm guessing ENTj. I'm just not sure you are F anymore It seems like you have this role of being cute and cuddly but when something you don't like happens it suddenly drops and you go into "Benny mode" and become confrontational and start throwing stuff (could be the ENTj jekyll/hyde thingy which was mentioned somewhere). Also your dislike for ISTps could be because they are actually your supervisors. Then you like some things in ESTps but some things annoy you. They could be your benefactees. I might get back to other things later unless something very conflicting comes up. I have no other realistic backing so far so I might be completely wrong.
And this is not my _opinion_. I'm just exploring if a case could be built around ENTj. Ok I could build another case for ENFj but you just come out as a bit too positive and "real" for what I would expect from an ENFj. But who knows. And in the end you probably end up being ENFp again. Ah, the ENTp thing was because your confrontational nature reminds me more of Polly than of ENFps. But I haven't really thought about the ENTp thing so far.
Edit: I think the enneagram 7 is typically Exxp (if I remember it correctly). Although 7w8 used to be possible for ENTjs 7w6 for ENFjs said FDG earlier in this thread
Edit 2: Well I don't think ENTjs run in circles that much but...
what about ESFj if you're F? i have no idea at this point what you could be. i do remember you thought you and ashton had a benefit relationship though.
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
ENFp seems probable.
Well...she likes INTps and her friendlist would not be very typical for ESFj. The people orientation, phone calls, throwing stuff etc might be ESFj But then again for example my wife (ESFj) has some ESFp friends yes but she calls them "tangent people" because in conversation they so often go out from the tangent. So talking with them for a longer period of time is kind of heavy for her. She doesn't seem to get much from it. They are more or less just people she can hang out with for a while or go for a coffee but not much more.Originally Posted by implied
ESFj and many ESFps forming a close relationship is less likely than with e.g. ENTj or even ENFj. About ENFps and ESFps...it seems some ENFps like this relations although it is often shallow and some ENFps don't. Anyways being good friends with so many ESFps and liking even INTps(!) sounds mostly a gamma thing to me. But well...people can bond over quadra lines Especially ENFps
I really doubt ESFj because I doubt that I am dominant and I don't think is my role function.Originally Posted by implied
PS: I am in no way opposed to being ENFp, please don't get me wrong. But Joy's doubts sparked my interest and I also see the differences between myself and other ENFps here. I do see the similarities, too, however. So I am open to any suggestions.
this is also the role function for ENFj.Originally Posted by Kim
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
But that makes us Contraries.Originally Posted by Dynamicism
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
The third and fourth functions are conscious and we they could provide clues. Which sound more like you?
Te: The third function of the ENFj is Te, by which objective logic substantiates itself through various thought processes. Since the ENFj type thrives in a world of ethical and non-logical and subjective principles, it may be rendered difficult for this type to collect multiple thoughts, modes and trends of thinking in order to register them into a structured and growing databank of strong, factual knowledge. In result of this inability, expected behaviors should include inflexibility to changing life situations, extreme formality or informality, not keeping promises, unable to concern themselves with keeping track of math related life skills, such as bookkeeping, income and living expenses, falling into temptation without calculating the cost, and misunderstanding or unaware of new modes of thinking and ways of doing things.
Si: The fourth function of the ENFj is Si, by which the essence of experiences arrive and insights into their development arise. Since the ENFj type thrives in a world of abstract and non-concrete theoretical principles, it may be rendered difficult for this type to maintain from within an active index of all experiences developed and derived through time, and the patterns of ones own personal life as gauged through the senses. In result of this inability, expected behaviors should include losing track of ones own physical state and a deterioration of healthy physical practices, avoiding surrounding details or noticing too much detail and obsessing about it, suspicion or defensiveness about personal appearance, distant physical look in eyes and appearing to others as though unaware, walking or looking past people, objects, and things as though they were not there, static taste and inflexible habits, unsure of aesthetic understanding, or an obsession with cleanliness.Also... I don't want to get into a touchy subject... but I really do think that dual relationships provide important type clues. The fullfillment of our fifth and sixth functions via a healthy dual is something that should be a pleasant thing and invaluable thing to us... this is the cornerstone of socionics (model A). When people say that they don't like their dual, even the healthy ones, it suggests that they are likely mistyped. That said, if you don't mind reading the following descriptions and commenting on which sounds like it would be most healthy and happy for you.Se: The third function of the ENFp is Se, by which the essence of experiences arrive and insights into their development arise. Since the ENFp type thrives in a world of abstract and non-concrete theoretical principles, it may be rendered difficult for this type to collect multiple physical sensations from the eyes, ears, nose, taste and touch in order to register into a readily available databank their entirety and the various conscious considerations concerning them. In result of this inability, expected behaviors should include a lack of motive concerning physical activities, lack of discipline, inability to control aggressive tendencies with unexpected outburst or extreme passivity and non-aggressive, pushing others without good reason or not pushing hard enough when needed, sluggishness and irresponsibility, lack of willpower and initiative, breaking down when put under pressure, shutting down during stressful situations, or inability to push talents and abilities.
Ti: The fourth function of the ENFp is Ti, by which objective logic substantiates itself through various thought processes. Since the ENFp type thrives in a world of ethical and non-logical and subjective principles, it may be rendered difficult for this type to deconstruct and disassemble various levels of thought, concepts, and ideas in order to gauge a sense of their inner workings or how they habitually function. In result of this inability, expected behaviors should include an inability to discern logically the good and bad parts of a concept or the logical importance of a concept, intentionally analyzing too much or not enough, unable to order task in a way that does not cause fatigue, becoming offended when logical mistakes or illogical nature is pointed out, and making impatient and rash decisions before analyzing a situation fully.
The Inspector is good at scheduling arrangements and actions for the nearest future, thinking over the details in advance. Such a concrete program of actions is exactly what The Mentor needs, who is 'sinking in doubts'. The Inspector's strict logic of facts leaves no space for exaggerations and conjectures. His cold realism calms down his restless dual, who likes The Inspector's love for stability and order in everything. The Mentor finds him a helper, support and 'good haven' in his stormy emotional life. He easily allows his partner to guide him in practical issues, although he may be obstinate in ideas. In addition, he distracts The Inspector from being too scrupulous in the details, focusing him on general rules and the final objective.
The Inspector possesses well-developed will power. He is capable of overcoming any difficulties with enviable courage and stoicism. He is capable of 'holding in hands' his dual, never allowing him to lose his heart, to lose faith for success. He can mobilize himself and others in critical situations, but in everyday life he is enduring, can wait for natural upshot, without hurrying up events. He believes in educative meaning of personal experience.
The Inspector does not trust the feelings of the others. Trying not to show it, he is sometimes courteous and agreeable in communication. But he quickly gets tired of such efforts and needs solitude, switching his attention to work. He likes a partner like The Mentor, who is capable of ardent expression of his feelings. Such behavior leaves no space for doubts. In this case The Inspector has only to watch that these feelings remain stable, and to take care of the one whom needs him so much. Feeling coldness from the side of others, he shrinks into himself, becomes inaccessible and touchy. He can keep this pain inside for a long time, and this may even result in quarrels for nothing, for reasons seemingly quite irrelevant to the real problem. The Mentor also needs emotional discharging and is quite capable of provoking quarrels.
Another weak point of The Inspector is his inability to understand hidden motivations of people's behavior. This makes him mistrustful and reticent, and sometimes too suspicious. He may blame someone for things they've never done, and changing his mind may prove to be very difficult. On the other hand, The Inspector may underestimate a possible danger, may not mention either positive or negative perspectives of development of a situation. For this reason he may be blindly careless, hoping for victory of common sense. The Inspector has difficulties with due evaluation of people's potential capabilities, new ideas or non-traditional approaches. Others may see him as being too conservative or too dogmatic. The Mentor, who foresees all of this, gives advises at the right time, helps by deeds, takes preventive actions and explains the possible outcome of all undertakings.
The Mentor is capable of emotionally influencing people, of inspiring them with his ideas. He 'calculates' in advance all the options of exiting a critical situation. He is a person with a spiritual nature and he constantly strives for self-development. This in fact saves The Inspector from falling into a rut, which is characteristic of him because of his wish to put everything in order and then to change nothing. The Mentor likes great undertakings but does not evaluate his forces. He needs The Inspector's advice on taking business actions, on economy and rationality in spending money, on the use and quality of things. He needs a person, who will share with him responsibility and help in overcoming all the difficulties he has taken upon himself. Nobody can do it as efficiently as his dual.
The Mentor sometimes lacks will power and is undemanding of others concerning fulfillment of concrete work. He willingly gives people small errands, which many of them forget to fulfill – but not The Inspector! He is demanding of himself and others. He can organize the working process and achieve results. And The Mentor, getting thus inspired by him, can fulfill a huge volume of work in a short time, and so never disappoints his demanding partner.
The Mentor's weak point is his neglect in taking care of his own health and mental rest. He is afraid of being unaesthetic; discomfort in surrounding conditions or in his own appearance really unsettles him. The Inspector undertakes the issues of material security, creates comfort, advises concerning the partner's appearance, quality of foods etc. He is a good housemaster.
In general, what this dual pair is distinguished by is a certain 'aristocracy' and isolation from others, a complicated emotional life and fidelity to the sense of duty. One more mutual requirement of these types to each other: be prudent in your actions! For them 'imprudent' means 'not one of us', for they strive to avoid any uncertainty.The Craftsman easily detects smallest deviations from esthetic standards in the surrounding world; such disharmony makes him feel distressed, awakes in him a feeling of discomfort, the desire to improve the situation, to perfect what he achieved or actually possesses – not only in the material world, but in his intellectual and spiritual development as well. This is why The Craftsman is exigent to himself and often also to the others. He likes nothing drab, trite and banal, strives for improvement of his own, his friends and family, beginning from the appearance and health, and up to the mental development. He is very curious, has wide range of interests, often he is not self-confident because of increased self-criticism. He needs praise of his capabilities, encouragement of his efforts.
The Psychologist is just the kind of person who notices talents of the others, inspires them with belief in their capabilities, readily tells compliments. He notices even hidden capabilities and willingly encourages their development. This in turn very much commands respect of The Craftsman, who does not feel bored with such a partner. The Psychologist is useful to him also because he easily finds solutions to difficult situations, which would otherwise make The Craftsman feel depressed. Being thankful for that, The Craftsman takes care of the mental and external comfort of the one solving his internal problems.
The Psychologist very much needs a caring partner and finds relaxation for his emotional and restless soul in the 'quiet haven' of a friend, who is constant in his words and deeds, reliable and faithful. The Craftsman creates convenience and comfort for The Psychologist, who is not much adapted to the real life, thus giving him the opportunity to focus on spiritual and intellectual values, generate new ideas, which will bring the taste of novelty into their common affairs.
Everyday chores are usually undertaken by The Craftsman, who believes he can do them better. The Psychologist takes initiative in relations, can unite people around himself, and becomes the 'life of the party'. He gains people's favor, willingly advises on solving personal problems. He is a subtle psychologist, who understands well hidden motives of people. He emotionally demonstrates his attitude towards people; his sincerity, warmth and ingenuousness make others forgive his excessive straightforwardness and hot temper. He corrects The Craftsman's ethical mistakes, and often even his own, since he is not rancorous and likes people very much. His trustfulness disarms the incredulous Craftsman, and emotionality softens his more cold-tempered and reserved partner.
The Craftsman is reticent enough and does not like to demonstrate his feelings. He can put a distance in communication, seems to be arrogant and non-sociable. But in the very depths of his soul he is thankful to the person who takes responsibility for ethical issues on himself. He likes The Psychologist's spirit of trust, whose permanent optimism, capability of foreseeing the future and perspectives of various undertakings, finding ways out of any problems. The Psychologist raises The Craftsman's confidence of the future, decrease his skepticism and mistrust towards everything new, not well known or not proven by practice. In addition, The Craftsman is sometimes excessively nervous and mistrustful; he exaggerates possible dangers not to mention real ones. But The Psychologist, who lives more in the future than in the present, 'calculates' everything in advance and in such moments call for caution, and at the same time calms down his partner when an alarm is false.
The Craftsman is very technological and practical. He can work quickly and is well organized. He plans all stages of his work in advance, acquires all the necessary things in advance. He is enduring in perfecting details of his work, can separate important things from trifles, which is not an easy task for The Psychologist. The Psychologist's efficiency of working is high only in critical situations, while routine and monotonous, non-creative work deteriorates his vital tonus, being a source of boredom for this restless creative personality. The Psychologist gladly accepts a role of 'second' or 'assistant', which suits The Craftsman's commanding nature. The Craftsman does not like when others impose on him other ways of doing things than he would prefer. He is strives for real benefit and profit, unlike altruistic Psychologist, and this contributes to growth of material welfare of this dual pair.
The Psychologist needs a partner indulgent enough to his weak points: negligence at work, lack of consideration to rules, norms and hierarchy, outbursts of non-motivated aggression. The Craftsman is indulgent to such, sometimes they even amuse him. He likes the independent nature of The Psychologist, which does not encroach on his own independence.
The characteristic features of this dual pair are the independence from each other, as well as from others, harmony of relations and a restless spirit of creativity and self-development.
ARE YOU DOUBTING MY INTELLIGENCE?? MY GRASP ON REALITY???ARE YOU???? The sloth's wrath shall be upon you and you shall be hanging from a tree with organs upside down for all eternity! Ha!Originally Posted by Dynamicism
implied, I don't think I am ENFj. Joy's assumption that I could be just triggered my curiosity.
Aw <3. Fear not, lovely emo one. I get along fabulously with my contraries (should I indeed be ENFp) as long as there is no romance involved. So we are good!Originally Posted by gilligan87
My ESFj boss is the exact same way.Originally Posted by Kim
Assuming I'm with my dual (and the relationship does match the description), I have not felt this psychological gap you speak of. IMO, other factors, such as lifestyle and intelligence, play a HUGE role in the compatibility and understanding between people... I am certainly not psychologically close to one out of sixteen people in the world.As for duality, I do see the merits and the comfort of it. I just don't like the psychological distance. I don't dislike ISTps, but I never feel entirely understood. There is always this sense of "I don't get you, how can you be that way?" I agree that duality is comfortable, but that is not what I am looking for in a relationship. I like to be with someone who knows where I am coming from and who understands me fully. I don't need anyone to take care of my weaknesses because I am very capable of taking care of them myself (I hate paying bills, but really, it's not that hard nowadays....).
And duality isn't about someone taking care of your weaknesses from my point of view... it's more so about somebody appreciating your strengths and you appreciating their strengths.
So what would this mean?Originally Posted by Joy
See, I read the description of duality and don't see the appeal for myself. It is not that I didn't experience it, it is that I don't feel that it is the type of relationship I am looking for. I prefer someone with my energy level and my way of communicating emotions.And duality isn't about someone taking care of your weaknesses from my point of view... it's more so about somebody appreciating your strengths and you appreciating their strengths.
no, he's definitely ESFj!Originally Posted by Kim
*shrugs* fair enoughSee, I read the description of duality and don't see the appeal for myself. It is not that I didn't experience it, it is that I don't feel that it is the type of relationship I am looking for. I prefer someone with my energy level and my way of communicating emotions.And duality isn't about someone taking care of your weaknesses from my point of view... it's more so about somebody appreciating your strengths and you appreciating their strengths.
To add: I can be very silly and I do run cirlces in real life on occasion. But I can also be very professional. I think I read somewhere that that is typical ENFp behavior, but I might be wrong.
For some odd reason I am very comforted by that statement. :wink:Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion